Guest guest Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Thats easy for you to say, because its unimportant to you even if you did make me laugh by that statement. I prefer my life to be neat and organized in every way possible. Chaos is not my best friend and I hate that little devil. I lived in chaos in my childhood and I cannot handle it now. It highly disturbs me and throws me into the past where I always got the fire end of the stick. Call it an inner panic, if you will. It causes the same reaction as it did when I was a kid and my gut gets twisted all in a knot and I feel like I am going to lose something. Debbie K. Being organized Personally, I don't consider it a goal to be organized. Being organized is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it is a waste of time and it annoys the pig. - Dan Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to: http://www.BPDCentral.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 1 of the best things that has helped me 2 b not like nada is 2b a bit more organized and structured. i have 2 watch it though so as 2 not b ocd about it and make order an ends rather than a means -meaning it is a means to a bit more sanity and yet things will of course get frazzled and disorganized such as when you give birth and have surgery and no time to b as tidy as b4. u roll w/the punches knowing its not the past nada chaos, but normal people's entropy- big difference. my 2 cents kere > Thats easy for you to say, because its unimportant to you even if you did make me laugh by that statement. I prefer my life to be neat and organized in every way possible. Chaos is not my best friend and I hate that little devil. I lived in chaos in my childhood and I cannot handle it now. It highly disturbs me and throws me into the past where I always got the fire end of the stick. Call it an inner panic, if you will. It causes the same reaction as it did when I was a kid and my gut gets twisted all in a knot and I feel like I am going to lose something. > Debbie K. > Being organized > > > Personally, I don't consider it a goal to be organized. Being > organized is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it is a waste of > time and it annoys the pig. > > - Dan > > > > > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to: > http://www.BPDCentral.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Debbie, My abhorrence for organization comes from Nada. She is compulsive about neatness. When I was a kid I sometimes spent my entire weekend in my room doing nothing because she wouldn't let me out until I cleaned it to her satisfaction, which was impossible. I am not absolutely totally disorganized, but any attempt to get organized really triggers me. Sounds like your Nada was at the opposite extreme, and we are both triggered by what Nada wanted. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 > Personally, I don't consider it a goal to be organized. Being > organized is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it is a waste of > time and it annoys the pig. > > - Dan Good one! I'll have to think about that for a while. I know this pig is REALLY annoyed by it. By the way, I can't sing. lol! Tammy well on my way to BTDTGTTSATH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 I have to say that we are in 100 % agreement on this. I feel for what you went through as a child. My Step-adopted dad had grounded me so much that I would not have seen the light of day until I was 18 or older. And I was only 12 years old. Of course this only applied to when it was convenient to them. So.. I would wait until mother was sleeping in and go in and ask her if I could go to my friends house next door. I wouldn' t leave her alone until she said yes. She would have said yes to anything I wanted to do even if it was to set fire to the house as long as I left her alone to sleep some more. I asked her if she was awake. When she actually got out of the bed she was mad at me and told me I should have waited until she woke up. I reminded her that she had said that she was awake. She had no recollection of it, but my sisters backed me up on it. My step adopted dad got mad about it, but he gave her hell and not me. I think those times are the only ones I didn't get a beating for doing something. Now, I have had to lower my standards somewhat with my kids. I read books so that I wouldn't screw up too badly with my kids. The books told me to let them have their room their way and just shut the door. So I do. But about once a week I can't stand it anymore. I make them pick up their room, sweep the floors and make their beds. Once in a while I insist they mop their rooms. I do insist that they keep their drawers in a certain manner, and I do insist they keep their clean clothes up off the floor and put up. But I don't always look under their beds or behind their curtains. I don't want to know whats under there. Since we live in a very old house out in the country the roaches do come in out of the weather. If the roaches get into their rooms, they will clean it without me saying a word. Its called the law of natural consequences and I love that Law. It works for me and not against me. Debbie K. Re: Being organized Debbie, My abhorrence for organization comes from Nada. She is compulsive about neatness. When I was a kid I sometimes spent my entire weekend in my room doing nothing because she wouldn't let me out until I cleaned it to her satisfaction, which was impossible. I am not absolutely totally disorganized, but any attempt to get organized really triggers me. Sounds like your Nada was at the opposite extreme, and we are both triggered by what Nada wanted. - Dan Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to: http://www.BPDCentral.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Debbie, My mom would stay up all night with her boyfriend and crash as soon as she came home from work. It was the opportune time to ask for something because she was too tired to get mad about it. I read an excellent book years ago about the virtues of 'natural consequences' for kids. I learned not to make a rule about things unless it becomes a problem and that it's okay to have different rules for different kids (posted on the fridge) if necessary, because all kids don't have the same problems. For instance, I had to severely limit my daughter on video games, TV, and the computer because she would spend all her time doing those things - sometimes all night if she thought she could get away with it (My husband is a lighter sleeper than I am and he would wake up at 3:00 a.m. and she would be text messaging on the computer). So, I made a rule limiting her to one hour a day for all three. If she broke the rule, she lost the privilege for one day for every 5 minutes she went over her time limit. It worked until she was about 16, then it got really bad, but that's another story. I don't have that problem at all with my son. He varies his activities very well on his own, so I don't limit him. He has several friends whose parents won't let them play video games during the week - only on weekends. He thought that was ludicrous until I explained to him that maybe for his friends, it was a problem. He hadn't thought of that. I think considering your background, you are doing a great job with the kids. BTW, I checked out Flylady - it's worth a look. I had to sit and do some self-therapy before I could commit myself to trying it. Too many old tapes want to interfere. Gotta go, time to shine the sink!lol! Tammy > I have to say that we are in 100 % agreement on this. I feel for what you went through as a child. My Step-adopted dad had grounded me so much that I would not have seen the light of day until I was 18 or older. And I was only 12 years old. Of course this only applied to when it was convenient to them. So.. I would wait until mother was sleeping in and go in and ask her if I could go to my friends house next door. I wouldn' t leave her alone until she said yes. She would have said yes to anything I wanted to do even if it was to set fire to the house as long as I left her alone to sleep some more. I asked her if she was awake. When she actually got out of the bed she was mad at me and told me I should have waited until she woke up. I reminded her that she had said that she was awake. She had no recollection of it, but my sisters backed me up on it. My step adopted dad got mad about it, but he gave her hell and not me. I think those times are the only ones I didn't get a beating for doing something. > Now, I have had to lower my standards somewhat with my kids. I read books so that I wouldn't screw up too badly with my kids. The books told me to let them have their room their way and just shut the door. So I do. But about once a week I can't stand it anymore. I make them pick up their room, sweep the floors and make their beds. Once in a while I insist they mop their rooms. I do insist that they keep their drawers in a certain manner, and I do insist they keep their clean clothes up off the floor and put up. But I don't always look under their beds or behind their curtains. I don't want to know whats under there. Since we live in a very old house out in the country the roaches do come in out of the weather. If the roaches get into their rooms, they will clean it without me saying a word. Its called the law of natural consequences and I love that Law. It works for me and not against me. > Debbie K. > Re: Being organized > > > Debbie, > > My abhorrence for organization comes from Nada. She is compulsive > about neatness. When I was a kid I sometimes spent my entire > weekend in my room doing nothing because she wouldn't let me out > until I cleaned it to her satisfaction, which was impossible. > > I am not absolutely totally disorganized, but any attempt to get > organized really triggers me. > > Sounds like your Nada was at the opposite extreme, and we are both > triggered by what Nada wanted. > > - Dan > > > > > Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner > " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to: > http://www.BPDCentral.com > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Tammy, I think the quote about teaching a pig to sing came from Mark Twain. I am serious about learning to sing (it beats the heck out of trying to be organized). I have been in our Baha'i choir for several months, but it is mainly social and half of us can't hold a tune. I just joined a large choir which is working up a very difficult piece (Misa Tango by Bacalov). It will be a lot of work to come up to their standard, but it is part of my recovery too. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 << For instance, I had to severely limit my daughter on video games, TV, and the computer because she would spend all her time doing those things - sometimes all night if she thought she could get away with it >> Tammy, this one is an example of " choose your battles " for me. My stepson spends almost all day and night glued to the TV or the computer, when he isn't at school. He does manage to find enough time for homework. My wife and I agreed with him to limit the time but she refuses to say anything to him about it and I am not going to give her another chance to say that I am rigid controlling person. When I see him doing much, much less physically than I did when I had a broken leg, it doesn't help my body identity problem at all. But the new medication seems to be helping on that, I could be seeing the light at the end of that tunnel now. (If it is a train it will take care of the problem anyhow.) - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I agree with what you have said, Jean. I would add to the tools to help you: calendar (duplicate schedule for Dr. Reminder, tickler or whatever you wanna call it. A. Eads, M.D. Pinnacle Family Medicine, PLLC phone fax P.O. Box 7275 Woodland Park, CO 80863 www.PinnacleFamilyMedicine.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Jean Antonucci Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 8:07 PM To: practiceimprovement1 Subject: being organized new thread would like to hear opinions today on a call someone talked about how organization was not her strong suit I get home and there is an email to me form someone else who says the same thing One person says this l eads to low self esteem " I just cannot get my work done " Yikes docs doing good work who i do not measure up to and they have low self esteem...! So i ask my husband , who is like NOT remotely organizationally inclined shall we say, but he is a doc I would like to hear from others what useful tools work to keep the naturally unorganized among you on track? Ideas i have heard so far - make lists - use various tools to help you-- call yourslef / email yourslef - delegate and forget about it with only spot chekc - be flexible in what you think organization is ( eg AM huddle withe satff vs do it for the next day at 5 pm if that works better) other suggestions? Jean(highly organized ) -- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/ please note the new email address. Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Jean: Maslow's hierarchy is a great framework to use- here is a wiki link that does a nice job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow_hierarchy_of_needs One example of applying it in our goal to help patients ... a patient is unlikely to work on losing weight (which they perceive as a self esteem issue) per our advice, if they have not achieved the security of a steady job or secure housing. Re: organization... I love this topic- so often I feel like I am on the precipice of being organized, and then I'm knocked back down the mountain on the wrong side. But here are some ideas. I think what you are asking is not so much what do organized people do but what process should someone like me use? The FlyLady is a website that helps folks become organized housekeepers... much of the advice applies... start small (clean your kitchen sink every night before bed)... the equivalent would be clean off the top of your desk daily (after probably spending a saturday to get it clean in the first place)... but ONLY work on establishing that one habit for an entire 30 days before tackling anything else. Then do other tasks that are overwhelming in small bites- I've applied this to my piled up dictation which I"ve whittled down and completed. First, I decided to work on just finishing each day's dictation on the day of the visit. This is now the cardinal rule so I never am getting farther behind. Second, I would decide to do a set number of backlogged dictations that did not seem overwhelming... perhaps 3-5 at a time, or if I had lots of time, would set one hour to spend on backlogged dictation. Break it up in small chunks. I have only a small backlog left in this process and its working. My next step is to work towards having my dictation done for 80% of my patients by the time they walk out of the exam room. How to decide what to do when there is too much to do? Put your effort into improving the processes that take too much of your time... remember the 80-20 rule... 20% of your work takes 80% of your time. Look at what tends to backlog or take too much of your time and revise, evaluate, revise, evaluate your process. When 20% of your work is now streamlined, it may only take 40% of your time and you have that "left over time" to enjoy or apply to your other backlogged work in the same way. Whining that you can't let any tasks wait is silly because so many of them are already falling through the cracks (I used to whine that I had so much to do I couldn't take the time to get organized... I sounded like my patients who tell me they cannot exercise becasue they have no time). It is a choice and it can change your life for the better! Lastly, I can be productive but I am also a terrible procrastinator. I hate to admit that I have delayed calling folks back- either because I just don't enjoy talking to certain patients or because I wasn't quite certain what my plan should be for them.. But I have learned now to make those calls the first ones I do.. usually the plan is clear once I begin talking to them and clarify a little more (and wow- that takes less than 5 minutes but the time I would spend looking at their message, flipping through their electronic chart would drag me down and add to the backlog). And even the patients I don't love talking to aren't so bad... particularly using someone's tip for the list about prefacing the call by telling them you have only 5 minutes to talk between patients. Carla Gibson Um Doesn't this fall under chapter 5 of the How's Your Health book—Problems Are Meant To Be Solved? The problem solving module is not just for our patients but for us as well. In fact, by using the module on ourselves to solve our little dilemmas we can then easily teach our patients how to do it. The cool part is that it is already part of the curriculum. J As for low self esteem…isn't that why many of us went in to medical school and we continue to strive to be high achievers? Sure we can't seem to make it up Mazlow's hierarchy, but we sure are productive little neurotics. By the way, my experience is that "fear of death" also ranks high on the list of unspoken med school motivators. Interestingly, that one seems to fade the older you get even though the self esteem thing persists. Hmmm… [Practiceimprovemen t1] being organized new thread would like to hear opinionstoday on a call someone talked about how organization was not her strong suit I get home and there is an email to me form someone else who says the same thingOne person says this l eads to low self esteem "I just cannot get my work done" Yikes docs doing good work who i do not measure up to and they have low self esteem...!So i ask my husband , who is like NOT remotely organizationally inclined shall we say, but he is a docI would like to hear from others what useful tools work to keep the naturally unorganized among you on track?Ideas i have heard so far - make lists- use various tools to help you-- call yourslef / email yourslef- delegate and forget about it with only spot chekc - be flexible in what you think organization is ( eg AM huddle withe satff vs do it for the next day at 5 pm if that works better) other suggestions?Jean(highly organized )-- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax -- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax -- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 That right there is a GREAT POST... put it in the Hall of Fame. Someone giving clear pointers on what has worked. Funny, each of the points you make, I can nod my head and say, " yep, I know that " or " yes, that's worked for me. " But the challenge continues to be the continuity of the effort to make it a habit.The idea of better streamlining is another example of Covey's Important/NonUrgent work that should be the primary focus of our energies. -- that idea of important/non important and urgent/not urgent does not mean you actually " organize " things like that. Rather, we should listen to our gut and know what fits which category, then actually carry through on it. Covey also talks about blocking times for the most important things (put big stones in the schedule first, then fit the little stones around those).Finally, the point of procrastinating is also a big one for me. It drives me nuts actually. One of the most helpful things for me was reading a good explanation of what often makes us procrastinate, and that has helped me understand myself more so I can more often take the pressure off and just get to the task. PROCRASTINATING often relates to our desire to do something perfectly and we tell ourselves that if we don't have enough time to do something perfectly right now, we have to put it off to when we will have the time... but we never have the time because other things (that we also want to do perfectly) get in the way! Basically, it's another example of " pefect being the enemy of good! " So, understanding that better has been helpful in my battle with procrastinating... but the struggle rages on! ;-)TimOn Wed, December 3, 2008 11:28 am EST, Carla Gibson wrote: Jean: Maslow's hierarchy is a great framework to use- here is a wiki link that does a nice job: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow_hierarchy_of_needs One example of applying it in our goal to help patients ... a patient is unlikely to work on losing weight (which they perceive as a self esteem issue) per our advice, if they have not achieved the security of a steady job or secure housing. Re: organization... I love this topic- so often I feel like I am on the precipice of being organized, and then I'm knocked back down the mountain on the wrong side. But here are some ideas. I think what you are asking is not so much what do organized people do but what process should someone like me use? The FlyLady is a website that helps folks become organized housekeepers... much of the advice applies... start small (clean your kitchen sink every night before bed)... the equivalent would be clean off the top of your desk daily (after probably spending a saturday to get it clean in the first place)... but ONLY work on establishing that one habit for an entire 30 days before tackling anything else. Then do other tasks that are overwhelming in small bites- I've applied this to my piled up dictation which I " ve whittled down and completed. First, I decided to work on just finishing each day's dictation on the day of the visit. This is now the cardinal rule so I never am getting farther behind. Second, I would decide to do a set number of backlogged dictations that did not seem overwhelming... perhaps 3-5 at a time, or if I had lots of time, would set one hour to spend on backlogged dictation. Break it up in small chunks. I have only a small backlog left in this process and its working. My next step is to work towards having my dictation done for 80% of my patients by the time they walk out of the exam room. How to decide what to do when there is too much to do? Put your effort into improving the processes that take too much of your time... remember the 80-20 rule... 20% of your work takes 80% of your time. Look at what tends to backlog or take too much of your time and revise, evaluate, revise, evaluate your process. When 20% of your work is now streamlined, it may only take 40% of your time and you have that " left over time " to enjoy or apply to your other backlogged work in the same way. Whining that you can't let any tasks wait is silly because so many of them are already falling through the cracks (I used to whine that I had so much to do I couldn't take the time to get organized... I sounded like my patients who tell me they cannot exercise becasue they have no time). It is a choice and it can change your life for the better! Lastly, I can be productive but I am also a terrible procrastinator. I hate to admit that I have delayed calling folks back- either because I just don't enjoy talking to certain patients or because I wasn't quite certain what my plan should be for them.. But I have learned now to make those calls the first ones I do.. usually the plan is clear once I begin talking to them and clarify a little more (and wow- that takes less than 5 minutes but the time I would spend looking at their message, flipping through their electronic chart would drag me down and add to the backlog). And even the patients I don't love talking to aren't so bad... particularly using someone's tip for the list about prefacing the call by telling them you have only 5 minutes to talk between patients. Carla Gibson Um Doesn't this fall under chapter 5 of the How's Your Health book—Problems Are Meant To Be Solved? The problem solving module is not just for our patients but for us as well. In fact, by using the module on ourselves to solve our little dilemmas we can then easily teach our patients how to do it. The cool part is that it is already part of the curriculum. J As for low self esteem…isn't that why many of us went in to medical school and we continue to strive to be high achievers? Sure we can't seem to make it up Mazlow's hierarchy, but we sure are productive little neurotics. By the way, my experience is that " fear of death " also ranks high on the list of unspoken med school motivators. Interestingly, that one seems to fade the older you get even though the self esteem thing persists. Hmmm… [Practiceimprovemen t1] being organized new thread would like to hear opinionstoday on a call someone talked about how organization was not her strong suit I get home and there is an email to me form someone else who says the same thingOne person says this l eads to low self esteem " I just cannot get my work done " Yikes docs doing good work who i do not measure up to and they have low self esteem...!So i ask my husband , who is like NOT remotely organizationally inclined shall we say, but he is a docI would like to hear from others what useful tools work to keep the naturally unorganized among you on track?Ideas i have heard so far - make lists- use various tools to help you-- call yourslef / email yourslef- delegate and forget about it with only spot chekc - be flexible in what you think organization is ( eg AM huddle withe satff vs do it for the next day at 5 pm if that works better) other suggestions?Jean(highly organized )-- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax -- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD Farmington ME 04938 ph fax -- If you are a patient please allow up to 12 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD Farmington ME 04938 ph fax ---------------------------------------- Malia, MDMalia Family Medicine & Skin Sense Laser6720 Pittsford-Palmyra Rd.Perinton Square MallFairport, NY 14450 (phone / fax)www.relayhealth.com/doc/DrMaliawww.SkinSenseLaser.com-- Confidentiality Notice --This email message, including all the attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contains confidential information. Unauthorized use or disclosure is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, disclose, copy or disseminate this information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message, including attachments.---------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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