Re: Re: Double Standard

[Guest guest]

I notice that women can hold hands and they aren't accused of being

homosexual, but if men do it all the alarms go off. I was talking

to an African guy once and he held my hand. He wasn't gay, it was

just normal in his culture. If he tried that in America he would

probably get a very negative reaction.

- Dan

Dan,

My husband's fathers side of the family come from the " old World " . They think

nothing of swimming in the nude or having nude photos in their albums. They also

have a custom that even the males kiss each other on the cheek in greeting or

leaving and its nothing for them to hug each other in public.

My husband started out being like most american guys in that he wouldn't kiss

or hug male members of his family because he had not been raised around his

fathers people. He was very young at the time. They were very hurt by his

behavior.

He realized that he couldn't afford to be that way if he wanted to keep from

hurting them. It is very natural to him now.

His step-grandmother was showing me a photo album and there were various

people outside swimming. They were all in the nude. I was very uncomfortable and

I am sure that I turned quite red in the face.

If you aren't raised that way it seems very un-natural. Sometimes you have to

say " To hell with what society says " when it is a situation that is innocent,

but loving and caring. I myself see nothing wrong with a father and son hugging.

Boys and Men need hugs also. The need for hugs doesn't stop just because a boy

hits a certain age. And although a male may not feel comfortable with hugging a

friend or kissing him on the cheek here, I see nothing wrong with guys having a

close relationship. Not everything that is comforting between friends is sinful.

I wouldn't hold hands with a girl as it feels unnatural, but hugging her or

consoling her or even kissing her on the forehead or cheek is a natural thing in

my family. But I also know that it is not natural in all families even for

mothers and daughters to hug. I do not hug my mother because its uncomfortable

and strange to me. But I think nothing of hugging my husbands people or my

mothers people or my children. Its all a matter of how you were raised I

suppose. But guys are way too uptight about being considered gay. But at one

time all gays were killed and I am sure that mistakes were made simply because

of different customs being misunderstood.

Debbie

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[Guest guest]

Dear Tammy...

Oh yes I do- it happened to me- only I told myself he was like a " brother " I

never had, instead of an " adopted son " . Believe me, I have a clue. Don't punish

me for my honesty- although I am truly sorry if it hit a nerve or hurt your

feelings... take good care.

Sincerely AND lovingly-

Christy

Double Standard

>

>

> Hey gang,

>

> I could use some feedback on this. Why is it that when a woman

is

> friends with a man (strictly platonic) that people don't believe

> there's nothing going on sexually between them? It seems like

it's

> okay for men, but not for women - to me there's always been a

double

> standard there.

>

> I ask this because this just keeps happening to me over and over

> again to the point where I am convinced my crazy mother was

right.

> If you spend time with a man other than your spouse, you must be

> having sex with him - or at least that's what people think.

>

> I have brought this up because it's happening again. When I was

> teaching, there was one of many students of mine that I took a

> special interest in. His name is Josh and he graduated last year

and

> is now in the Marine Corp. He's home on leave this week (I

haven't

> seen him since last sept.) and he called me and asked if I would

like

> to have lunch with him, so I did yesterday. Last night, I called

him

> and asked him if he would like to go to the gun range with me

(and my

> son) to do some target shooting with my revolver. He told me

> yesterday he had never fired a handgun and I thought he would

enjoy

> it. Also, my son (11 yo) is very interested in anything military

and

> I thought Josh could use the opportunity to share with my son

some of

> his experiences in his military training which Josh was more than

> willing to do. I didn't outright invite my husband because I

didn't

> think he would be comfortable around Josh because there's this

whole

> issue from the early days of my therapy where I was unable to

> recognize healthy boundaries with my students and got too

involved in

> their personal lives. Josh was one of them. I didn't say

anything

> to my husband about wanting to go with Josh to the range because

he

> has told me on several occasions that if I'm comfortable with the

> situation then I can do what I want. He's never really been

> controlling about stuff like that. Anyway, last night he got

really

> pissed and his feelings were hurt that he wasn't invited. We got

> into an argument because he said that his ex-wife once had some

guy

> show up from her past and they screwed around and he didn't like

the

> fact that I had 'blind-sided' him like that. He felt I should

have

> told him I was in touch with Josh again after cutting off contact

> with Josh when I first started therapy(at the time, I intended it

to

> permanent which is what I told DH). I didn't because I feel like

> I've resolved my boundary issues and for me it was a way of

testing

> the waters. My DH also got mad because he said he didn't like

> being 'tested' like that. I apologized to him and told him that

it

> wouldn't happen again.

>

> The thing with Josh is, he's such a special kid. He has a

learning

> disability (not obvious) and I have always been in awe of his

> perseverance against incredible odds. His dad left when he was 5

and

> he hasn't seen or heard from him since. He's a first rate marine

and

> our country is a safer place because of him. I love him, but

it's

> the kind of love for a son - I think of him as an adopted son.

My

> husband doesn't see it that way, though. He's seen him and I

think

> he thinks that because Josh is so handsome (stunning blue eyes,

blond

> hair, and a very muscular body) that I have the hots for him or

> something. I am human and yes, I think the kid is handsome, but

I'm

> not ATTRACTED to him. Sleeping with Josh would be like sleeping

with

> my son and I told DH that. The thought is repulsive to me.

There

> was a time well over a year ago when my DH and I were going

through

> some rough times and Josh was complaining that he was embarrassed

> that he was 18 and still a virgin that I thought about it, but

that's

> over and done with. My husband doesn't know that I thought about

it.

>

> DH also thinks Josh has the hots for me because it's not unusual

for

> high school students to develop a crush on their teachers. I

told

> him Josh has never said or done anything to indicate that to me

and

> that if he ever did, I would tell him it was inappropriate and

then I

> would remove him from my life because it would be the right thing

to

> do. Because of my boundary issues, some people wondered if there

was

> more to our relationship than was appropriate. His mom, who is a

> friend of mine, even asked me outright once if there was anything

bad

> going on between us. I told her no and she said she didn't think

> there was and that was the end of it as far as HIS family was

> concerned. Josh's family sees me as someone special who did more

> than any other teacher he had to help him succeed. I'm really

proud

> of that. Even though I had boundary issues, there was some good

that

> came out of it. I see myself as a mentor to him. He is the only

> person I know who is as fascinated with microprocessors as I am

and

> we like to talk about it a lot. It would be nicer if my husband

> shared my fascination with them, but shouldn't I have other

people in

> my life besides him to talk to?

>

> Sorry this is so long, but I really need some help with this.

Right

> now I'm feeling like I can't have friendships with men. Starting

> with my mom and ending with my husband, it just causes too much

grief

> and I can't take it anymore. I have always preferred the company

of

> men (no offense ladies) because I RELATE to men better than women

and

> if a man I want to be friends with wants to be more than friends,

I

> know how to handle that and have done so effectively on more than

one

> occasion, so I don't see it as a problem. It just seems to me

that

> I'm doomed to a life of loneliness without friends other than my

> husband because it just hurts too much.

>

> Bummed out to the max,

>

> Tammy

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered

via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go

to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Free,

Not all men are after just one thing. But you don't think the ones that are will

tell you do you? <smile and wink> Some are subtle in the way they go about it,

some are bold, & some are in the middle. Men are usually more sexual in nature

than women are. That is usually how they judge their relationship with their

significant other. If the woman is responsive to that aspect, then usually all

is well in the relationship. If she is not responsive to the idea, then usually

something is wrong. They assume if that area isn't right the woman is unhappy

for some reason. A lot of times they are absolutely correct.

Women as a general rule judge the relationship on the cuddling and talking

factor and are more likely to not assume something is wrong based on the sexual

area. They understand that sometimes its just the timing, the mood, or the

stress of life for either one of them at the time.

Now please keep in mind that I am basing this on the law of averages. Not

every woman is more emotional than sexual. Not every man is more sexual than

emotional. There are a few exceptions here and there. I base this on past

studies that I have done on the issue. Since I was not raised in a healthy

atmosphere I have studied many books on the issues of male/female relationships,

childcare, mental health, and psychological problems. I had to or I would have,

once again, lost all that was precious to me. Not all books have information

that is irrefutable(sp), but the more you read the same things by different

authors in different times of life the law of averages increases that they are

correct.

Debbie

Re: Double Standard

You know though... the double standard thing...

It has puzzled me that guys don't trust other guys. I have had guys

tell me that Men can't have plantonic relationships with women -

because most men are just after " one " thing.

But if I ask the guy - " is that what you are after? " they deny it.

It seems many men believe that most men EXCEPT them are after one

thing...

Never could figure that out.

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Tammy,

I can see by this post that I misunderstood the other posts. I never saw the

original one that you posted. Perhaps the difference is that you didn't invite

your husband as well as your son in order to give him a choice to go with you or

not. See, if you give him the choice, he cannot in good moral conscience accuse

you of anything wrong if he chooses not to go. You are then not putting your

students ahead of him.

Personally, I believe that seeing a student after graduation and the successes

students have is very encouraging for both the student and the teacher. It means

that a particular teacher has inspired the child in some manner to be and do

their best in certain areas of their lives. It also says the teacher is on the

right track and is an added perk to the job That isn't in the contract with the

state (government entity?). Its very much along the lines of my homeschooling.

It is a great perk to me to hear my 13 year old read as I taught him. It is a

great perk to me to see my 20 year old reading a 300 or 400 page book in 2

weeks, when at 13 or 14 he wouldn't even pick up a book at all. (That is the age

I pulled him from school as he could barely read) . I think every teacher should

have these perks that tell them when they are on the right track. There are so

many teachers that do not inspire their students to be or do anything at all.

At the same time, because you do have to keep your husband's insecuritys in

mind, try to include him and your children in everything you can. Then if he or

they choose not to be included they have no one to blame except themselves.

Perhaps this would be a compromise that he could live with? Do you think that he

would feel this would be a fair compromise since it would be including his

feelings? Would it hurt things to propose this?

Life can always be a little more fair than it is if you can compromise to get a

little more of what you want or need, and the other person to do the same. Other

wise it really sucks eggs right from the shell.

Debbie

Re: Double Standard

Dan,

I really needed to hear a man's point of view here. I do respect his

hurts. I just didn't realize until yesterday how bad it was. In my

mind, I am sooooo faithful to him, there is no way he can think

otherwise, but that's not how it works.

My husband doesn't want me to have anything to do with Josh or any of

my other former students, so I won't out of respect for his

feelings. He sees it as I'm putting my students before my family

like I was before. I see it as I was doing for the students what I

couldn't do for myself. I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on

this and it's not worth losing my marriage over to me. So the

students have to go. I don't see or talk to them very often, but

everytime I do, something like this happens. Josh came home on leave

from the marines and decided to call me, and my whole life goes to

hell in a handbasket. As much as I like and respect the kid, he's

not worth all this grief. He'll be fine without me. I won't be fine

without Ken in my life. I love him and need him, so the choice is an

easy one. I just think it's very unfair that I have to make that

choice. But then, whoever said life was fair?

Thanks!

Tammy

> << He was really traumatized by his ex-wife's infidelity. I'm

going

> to talk to him about it tonight when he gets home. Wish me luck,

I'm

> going to need it! >>

>

> Good going, Tammy, here's luck to you. Please respect your

husband's

> hurts. I too was traumatized by my ex-wife's infidelity, among

other

> things. I have felt that my wife just sees that as another wound,

> and she figures that if an animal is too badly wounded you shoot it.

>

> My deepest fears are abandonment. I feel abandoned by my parents,

my

> teachers, my ex-wife, and the democracy I used to believe in. My

> wife started seeing a therapist. She thinks it is to evaluate how

> crazy I am, but I think the therapist has seen through that. The

> therapist advised her that it might not be a good idea to leave me

> for the next school year, because it seems I am making some

progress

> with the new medication. That means I am less likely to go through

> with a surgical solution to the body integrity problem. That means

I

> should be abandoned if I am at risk of doing the surgical

solution.

> My fear of abandonment increases the body integrity problem. It is

a

> vicious circle.

>

> If I were in your husband's place, and you said you would only see

> Josh together with him, it wouldn't be too threatening. If you

> suggest that and your husband doesn't want to see Josh at all,

don't

> push it, it is his right.

>

> - Dan

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com