Re: trihalomethanes & haloacetic acids

[Guest guest]

On 2010-07-26 6:54 AM, fiordean dacian <dfiordean@...> wrote:

> As one of the potential problems (side effects) of using chlorine

> dioxide for water purification is the formation of THM (trihalomethanes)

> and HCA (haloacetic acids) which are carcinogenic in large quantities.

If you are using pure water to make your MMS (which if you aren't, why

not), then this should be a non-issue.

As for whether or not this is an issue wrt 'ordinary tap water', I'm

curious to see what Tom says...

[Guest guest]

Hello Dacian,

Water purification is done using chlorine dioxide technology.

MMS involves acidified sodium chlorite technology.

They are different.

When chlorine is used to disinfect water, the chlorine attaches itself to the

particles in the water and form THM and HCA by products. When chlorine dioxide

is used to disinfect water, it is selective in that it does not attach itself to

the particles in the water. It does react with them, but does not attach itself

to them. The by product formed is chlorite. While it is possible for some THM

and HCA to form, the amount is small enough to be considered insignificant.

In a closed water system, chlorine dioxide lasts a long time. In water systems,

testing is done to make sure there is a residual of chlorine dioxide at the

point furthest from the point of treatment. As long as there is residual

chlorine dioxide, the water remains disinfected.

Tom

>

> Hello group

>

> As one of the potential problems (side effects) of using chlorine dioxide for

water purification is the formation of THM (trihalomethanes) and HCA (haloacetic

acids) which are carcinogenic in large quantities.

>

> From wikipedia

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification

>

> But then I search the previous posts here on thrihalomethanes and found this

study published here which says MMS realeases no thrihalomethanes when 30 to 60

drops are added to the water.

> /message/1861

>

> Now maybe both statements are true, but wikipedia says " carcinogenic " in large

quantities. What is large quantities, can anyone help? Or is wikipedia wrong (it

gives no reference to a study on this).

>

> Btw, has anyone drink water purified using MMS for large periods of time? Is

there any benefit after 2 hours of the release of chlorine dioxide by the

activation of sodium chlorite? I read on Jim Humble's protocol that chlorine

dioxide will be available after ingestide for 1/2 hours, not more. So if I

purify my water, will it stay pure after 1/2 hours? I assume not, bacteria and

parasites will have no problem starting to live in there, right?

>

> thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Dacian,

No, that is not correct.

Chlorine dioxide technology involves introducing chlorine dioxide (only) into

water to purify it.

Acidified sodium chlorite involves generating chlorous acid. Some of the

chlorous acid will break down and form small amounts of chlorine dioxide, but

the bulk of the solution is chlorous acid.

Some examples:

A 6 drop dose of MMS used in chlorine dioxide technology will have 380 PPM free

chlorine dioxide in it. However, the same 6 drop dose used in acidified sodium

chlorite technology will have 380 PPM available chlorine dioxide in the form of

chlorous acid, and only about 38 PPM as free chlorine dioxide.

Looking at this from a water purification perspective we need free chlorine

dioxide and we need to minimize chlorite to purify the water for drinking. In

the first case we can purify 253 liters of water, after proper filtering, and

still have acceptable chlorite levels. In the second case we can only purify 25

liters of water, and the chlorite by products will be over 10 times higher than

what is allowed.

Chlorous acid is used to stabilize the growth of pathogens. The free chlorine

dioxide in the solution can kill some off, but the design of the acid is to keep

them from multiplying to a point where they spoil the food. In contrast,

chlorine dioxide is designed to kill pathogens. However, it is very unstable,

and there are a lot of engineering controls that have to be put into place in

order for it to be effective. If you spray some chlorine dioxide on food, it

will kill the pathogens, but unless you tightly control the air around the food,

it will quickly be overrun with pathogens again. Chlorine dioxide is very

effective on hard surfaces, and in areas where the concentration is closely

controlled. Soft surfaces provide lots of area that uses up the chlorine

dioxide, and much higher concentrations need to be used. The problem with high

concentrations is that chlorine dioxide bleaches, and is dangerous to handle.

To purify water, we need to kill the pathogens so chlorine dioxide is used. To

store water over an extended period of time after it has been purified, we just

have to keep everything stable so this is where chlorous acid comes in.

You may want to re-read the wikipedia article. When I read it I find:

" ...Its most common use in water treatment is as a pre-oxidant prior to

chlorination of drinking water to destroy natural water impurities that produce

trihalomethanes on exposure to free chlorine... "

Tom

>

> Hello Tom, thanks for you post.

>

> " Water purification is done using chlorine dioxide technology. "

> Got that.

>

>

> " MMS involves acidified sodium chlorite technology. "

> which releases chlorine dioxide, right? So after 3 minutes of actiovation of

sodium chlorite we end up with chlorine dioxide in there, correct?

>

> It looks to me we have the same thing here; I'm not talking about chlorine,

I'm talking about chlorine dioxide; wikipedia explicitely mentions chlorine

dioxide when it says it produces THM and HCA in water.

>

> thanks.

>