Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

[Guest guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it you who had prejudice against same sex couples a few weeks ago? If guns kill people then pencils cause misspelled words To: autism-aspergers Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:42 PM Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

There was no attack or rant as you say. I simply commented on your attack of Fundamentalist Christians. I don’t know why you are denying it. Seems obvious because now you are attacking me saying horribly prejudice and mean things about me.

So you make my point perfectly.

Guess this could get pretty bad if we keep it up, so let us stop now. You know where I am coming from. I know where you are coming from.

No more needs to be said.

Carolyn

From: Jane

Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:08 AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

No worry heather-

I figure she's going through something painful and needed to attack so

I ignored the rant- hope it was catharsis for her-

I did merely mean it to describe their point of reference- I did after all still call them friends- and friends very loved they are- and we met.....in church-

Had I been talking about Not eating pork- I may have referenced an Islamic friend or seventh day Adventist- or vegan- depending on where their values for not eating pork came from-

Not bashing anybody- just trying to encourage the original poster-

Honestly- she's got something against me- it's not her first attack out of no where- why I keep wanting to exit the group- I have enough to fight for in daily life-

If she paid even a little attention to my posts- shed see my kids names- Hannah- sammuel- Caleb- and if she humbled herself in prayer and listened- she'd know which God I love- but I've long past learned that there are many who come in His name that he knows not-

Move on and don't get sucked into the fight she seeks- she's either really really hurting - or a wolf-

Because there is only one accuser- and it's NOT God-

In love-

Jane

Sent from my iPhone

Did I miss an email? When did she "assault" Fundamentalist Christians? She made one comment "they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism landed in my son" In NO way is she bashing fundamentalist Christians. She is stating that they were Christians and that believed this. It's like she said they had black hair and they believed...

I personally am a strong Christian and I don't have a problem sharing it with other people but I won't force my believes on other people. We are not supposed to discuss this type stuff on this board and I for one am getting a little tired of it. Not because I don't believe what you are saying but because it causes tension on the board. It also detracts from what the original topic was.

I have no idea why God gave me an Autistic child. I know He has His reasons...they are not for me to know. I'd like to hope that some good will come of it. I know that my experiences have helped others and others have helped me. THAT is what this board is for. Helping other and ourselves. Most of the time I don't get into the squabbles on this board. If people say things on this board that I don't like, well that is fine. I can choose to delete their posts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. "Judge not that ye be judge" is what I live by. I feel that people will answer to God when it comes time. It's not for me to judge or try to correct. I also live by 'water off a duck's back' theory.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five roses.

They like your cousin choose to only have "normal" children so this will be their only child.

They have grown up a lot- and frankly- I was a know it all before I had a child.

My advice ? Don't take it personal- keep your distance- pick which battles you want to put your energy into- and try to laugh it off-

But hugs- cuz that crap is painful and frustrating as heck!

My newest topic I ignore? My sons huge weight gain since risperdol!

He's 12. I was "anti" meds - until last fall when his aggression became unbearable following my husbands heart attack. Everyone in my family is vocal about his gain and begging me to stop meds. My answer? So who is going to come and help me when he gets assaultive? Or give me respite?

They shut up quick.

Hugs-Sent from my iPhone

Before I get into that, let me be blunt-I think there are a multitude of environmental issues that probably carry some weight in a portion of children diagnosed with Autism, regardless of where they fall on the Spectrum. Whether it's things like smoking while you're pregnant, getting vaccines, having too much mercury in your blood, etc.I also believe that a portion of children diagnosed with Autism come by it genetically.I also believe that in some cases, leaps and bounds can be made regarding different diets.Also- I do NOT wish for this to turn into a "This is what causes it" debate. I won't participate in that sort of debate, and this has zero to do with the REASONS why people are Autistic.All of that said, here's what my issue is right now.My husband's cousin got married to a guy last summer who is very into "healthy living" in some ways. In other ways, to be blunt, he smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, and does recreational drugs. However, neither of them see those things as unhealthy living. She was the same until she got pregnant- I have no idea if she stopped smoking when she found out she was pregnant, but I know she stopped drinking and doing drugs.They are both the sort of people who will lecture you on their beliefs in the way that they aren't out right telling you that you're wrong, but they're telling you that they are right. Whether it's about buying cheese at a grocery store (they're against buying food at standard grocery stores, as it's 100% processed- even fresh food- their words, not mind), or seeing specific types of doctors, or even going to a hospital.Now that she's pregnant, they're delving into research on Autism, to try and limit the chances of the baby having it. They want a "normal" child (which irked me as well, because we ALL want a neurotypical child, but that doesn't mean our children aren't normal- it just means they're a little different, just as every person in the world is).I finally just blocked them from my feed on Facebook today, because frankly, I can't keep seeing articles popping up into my feed about what causes Autism, and how they're going to avoid it.For instance, in the past week, they've posted Op Ed articles about Autism and the link between the following topics:UltrasoundsProcessed FoodsVaccinesMercuryAntibioticsHow the Amish don't have Autism at all (this goes back to vaccines)What bothers me the most, is that they don't even look up credible articles. They're reading opinion pieces, and calling them fact. In the few articles that even state a source, it goes back to other Opinion pieces that don't credit a source.One article said that 90% of Amish people have never been vaccinated, which proves that Vaccines cause 100% of the Autism cases found in the world today.She sited wikipedia as her source.They have been posting this stuff for weeks now, and today, I finally got peeved off. I have ignored it, ignored it, ignored it. Today, I finally posted to one of their articles, "So, just wondering, since my daughter was 5 before she was ever vaccinated, what reason is there that she has Autism?"He asked me if I was serious in asking, and I said I wanted his honest opinion on the matter as to what I did wrong to make my daughter the way she is.At that point, I posted an update on my own FB page explaining that reading and agreeing with Op Ed pieces does not make you qualified to diagnose Autism, or give causes as to why people have it.I followed it up with remarks as to why it's more highly diagnosed now than it was 20 years ago, and why it was more highly diagnosed 20 years ago than it was 100 years ago. I think all too often, people forget that when you are dealing with any sort of neurological disorder, there have been leaps and bounds made in recognizing, categorizing, and diagnosing them.100 years ago, people did not have an Autism diagnosis. They were diagnosed as mentally retarded, and ran a high chance of being institutionalized for life.20 years ago, Asperger's wasn't recognized as a diagnosis, and was often diagnosed as a variety of problems not on the Spectrum.He did agree with both of those points, then went

[Guest guest]

O M G! Here we go again! :(Sent from my iPhone

I didn’t say she was bashing, only a bit sarcastic comment towards “Fundamentalist Christians.†I don’t think I misinterpreted her intent.

And funny you say you are as “strong Christian.†Have you missed the part where Jesus told us to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature? That is not cramming anything down anybody’s throat. Once they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ they can do,and will do, what they want with it.

Our job as Christians is only to tell them.

I was hoping Jane got the point, was not talking to you.

Carolyn

From: Muehleisen Family

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:07 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Did I miss an email? When did she "assault" Fundamentalist Christians? She made one comment "they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism landed in my son" In NO way is she bashing fundamentalist Christians. She is stating that they were Christians and that believed this. It's like she said they had black hair and they believed...

I personally am a strong Christian and I don't have a problem sharing it with other people but I won't force my believes on other people. We are not supposed to discuss this type stuff on this board and I for one am getting a little tired of it. Not because I don't believe what you are saying but because it causes tension on the board. It also detracts from what the original topic was.

I have no idea why God gave me an Autistic child. I know He has His reasons...they are not for me to know. I'd like to hope that some good will come of it. I know that my experiences have helped others and others have helped me. THAT is what this board is for. Helping other and ourselves. Most of the time I don't get into the squabbles on this board. If people say things on this board that I don't like, well that is fine. I can choose to delete their posts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. "Judge not that ye be judge" is what I live by. I feel that people will answer to God when it comes time. It's not for me to judge or try to correct. I also live by 'water off a duck's back' theory.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five roses.

They like your cousin choose to only have "normal" children so this will be their only child.

They have grown up a lot- and frankly- I was a know it all before I had a child.

My advice ? Don't take it personal- keep your distance- pick which battles you want to put your energy into- and try to laugh it off-

But hugs- cuz that crap is painful and frustrating as heck!

My newest topic I ignore? My sons huge weight gain since risperdol!

He's 12. I was "anti" meds - until last fall when his aggression became unbearable following my husbands heart attack. Everyone in my family is vocal about his gain and begging me to stop meds. My answer? So who is going to come and help me when he gets assaultive? Or give me respite?

They shut up quick.

Hugs-Sent from my iPhone

Before I get into that, let me be blunt-I think there are a multitude of environmental issues that probably carry some weight in a portion of children diagnosed with Autism, regardless of where they fall on the Spectrum. Whether it's things like smoking while you're pregnant, getting vaccines, having too much mercury in your blood, etc.I also believe that a portion of children diagnosed with Autism come by it genetically.I also believe that in some cases, leaps and bounds can be made regarding different diets.Also- I do NOT wish for this to turn into a "This is what causes it" debate. I won't participate in that sort of debate, and this has zero to do with the REASONS why people are Autistic.All of that said, here's what my issue is right now.My husband's cousin got married to a guy last summer who is very into "healthy living" in some ways. In other ways, to be blunt, he smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, and does recreational drugs. However, neither of them see those things as unhealthy living. She was the same until she got pregnant- I have no idea if she stopped smoking when she found out she was pregnant, but I know she stopped drinking and doing drugs.They are both the sort of people who will lecture you on their beliefs in the way that they aren't out right telling you that you're wrong, but they're telling you that they are right. Whether it's about buying cheese at a grocery store (they're against buying food at standard grocery stores, as it's 100% processed- even fresh food- their words, not mind), or seeing specific types of doctors, or even going to a hospital.Now that she's pregnant, they're delving into research on Autism, to try and limit the chances of the baby having it. They want a "normal" child (which irked me as well, because we ALL want a neurotypical child, but that doesn't mean our children aren't normal- it just means they're a little different, just as every person in the world is).I finally just blocked them from my feed on Facebook today, because frankly, I can't keep seeing articles popping up into my feed about what causes Autism, and how they're going to avoid it.For instance, in the past week, they've posted Op Ed articles about Autism and the link between the following topics:UltrasoundsProcessed FoodsVaccinesMercuryAntibioticsHow the Amish don't have Autism at all (this goes back to vaccines)What bothers me the most, is that they don't even look up credible articles. They're reading opinion pieces, and calling them fact. In the few articles that even state a source, it goes back to other Opinion pieces that don't credit a source.One article said that 90% of Amish people have never been vaccinated, which proves that Vaccines cause 100% of the Autism cases found in the world today.She sited wikipedia as her source.They have been posting this stuff for weeks now, and today, I finally got peeved off. I have ignored it, ignored it, ignored it. Today, I finally posted to one of their articles, "So, just wondering, since my daughter was 5 before she was ever vaccinated, what reason is there that she has Autism?"He asked me if I was serious in asking, and I said I wanted his honest opinion on the matter as to what I did wrong to make my daughter the way she is.At that point, I posted an update on my own FB page explaining that reading and agreeing with Op Ed pieces does not make you qualified to diagnose Autism, or give causes as to why people have it.I followed it up with remarks as to why it's more highly diagnosed now than it was 20 years ago, and why it was more highly diagnosed 20 years ago than it was 100 years ago. I think all too often, people forget that when you are dealing with any sort of neurological disorder, there have been leaps and bounds made in recognizing, categorizing, and diagnosing them.100 years ago, people did not have an Autism diagnosis. They were diagnosed as mentally retarded, and ran a high chance of being institutionalized for life.20 years ago, Asperger's wasn't recognized as a diagnosis, and was often diagnosed as a variety of problems not on the Spectrum.He did agree with both of those points, then went back to what I commented on his piece saying that he felt that my question was loaded, given my status update, and the tone of my questions.I followed up with this:Here's the thing, ********. I don't doubt that there are a lot of reasons as to why kids today are diagnosed with Autism. But, it's a hot topic. Parents of autistic children will hotly debate it with other parents of autistic children, because we all have our own opinions, and we all deal with it on a daily basis.I have no issues with you coming up with your own thoughts regarding autism, but posting stuff like this constantly is sort of a slap in the face of parents who have to deal with it daily, who have done their own research, who have doctors behind them, teachers, and psychologists who have all dealt with it over the years.You're going to have people like me who don't feel we need to hear blanket responses from people who are not dealing with it. If you are going to post stuff like this, do more research as to what the overall thoughts are, not just what some people think the causes are.It's disrespectiful to the people who put the time in. I've spent over 2 years reading up on it, discussing it with doctors, discussing it with my childrens support staff, and figuring out what happened.I have long since decided that in our case, it was a genetic issue that we had no control over, as many others have. There are different forms of Autism, and different levels. While some people find a common denominator as to what they think caused their child's Autism, the bottom line is that there is not a single test out there that can pin point a cause.I respect that you want to do what you can to educate others on topics like this, but it really does involve more than reading and agreeing with an article. Any reputable article will have multiple sources, and will be more than a copy of someone elses hard work on the topic. It will give their own sources, not sources to other articles. It will quote actual published studies, and research materials.WHEW.Anyway, the whole thing just bothers me. It's no different than people telling us we just need to discipline our child better when they have a melt down.I have no problem reading or hearing about ideas from people, but when those people have been looking into it for about 3 weeks, and think they know all of the things to avoid, then it becomes a hot mess.

[Guest guest]

It's sad that even thought I don't get Carolyn's e-mails anymore (blocking her has been wonderful) I still get the drama/ outrage from everyone else. She just thrives on drama. I think she needs some attention. Poor thing! To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers > Cc:

"<autism-aspergers >" <autism-aspergers > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

O M G! Here we go again! :(Sent from my iPhone

I didn’t say she was bashing, only a bit sarcastic comment towards “Fundamentalist Christians.†I don’t think I misinterpreted her intent.

And funny you say you are as “strong Christian.†Have you missed the part where Jesus told us to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature? That is not cramming anything down anybody’s throat. Once they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ they can do,and will do, what they want with it.

Our job as Christians is only to tell them.

I was hoping Jane got the point, was not talking to you.

Carolyn

From: Muehleisen Family

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:07 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Did I miss an email? When did she "assault" Fundamentalist Christians? She made one comment "they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism landed in my son" In NO way is she bashing fundamentalist Christians. She is stating that they were Christians and that believed this. It's like she said they had black hair and they believed...

I personally am a strong Christian and I don't have a problem sharing it with other people but I won't force my believes on other people. We are not supposed to discuss this type stuff on this board and I for one am getting a little tired of it. Not because I don't believe what you are saying but because it causes tension on the board. It also detracts from what the original topic was.

I have no idea why God gave me an Autistic child. I know He has His reasons...they are not for me to know. I'd like to hope that some good will come of it. I know that my experiences have helped others and others have helped me. THAT is what this board is for. Helping other and ourselves. Most of the time I don't get into the squabbles on this board. If people say things on this board that I don't like, well that is fine. I can choose to delete their posts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. "Judge not that ye be judge" is what I live by. I feel that people will answer to God when it comes time. It's not for me to judge or try to correct. I also live by 'water off a duck's back' theory.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five roses.

They like your cousin choose to only have "normal" children so this will be their only child.

They have grown up a lot- and frankly- I was a know it all before I had a child.

My advice ? Don't take it personal- keep your distance- pick which battles you want to put your energy into- and try to laugh it off-

But hugs- cuz that crap is painful and frustrating as heck!

My newest topic I ignore? My sons huge weight gain since risperdol!

He's 12. I was "anti" meds - until last fall when his aggression became unbearable following my husbands heart attack. Everyone in my family is vocal about his gain and begging me to stop meds. My answer? So who is going to come and help me when he gets assaultive? Or give me respite?

They shut up quick.

Hugs-Sent from my iPhone

Before I get into that, let me be blunt-I think there are a multitude of environmental issues that probably carry some weight in a portion of children diagnosed with Autism, regardless of where they fall on the Spectrum. Whether it's things like smoking while you're pregnant, getting vaccines, having too much mercury in your blood, etc.I also believe that a portion of children diagnosed with Autism come by it genetically.I also believe that in some cases, leaps and bounds can be made regarding different diets.Also- I do NOT wish for this to turn into a "This is what causes it" debate. I won't participate in that sort of debate, and this has zero to do with the REASONS why people are Autistic.All of that said, here's what my issue is right now.My husband's cousin got married to a guy last summer who is very into "healthy living" in some ways. In other ways, to be blunt, he smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, and does recreational drugs. However, neither of them see those things as unhealthy living. She was the same until she got pregnant- I have no idea if she stopped smoking when she found out she was pregnant, but I know she stopped drinking and doing drugs.They are both the sort of people who will lecture you on their beliefs in the way that they aren't out right telling you that you're wrong, but they're telling you that they are right. Whether it's about buying cheese at a grocery store (they're against buying food at standard grocery stores, as it's 100% processed- even fresh food- their words, not mind), or seeing specific types of doctors, or even going to a hospital.Now that she's pregnant, they're delving into research on Autism, to try and limit the chances of the baby having it. They want a "normal" child (which irked me as well, because we ALL want a neurotypical child, but that doesn't mean our children aren't normal- it just means they're a little different, just as every person in the world is).I finally just blocked them from my feed on Facebook today, because frankly, I can't keep seeing articles popping up into my feed about what causes Autism, and how they're going to avoid it.For instance, in the past week, they've posted Op Ed articles about Autism and the link between the following topics:UltrasoundsProcessed FoodsVaccinesMercuryAntibioticsHow the Amish don't have Autism at all (this goes back to vaccines)What bothers me the most, is that they don't even look up credible articles. They're reading opinion pieces, and calling them fact. In the few articles that even state a source, it goes back to other Opinion pieces that don't credit a source.One article said that 90% of Amish people have never been vaccinated, which proves that Vaccines cause 100% of the Autism cases found in the world today.She sited wikipedia as her source.They have been posting this stuff for weeks now, and today, I finally got peeved off. I have ignored it, ignored it, ignored it. Today, I finally posted to one of their articles, "So, just wondering, since my daughter was 5 before she was ever vaccinated, what reason is there that she has Autism?"He asked me if I was serious in asking, and I said I wanted his honest opinion on the matter as to what I did wrong to make my daughter the way she is.At that point, I posted an update on my own FB page explaining that reading and agreeing with Op Ed pieces does not make you qualified to diagnose Autism, or give causes as to why people have it.I followed it up with remarks as to why it's more highly diagnosed now than it was 20 years ago, and why it was more highly diagnosed 20 years ago than it was 100 years ago. I think all too often, people forget that when you are dealing with any sort of neurological disorder, there have been leaps and bounds made in recognizing, categorizing, and diagnosing them.100 years ago, people did not have an Autism diagnosis. They were diagnosed as mentally retarded, and ran a high chance of being institutionalized for life.20 years ago, Asperger's wasn't recognized as a diagnosis, and was often diagnosed as a variety of problems not on the Spectrum.He did agree with both of those points, then went back to what I commented on his piece saying that he felt that my question was loaded, given my status update, and the tone of my questions.I followed up with this:Here's the thing, ********. I don't doubt that there are a lot of reasons as to why kids today are diagnosed with Autism. But, it's a hot topic. Parents of autistic children will hotly debate it with other parents of autistic children, because we all have our own opinions, and we all deal with it on a daily basis.I have no issues with you coming up with your own thoughts regarding autism, but posting stuff like this constantly is sort of a slap in the face of parents who have to deal with it daily, who have done their own research, who have doctors behind them, teachers, and psychologists who have all dealt with it over the years.You're going to have people like me who don't feel we need to hear blanket responses from people who are not dealing with it. If you are going to post stuff like this, do more research as to what the overall thoughts are, not just what some people think the causes are.It's disrespectiful to the people who put the time in. I've spent over 2 years reading up on it, discussing it with doctors, discussing it with my childrens support staff, and figuring out what happened.I have long since decided that in our case, it was a genetic issue that we had no control over, as many others have. There are different forms of Autism, and different levels. While some people find a common denominator as to what they think caused their child's Autism, the bottom line is that there is not a single test out there that can pin point a cause.I respect that you want to do what you can to educate others on topics like this, but it really does involve more than reading and agreeing with an article. Any reputable article will have multiple sources, and will be more than a copy of someone elses hard work on the topic. It will give their own sources, not sources to other articles. It will quote actual published studies, and research materials.WHEW.Anyway, the whole thing just bothers me. It's no different than people telling us we just need to discipline our child better when they have a melt down.I have no problem reading or hearing about ideas from people, but when those people have been looking into it for about 3 weeks, and think they know all of the things to avoid, then it becomes a hot mess.

[Guest guest]

Tell me how to block? I just wanted to give the original writer support- I need this attack like I need a hole in my head- life isn't supposed to be this hard- Sent from my iPhone

It's sad that even thought I don't get Carolyn's e-mails anymore (blocking her has been wonderful) I still get the drama/ outrage from everyone else. She just thrives on drama. I think she needs some attention. Poor thing! To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers > Cc:

"<autism-aspergers >" <autism-aspergers > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

O M G! Here we go again! :(Sent from my iPhone

I didn’t say she was bashing, only a bit sarcastic comment towards “Fundamentalist Christians.†I don’t think I misinterpreted her intent.

And funny you say you are as “strong Christian.†Have you missed the part where Jesus told us to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature? That is not cramming anything down anybody’s throat. Once they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ they can do,and will do, what they want with it.

Our job as Christians is only to tell them.

I was hoping Jane got the point, was not talking to you.

Carolyn

From: Muehleisen Family

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:07 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Did I miss an email? When did she "assault" Fundamentalist Christians? She made one comment "they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism landed in my son" In NO way is she bashing fundamentalist Christians. She is stating that they were Christians and that believed this. It's like she said they had black hair and they believed...

I personally am a strong Christian and I don't have a problem sharing it with other people but I won't force my believes on other people. We are not supposed to discuss this type stuff on this board and I for one am getting a little tired of it. Not because I don't believe what you are saying but because it causes tension on the board. It also detracts from what the original topic was.

I have no idea why God gave me an Autistic child. I know He has His reasons...they are not for me to know. I'd like to hope that some good will come of it. I know that my experiences have helped others and others have helped me. THAT is what this board is for. Helping other and ourselves. Most of the time I don't get into the squabbles on this board. If people say things on this board that I don't like, well that is fine. I can choose to delete their posts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. "Judge not that ye be judge" is what I live by. I feel that people will answer to God when it comes time. It's not for me to judge or try to correct. I also live by 'water off a duck's back' theory.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep

[Guest guest]

Yep, I understand totally. I knew exactly what you were trying to say. After the last set of rants (which I refused to get involved with), I just had to say what was on my mind. I knew it wouldn't do any good when I sent it...but I felt like I had to.

I won't dignify her responses with a response (especially the part where she bashed my faith)...well except one. If anyone on this board wants to talk only to one other person then they should email them privately. If not, our emails are to everyone in the group.

Please don't leave the group because of stupid, irrelevant rants. I've personally found some of your posts interesting. Of course, I'd be lying if I said I didn't have the same thought. I hate all the tension on this board. I have enough tension at home dealing with my children and family.

I love your children's names!!! My son is . He is named after in the bible.

  Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you;

Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.

One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five roses.

They like your cousin choose to only have "normal" children so this will be their only child.

They have grown up a lot- and frankly- I was a know it all before I had a child.

My advice ? Don't take it personal- keep your distance- pick which battles you want to put your energy into- and try to laugh it off-

But hugs- cuz that crap is painful and frustrating as heck!

My newest topic I ignore? My sons huge weight gain since risperdol!

He's 12. I was "anti" meds - until last fall when his aggression became unbearable following my husbands heart attack. Everyone in my family is vocal about his gain and begging me to stop meds. My answer? So who is going to come and help me when he gets assaultive? Or give me respite?

They shut up quick.

Hugs-Sent from my iPhone

Before I get into that, let me be blunt-I think there are a multitude of environmental issues that probably carry some weight in a portion of children diagnosed with Autism, regardless of where they fall on the Spectrum. Whether it's things like smoking while you're pregnant, getting vaccines, having too much mercury in your blood, etc.I also believe that a portion of children diagnosed with Autism come by it genetically.I also believe that in some cases, leaps and bounds can be made regarding different diets.Also- I do NOT wish for this to turn into a "This is what causes it" debate. I won't participate in that sort of debate, and this has zero to do with the REASONS why people are Autistic.All of that said, here's what my issue is right now.My husband's cousin got married to a guy last summer who is very into "healthy living" in some ways. In other ways, to be blunt, he smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, and does recreational drugs. However, neither of them see those things as unhealthy living. She was the same until she got pregnant- I have no idea if she stopped smoking when she found out she was pregnant, but I know she stopped drinking and doing drugs.They are both the sort of people who will lecture you on their beliefs in the way that they aren't out right telling you that you're wrong, but they're telling you that they are right. Whether it's about buying cheese at a grocery store (they're against buying food at standard grocery stores, as it's 100% processed- even fresh food- their words, not mind), or seeing specific types of doctors, or even going to a hospital.Now that she's pregnant, they're delving into research on Autism, to try and limit the chances of the baby having it. They want a "normal" child (which irked me as well, because we ALL want a neurotypical child, but that doesn't mean our children aren't normal- it just means they're a little different, just as every person in the world is).I finally just blocked them from my feed on Facebook today, because frankly, I can't keep seeing articles popping up into my feed about what causes Autism, and how they're going to avoid it.For instance, in the past week, they've posted Op Ed articles about Autism and the link between the following topics:UltrasoundsProcessed FoodsVaccinesMercuryAntibioticsHow the Amish don't have Autism at all (this goes back to vaccines)What bothers me the most, is that they don't even look up credible articles. They're reading opinion pieces, and calling them fact. In the few articles that even state a source, it goes back to other Opinion pieces that don't credit a source.One article said that 90% of Amish people have never been vaccinated, which proves that Vaccines cause 100% of the Autism cases found in the world today.She sited wikipedia as her source.They have been posting this stuff for weeks now, and today, I finally got peeved off. I have ignored it, ignored it, ignored it. Today, I finally posted to one of their articles, "So, just wondering, since my daughter was 5 before she was ever vaccinated, what reason is there that she has Autism?"He asked me if I was serious in asking, and I said I wanted his honest opinion on the matter as to what I did wrong to make my daughter the way she is.At that point, I posted an update on my own FB page explaining that reading and agreeing with Op Ed pieces does not make you qualified to diagnose Autism, or give causes as to why people have it.I followed it up with remarks as to why it's more highly diagnosed now than it was 20 years ago, and why it was more highly diagnosed 20 years ago than it was 100 years ago. I think all too often, people forget that when you are dealing with any sort of neurological disorder, there have been leaps and bounds made in recognizing, categorizing, and diagnosing them.100 years ago, people did not have an Autism diagnosis. They were diagnosed as mentally retarded, and ran a high chance of being institutionalized for life.20 years ago, Asperger's wasn't recognized as a diagnosis, and was often diagnosed as a variety of problems not on the Spectrum.He did agree with both of those points, then went

[Guest guest]

Yes, there is. His name is . I think he works odd hours though.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five ro

[Guest guest]

All everybody has to do is be quiet now.

That is what will tell us to do. This is not the first time this has happened here. People just have different beliefs, and some can get really mean at you if you don’t agree with them and call you names and say you are ranting at them.

They accuse you of what they do. Is how this conversation began.

Carolyn

From: Muehleisen Family

Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:54 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Yes, there is. His name is . I think he works odd hours though.

-- Re: Debating Causes with People who have never dealt with Autism

Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

Life has a way of equalizing people!

When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went researching it medically we "spoke" tht over him- they were fundamental Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse of autism

Landed in my son lol!

They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five ro

[Guest guest]

No, just lives on the other side of the world   If the group owner

ever shows up again, we really need a couple more moderators.  Until

then, we will just have to try to behave like adults, and I will

have to keep putting people who don't on moderation.

[moderator]

 

Yes, there is. His name is . I think

he works odd hours though. 

 

 

 

--

Re:

Debating

Causes with

People who

have never

dealt with

Autism

 

 

Wow- this

is your

family? So

sorry.

 

Try to

remember that

they don't

have children

yet-

Before I

had children-

I knew it all!

How to parent-

from a to Z!

 

Life has

a way of

equalizing

people!

 

When my

son was

younger-

friends

invited me

camping-

When I

held my 3 year

old who had no

sense of

danger-

My

friends wife

brought him a

paper and

crayon and

screamed at me

that all I had

to do was keep

him busy! My

son was very

delayed and

later

diagnosed as

dysgraphia! I

was livid! If

it was so

freaking easy

as paper Nd

crayons! Same

couple later

told me my son

had autism

because when

we went

researching it

medically we

"spoke" tht

over him- 

they were

fundamental

Christians who

really

believed that

when I allowed

my son to be

diagnosed- in

that moment -

the curse of

autism

Landed in

my son lol!

 

They've

since had a

daughter-

diagnoses with

sixty five ro

 

No virus

found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5022 - Release Date:

05/25/12

[Guest guest]

Carolyn is now back on moderation.  I enjoy her posts when she stays

away from preaching her religious beliefs, but this is not the place

for preaching any religious beliefs.  I am a Christian myself, but

no Biblical [or Qur'anic, or any other sacred scriptural)

commandment to share beliefs takes precedence over list rules.  If

you can't live with that, this is not the group for you.  I think

that it has been made very clear that there is to be no preaching of

religious (or political) beliefs.  It doesn't matter if the poster

believes they should/must say something or not - anyone who preaches

is placed on moderation, and no preaching messages will be

approved.  If it is only a sentence or two, I will delete it and

post the rest, if it is all or most of the post, I will simply

reject it.  Please remember that I am not here 24/7, so it can take

a few hours before I get to take any action.  Until then, please

just ignore the post, or respond privately. 

Moderation follows posting a preaching email, whether or not it gets

a response or causes debate.  If you think someone has been

derogatory about your religion, send me an email and I will deal

with it.  The initial email did not do that.  It simply stated that

a couple believed something because they are fundamenalist

Christians. 

[moderator]

 

Tell me how to block? I just wanted to give the

original writer support- I need this attack like I need a

hole in my head- life isn't supposed to be this hard- 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2012, at 4:42 PM, " R. Tucker"

wrote:

 

It's sad that even thought I don't get

Carolyn's e-mails anymore (blocking her has been

wonderful) I still get the drama/ outrage from

everyone else.    She just thrives on drama. 

I think she needs some attention.  Poor thing!

 

From:

Lori Yurtin

To:

"autism-aspergers "

<autism-aspergers >

Cc:

"<autism-aspergers >"

<autism-aspergers >

Sent:

Friday, May 25, 2012 4:19 PM

Subject:

Re: Debating Causes with

People who have never dealt with Autism

 

O M G!  Here we go again!  

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2012, at 11:49 AM, "Carolyn"

wrote:

 

I didn’t say

she was bashing, only a bit

sarcastic comment towards

“Fundamentalist Christians.â€

I don’t think I

misinterpreted her intent.

 

And funny

you say you are as “strong

Christian.†Have you missed

the part where Jesus told us

to go out into all the world

and preach the Gospel to

every creature? That is not

cramming anything down

anybody’s throat. Once they

hear the Gospel of Jesus

Christ they can do,and will

do,  what they want with it.

 

Our job as

Christians is only to tell

them.

 

I was hoping

Jane got the point, was not

talking to you.

 

Carolyn 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am not going to stop this discussion, but please reply only to the

original topic and not to the side-issue of religion.

Thank you

[moderator]

[Guest guest]

Carolyn

You cannot have your say and then tell everyone to be quiet.  This

conversation began because you took exception to something you read

into someone's post.  There was, and is, no need for a comment.

[moderator]

 

All everybody has to do is be quiet

now.

 

That is what will tell us to

do. This is not the first time this has happened

here. People just have different beliefs, and some

can get really mean at you if you don’t agree with

them and call you names and say you are ranting at

them.

 

They accuse you of what they do. Is

how this conversation began.

 

Carolyn

 

 

From: Muehleisen

Family

Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:54 PM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Debating Causes with People who have never dealt

with Autism

 

 

Yes, there is. His name is .

I think he works odd hours though.

 

 

 

--

Re:

Debating

Causes with

People who

have never

dealt with

Autism

 

 

Wow- this

is your

family? So

sorry.

 

Try to

remember that

they don't

have children

yet-

Before I

had children-

I knew it all!

How to parent-

from a to Z!

 

Life has

a way of

equalizing

people!

 

When my

son was

younger-

friends

invited me

camping-

When I

held my 3 year

old who had no

sense of

danger-

My

friends wife

brought him a

paper and

crayon and

screamed at me

that all I had

to do was keep

him busy! My

son was very

delayed and

later

diagnosed as

dysgraphia! I

was livid! If

it was so

freaking easy

as paper Nd

crayons! Same

couple later

told me my son

had autism

because when

we went

researching it

medically we

"spoke" tht

over him- 

they were

fundamental

Christians who

really

believed that

when I allowed

my son to be

diagnosed- in

that moment -

the curse of

autism

Landed in

my son lol!

 

They've

since had a

daughter-

diagnoses with

sixty five ro

 

No virus

found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5022 - Release Date:

05/25/12

[Guest guest]

Rather than being quiet with a last word of what other people are or are not

doing, how about if we simply respect each person, recognize that it is

exhausting, frustrating, painful, fearful, joyful, happy, exciting and any other

emotion or state we might want to list, to have children and/or other family

members on the spectrum.

All of this discussion is a " first world " problem. While it is painful, etc., at

least our children or family members are not dealing with the real third world

issues of the majority of the world. Can you imagine being on the spectrum in a

third world nation?

I am grateful for this group because most of you KNOW what life is like for

family with autism. I think we should agree to not have religious discussions

because we may have varied beliefs.

Meanwhile, support and compassion might be our watchwords.

Priscilla

>

>

>

> Did I miss an email? When did she " assault " Fundamentalist

Christians? She made one comment " they were fundamental Christians who really

believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in that moment - the curse

of autism landed in my son " In NO way is she bashing fundamentalist Christians.

She is stating that they were Christians and that believed this. It's like she

said they had black hair and they believed...

>

> I personally am a strong Christian and I don't have a problem

sharing it with other people but I won't force my believes on other people. We

are not supposed to discuss this type stuff on this board and I for one am

getting a little tired of it. Not because I don't believe what you are saying

but because it causes tension on the board. It also detracts from what the

original topic was.

>

> I have no idea why God gave me an Autistic child. I know He has

His reasons...they are not for me to know. I'd like to hope that some good will

come of it. I know that my experiences have helped others and others have helped

me. THAT is what this board is for. Helping other and ourselves. Most of the

time I don't get into the squabbles on this board. If people say things on this

board that I don't like, well that is fine. I can choose to delete their posts.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. " Judge not that ye be judge " is what I

live by. I feel that people will answer to God when it comes time. It's not for

me to judge or try to correct. I also live by 'water off a duck's back' theory.

>

>

>

> -- Re: Debating Causes with People who

have never dealt with Autism

>

>

> Wow- this is your family? So sorry.

>

> Try to remember that they don't have children yet-

> Before I had children- I knew it all! How to parent- from a to Z!

>

> Life has a way of equalizing people!

>

> When my son was younger- friends invited me camping-

> When I held my 3 year old who had no sense of danger-

> My friends wife brought him a paper and crayon and screamed at me

that all I had to do was keep him busy! My son was very delayed and later

diagnosed as dysgraphia! I was livid! If it was so freaking easy as paper Nd

crayons! Same couple later told me my son had autism because when we went

researching it medically we " spoke " tht over him- they were fundamental

Christians who really believed that when I allowed my son to be diagnosed- in

that moment - the curse of autism

> Landed in my son lol!

>

> They've since had a daughter- diagnoses with sixty five ro

>