Re: Why do we feel the need to...sylvia

[Guest guest]

I think it is the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People that says -

Seeks first to understand - and then to be understood.

So often that is hard to do. As soon as someone says something we

don't agree with - we want to stop listening to them - and start

pushing our own side.

I have found though - that when I DO (I don't always) seek to

understand the other person first - I often find they have some very

valid things to say - and they even express what they have to say

better because I am listening to them.

Sometimes I don't even feel the need to express MY " side. " Other

times I can express myself in a more assertive, and less aggressive,

way. And often they are more open to listening to me because I

listened to them.

Yet I even found this technique works well even when you have to play

hard ball. Because in seeking to understand them - you also kind of

firm up their position. One of the hardest things for me to handle in

an arguement is people back paddling - shifting their arguement

around - saying they didn't say what they said. Kind of like a dance

where they keep moving around and stepping on your foot from

different directions.

When they have had their FULL say first - it is harder for them to do

that to you.

But other times - this technique helps you relaize the other person

doesn't really have a position - they are just launching random

attacks which don't hold up to logic. When you seek to understand

their position - and they don't have one - they usually either drop

the attack (usually by just changing the subject) or start fumbling

around giving disjointed - nonsensical reasons.

I would think many nada attacks fall in the second category. But yes,

I can still see how this technique could be helpful - even with them.

For one thing - we often take what they say to heart and react as if

it were true. Realizing they don't really have a position can help us

see the silliness of the whole thing and so we don't take it to

heart.

It is hard (for everyone but nadas) to continue attacking someone who

is honestly and sincerely seeking to understand them. Yet - sometimes

this technique might frustrate and anger nadas further and drive them

further into their disjointed position.

I think the PUVAs and the DEAR techniques are probably designed

better for nadas... because they address the emotional aspect of the

BP better. I think they are in SWOE (my copy is in the mail and on

its way). There are also some websites that explain these techniques.

Free

> > In one of my classes in Grad school we learned a bit about the

> > book " The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense " by Suzette Haden

> Elgin.

> > The part I remember the most (except for when *I* am feeling

> > attacked - then I forget it) is that when you feel you are being

> > attacked:

> > 1. Don't counter-attack

> > 2. Don't get pushed into defending yourself

> > 3. Stand in your own integrity.

> >

> > I don't have the book anymore - but she had all kinds of neat

ideas

> > for handling attacks gracefully...

> >

> > The one I remember most is the one where instead of defending

> > yourself (which actually often spurs even more attacks - or more

> > viscious ones) is to put it back on the attacker to defend THEIR

> > attack. Ask for more specific information. Ask for

clarification...

> > etc.

> >

> > Sometimes they will drop the attack. But something to also keep

in

> > mind is that often the person doing the attacking DOES have

> something

> > somewhat valid to say.. they are just saying it in an unhealthy

> way.

> > And putting it back on them - in a graceful way - can often help

> > guide them to discuss whatever issue they have with you in a more

> > honest and constructive way.

> >

> > Yes. Sometimes the attack may escalate. Yet it usually will if

you

> > counter attack or defend yourself.

> >

> > And sometimes they realize their attack has no merit - and drop

it.

> >

> > And sometimes it helps lead to more honest, healthy communication

> > between you.

> >

> > This works with real people. Not sure if you should try it on

nada

> > (but the book probably has ideas that will work with nadas too).

> >

> > Free

[Guest guest]

no offense, but if 7 habits states that, then they swiped it from

the prayer of st.francis written some 700 years ago-fav

prayer....'seek not so much to be understood as to understand.'

> > > In one of my classes in Grad school we learned a bit about the

> > > book " The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense " by Suzette Haden

> > Elgin.

> > > The part I remember the most (except for when *I* am feeling

> > > attacked - then I forget it) is that when you feel you are

being

> > > attacked:

> > > 1. Don't counter-attack

> > > 2. Don't get pushed into defending yourself

> > > 3. Stand in your own integrity.

> > >

> > > I don't have the book anymore - but she had all kinds of neat

> ideas

> > > for handling attacks gracefully...

> > >

> > > The one I remember most is the one where instead of defending

> > > yourself (which actually often spurs even more attacks - or

more

> > > viscious ones) is to put it back on the attacker to defend

THEIR

> > > attack. Ask for more specific information. Ask for

> clarification...

> > > etc.

> > >

> > > Sometimes they will drop the attack. But something to also

keep

> in

> > > mind is that often the person doing the attacking DOES have

> > something

> > > somewhat valid to say.. they are just saying it in an

unhealthy

> > way.

> > > And putting it back on them - in a graceful way - can often

help

> > > guide them to discuss whatever issue they have with you in a

more

> > > honest and constructive way.

> > >

> > > Yes. Sometimes the attack may escalate. Yet it usually will if

> you

> > > counter attack or defend yourself.

> > >

> > > And sometimes they realize their attack has no merit - and

drop

> it.

> > >

> > > And sometimes it helps lead to more honest, healthy

communication

> > > between you.

> > >

> > > This works with real people. Not sure if you should try it on

> nada

> > > (but the book probably has ideas that will work with nadas

too).

> > >

> > > Free

[Guest guest]

I haven't read '7 Habits...' in many years. But from the tone of the

author, I think he probably would have given credit to St. Francis if

he were aware of the prayer. (I'm going to check it out when I find

out where the book is!) Also, some of these themes can be common in

various religions and philosophies. It's a great idea, and it makes

sense that many people refer to it.

Sylvia

> > I think it is the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People that says -

> > Seeks first to understand - and then to be understood.