Re: Communicating

[Guest guest]

I believe that you expressed yourself very well in this email. You stated an

opinion about yourself. I too have had the communication problem just like you.

I had to realize that some people just aren't worth giving my opinion to as its

a waste of breath. Then there are those you can discuss everything except

religion with, then there are those who like to discuss the issues as it helps

them to confirm what they believe and if someone can convince them that they are

incorrect they are all to ready to change that opinion. Its ok to have an

opinion about everything.

I was afraid that my email concerning my statement about christians and fanatics

would be taken wrong. I apologized in the email because I was afraid of how it

would be recieved. I do not like to argue, It makes me physically ill to my

stomach. At the same time I meant no offense. I only wanted to point out that

people are like the english language. There are always exceptions to the Norms.

It is hard to know how to proceed many times in an email. You just have to take

a chance. I try to believe that everyone is like myself, I try to look behind

what the person is saying or what type of a person they are. That is hard to do

when you cannot see the body language. As in Dan's Case when he mentioned the

child abuse issue. I could see that this was something that he felt very

strongly about. As such, I know that he is a caring and passionate person.

Therefore his intentions are great and admirable. But as always, some things

don't follow the norm. They certainly haven't in my dealings with CPS. I too

care about the issue but I choose to take the opposite stand. That does't mean

that I should attack him. His opinion and experiences are just as valid as mine.

I am just glad that he also did not feel the need to attack and instead chose to

explain. Communication in person is more difficult for me. I become tongue tied,

my mind goes blank, and I stand there feeling like an idiot a lot of the time. I

cannot talk to people without a cigarette in my hand. Its my security blanket.

Otherwise I would sit there wringing my hands and not knowing what to do with

them. As a kid I kept my hands behind my back when I was spoken to by my parents

.. As an adult this is a vulnerable position to me and I won't do it. I guess it

comes from being slapped in the face so much as a child for expressing an

opinion. I feel safer over the internet as you cannot see my face or my body,

You can attack me verbally, but you cannot attack me physically. Therefore I am

safer. This is just an example " You " could actually mean anyone. I was also

forced to look at my parents faces the whole time I was being lectured. I will

not look anyone in the eyes when I am communicating with them. I may scan their

faces and their eyes as part of the whole. I guess that I am afraid of seeing

hatred or something in them. Communication is very difficult for many people for

many different reasons. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and be very

careful with what you say and how you say it. Most people respond better to " I

feel " statements than to " You _____ " statements. I read a lot of psychology

books and have from my early 20's. It has helped me a lot. I am afraid of

recommending any authors of them as most of them were religious in nature and a

lot of people take it as shoving religion (i.e. christianity) down their

throats.

Debbie k.

Communicating

I need some helpful links on communicating!!

I am nearly incapable of having a normal conversation with people,

because my mind races and I feel put on the spot when I'm asked my

opinion about something, and I almost always am incredibly scripted

(I know what I'm going to say before I say it), and I just do not, I

guess, feel incredibly " safe " when I'm around people. I am always on

guard about what I say, because I learned early on that you NEED to

say what other people want to hear, not due to codependency urges to

please, but in order to protect yourself. It's like an automatic

thing for me. Must.. protect.. self. Must.. censor.. self. Do not

have your own thoughts, opinions, or needs. It's not acceptable.

That said, I realize it's a problem, and something I have been trying

to address in therapy. But there is another problem, and that is

EMAIL. Remove me from actual contact with a person, where I have no

way of " reading " their body language or voice to try and concern

myself with what it is they want me to say or how " safe " it is to be

honest, and I'm like... TERRIBLE. Seriously, I sometimes feel if I

weren't so afraid of what would happen if I was honest, I would

probably be a really awful person. I find myself shooting off emails

to people, sometimes pretty foolishly, and then banging my head

(figuratively) against the wall not believing I actually did that.

One, I feel too uncensored. Two, I feel like a hypocrite because I

would normally faint before being so open with someone. Three, I can

never tell if I went overboard or not, and I don't know when to do

damage control or when to let something go. It's sort of like with my

other email, about apologizing, I cannot predict when it's " too

much " . I think everything is too much.

I kind of think I should stay away from email, but at the same time I

do accomplish quite a bit by using it. Every now and then it causes

some problems, but it's my way of being able to ask for things that I

wouldn't otherwise be able to ask for, things that aren't terrible to

want or need, things I do want and need, but it also makes it easier

to be impulsive and reactive.

So I think if I learned how to improve actual verbal communication,

then maybe I wouldn't be able to use email as the crutch. I just

really do not know how to talk to people!! It's unbelievably

ridiculous...

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

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[Guest guest]

> was also forced to look at my parents faces the whole time

>I was being lectured. I will not look anyone in the eyes

>when I am communicating with them. I may scan their faces

>and their eyes as part of the whole. I guess that I am afraid

>of seeing hatred or something in them.

And this way of communication I'm sure is very misleading or

confusing to other people, because as Dr Phil says, something like

85% of communication is body language. I really believe that for

people like us, it's not 85% body language, and it makes it very

difficult for people to understand what we're trying to say or how

we're feeling. It's like that mask we sometimes comment about here.

I find that to be very, very safe, for people to not really " know " ,

and it's DISTURBING to me when someone sees through it, because it's

a really naked feeling. Anyway, I have tried in the past to read up

on body language and be conscious of myself in conversations, but

it's a very very big effort, and normally I just can't be that

aware. I'd say about 5% of my body language actually communicates

what I'm thinking/feeling. It's no wonder sometimes I feel truly

FAKE.

[Guest guest]

Scout,

Here is a link to a neat little book. (you can download it for free!)

I think communication is something you also have to take baby steps

in...

I know I really had trouble expressing my wants. When took a class

where we had to set a goal - the instructor kept asking me " What do

you want. "

My response was " I wa............... "

I couldn't even get myself to SAY the word WANT.

So I practiced saying that. Even things as simple as using the word

when ordering in a restaurant " I WANT a cheeseburger.. " until I could

get used to SAYING it...

So then when he asked me - I had my response - " I want to be free... "

He said - " Yes. We all want that - but what do you really want? "

ARGH!!!

(But he was wanting me to set a goal that was LESS than being free -

not more than that....He didn't think " being free " was a " real "

goal...)

I wonder do you just censor what you SAY - or do you also censor your

thoughts?

You might want to start with just telling YOURSELF what you want to

say...Telling YOURSELF what you think, how you feel, etc.

And when you feel SAFE telling yourself those things (and don't

recieve an argument from yourself) - then start venturing out with

tiny steps expressing yourself more with other people.

One of the most helpful things I have found in our current textbook

is the concept of " descriptiveness "

1. Describe what happened.

2. Describe how you feel.

3. Tell how that relates to the other person.

Many women generally SKIP the third step. We get where we can tell

people what happened and how we feel... but assume they should

automatically know what we want them to do about it..

So we can say:

1. My boss yelled at me at work ..blah.blah..blah..

2. I feel hurt and agitated..blah..blah..blah..

But we usually stop at that.

If we ADD step 3

I just need you to listen OR

I need to unwind OR

I want your support OR

I need some time alone OR

I want to go out OR

I want to stay home OR

I need your advice OR

I can't take any more advice right now

whatever....

It can be very helpful to the other person in knowing how to respond

to us...

However, one of our problems is that we often don't know what the

answer to step three is ourselves...

So it can be a good thing to practice...

Free

> I need some helpful links on communicating!!

>

> I am nearly incapable of having a normal conversation with people,

> because my mind races and I feel put on the spot when I'm asked my

> opinion about something, and I almost always am incredibly scripted

> (I know what I'm going to say before I say it), and I just do not,

I

> guess, feel incredibly " safe " when I'm around people. I am always

on

> guard about what I say, because I learned early on that you NEED to

> say what other people want to hear, not due to codependency urges

to

> please, but in order to protect yourself. It's like an automatic

> thing for me. Must.. protect.. self. Must.. censor.. self. Do

not

> have your own thoughts, opinions, or needs. It's not acceptable.

>

> That said, I realize it's a problem, and something I have been

trying

> to address in therapy. But there is another problem, and that is

> EMAIL. Remove me from actual contact with a person, where I have

no

> way of " reading " their body language or voice to try and concern

> myself with what it is they want me to say or how " safe " it is to

be

> honest, and I'm like... TERRIBLE. Seriously, I sometimes feel if I

> weren't so afraid of what would happen if I was honest, I would

> probably be a really awful person. I find myself shooting off

emails

> to people, sometimes pretty foolishly, and then banging my head

> (figuratively) against the wall not believing I actually did that.

> One, I feel too uncensored. Two, I feel like a hypocrite because I

> would normally faint before being so open with someone. Three, I

can

> never tell if I went overboard or not, and I don't know when to do

> damage control or when to let something go. It's sort of like with

my

> other email, about apologizing, I cannot predict when it's " too

> much " . I think everything is too much.

>

> I kind of think I should stay away from email, but at the same time

I

> do accomplish quite a bit by using it. Every now and then it

causes

> some problems, but it's my way of being able to ask for things that

I

> wouldn't otherwise be able to ask for, things that aren't terrible

to

> want or need, things I do want and need, but it also makes it

easier

> to be impulsive and reactive.

>

> So I think if I learned how to improve actual verbal communication,

> then maybe I wouldn't be able to use email as the crutch. I just

> really do not know how to talk to people!! It's unbelievably

> ridiculous...

>

> Thanks for listening to me ramble.

[Guest guest]

Ahhhhhh

When our body language and what we are saying don't match - people

will listen to our body language. Even if they can't actually " read "

it - they can pick up on the " mixed message " - the incongruence. They

might not even consciously know exactly what it is - but just have

the feeling that something is not " quite right. "

Again - if you are used to controlling the nonverbals - it would be

good to practice letting your nonverbals (voice, tone, facial

expressions, gestures, etc. ) speak for you - taking tiny steps -

until you feel comfortable with it with YOURSELF - before trying to

incorpate it much in your communication with other people.

I seem to be one of those people whose body speaks FOR me. I've had

teachers call on me when I had a question - without even rasing my

hand, or knowingly indicating I had a question.

I told one teacher - " I didn't raise my hand.' He told me " Your face

raises your hand for you.. "

Free

> > was also forced to look at my parents faces the whole time

> >I was being lectured. I will not look anyone in the eyes

> >when I am communicating with them. I may scan their faces

> >and their eyes as part of the whole. I guess that I am afraid

> >of seeing hatred or something in them.

>

> And this way of communication I'm sure is very misleading or

> confusing to other people, because as Dr Phil says, something like

> 85% of communication is body language. I really believe that for

> people like us, it's not 85% body language, and it makes it very

> difficult for people to understand what we're trying to say or how

> we're feeling. It's like that mask we sometimes comment about

here.

> I find that to be very, very safe, for people to not really " know " ,

> and it's DISTURBING to me when someone sees through it, because

it's

> a really naked feeling. Anyway, I have tried in the past to read

up

> on body language and be conscious of myself in conversations, but

> it's a very very big effort, and normally I just can't be that

> aware. I'd say about 5% of my body language actually communicates

> what I'm thinking/feeling. It's no wonder sometimes I feel truly

> FAKE.