Marla re deprivation addiction

[Guest guest]

> Nicky, can you clarify deprivation addiction?

>

>

Hi dear Marla,

Carnes' book, The Betrayal bond describes it in a whole

chapter. I don't know if I can do the subject justice but I'll try.

Ok, let's see if I can define this simply.

1. when any action is done in life there are neurochemicals that are

created in the mind-body, before, during and after the action.

2. having been trained as a KO to be familiar with not being rewarded

in loving ways by a nada or fada the KO grows up to seek out

experiences that replicate the familiar reward-deficiencies of

childhood.

3. there are neurochemicals connected with this negative experience

of not-being-rewarded thing and they can become like being addicted

to any chemical or drug. Maybe it has some aspects to it of self-

abuse but on a neurochemical-social-emotional level?

Example:

I know I need to buy a new pair of shoes. I look all over in

different stores and finally find shoes I really like. I go up to the

shoes I like and then don't buy them and feel deprived after and self-

hatred because I'm not doing something I need to do and can do.

It becomes an habitual cycle when I want to buy something that either

pleases me or I need. It becomes a sort of deprivation addiction.

This can happen with not cleaning my aparment, not going to the

dentist, not going to music concerts I love when I can afford it, not

using a gift certificate somebody gave me for my birthday. In lots of

ways.

I think it can happen in relationships too, not speaking up honestly

about my feelings, then resenting it.

So that's how I think of it.

Hope that helps. I recommend Carnes' book. It was life-

changing and healing for me as a KO.

love,

Nicky

[Guest guest]

Wow, yes!

I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was born

during the Great Depression.

My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

and health and medical attention because those just we're

important to our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive

fur coats & etc and sent the rest to the church.

My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.

Thank you Nicky for this post.

- Edith

nickyskye wrote:

>

>

>>Nicky, can you clarify deprivation addiction?

>

> Hi dear Marla,

> Carnes' book, The Betrayal bond describes it in a whole

> chapter. I don't know if I can do the subject justice but I'll try.

>

> Ok, let's see if I can define this simply.

>

> 1. when any action is done in life there are neurochemicals that are

> created in the mind-body, before, during and after the action.

>

> 2. having been trained as a KO to be familiar with not being rewarded

> in loving ways by a nada or fada the KO grows up to seek out

> experiences that replicate the familiar reward-deficiencies of

> childhood.

>

> 3. there are neurochemicals connected with this negative experience

> of not-being-rewarded thing and they can become like being addicted

> to any chemical or drug. Maybe it has some aspects to it of self-

> abuse but on a neurochemical-social-emotional level?

>

> Example:

> I know I need to buy a new pair of shoes. I look all over in

> different stores and finally find shoes I really like. I go up to the

> shoes I like and then don't buy them and feel deprived after and self-

> hatred because I'm not doing something I need to do and can do.

>

> It becomes an habitual cycle when I want to buy something that either

> pleases me or I need. It becomes a sort of deprivation addiction.

>

> This can happen with not cleaning my aparment, not going to the

> dentist, not going to music concerts I love when I can afford it, not

> using a gift certificate somebody gave me for my birthday. In lots of

> ways.

>

> I think it can happen in relationships too, not speaking up honestly

> about my feelings, then resenting it.

>

> So that's how I think of it.

>

> Hope that helps. I recommend Carnes' book. It was life-

> changing and healing for me as a KO.

> love,

> Nicky

[Guest guest]

This was interesting to me too. It seemed like my " need " to deprive

myself came from some underlying feeing that there isn't enough -

that you better hang on to what you have (even if you don't need it

NOW) - and if you get one thing that means you might not be able to

get something you need later...

Yet - the " deprivation addiction " seems to be more a chemical process

in the brain (or at least that is how I understood it) - where we

actually do that in order to release some chemical in our brain that

we are " addicted " to.

Does this mean it has nothing to do with the beliefs? OR are they all

mixed in together?

Free

> >

> >>Nicky, can you clarify deprivation addiction?

> >

> > Hi dear Marla,

> > Carnes' book, The Betrayal bond describes it in a whole

> > chapter. I don't know if I can do the subject justice but I'll

try.

> >

> > Ok, let's see if I can define this simply.

> >

> > 1. when any action is done in life there are neurochemicals that

are

> > created in the mind-body, before, during and after the action.

> >

> > 2. having been trained as a KO to be familiar with not being

rewarded

> > in loving ways by a nada or fada the KO grows up to seek out

> > experiences that replicate the familiar reward-deficiencies of

> > childhood.

> >

> > 3. there are neurochemicals connected with this negative

experience

> > of not-being-rewarded thing and they can become like being

addicted

> > to any chemical or drug. Maybe it has some aspects to it of self-

> > abuse but on a neurochemical-social-emotional level?

> >

> > Example:

> > I know I need to buy a new pair of shoes. I look all over in

> > different stores and finally find shoes I really like. I go up to

the

> > shoes I like and then don't buy them and feel deprived after and

self-

> > hatred because I'm not doing something I need to do and can do.

> >

> > It becomes an habitual cycle when I want to buy something that

either

> > pleases me or I need. It becomes a sort of deprivation addiction.

> >

> > This can happen with not cleaning my aparment, not going to the

> > dentist, not going to music concerts I love when I can afford it,

not

> > using a gift certificate somebody gave me for my birthday. In

lots of

> > ways.

> >

> > I think it can happen in relationships too, not speaking up

honestly

> > about my feelings, then resenting it.

> >

> > So that's how I think of it.

> >

> > Hope that helps. I recommend Carnes' book. It was life-

> > changing and healing for me as a KO.

> > love,

> > Nicky

[Guest guest]

> Wow, yes!

>

> I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

> life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was born

> during the Great Depression.<<

>

My nada said the same thing. She used to go an hour out of the way to

save 10 cents on a can of tunafish, claiming it was a left-over from

the Depression thing. She used to tell me if I'd of lived through the

Depression then I'd of understood about poverty. I used to believe

that crap. I understand the (sometimes extreme) thrift ppl exhibit

who've endured poverty. nada just couldn't deal with managing money,

plain & simple.

>>My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

and health and medical attention because those just we're important to

our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive fur coats & etc and

sent the rest to the church.<<

geez -- nadas with or w/o money do the same damage. After father died,

clueless nada became more profoundly clueless. She didn't get the

connection --- if you don't put more than $20 in the oil burner,

you're going to run out of oil every other day (NY winters were

cold--inside our house was often colder than outdoors). She wouldn't

have bought a fur coat if her life depended on it.

>

>>My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.<<

Yeah we all wore stuff from the Salvation Army. It's weird bcs I

remember not minding -- better than nothing. In her " Eulogy " (written

by all good older bro) we kids are described as somewhat scorning

about wearing 2nd hand clothes, which isn't true. I live in thrift

shop central -- I have clothes ppl think I paid thousands for -- from

thrift shops. effin nadas.

>

> Thank you Nicky for this post.

>

> - Edith

[Guest guest]

Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School sent home a

note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me to the eye

doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of $42. 36 years

later

I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and me for years

about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost of things and

overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple of years ago

she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony. Thanks for

letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still read the lists

for

therapy.

Debbie S.

In a message dated 4/1/2004 2:20:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

psyprof@... writes:

> My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.

>

> Thank you Nicky for this post.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School sent home a

note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me to the eye

doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of $42. 36 years

later

I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and me for years

about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost of things and

overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple of years ago

she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony. Thanks for

letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still read the lists

for

therapy.

Debbie S.

In a message dated 4/1/2004 2:20:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

psyprof@... writes:

> My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.

>

> Thank you Nicky for this post.

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL at the tunafish.

My mother bought mayonaise on sale and MAILED it to my sister in

Oklahoma. I tried to explain that she wasn't saving any money, but...

My mother is strange about money though. She splurges a lot - but

saves money in odd ways. Like they have a " yard sale " on the local

radio station. They offer things like 1 pizza per month for so many

months at a restaurant. My mother will get a " deal " by bidding $48

for $55 retail pizza - and then they end up having to eat pizza more

than they want - and she gives a lot of the certificates away because

she can't use them all.

I'm not sure where my feeling of " lack " came from.

I was just thinking today about how much of a luxury it is to " soak "

in a bathtub. When I was young - water was a big deal (might run the

well dry or something) So we would get like 1 INCH of water in the

tub sometimes - and we had to take turns using it. According to my

mother in later years - she always had me go LAST because if she let

me get in the water when it was warm, I would take too long (and thus

rob my sisters of warm water). So somehow I got stuck with the cold

one inch of water so I wouldn't deprive others of the joy of warm

water I guess.

I guess getting an inch of cold used water for a bath could sure set

up a belief in me that there is not enough to go around...

I also remember having 1/2 stick of chewing gum. I remember feeling

very grown up when I was " old enough " (I made that the connection) to

get a whole stick to myself.

Yet hand-me-downs were magical to me. I remember when my oldest

sister got a new lavander dress with a see through lavander jacket -

with little daisies around the buttons.

She made a big deal out of it that it would be MINE ne day. I was so

excited to see the beautiful dress that would be MINE one day (AFTER

it went through my middle sister, of course). I thank my oldest

sister for that - for making that dress so magical. Of course, by the

time I got it - the little daisies around the buttons were all curled

up and faded - but it didn't matter to me at all. I wore it proudly -

like it was a queen's cape or something. It never did lose it's magic

to me.

Free

> > Wow, yes!

> >

> > I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

> > life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was born

> > during the Great Depression.<<

> >

> My nada said the same thing. She used to go an hour out of the way

to

> save 10 cents on a can of tunafish, claiming it was a left-over from

> the Depression thing. She used to tell me if I'd of lived through

the

> Depression then I'd of understood about poverty. I used to believe

> that crap. I understand the (sometimes extreme) thrift ppl exhibit

> who've endured poverty. nada just couldn't deal with managing money,

> plain & simple.

>

> >>My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

> and health and medical attention because those just we're important

to

> our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive fur coats & etc

and

> sent the rest to the church.<<

>

> geez -- nadas with or w/o money do the same damage. After father

died,

> clueless nada became more profoundly clueless. She didn't get the

> connection --- if you don't put more than $20 in the oil burner,

> you're going to run out of oil every other day (NY winters were

> cold--inside our house was often colder than outdoors). She wouldn't

> have bought a fur coat if her life depended on it.

> >

> >>My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.<<

>

> Yeah we all wore stuff from the Salvation Army. It's weird bcs I

> remember not minding -- better than nothing. In her " Eulogy "

(written

> by all good older bro) we kids are described as somewhat scorning

> about wearing 2nd hand clothes, which isn't true. I live in thrift

> shop central -- I have clothes ppl think I paid thousands for --

from

> thrift shops. effin nadas.

>

>

> >

> > Thank you Nicky for this post.

> >

> > - Edith

[Guest guest]

LOL at the tunafish.

My mother bought mayonaise on sale and MAILED it to my sister in

Oklahoma. I tried to explain that she wasn't saving any money, but...

My mother is strange about money though. She splurges a lot - but

saves money in odd ways. Like they have a " yard sale " on the local

radio station. They offer things like 1 pizza per month for so many

months at a restaurant. My mother will get a " deal " by bidding $48

for $55 retail pizza - and then they end up having to eat pizza more

than they want - and she gives a lot of the certificates away because

she can't use them all.

I'm not sure where my feeling of " lack " came from.

I was just thinking today about how much of a luxury it is to " soak "

in a bathtub. When I was young - water was a big deal (might run the

well dry or something) So we would get like 1 INCH of water in the

tub sometimes - and we had to take turns using it. According to my

mother in later years - she always had me go LAST because if she let

me get in the water when it was warm, I would take too long (and thus

rob my sisters of warm water). So somehow I got stuck with the cold

one inch of water so I wouldn't deprive others of the joy of warm

water I guess.

I guess getting an inch of cold used water for a bath could sure set

up a belief in me that there is not enough to go around...

I also remember having 1/2 stick of chewing gum. I remember feeling

very grown up when I was " old enough " (I made that the connection) to

get a whole stick to myself.

Yet hand-me-downs were magical to me. I remember when my oldest

sister got a new lavander dress with a see through lavander jacket -

with little daisies around the buttons.

She made a big deal out of it that it would be MINE ne day. I was so

excited to see the beautiful dress that would be MINE one day (AFTER

it went through my middle sister, of course). I thank my oldest

sister for that - for making that dress so magical. Of course, by the

time I got it - the little daisies around the buttons were all curled

up and faded - but it didn't matter to me at all. I wore it proudly -

like it was a queen's cape or something. It never did lose it's magic

to me.

Free

> > Wow, yes!

> >

> > I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

> > life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was born

> > during the Great Depression.<<

> >

> My nada said the same thing. She used to go an hour out of the way

to

> save 10 cents on a can of tunafish, claiming it was a left-over from

> the Depression thing. She used to tell me if I'd of lived through

the

> Depression then I'd of understood about poverty. I used to believe

> that crap. I understand the (sometimes extreme) thrift ppl exhibit

> who've endured poverty. nada just couldn't deal with managing money,

> plain & simple.

>

> >>My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

> and health and medical attention because those just we're important

to

> our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive fur coats & etc

and

> sent the rest to the church.<<

>

> geez -- nadas with or w/o money do the same damage. After father

died,

> clueless nada became more profoundly clueless. She didn't get the

> connection --- if you don't put more than $20 in the oil burner,

> you're going to run out of oil every other day (NY winters were

> cold--inside our house was often colder than outdoors). She wouldn't

> have bought a fur coat if her life depended on it.

> >

> >>My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.<<

>

> Yeah we all wore stuff from the Salvation Army. It's weird bcs I

> remember not minding -- better than nothing. In her " Eulogy "

(written

> by all good older bro) we kids are described as somewhat scorning

> about wearing 2nd hand clothes, which isn't true. I live in thrift

> shop central -- I have clothes ppl think I paid thousands for --

from

> thrift shops. effin nadas.

>

>

> >

> > Thank you Nicky for this post.

> >

> > - Edith

[Guest guest]

When the school told nada to have my eyes examined, ca. 1965, she brought her

old glasses/frames to have my rx put into...they had those little pointy

things on the sides with rhinestones embedded in them, ca. 1940s? The

optometrist

was the only one there with any empathy at all, he donated frames for me.

Infuriated nada, I'd 'humiliated her again'. Carol

In a message dated 4/1/04 10:38:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

psyprof@... writes:

drs621@... wrote:

> Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School sent home

a

> note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me to the eye

> doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of $42. 36

years later

> I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and me for years

> about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost of things

and

> overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple of years

ago

> she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony. Thanks for

> letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still read the

lists for

> therapy.

> Debbie S.

Hi Debbie,

We're always glad to hear from the lurkers. But, geez, for a

minute there I thought your post was from my sister.

My sister doesn't like to talk about of childhood years. She

says she " tied those memories up in a little box with a great by

ribbon and buried it deep inside. " She's had lots of

stress-related health problems over the years.

My sister couldn't see and didn't get glasses until she was

practically in high school. When the optometrist put her new

glasses on her my sister was shocked when her visual world came

into focus.

We never had toothbrushes and our first trip to the dentist when

we were in our teens resulted in extractions.

We had to be careful when swinging on the swings as kids cuz we

had holes in our panties.

Mother always fought viciously with the neighbors so dad moved

us and, from the time I was 5 yo, we lived on an acre of land in

the middle of nowhere in Michigan. My dad built the house by

himself little by little over the years. I got to hold his tools.

The roof wasn't on when we moved in and it rained that day. Dad

was at work and when he got home we were all huddled under the

kitchen table and everything was soaked.

We didn't have indoor plumbing until just before I moved out at

age 18. We'd have a bath once or twice a year, by the oil stove

in the living room, in the same baby bathtub from when we were

infants. Consequently, I was the stinking, filthy dirty kid with

a ring of dirt around my neck and scabs behind my ears from

picking at the dirt.

The folks sent their clothes to the laundry once a month but not

ours. But, we didn't have any extras to wear anyway.

We had chickens. It was one of my jobs to take care of keeping

them fed and watered. So, we had either eggs or cornflakes to

eat everyday for breakfast. The eggs had to be cooked hard so

the yoke was solid like a wheel.

Sister and I shared a can of 's Anything Soup for lunch

and dinner was a bologna sandwich on brown bread. On Sundays dad

would cook a chicken. He'd eviscerate it on the kitchen table.

The stench was unbelievable!

In the winter, the chickens lived in the other side of the

outhouse. It would get soooo cold that their feet would freeze

off. Those were the ones we'd eat.

My mother never cooked or cleaned or did anything except lie in

bed and listen to the preachers on the radio all day,

interrogate us when we got home from school, and then tell us

what we should have said to whoever during the interrogation

process.

At home, we weren't allowed to talk to each other or dad. Mother

always had a headache and the rooms were kept in darkness. If

there was any talking done, my mother pitted my sister and I

against each other. My sister and I didn't bury the hatchet

until we were in our 40s.

The oil stove didn't generate enough heat to heat the house in

the winter so our bedroom was shut off during the day and it was

cold in there when we went to bed at night. We had bunk beds and

sister and I each had an Indian blanket to keep us warm. No sheets.

There's lots more ... but that's enough for this trip down

memory lane ... while letting it all hang out ...

The bottom line, my sister and I survived.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

I was the oldest of 4; it was my responsibility to sacrifice for the

'children'. I don't remember ever feeling good about 'getting' anything; only

that

someone else was being deprived because of me...i. e., if I had to be taken to a

dentist (here too Edith, not until we had an aching cavity/absess,

extractions only) Carol

[Guest guest]

Edith, we were poor on the inside; that was a huge family secret. My parents

were bankrupt more than once, moved to another state and started (borrowing)

all over again. We had holes in our underwear, wore our cousins cast off

cloths and shoes, ate oatmeal because it was the cheapest food that feeds a lot

of

people...little did they know then that it was actually good for us.

My nada had a 'headache' every Friday through Sunday night; stayed in bed,

came out in the middle of the night when we were all sleeping. She worked all

week but when we were all home on the weekends she couldn't stand the sight of

us. Carol

In a message dated 4/1/04 11:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

getevenpersevere@... writes:

When the school told nada to have my eyes examined, ca. 1965, she brought her

old glasses/frames to have my rx put into...they had those little pointy

things on the sides with rhinestones embedded in them, ca. 1940s? The

optometrist

was the only one there with any empathy at all, he donated frames for me.

Infuriated nada, I'd 'humiliated her again'. Carol

In a message dated 4/1/04 10:38:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

psyprof@... writes:

drs621@... wrote:

> Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School sent home

a

> note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me to the eye

> doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of $42. 36

years later

> I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and me for years

> about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost of things

and

> overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple of years

ago

> she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony. Thanks for

> letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still read the

lists for

> therapy.

> Debbie S.

Hi Debbie,

We're always glad to hear from the lurkers. But, geez, for a

minute there I thought your post was from my sister.

My sister doesn't like to talk about of childhood years. She

says she " tied those memories up in a little box with a great by

ribbon and buried it deep inside. " She's had lots of

stress-related health problems over the years.

My sister couldn't see and didn't get glasses until she was

practically in high school. When the optometrist put her new

glasses on her my sister was shocked when her visual world came

into focus.

We never had toothbrushes and our first trip to the dentist when

we were in our teens resulted in extractions.

We had to be careful when swinging on the swings as kids cuz we

had holes in our panties.

Mother always fought viciously with the neighbors so dad moved

us and, from the time I was 5 yo, we lived on an acre of land in

the middle of nowhere in Michigan. My dad built the house by

himself little by little over the years. I got to hold his tools.

The roof wasn't on when we moved in and it rained that day. Dad

was at work and when he got home we were all huddled under the

kitchen table and everything was soaked.

We didn't have indoor plumbing until just before I moved out at

age 18. We'd have a bath once or twice a year, by the oil stove

in the living room, in the same baby bathtub from when we were

infants. Consequently, I was the stinking, filthy dirty kid with

a ring of dirt around my neck and scabs behind my ears from

picking at the dirt.

The folks sent their clothes to the laundry once a month but not

ours. But, we didn't have any extras to wear anyway.

We had chickens. It was one of my jobs to take care of keeping

them fed and watered. So, we had either eggs or cornflakes to

eat everyday for breakfast. The eggs had to be cooked hard so

the yoke was solid like a wheel.

Sister and I shared a can of 's Anything Soup for lunch

and dinner was a bologna sandwich on brown bread. On Sundays dad

would cook a chicken. He'd eviscerate it on the kitchen table.

The stench was unbelievable!

In the winter, the chickens lived in the other side of the

outhouse. It would get soooo cold that their feet would freeze

off. Those were the ones we'd eat.

My mother never cooked or cleaned or did anything except lie in

bed and listen to the preachers on the radio all day,

interrogate us when we got home from school, and then tell us

what we should have said to whoever during the interrogation

process.

At home, we weren't allowed to talk to each other or dad. Mother

always had a headache and the rooms were kept in darkness. If

there was any talking done, my mother pitted my sister and I

against each other. My sister and I didn't bury the hatchet

until we were in our 40s.

The oil stove didn't generate enough heat to heat the house in

the winter so our bedroom was shut off during the day and it was

cold in there when we went to bed at night. We had bunk beds and

sister and I each had an Indian blanket to keep us warm. No sheets.

There's lots more ... but that's enough for this trip down

memory lane ... while letting it all hang out ...

The bottom line, my sister and I survived.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

Free,

That's a beautiful story about the 'magical dress'.

K

> > > Wow, yes!

> > >

> > > I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

> > > life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was

born

> > > during the Great Depression.<<

> > >

> > My nada said the same thing. She used to go an hour out of the

way

> to

> > save 10 cents on a can of tunafish, claiming it was a left-over

from

> > the Depression thing. She used to tell me if I'd of lived

through

> the

> > Depression then I'd of understood about poverty. I used to

believe

> > that crap. I understand the (sometimes extreme) thrift ppl

exhibit

> > who've endured poverty. nada just couldn't deal with managing

money,

> > plain & simple.

> >

> > >>My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

> > and health and medical attention because those just we're

important

> to

> > our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive fur coats &

etc

> and

> > sent the rest to the church.<<

> >

> > geez -- nadas with or w/o money do the same damage. After father

> died,

> > clueless nada became more profoundly clueless. She didn't get the

> > connection --- if you don't put more than $20 in the oil burner,

> > you're going to run out of oil every other day (NY winters were

> > cold--inside our house was often colder than outdoors). She

wouldn't

> > have bought a fur coat if her life depended on it.

> > >

> > >>My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> > and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.<<

> >

> > Yeah we all wore stuff from the Salvation Army. It's weird bcs I

> > remember not minding -- better than nothing. In her " Eulogy "

> (written

> > by all good older bro) we kids are described as somewhat scorning

> > about wearing 2nd hand clothes, which isn't true. I live in

thrift

> > shop central -- I have clothes ppl think I paid thousands for --

> from

> > thrift shops. effin nadas.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thank you Nicky for this post.

> > >

> > > - Edith

[Guest guest]

Free,

That's a beautiful story about the 'magical dress'.

K

> > > Wow, yes!

> > >

> > > I had this 'deprivation addiction' flea bigtime for most of my

> > > life. And I thought my self-deprivations were because I was

born

> > > during the Great Depression.<<

> > >

> > My nada said the same thing. She used to go an hour out of the

way

> to

> > save 10 cents on a can of tunafish, claiming it was a left-over

from

> > the Depression thing. She used to tell me if I'd of lived

through

> the

> > Depression then I'd of understood about poverty. I used to

believe

> > that crap. I understand the (sometimes extreme) thrift ppl

exhibit

> > who've endured poverty. nada just couldn't deal with managing

money,

> > plain & simple.

> >

> > >>My sister and I went without adequate food, clothing, shelter,

> > and health and medical attention because those just we're

important

> to

> > our BPD/NPD nada. She spent the money on expensive fur coats &

etc

> and

> > sent the rest to the church.<<

> >

> > geez -- nadas with or w/o money do the same damage. After father

> died,

> > clueless nada became more profoundly clueless. She didn't get the

> > connection --- if you don't put more than $20 in the oil burner,

> > you're going to run out of oil every other day (NY winters were

> > cold--inside our house was often colder than outdoors). She

wouldn't

> > have bought a fur coat if her life depended on it.

> > >

> > >>My sister and I wore dresses that my father bought at Goodwill

> > and I was raged at for wearing out my shoes.<<

> >

> > Yeah we all wore stuff from the Salvation Army. It's weird bcs I

> > remember not minding -- better than nothing. In her " Eulogy "

> (written

> > by all good older bro) we kids are described as somewhat scorning

> > about wearing 2nd hand clothes, which isn't true. I live in

thrift

> > shop central -- I have clothes ppl think I paid thousands for --

> from

> > thrift shops. effin nadas.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Thank you Nicky for this post.

> > >

> > > - Edith

[Guest guest]

drs621@... wrote:

> Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School sent home a

> note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me to the eye

> doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of $42. 36 years

later

> I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and me for years

> about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost of things and

> overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple of years ago

> she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony. Thanks for

> letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still read the lists

for

> therapy.

> Debbie S.

Hi Debbie,

We're always glad to hear from the lurkers. But, geez, for a

minute there I thought your post was from my sister.

My sister doesn't like to talk about of childhood years. She

says she " tied those memories up in a little box with a great by

ribbon and buried it deep inside. " She's had lots of

stress-related health problems over the years.

My sister couldn't see and didn't get glasses until she was

practically in high school. When the optometrist put her new

glasses on her my sister was shocked when her visual world came

into focus.

We never had toothbrushes and our first trip to the dentist when

we were in our teens resulted in extractions.

We had to be careful when swinging on the swings as kids cuz we

had holes in our panties.

Mother always fought viciously with the neighbors so dad moved

us and, from the time I was 5 yo, we lived on an acre of land in

the middle of nowhere in Michigan. My dad built the house by

himself little by little over the years. I got to hold his tools.

The roof wasn't on when we moved in and it rained that day. Dad

was at work and when he got home we were all huddled under the

kitchen table and everything was soaked.

We didn't have indoor plumbing until just before I moved out at

age 18. We'd have a bath once or twice a year, by the oil stove

in the living room, in the same baby bathtub from when we were

infants. Consequently, I was the stinking, filthy dirty kid with

a ring of dirt around my neck and scabs behind my ears from

picking at the dirt.

The folks sent their clothes to the laundry once a month but not

ours. But, we didn't have any extras to wear anyway.

We had chickens. It was one of my jobs to take care of keeping

them fed and watered. So, we had either eggs or cornflakes to

eat everyday for breakfast. The eggs had to be cooked hard so

the yoke was solid like a wheel.

Sister and I shared a can of 's Anything Soup for lunch

and dinner was a bologna sandwich on brown bread. On Sundays dad

would cook a chicken. He'd eviscerate it on the kitchen table.

The stench was unbelievable!

In the winter, the chickens lived in the other side of the

outhouse. It would get soooo cold that their feet would freeze

off. Those were the ones we'd eat.

My mother never cooked or cleaned or did anything except lie in

bed and listen to the preachers on the radio all day,

interrogate us when we got home from school, and then tell us

what we should have said to whoever during the interrogation

process.

At home, we weren't allowed to talk to each other or dad. Mother

always had a headache and the rooms were kept in darkness. If

there was any talking done, my mother pitted my sister and I

against each other. My sister and I didn't bury the hatchet

until we were in our 40s.

The oil stove didn't generate enough heat to heat the house in

the winter so our bedroom was shut off during the day and it was

cold in there when we went to bed at night. We had bunk beds and

sister and I each had an Indian blanket to keep us warm. No sheets.

There's lots more ... but that's enough for this trip down

memory lane ... while letting it all hang out ...

The bottom line, my sister and I survived.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

I've really started getting in touch with this feeling too. I seem to

have these contrasting feelings - One - that there is not " enough " -

Two - of feeling pushed aside -ignored - dismissed, and Three that

even if I do get what I want/need I am somehow denying someone else

getting what they want/need...which makes me feel selfish for wanting

something or guilty if I get it (or at least puts a " hook " there for

someone to yank me around with.)

I was dealing with the issue of being " pushed aside " the other day

because of something that happened (i.e. I was pushed to the side

{amazing how triggers are triggered by triggers})

Anyway - this woman I have been talking to a lot told me " You are

just as important as anyone else. "

That sure sounded nice to me.

I tried to do this affirmation all the next day..going around

saying " I am just as important as anyone else.. "

It sounded nice - but didn't seem to cut it.

When I was out in the woods - I tried chanting it again. Then - I

started taking it back one level.

Finally I got to " I Exist. " When I said that I just started crying.

So I just kept saying it over and over " I EXIST! I EXIST! " and had

tears streaming down my face the whole time. I just kept saying it

until saying it didn't make me cry anymore.

I guess it is hard to think you are important - when on some level

you still haven't made the claim that you even exist.

Free ( I exist)

I don't remember ever feeling good about 'getting' anything; only

that someone else was being deprived because of me...

[Guest guest]

Edith,

Wow. Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I think someone else

posted recently how you've changed on this list and are much more

open and less standing back like a moderator of late. I remember

being a little intimidated by you when I first logged on back in

2002/2001 and I don't remember you ever sharing as much as I've seen

lately. I'm really glad you are writing all this down and opening up

so much as you definitely seem like you've got KO stories now (not

sure I ever read this much info on you before)...verdict was still

out for a long time-lol.

Your stories reminds me a little of my grandmother who was born in

1921. I really loved her to pieces and she did have a lot of fleas

though I dont' think I'd label her as a BP unlike my nada. I do

think her fleas helped nada and I think she was a sucky mom to my

nada in infancy, but she had a real nurturing side to her and as a

grown up I can see my grandpa adding much more to the nada/bp

equation than grandmother- he is the one that always had favorites

while grandmother never had favorites even though she was a bit cold

and asked to be called 'mother', but that's what she called her

mother and she loved it. She always use to say how sorry she was for

being so hard on my mom, but it wasn't a fake 'feel sorry for me'

like my other grandnada on dad's side, rather a genuine humanness of

reflecting back on one's life and seeing the consequences of one's

behavior w/how nada treated us as kids.

Anyway, your story reminded me also of when I got married and why

people love being June brides and why they have flowers at weddings.

Back in the olden days people did only bathe once or twice a year

and you sound like you got caught between generational tendencies.

Well in the springtime was when most people had their bathes and so

June fell shortly afterwards and hence is still the most popular

month for weddings. In so far as flowers, those were used to cover

the stench for most weddings that weren't in the springtime or for

people who didn't get to bath before their wedding.

By the way, you mention chickens and raising them, do you have a

hang up w/chickens now? I'm just curious as I did for a long time

b/c grandnada on dad's side had a whole mess of chickens and she'd

get us grandkids, we were under 10 I'm sure, to go to the hen house

and gather the eggs. Those chickens would peck at us and bite us and

sometimes there were even snakes in the hen house. I think back now

and wonder why my parents didn't try to protect us, but they were

screwed up too and too intimidated by her to protect us. Instead dad

died and nada turned into a 'grandnada' too. Oh well, I've just

recently been able to eat chickens again after many years of hating

the things, but I'm highly allergic to eggs as of the last year or

so- too funny, huh?

Its sad about your sister's health. Has she looked into bp as much

as you have? I'm so glad that you both were able to mend fences in

your 40s. It is very hard, in my opinion, to keep close w/your

siblings when nada's do so much to turn each other on one another.

In my case, I think having my dad die sealed the deal w/my brother

and my relationship. I felt more like his mom growing up as nada

just sucked and didn't give a rat's butt about making sure he was

doing good in school or anything else. I'd intervene for him and

she'd get so pissed off at me, but I just felt it my job to take the

punches for him...verbal punches that is as she never left physical

marks- she was too smart for that as child abuse was so taboo by the

time I entered the planet- 1971. I do find it strange, however, that

the witch grandnada who beat her kids til they bled can now say 'I

don't know how someone can hurt a baby or a child.' Talk about

disassociation.

Oh well. Thanks again so much for sharing this stuff. It's really

interesting. I feel like I know you much better than before and like

you've really grown from this board too!

Kerrie

>

> > Edith, your post reminded me of the time when I was 11. School

sent home a

> > note that I had bad eyesight. So nada makes my father take me

to the eye

> > doctor. The exam was $14 and the glasses $28 for a total of

$42. 36 years later

> > I can still remember the cost because she raged at my dad and

me for years

> > about the cost. She is still obsessed about the cost

of things and

> > overreacts to anything. When her rent was increased a couple

of years ago

> > she told me she wanted to throw herself off the balcony.

Thanks for

> > letting me vent a little. haven't posted in a while but still

read the lists for

> > therapy.

> > Debbie S.

>

> Hi Debbie,

>

> We're always glad to hear from the lurkers. But, geez, for a

> minute there I thought your post was from my sister.

>

> My sister doesn't like to talk about of childhood years. She

> says she " tied those memories up in a little box with a great by

> ribbon and buried it deep inside. " She's had lots of

> stress-related health problems over the years.

>

> My sister couldn't see and didn't get glasses until she was

> practically in high school. When the optometrist put her new

> glasses on her my sister was shocked when her visual world came

> into focus.

>

> We never had toothbrushes and our first trip to the dentist when

> we were in our teens resulted in extractions.

>

> We had to be careful when swinging on the swings as kids cuz we

> had holes in our panties.

>

> Mother always fought viciously with the neighbors so dad moved

> us and, from the time I was 5 yo, we lived on an acre of land in

> the middle of nowhere in Michigan. My dad built the house by

> himself little by little over the years. I got to hold his tools.

>

> The roof wasn't on when we moved in and it rained that day. Dad

> was at work and when he got home we were all huddled under the

> kitchen table and everything was soaked.

>

> We didn't have indoor plumbing until just before I moved out at

> age 18. We'd have a bath once or twice a year, by the oil stove

> in the living room, in the same baby bathtub from when we were

> infants. Consequently, I was the stinking, filthy dirty kid with

> a ring of dirt around my neck and scabs behind my ears from

> picking at the dirt.

>

> The folks sent their clothes to the laundry once a month but not

> ours. But, we didn't have any extras to wear anyway.

>

> We had chickens. It was one of my jobs to take care of keeping

> them fed and watered. So, we had either eggs or cornflakes to

> eat everyday for breakfast. The eggs had to be cooked hard so

> the yoke was solid like a wheel.

>

> Sister and I shared a can of 's Anything Soup for lunch

> and dinner was a bologna sandwich on brown bread. On Sundays dad

> would cook a chicken. He'd eviscerate it on the kitchen table.

> The stench was unbelievable!

>

> In the winter, the chickens lived in the other side of the

> outhouse. It would get soooo cold that their feet would freeze

> off. Those were the ones we'd eat.

>

> My mother never cooked or cleaned or did anything except lie in

> bed and listen to the preachers on the radio all day,

> interrogate us when we got home from school, and then tell us

> what we should have said to whoever during the interrogation

> process.

>

> At home, we weren't allowed to talk to each other or dad. Mother

> always had a headache and the rooms were kept in darkness. If

> there was any talking done, my mother pitted my sister and I

> against each other. My sister and I didn't bury the hatchet

> until we were in our 40s.

>

> The oil stove didn't generate enough heat to heat the house in

> the winter so our bedroom was shut off during the day and it was

> cold in there when we went to bed at night. We had bunk beds and

> sister and I each had an Indian blanket to keep us warm. No sheets.

>

> There's lots more ... but that's enough for this trip down

> memory lane ... while letting it all hang out ...

>

> The bottom line, my sister and I survived.

>

> - Edith

[Guest guest]

Edith,

my mother seemed to be the opposite in the cleanliness department. she would

drag us out of bed in the middle of the night to brush our teeth (she

insisted we lied about brushing). I can really relate to the " mommy

dearest " --Joan

Crawford type of mother. High functioning to the outside world but a Hateful

witch to her kids.

Somehow we survive but we always carry the baggage for life. It's sad that

parents hold the cards on our lives forever. I have trouble focusing and

always escape by " daydreaming " . I suppose it was the only way I coped with

my reality.

Debbie

> Hi Debbie,

>

> We're always glad to hear from the lurkers. But, geez, for a

> minute there I thought your post was from my sister.

>

> My sister doesn't like to talk about of childhood years. She

> says she " tied those memories up in a little box with a great by

> ribbon and buried it deep inside. " She's had lots of

> stress-related health problems over the years.

>

> My sister couldn't see and didn't get glasses until she was

> practically in high school. When the optometrist put her new

> glasses on her my sister was shocked when her visual world came

> into focus.

>

> We never had toothbrushes and our first trip to the dentist when

> we were in our teens resulted in extractions.

>

[Guest guest]

Kerrie wrote:

> Edith,

> Wow. Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I think someone else

> posted recently how you've changed on this list and are much more

> open and less standing back like a moderator of late.

Hi Kerrie,

Actually that was Nicky's post, comparing where I am today as

opposed to four years ago on another list.

I remember

> being a little intimidated by you when I first logged on back in

> 2002/2001 and I don't remember you ever sharing as much as I've seen

> lately.

ha ha I've spilled my guts all over the 30+ WTO lists, plus all

the 'closed' lists, and other (ie, NPD) lists over the past 8

years. Sometimes I get tired of writing about my past

experiences BUT when I find a gold nugget, like Nicky's post re

'deprivation addiction' that I can finally label as another of

my fleas to work on, then I spill some more. I'm like that

little teapot. lol

I'm really glad you are writing all this down and opening up

> so much as you definitely seem like you've got KO stories now (not

> sure I ever read this much info on you before)...verdict was still

> out for a long time-lol.

The archives are loaded with them. Did my heart good to hear

that Nicky had read through the list archives. There's lots of

good stuff there, and its not all mine. We KOs learn from each

other.

> Anyway, your story reminded me also of when I got married and why

> people love being June brides and why they have flowers at weddings.

> Back in the olden days people did only bathe once or twice a year

> and you sound like you got caught between generational tendencies.

> Well in the springtime was when most people had their bathes and so

> June fell shortly afterwards and hence is still the most popular

> month for weddings. In so far as flowers, those were used to cover

> the stench for most weddings that weren't in the springtime or for

> people who didn't get to bath before their wedding.

I think that other kids in my generation had bathtubs and other

amenities. Dad worked hard and made good money but nada blew it.

I was never allowed to have a friend and I never entered any

other kid's house until I was 17 yo. I'd joined the Biology Club

that year, when I was in high school, and my nada let me attend

a meeting at a club member's house. The mother had prepared

jello with fruit cocktail in it. I'd never seen anything like

that before. Its still one of my fav desserts. I ate in a

restaurant for the first time that same year when I entered

college. The band members in the music department went to this

little place around the corner to eat and I had scrambled eggs

and toast with those little jam things. I still love those

things. I bought mySelf a carton (144) of them for mySelf about

four years ago. Its these little memories of having made first

choices that are fun for me to recall.

> By the way, you mention chickens and raising them, do you have a

> hang up w/chickens now?

Yes, but only because my hubby used to cook sometimes (he

thought he was the world's greatest chef), but he didn't cook

the chicken enough and the entrail-like smell of under-cooked

chicken really turned me off. Yuk!

I'm just curious as I did for a long time

> b/c grandnada on dad's side had a whole mess of chickens and she'd

> get us grandkids, we were under 10 I'm sure, to go to the hen house

> and gather the eggs.

Uh huh. That was my job.

Those chickens would peck at us and bite us and

> sometimes there were even snakes in the hen house.

The chickens were all my friends. And, I never saw any snakes. I

also had Guinea hens, and ring-neck ducks, and lots of cats and

dogs. It was the dogs who gave me unconditional love.

> Its sad about your sister's health. Has she looked into bp as much

> as you have?

No. Until recently she's refused to talk about it. She was the

'all bad' kid and our nada was always threatening to send her to

the orphanage. She spent every summer at g'mas house.

I'm so glad that you both were able to mend fences in

> your 40s. It is very hard, in my opinion, to keep close w/your

> siblings when nada's do so much to turn each other on one another.

We mended our fences in our 40s behind our nada's back.

> In my case, I think having my dad die sealed the deal w/my brother

> and my relationship. I felt more like his mom growing up as nada

> just sucked and didn't give a rat's butt about making sure he was

> doing good in school or anything else.

You might want to work on that relationship with your bro. My

nada could care less about our education. I was gifted musically

but I couldn't have music lessons because nada had had music

lessons and didn't like them. When I was 16 yo, and recovering

from rheumatic fever, she gave me a $10 bill which I later used

to buy a violin and I shamed her into letting my have music

lessons by telling her that even the garbage-collector's kids

had music lessons. LOL She also had dad by a 2nd car so I could

drive it to school, instead of walking the 2 miles to and from

the nearest bus. I had missed a semester because of the

rheumatic fever and I had lived with a defective heart since.

The use of the (HER) car came with strings attached. I had to

drive her anywhere she wanted to go on Saturdays, which was

usually to a bunch of hat shops where she'd try on hats while I

sat in the car waiting for her. Sometimes she'd buy one. But she

never entered a grocery store or did anything practical on those

days.

I'd intervene for him and

> she'd get so pissed off at me, but I just felt it my job to take the

> punches for him...verbal punches that is as she never left physical

> marks- she was too smart for that as child abuse was so taboo by the

> time I entered the planet- 1971.

My nada was physically as well as verbally abusive. My dad

stopped beating us when we were in our teen years. Prior to then

if our nada gave him orders to beat us, he did. The Witch/Queen

ruled!!!

I do find it strange, however, that

> the witch grandnada who beat her kids til they bled can now say 'I

> don't know how someone can hurt a baby or a child.' Talk about

> disassociation.

Yes. They have cognitive distortions and re-write history.

> Oh well. Thanks again so much for sharing this stuff. It's really

> interesting. I feel like I know you much better than before and like

> you've really grown from this board too!

Hey, I've been growing LOTS the past 8 years.

- Edith

Standing tall

[Guest guest]

Kerrie wrote:

> Edith,

> Wow. Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I think someone else

> posted recently how you've changed on this list and are much more

> open and less standing back like a moderator of late.

Hi Kerrie,

Actually that was Nicky's post, comparing where I am today as

opposed to four years ago on another list.

I remember

> being a little intimidated by you when I first logged on back in

> 2002/2001 and I don't remember you ever sharing as much as I've seen

> lately.

ha ha I've spilled my guts all over the 30+ WTO lists, plus all

the 'closed' lists, and other (ie, NPD) lists over the past 8

years. Sometimes I get tired of writing about my past

experiences BUT when I find a gold nugget, like Nicky's post re

'deprivation addiction' that I can finally label as another of

my fleas to work on, then I spill some more. I'm like that

little teapot. lol

I'm really glad you are writing all this down and opening up

> so much as you definitely seem like you've got KO stories now (not

> sure I ever read this much info on you before)...verdict was still

> out for a long time-lol.

The archives are loaded with them. Did my heart good to hear

that Nicky had read through the list archives. There's lots of

good stuff there, and its not all mine. We KOs learn from each

other.

> Anyway, your story reminded me also of when I got married and why

> people love being June brides and why they have flowers at weddings.

> Back in the olden days people did only bathe once or twice a year

> and you sound like you got caught between generational tendencies.

> Well in the springtime was when most people had their bathes and so

> June fell shortly afterwards and hence is still the most popular

> month for weddings. In so far as flowers, those were used to cover

> the stench for most weddings that weren't in the springtime or for

> people who didn't get to bath before their wedding.

I think that other kids in my generation had bathtubs and other

amenities. Dad worked hard and made good money but nada blew it.

I was never allowed to have a friend and I never entered any

other kid's house until I was 17 yo. I'd joined the Biology Club

that year, when I was in high school, and my nada let me attend

a meeting at a club member's house. The mother had prepared

jello with fruit cocktail in it. I'd never seen anything like

that before. Its still one of my fav desserts. I ate in a

restaurant for the first time that same year when I entered

college. The band members in the music department went to this

little place around the corner to eat and I had scrambled eggs

and toast with those little jam things. I still love those

things. I bought mySelf a carton (144) of them for mySelf about

four years ago. Its these little memories of having made first

choices that are fun for me to recall.

> By the way, you mention chickens and raising them, do you have a

> hang up w/chickens now?

Yes, but only because my hubby used to cook sometimes (he

thought he was the world's greatest chef), but he didn't cook

the chicken enough and the entrail-like smell of under-cooked

chicken really turned me off. Yuk!

I'm just curious as I did for a long time

> b/c grandnada on dad's side had a whole mess of chickens and she'd

> get us grandkids, we were under 10 I'm sure, to go to the hen house

> and gather the eggs.

Uh huh. That was my job.

Those chickens would peck at us and bite us and

> sometimes there were even snakes in the hen house.

The chickens were all my friends. And, I never saw any snakes. I

also had Guinea hens, and ring-neck ducks, and lots of cats and

dogs. It was the dogs who gave me unconditional love.

> Its sad about your sister's health. Has she looked into bp as much

> as you have?

No. Until recently she's refused to talk about it. She was the

'all bad' kid and our nada was always threatening to send her to

the orphanage. She spent every summer at g'mas house.

I'm so glad that you both were able to mend fences in

> your 40s. It is very hard, in my opinion, to keep close w/your

> siblings when nada's do so much to turn each other on one another.

We mended our fences in our 40s behind our nada's back.

> In my case, I think having my dad die sealed the deal w/my brother

> and my relationship. I felt more like his mom growing up as nada

> just sucked and didn't give a rat's butt about making sure he was

> doing good in school or anything else.

You might want to work on that relationship with your bro. My

nada could care less about our education. I was gifted musically

but I couldn't have music lessons because nada had had music

lessons and didn't like them. When I was 16 yo, and recovering

from rheumatic fever, she gave me a $10 bill which I later used

to buy a violin and I shamed her into letting my have music

lessons by telling her that even the garbage-collector's kids

had music lessons. LOL She also had dad by a 2nd car so I could

drive it to school, instead of walking the 2 miles to and from

the nearest bus. I had missed a semester because of the

rheumatic fever and I had lived with a defective heart since.

The use of the (HER) car came with strings attached. I had to

drive her anywhere she wanted to go on Saturdays, which was

usually to a bunch of hat shops where she'd try on hats while I

sat in the car waiting for her. Sometimes she'd buy one. But she

never entered a grocery store or did anything practical on those

days.

I'd intervene for him and

> she'd get so pissed off at me, but I just felt it my job to take the

> punches for him...verbal punches that is as she never left physical

> marks- she was too smart for that as child abuse was so taboo by the

> time I entered the planet- 1971.

My nada was physically as well as verbally abusive. My dad

stopped beating us when we were in our teen years. Prior to then

if our nada gave him orders to beat us, he did. The Witch/Queen

ruled!!!

I do find it strange, however, that

> the witch grandnada who beat her kids til they bled can now say 'I

> don't know how someone can hurt a baby or a child.' Talk about

> disassociation.

Yes. They have cognitive distortions and re-write history.

> Oh well. Thanks again so much for sharing this stuff. It's really

> interesting. I feel like I know you much better than before and like

> you've really grown from this board too!

Hey, I've been growing LOTS the past 8 years.

- Edith

Standing tall

[Guest guest]

Edith,

I read all the posts concerning this subject. I have to say that you & I had

similar childhoods. We rarely had hot water or even running water. We had to dig

through dirty clothes to find any clean ones. We had no toys so we invented our

own. We went to school with dirty clothes on.

There was one little girl who had it worse than I did. She came to school with

no panties on & wearing a dress. She fell while playing and her dress came all

the way up. The kids teased her unmercifully. It came out that the little girl

had no panties to wear at all. To me that was way worse than my situation. I

only had 2 or 3 outfits to wear at all. All my clothes were hand me downs.

Including underwear & some of them were held up with safety pins. I stuffed

toilet paper in the toes of my moms shoes a couple of times so that I would have

shoes. But most of the times we could only wear flip flops. During the summer we

didn't have shoes to wear. I have a hard time now with trying to wear shoes and

socks. I feel like I can't breathe with them on during the summer & winter is

almost as hard on me.

I confess that my fleas are buying too many clothes & I keep food in stock. Many

times our stock of food has kept us a float though so that isn't something I am

willing to change. My kids have never done without Utilities even if I had to

borrow the money or write a bad check & make it good a week later. We don't do

without shampoo, towels, toilet paper, and a great many other things. Those are

all things that I always had to do without as a child. I also had very few

friends because of being so poor, so I have few now. Its hard for me to make

friends very easily. To be honest I have learned over the years it is better to

have just a few close friends than to have many friends that make me

uncomfortable at times.

I make sure that my kids have clothes even if they are 2nd hand clothes from

goodwill, salvation army, or any thrift shop. My kids do get new underwear,

bras, socks, & shoes any time they need them. Those I will not buy 2nd hand. I

do go overboard with buying the 2nd hand ones. I just wanted my kids to have

everything I couldn't have. They have always had way more toys than they should

have gotten, but the past has had a big impact on my todays. In some ways, I

guess it could be a flea. But over all, my kids don't feel like they have been

deprived of much, if anything at all.

Debbie

Re: Re: Marla re deprivation addiction

Kerrie wrote:

> Edith,

> Wow. Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I think someone else

> posted recently how you've changed on this list and are much more

> open and less standing back like a moderator of late.

Hi Kerrie,

Actually that was Nicky's post, comparing where I am today as

opposed to four years ago on another list.

I remember

> being a little intimidated by you when I first logged on back in

> 2002/2001 and I don't remember you ever sharing as much as I've seen

> lately.

ha ha I've spilled my guts all over the 30+ WTO lists, plus all

the 'closed' lists, and other (ie, NPD) lists over the past 8

years. Sometimes I get tired of writing about my past

experiences BUT when I find a gold nugget, like Nicky's post re

'deprivation addiction' that I can finally label as another of

my fleas to work on, then I spill some more. I'm like that

little teapot. lol

I'm really glad you are writing all this down and opening up

> so much as you definitely seem like you've got KO stories now (not

> sure I ever read this much info on you before)...verdict was still

> out for a long time-lol.

The archives are loaded with them. Did my heart good to hear

that Nicky had read through the list archives. There's lots of

good stuff there, and its not all mine. We KOs learn from each

other.

> Anyway, your story reminded me also of when I got married and why

> people love being June brides and why they have flowers at weddings.

> Back in the olden days people did only bathe once or twice a year

> and you sound like you got caught between generational tendencies.

> Well in the springtime was when most people had their bathes and so

> June fell shortly afterwards and hence is still the most popular

> month for weddings. In so far as flowers, those were used to cover

> the stench for most weddings that weren't in the springtime or for

> people who didn't get to bath before their wedding.

I think that other kids in my generation had bathtubs and other

amenities. Dad worked hard and made good money but nada blew it.

I was never allowed to have a friend and I never entered any

other kid's house until I was 17 yo. I'd joined the Biology Club

that year, when I was in high school, and my nada let me attend

a meeting at a club member's house. The mother had prepared

jello with fruit cocktail in it. I'd never seen anything like

that before. Its still one of my fav desserts. I ate in a

restaurant for the first time that same year when I entered

college. The band members in the music department went to this

little place around the corner to eat and I had scrambled eggs

and toast with those little jam things. I still love those

things. I bought mySelf a carton (144) of them for mySelf about

four years ago. Its these little memories of having made first

choices that are fun for me to recall.

> By the way, you mention chickens and raising them, do you have a

> hang up w/chickens now?

Yes, but only because my hubby used to cook sometimes (he

thought he was the world's greatest chef), but he didn't cook

the chicken enough and the entrail-like smell of under-cooked

chicken really turned me off. Yuk!

I'm just curious as I did for a long time

> b/c grandnada on dad's side had a whole mess of chickens and she'd

> get us grandkids, we were under 10 I'm sure, to go to the hen house

> and gather the eggs.

Uh huh. That was my job.

Those chickens would peck at us and bite us and

> sometimes there were even snakes in the hen house.

The chickens were all my friends. And, I never saw any snakes. I

also had Guinea hens, and ring-neck ducks, and lots of cats and

dogs. It was the dogs who gave me unconditional love.

> Its sad about your sister's health. Has she looked into bp as much

> as you have?

No. Until recently she's refused to talk about it. She was the

'all bad' kid and our nada was always threatening to send her to

the orphanage. She spent every summer at g'mas house.

I'm so glad that you both were able to mend fences in

> your 40s. It is very hard, in my opinion, to keep close w/your

> siblings when nada's do so much to turn each other on one another.

We mended our fences in our 40s behind our nada's back.

> In my case, I think having my dad die sealed the deal w/my brother

> and my relationship. I felt more like his mom growing up as nada

> just sucked and didn't give a rat's butt about making sure he was

> doing good in school or anything else.

You might want to work on that relationship with your bro. My

nada could care less about our education. I was gifted musically

but I couldn't have music lessons because nada had had music

lessons and didn't like them. When I was 16 yo, and recovering

from rheumatic fever, she gave me a $10 bill which I later used

to buy a violin and I shamed her into letting my have music

lessons by telling her that even the garbage-collector's kids

had music lessons. LOL She also had dad by a 2nd car so I could

drive it to school, instead of walking the 2 miles to and from

the nearest bus. I had missed a semester because of the

rheumatic fever and I had lived with a defective heart since.

The use of the (HER) car came with strings attached. I had to

drive her anywhere she wanted to go on Saturdays, which was

usually to a bunch of hat shops where she'd try on hats while I

sat in the car waiting for her. Sometimes she'd buy one. But she

never entered a grocery store or did anything practical on those

days.

I'd intervene for him and

> she'd get so pissed off at me, but I just felt it my job to take the

> punches for him...verbal punches that is as she never left physical

> marks- she was too smart for that as child abuse was so taboo by the

> time I entered the planet- 1971.

My nada was physically as well as verbally abusive. My dad

stopped beating us when we were in our teen years. Prior to then

if our nada gave him orders to beat us, he did. The Witch/Queen

ruled!!!

I do find it strange, however, that

> the witch grandnada who beat her kids til they bled can now say 'I

> don't know how someone can hurt a baby or a child.' Talk about

> disassociation.

Yes. They have cognitive distortions and re-write history.

> Oh well. Thanks again so much for sharing this stuff. It's really

> interesting. I feel like I know you much better than before and like

> you've really grown from this board too!

Hey, I've been growing LOTS the past 8 years.

- Edith

Standing tall

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