Re: Fw: Jim Humble's FDA Response

[Guest guest]

Well,

thanks for posting this. I see the ‘training’ has gone from

750 first week to 1000. Second week has gone from 250 to 500. The home

study course that was going to be 150 is now 350. To join the church was

10 but now 20, all in one month. Man, that is some inflation. Must be the

third world economy thing.

In

July reported 26 class members. no report for august but um, looks like a

small group. Why is this not catching on??? It could save the world…

We heal 98% of the diseases

of mankind.

They leave here with the

ability to heal more than 95% of the ills of mankind.

So

when do I learn to heal the other 3%???

I

am really so surprised with all the discussion of a more reasoned nature that

is happening here (finally) that this kind of thing would still be posted.

Just

surprised…that’s all

[Guest guest]

I invite everyone to take a look at the Lubbers study that Jim Humble

referenced. He seems to indicate that this study proves that MMS is safe for

everyone to take.

Let me point out that pure chlorine dioxide for laboratory use is made according

to Method II in this document.

http://www.oxy.com/Our_Businesses/chemicals/Documents/sodium_chlorite/technicalD\

ata/Laboratory%20Preparations%20of%20Chlorine%20Dioxide%20Solutions.pdf

Is that the same method that Jim Humble uses with MMS?

Next, how many drops of MMS do you think they used per dose in the study...

They were using a 5 PPM solution and in 1 liter of water that would work out to

about 1/2 drop of MMS.

As you can see, the similarities between the Lubbers study and the MMS protocol

are NONE. I might also point out that the Lubbers study was not a double blind

study, and it does nothing to prove that the MMS protocol does no harm.

Jim Humble believes that high concentrations of acidified sodium chlorite are

safe because of a study done using chlorine dioxide technology at low

concentrations. There are no studies indicating the safety of humans ingesting

acidified sodium chlorite.

If Jim Humble doesn't understand the difference between chlorine dioxide and

acidified sodium chlorite, what is he going to teach in his classes? Is that

misinformation worth the money spent learning it?

Tom

>

>

>

>

>

> ----- Forwarded Message ----

> From: " MMSnews@... " <MMSnews@...>

> gingerduckett@...

> Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 4:18:25 PM

> Subject: Jim Humble's FDA Response

>

>

>  

>

>  

>

>

>

> >Warning

> > FDA-approved drugs cause death

> > 

> >225,000  people died last year after taking one or more drugs approved by

the

> >FDA and prescribed by a doctor.  (Some agencies report a much greater

number;

> >depends upon what agency is reporting.)

> >

> >

> >

> >No, these people do not die as a natural progression of their disease,

whatever

> >it might be. These human beings die as a result of taking prescribed drugs.

The

> >action of the drug kills them.  The drug Vioxx, for example, killed 60,000

> >people before the FDA took it off the market. These death reports are on the

> >internet. Just look them up under “Medical drugs and death.â€

> >

> >

> >The public has brain-washed itself, with the help of endless commercials

> >manipulated by powerful Pharmaceutical interests, into believing that drug

> >deaths are a natural result of illness, and that the deaths are

inevitable. The

> >public so desperately wants to believe that these drugs will work that they

are

> >willing to risk death. The FDA wants to make money so badly that it puts

> >millions of people at risk daily, taking drugs that have caused the death of

> >hundreds of thousands each year.  THESE DEATHS ARE NOT NECESSARY. There is

not a

> >single drug on the market that will heal; they only treat symptoms, and most

> >often ineffectively. Sorry, I've just got to say it, that is murder, plain

and

> >simple.  I must mention that if most people take better care of themselves

by

> >knowing the facts, these astronomical numbers would be significantly reduced

> >overnight.

> >

> >

> >The FDA just recently issued a warning against MMS  

> >

> >They did not conduct tests, refer to the actual chemistry, or consult with

> >experts. Instead, they listened to several reports from individuals who

'thought

> >that they might have had a bad reaction from MMS'. The FDA did nothing more

than

> >respond to these allegations, according to their own report. What about the

> >thousands of reports of benefit from MMS users?

> >

> >What about the National Institute of Health Report done by Judith R. Lubbers,

> >Sudha Chauan, and ph

> >R. Bianchine back in 1982 where, with double blind clinical trials, they

proved

> >that ingesting chlorine dioxide had no ill effects on the human body.  Look

it

> >up yourself.  Click here:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

> >pmc/articles/PMC1569027/pdf/ envhper00463-0059.pdf

> >

> >

> >>More than 5 million people have tried MMS, and it is being used worldwide in

> >>Europe, in Asia, in Africa, and a thousand other places on earth. The FDA

> >>receives a couple of 'iffy' statements from “several†consumers, and now

they

> >>are doing their best to take MMS off of the market!

> >>

> >>Why is that?  Why do you think the FDA wants to remove MMS from the

market?  

> >>

> >>

> >> MMS REPLACES MANY FDA-APPROVED DRUGS! 

> >>

> >>

> >>DO YOU SEE? ALWAYS, ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY!  

> >>

> >>

> >>I DON’T NEED TO GIVE YOU PROOF HERE; THE PROOF IS ALL OVER THE

INTERNET.  SEE

> >>FOR YOURSELVES! LOOK UP JIM HUMBLE, MIRACLE MINERAL SOLUTION, OR JUST

MMS.  IF

> >>YOU WISH TO SEE WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SAYING, GOOGLE EUROPE OR ANY

> >>CONTINENT OR COUNTRY.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Years ago the FDA convinced the public and college students (those are the

> >>easiest to convince) that you need to have double blind and triple blind

tests

> >>in a laboratory and that you needed to start out testing rats to prove that

they

> >>get well first.  By the time you finish with those tests you have spent a

few

> >>hundred million dollars and a few years. And that is the way that they

> >>discourage most others from ever even trying to complete those tests. They

are

> >>extremely expensive, and the prohibitive cost will most often result in a

person

> >>giving up before definitive results are possible.  

> >>

> >>

> >>I proved, in the jungle, in the city, and anywhere people are sick around

the

> >>world, that you don’t have to spend money.  It is only the results that

count. I

> >>know it is ridiculously simple, so much so that it scares me to mention

> >>it. When I needed to prove MMS2 and I had a sick person to treat, I myself

took

> >>a little tiny bit, and then some more, and then more, and when it didn’t

harm

> >>me, I gave it to the sick person to see if it would work. And guess

what? Sick 

> >>               people everywhere got well. When I asked them,

“How are you

> >>feeling " , they told me, “Great.â€Â Do you see? It’s so much easier to

work with

> >>people because they can talk. You can’t ask a rat how he feels and it’s

an

> >>expertise that I don’t have, finding out how a rat feels.

> >>

> >>

> >>So I short circuited the testing program by millions of dollars and many

> >>years. Then, for the fun of it, I asked a few people who were cured of

cancer if

> >>they would rather have risked dying while I performed the correct rat

program

> >>with double blind and triple blind tests. Not one of them would have   

        

> >>    preferred to risk dying while we spent years completing those

tests.  

> >>

> >>

> >>Just so you know, and not to brag at all, I have successfully given more

than

> >>5000 sick people MMS by personally handing the solution to each person. On

the

> >>occasions when I had assistance, I was there on the spot supervising. Also,

I

> >>treated 5000 more suffering humans by email and telephone. I can safely say

at

> >>this point that I have seen more people cured of incurable diseases than

anyone

> >>else has. And I have answered more than 30,000 emails and my secretary a

similar

> >>number.

> >> 

> >>Now let me introduce myself to you once again.  I am

> >>BISHOP JAMES V HUMBLE  of the

> >>Genesis II Church of Health and Healing.

> >>I started the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing for the purpose of

health

> >>and healing. It is legally formed. I was a Bishop first and then I created

the

> >>Church. I started                   a few years ago as a

Minister and eventually

> >>was consecrated as a Bishop in a lineage of Bishops leading back to Christ.

This

> >>church I have formed is not a spiritual church, it is a church of Health and

> >>Healing for Mankind. That’s what we are doing now and that is what we

will be

> >>doing --

> Healing

> That is a legitimate activity for a church.  Our ministers heal as ministers

> should -- at no cost. For free. They depend upon donations to continue their

> Ministry. We don’t try to teach religious truths. We teach healing using

our

> cleansing solution -- the solution that the FDA seeks to remove from the

market.

> And we teach truths related to spiritual and physical healing and personal

> integrity. 

>

> We heal 98% of the diseases of mankind. Again, the evidence is on the

Internet,

> and Bishop Jim (that’s me) has often been in Africa, healing diseases there.

> Most recently, in Africa, I treated 800 HIV/AIDS cases successfully.  You

might

> know that there are no tests to prove that HIV is cured because antibodies for

> the disease will always be present and antibodies are what they test

> for. However, what I did prove was that all of their symptoms were gone and

they

> were back to work. Forty cases of cancer were gone, 50 cases of numb legs and

> feet were gone, 5 heart diseases were gone, a dozen cases of malaria that

> previously wouldn’t go away were now gone, Hepatitus C symptoms were gone,

and

> all these cases were verified by the local hospital. And of course, there were

> several dozen other symptoms caused by HIV that were gone as well. 

>  

> >Please join us and help with this important work! See the links at the

bottom of

> >this page.

> >

> > 

> I made complete records, and I have 750 phone numbers of those cured. I can

make

> some or all of these phone numbers available to anyone wishing to verify the

> actual cures of these people. They all have phones. They are in

Malawi. Most of

> them speak a little English. Hospitals won’t give out data, but most of the

> people speak enough to say how they are feeling. You can call them if you

want,

> but you will need to come here.

>

> Now you can be protected against forced vaccination of yourself and your

> children, and against forced insurance.  That will include dozens of other

> suppressions such as dangerous health-destroying, altered foods that the

> government and companies such as Monsanto are trying to force onto us. We will

> have health food stores in our churches that are not restricted by Codex

> Alimentarious.

>  

> >To join, please see the links at the bottom of this page.

> > 

>  To belong to the Genesis 2 Church:

> > 

> All you have to do is believe in GOOD DEEDS, HEALING, AND ALWAYS DOING WHAT IS

> RIGHT. The Genesis 2 Church will stand between those who want to kill us and

the

> people. As time goes by, it will protect us from gigantic oil spills done on

> purpose, terrorist acts like diseases created in laboratories, vaccinations

that

> destroy the health of children and adults, chemical trails in the sky, altered

> foods of all kinds, laws against home schooling of children, and the US

> government that confiscates 5 billion dollars’ worth of private property

each

> year with no chance of its recovery (See the Civil Forfeiture Act of 2000,

> HR1658) AND OF COURSE, dozens of other evils too numerous            

    to

> mention here.

>

> >

> >Down through the thousands of years, churches have continually claimed that

they

> >are working to save mankind. But we are the first church that can in fact

> >actually heal thousands of people and thousands of diseases. We prove it

> >daily. If you are sick, let us                 heal you for

free. 

> >

> Here's how it might go:

>

> Genesis II Minister: Would you like to be free of your (cancer, malaria, TB,

> HIV)?

> Ill Person: Yes, I would. I’m tired of this pain and disability.

> Genesis II Minister: What would it be worth to you, to be free of it, to be

> healed?

> Ill Person:  In terms of money? A million dollars!

> Genesis II Minister: (grins)  But could you pay a million dollars for your

> healing?

> Ill Person: Oh. Well, no, but I could pay you fifty dollars and I’d be glad

to

> do that if you actually do heal me so I can put my life back together.

> Genesis II Minister: OK, then would you be willing to donate $50 to the

Genesis

> II Church after you’ve been really healed?

> Ill Person: Yes, I would, if my symptoms are gone and I feel good and I can go

> back to work.

> Genesis II Minister: Right. Let’s agree then: I’ll heal you and you donate

$50

> to our Church after you’re healed.

> Ill Person: Yes. It’s a deal.

>

>

> But most important is that you join our church, the 

> >Genesis 2 Church of Health and Healing.

> >

> >

> >If you join our church, you will receive our protection and our beliefs that

you

> >must not be vaccinated and all the other benefits of our Church. We train a

new

> >class of Ministers of Health every 60 days here in the Dominican Republic or

you

> >can choose to take our DVD ministers training course and work at

home. People

> >who take our training become Ministers of Health. They minister health to

the

> >world. Our ministers are the most unusual people that the world has ever

> >seen. They leave here with the ability to heal more than 95% of the ills of

> >mankind. The day will come that a Minister of Health will command a great

deal

> >more respect than a doctor and soon. 

>

> The DVD ministers training course is a home study course and we will make sure

> that you are fully trained before you receive your certificate. We do this by

> our unique training and testing plan. When you receive our test, we will know

by

> your answers if you really know the data. If not, we will continue to train

you

> until you do know it.You can’t fail because we will keep training you until

you

> succeed. (See bottom of page for links)

> >

> Fifty percent of all the net income of the Genesis 2 Church is put into a

> protection fund to hire lawyers and other people to protect our members.  We

> expect to have a really large fund for this purpose and all of the church's

> money of the church is accounted for.  The church is run on a completely

> transparent basis with financial reports to our members. When our protection

> fund is large, governments will not be able to interfere in the rights of our

> people, because we will have the lawyers and other people to insure our

rights.

>

> Our Minister of Health Training Class

> The next training course starts on the 20th of September, and the training

> course after that will be on the 25th of October. The cost of the first week

of

> training is $1000, which includes room and board.  (If you don't have the

money

> and you need a discount in order to come, we will make sure you can afford it.

> Talk to us. You will be surprised.)

>

> The second week of training includes 3 days in the local villages or at a

clinic

> on the Haitian border and this training includes your Doctor of MMS

certificate

> (see below). The cost is $500 for the second week which includes room and

> board.  If you spend at least 3 days helping the people of the villages

(Mark

> will be with) you will also receive a certificate of Doctor of MMS if you pass

> the MMS training course test. You have unlimited time to pass the test. But

you

> must know the data in order to pass the test.

> CERTIFICATES:  These are the certificates that you will receive for

completing

> the training given here:

> >1.      Certificate of Completion of the course.

> >2.      Certificate of Minister of Health  you can use Rev. in front

of your

> >name legally

> >3.     Certificate of Membership in the Church

> >4.   Certificate of Authorization to open your own Chapter of the Church

> >5.   Church Plastic ID Card

> >6.   Those completing the second week of at least 3 days ministering to

the

> >local people will Receive a Doctor of MMS Certificate and you can legally

use

> >Doctor in front of your name or Doctor of MMS after your name.  Also you

can use

> >Rev. Dr. in front of your name. You must also past the questionnaire

> >for MMS training.

> DVD Minister of Health Training Course

> The DVD Minister of Health training course includes all of the above

> certificates when completed. The cost of the course is $350 plus. It

includes

> transcripts of one complete training course, and complete DVDs. However, at

this

> time, all Dr. of MMS                 certificates will be issued

only to those

> who complete the 3 days of treating local villagers. The cost is ½ price for

> those who are taking or have taken the DVD course which is $350. It should be

> done here in the DR, but could also be done in other parts of the world where

> you may live. To qualify, it must be a third world country.

> >Prices PRICES: 

> >DR Training week one  ------------------------- -----------------$1,000

> >DR Training Week two includes DR. MMS Cert. ------$500

> >DVD complete MMS Training (from two seminars) -- you get all certificates

except

> >Doctor (for which you must come to  DR and treat villagers in a third world

> >country) -- $350

> >      Genesis 2 Church Membership with ID card -----------$20

> > 

> >Links

> >To come to the one or two week training course in the Dominican Republic,

please

> >email  gmark777@... or mmsforhispaniola@... 

> >

> >

> >

> >Or you can call Mark Grenon at 1-809439 3698 (country code required from the

> US)

> >

> >

> >For details on the training course, please go

to www.mmstrainingcourse.com  

> >

>         To join our church, please call Mark at the above phone number

or email

> him at gmark777@...

>

> >

> >Jim Humble’s book and DVD -- www.miraclemineral.org

> >

> >

> >If you would like to speak to Jim Humble, please call Mark Grenon at the

above

> >number and ask for Jim’s phone number.  It’s OK.

> Project Green Life (www.projectgreenlife.com/) has opted to bow down to the

FDA 

> and recall all the bottles of MMS that they have ever sold.

> There is no reason for this, as it has already been proved in double blind

tests

> that MMS does no harm.  Hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

> But Project Green Life has chosen to frighten thousands of Americans 

> and other citizens of the world by claiming that they believe what the FDA has

> NOT proved.  

> I am sorry to report this. But people who have saved thousands have now chosen

> to betray them. 

>

> However, the fact still remains that MMS has been used by millions. 

> Hundreds of thousands have improved their health 

> and hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

>  

>  

>

>  

> > 

> > 

> >-- As always with love Jim Humble

> >

>  

> [Change Subscription]   [Cancel Subscription]

>

[Guest guest]

ginger, would it be ok to do a daily dose of mms1 [six drops a day] ???????

From: Ginger Duckett <gingerduckett@...> Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 2:21:44 PMSubject: [ ] Fw: Jim Humble's FDA Response

----- Forwarded Message ----From: "MMSnews@..." <MMSnews@...>gingerduckett@...Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 4:18:25 PMSubject: Jim Humble's FDA Response

Warning

FDA-approved drugs cause death

225,000 people died last year after taking one or more drugs approved by the FDA and prescribed by a doctor. (Some agencies report a much greater number; depends upon what agency is reporting.)

No, these people do not die as a natural progression of their disease, whatever it might be. These human beings die as a result of taking prescribed drugs. The action of the drug kills them. The drug Vioxx, for example, killed 60,000 people before the FDA took it off the market. These death reports are on the internet. Just look them up under “Medical drugs and death.â€

The public has brain-washed itself, with the help of endless commercials manipulated by powerful Pharmaceutical interests, into believing that drug deaths are a natural result of illness, and that the deaths are inevitable. The public so desperately wants to believe that these drugs will work that they are willing to risk death. The FDA wants to make money so badly that it puts millions of people at risk daily, taking drugs that have caused the death of hundreds of thousands each year. THESE DEATHS ARE NOT NECESSARY. There is not a single drug on the market that will heal; they only

treat symptoms, and most often ineffectively. Sorry, I've just got to say it, that is murder, plain and simple. I must mention that if most people take better care of themselves by knowing the facts, these astronomical numbers would be significantly reduced overnight.

The FDA just recently issued a warning against MMS

They did not conduct tests, refer to the actual chemistry, or consult with experts. Instead, they listened to several reports from individuals who 'thought that they might have had a bad reaction from MMS'. The FDA did nothing more than respond to these allegations, according to their own report. What about the thousands of reports of benefit from MMS users?What about the National Institute of Health Report done by Judith R. Lubbers, Sudha Chauan, and phR. Bianchine back in 1982 where, with double blind clinical trials, they proved that ingesting chlorine dioxide had no ill effects on the human body. Look it up yourself. Click

here: http://srv.ezinedirector.net/?n=3977168 & s=115208302

More than 5 million people have tried MMS, and it is being used worldwide in Europe, in Asia, in Africa, and a thousand other places on earth. The FDA receives a couple of 'iffy' statements from “several†consumers, and now they are doing their best to take MMS off of the market!

Why is that? Why do you think the FDA wants to remove MMS from the market?

MMS REPLACES MANY FDA-APPROVED DRUGS!

DO YOU SEE? ALWAYS, ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY!

I DON’T NEED TO GIVE YOU PROOF HERE; THE PROOF IS ALL OVER THE INTERNET. SEE FOR YOURSELVES! LOOK UP JIM HUMBLE, MIRACLE MINERAL SOLUTION, OR JUST MMS. IF YOU WISH TO SEE WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SAYING, GOOGLE EUROPE OR ANY CONTINENT OR COUNTRY.

Years ago the FDA convinced the public and college students (those are the easiest to convince) that you need to have double blind and triple blind tests in a laboratory and that you needed to start out testing rats to prove that they get well first. By the time you finish with those tests you have spent a few hundred million dollars and a few years. And that is the way that they discourage most others from ever even trying to complete those tests. They are extremely expensive, and the prohibitive cost will most often result in a person giving up before definitive results are possible.

I proved, in the jungle, in the city, and anywhere people are sick around the world, that you don’t have to spend money. It is only the results that count. I know it is ridiculously simple, so much so that it scares me to mention it. When I needed to prove MMS2 and I had a sick person to treat, I myself took a little tiny bit, and then some more, and then more, and when it didn’t harm me, I gave it to the sick person to see if it would work. And guess what? Sick people everywhere got well. When I asked them, “How are you feeling", they told me,

“Great.†Do you see? It’s so much easier to work with people because they can talk. You can’t ask a rat how he feels and it’s an expertise that I don’t have, finding out how a rat feels.

So I short circuited the testing program by millions of dollars and many years. Then, for the fun of it, I asked a few people who were cured of cancer if they would rather have risked dying while I performed the correct rat program with double blind and triple blind tests. Not one of them would have preferred to risk dying while we spent years completing those tests.

Just so you know, and not to brag at all, I have successfully given more than 5000 sick people MMS by personally handing the solution to each person. On the occasions when I had assistance, I was there on the spot supervising. Also, I treated 5000 more suffering humans by email and telephone. I can safely say at this point that I have seen more people cured of incurable diseases than anyone else has. And I have answered more than 30,000 emails and my secretary a similar number.

Now let me introduce myself to you once again. I am

BISHOP JAMES V HUMBLE of the

Genesis II Church of Health and Healing.

I started the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing for the purpose of health and healing. It is legally formed. I was a Bishop first and then I created the Church. I started a few years ago as a Minister and eventually was consecrated as a Bishop in a lineage of Bishops leading back to Christ. This church I have formed is not a spiritual church, it is a church of Health and Healing for Mankind. That’s what we are doing now and that is what we will be doing --

HealingThat is a legitimate activity for a church. Our ministers heal as ministers should -- at no cost. For free. They depend upon donations to continue their Ministry. We don’t try to teach religious truths. We teach healing using our cleansing solution -- the solution that the FDA seeks to remove from the market. And we teach truths related to spiritual and physical healing and personal integrity.

We heal 98% of the diseases of mankind. Again, the evidence is on the Internet, and Bishop Jim (that’s me) has often been in Africa, healing diseases there. Most recently, in Africa, I treated 800 HIV/AIDS cases successfully. You might know that there are no tests to prove that HIV is cured because antibodies for the disease will always be present and antibodies are what they test for. However, what I did prove was that all of their symptoms were gone and they were back to work. Forty cases of cancer were gone, 50 cases of numb legs and feet were gone, 5 heart diseases were gone, a dozen cases of malaria that previously wouldn’t go away were now gone, Hepatitus C symptoms were gone, and all these cases were verified by the local hospital. And of course, there were several dozen

other symptoms caused by HIV that were gone as well.

Please join us and help with this important work! See the links at the bottom of this page.

I made complete records, and I have 750 phone numbers of those cured. I can make some or all of these phone numbers available to anyone wishing to verify the actual cures of these people. They all have phones. They are in Malawi. Most of them speak a little English. Hospitals won’t give out data, but most of the people speak enough to say how they are feeling. You can call them if you want, but you will need to come here.

Now you can be protected against forced vaccination of yourself and your children, and against forced insurance. That will include dozens of other suppressions such as dangerous health-destroying, altered foods that the government and companies such as Monsanto are trying to force onto us. We will have health food stores in our churches that are not restricted by Codex Alimentarious.

To join, please see the links at the bottom of this page.

To belong to the Genesis 2 Church:

All you have to do is believe in GOOD DEEDS, HEALING, AND ALWAYS DOING WHAT IS RIGHT. The Genesis 2 Church will stand between those who want to kill us and the people. As time goes by, it will protect us from gigantic oil spills done on purpose, terrorist acts like diseases created in laboratories, vaccinations that destroy the health of children and adults, chemical trails in the sky, altered foods of all kinds, laws against home schooling of children, and the US government that confiscates 5 billion dollars’ worth of private property each year with no chance of its recovery (See the Civil Forfeiture Act of 2000, HR1658) AND OF COURSE, dozens of other evils too numerous to mention here.

Down through the thousands of years, churches have continually claimed that they are working to save mankind. But we are the first church that can in fact actually heal thousands of people and thousands of diseases. We prove it daily. If you are sick, let us heal you for free.

Here's how it might go:

Genesis II Minister: Would you like to be free of your (cancer, malaria, TB, HIV)?

Ill Person: Yes, I would. I’m tired of this pain and disability.

Genesis II Minister: What would it be worth to you, to be free of it, to be healed?

Ill Person: In terms of money? A million dollars!

Genesis II Minister: (grins) But could you pay a million dollars for your healing?

Ill Person: Oh. Well, no, but I could pay you fifty dollars and I’d be glad to do that if you actually do heal me so I can put my life back together.

Genesis II Minister: OK, then would you be willing to donate $50 to the Genesis II Church after you’ve been really healed?

Ill Person: Yes, I would, if my symptoms are gone and I feel good and I can go back to work.

Genesis II Minister: Right. Let’s agree then: I’ll heal you and you donate $50 to our Church after you’re healed.

Ill Person: Yes. It’s a deal.

But most important is that you join our church, the

Genesis 2 Church of Health and Healing.

If you join our church, you will receive our protection and our beliefs that you must not be vaccinated and all the other benefits of our Church. We train a new class of Ministers of Health every 60 days here in the Dominican Republic or you can choose to take our DVD ministers training course and work at home. People who take our training become Ministers of Health. They minister health to the world. Our ministers are the most unusual people that the world has ever seen. They leave here with the ability to heal more than 95% of the ills of mankind. The day will come that a Minister of Health will command a great deal more respect than a doctor and soon.

The DVD ministers training course is a home study course and we will make sure that you are fully trained before you receive your certificate. We do this by our unique training and testing plan. When you receive our test, we will know by your answers if you really know the data. If not, we will continue to train you until you do know it.You can’t fail because we will keep training you until you succeed. (See bottom of page for links)

Fifty percent of all the net income of the Genesis 2 Church is put into a protection fund to hire lawyers and other people to protect our members. We expect to have a really large fund for this purpose and all of the church's money of the church is accounted for. The church is run on a completely transparent basis with financial reports to our members. When our protection fund is large, governments will not be able to interfere in the rights of our people, because we will have the lawyers and other people to insure our rights.

Our Minister of Health Training Class

The next training course starts on the 20th of September, and the training course after that will be on the 25th of October. The cost of the first week of training is $1000, which includes room and board. (If you don't have the money and you need a discount in order to come, we will make sure you can afford it. Talk to us. You will be surprised.)

The second week of training includes 3 days in the local villages or at a clinic on the Haitian border and this training includes your Doctor of MMS certificate (see below). The cost is $500 for the second week which includes room and board. If you spend at least 3 days helping the people of the villages (Mark will be with) you will also receive a certificate of Doctor of MMS if you pass the MMS training course test. You have unlimited time to pass the test. But you must know the data in order to pass the test.

CERTIFICATES: These are the certificates that you will receive for completing the training given here:

1. Certificate of Completion of the course.

2. Certificate of Minister of Health you can use Rev. in front of your name legally

3. Certificate of Membership in the Church

4. Certificate of Authorization to open your own Chapter of the Church

5. Church Plastic ID Card

6. Those completing the second week of at least 3 days ministering to the local people will Receive a Doctor of MMS Certificate and you can legally use Doctor in front of your name or Doctor of MMS after your name. Also you can use Rev. Dr. in front of your name. You must also past the questionnaire for MMS training.

DVD Minister of Health Training Course

The DVD Minister of Health training course includes all of the above certificates when completed. The cost of the course is $350 plus. It includes transcripts of one complete training course, and complete DVDs. However, at this time, all Dr. of MMS certificates will be issued only to those who complete the 3 days of treating local villagers. The cost is ½ price for those who are taking or have taken the DVD course which is $350. It should be done here in the DR, but could also be done in other parts of the world where you may live. To qualify, it must be a third world country.

Prices PRICES:

DR Training week one ------------------------- -----------------$1,000

DR Training Week two includes DR. MMS Cert. ------$500

DVD complete MMS Training (from two seminars) -- you get all certificates except Doctor (for which you must come to DR and treat villagers in a third world country) -- $350

Genesis 2 Church Membership with ID card -----------$20

Links

To come to the one or two week training course in the Dominican Republic, please email gmark777@... or mmsforhispaniolagmail

Or you can call Mark Grenon at 1-809439 3698 (country code required from the US)

For details on the training course, please go to www.mmstrainingcourse.com

To join our church, please call Mark at the above phone number or email him at gmark777@...

Jim Humble’s book and DVD -- www.miraclemineral.org

If you would like to speak to Jim Humble, please call Mark Grenon at the above number and ask for Jim’s phone number. It’s OK.

Project Green Life (www.projectgreenlife.com/) has opted to bow down to the FDA and recall all the bottles of MMS that they have ever sold.

There is no reason for this, as it has already been proved in double blind tests that MMS does no harm. Hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

But Project Green Life has chosen to frighten thousands of Americans and other citizens of the world by claiming that they believe what the FDA has NOT proved. I am sorry to report this. But people who have saved thousands have now chosen to betray them.

However, the fact still remains that MMS has been used by millions. Hundreds of thousands have improved their health and hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

--

As always with love

Jim Humble

[Change Subscription] [Cancel Subscription]

[Guest guest]

Tom.Please what is your reaction to people dying as a result of FDA prescribed drugs? I have been curiously waiting for your reaction on this new issue! And, I may say that I have not been disappointed with this reaction! Best Regards,Remi AwojobiFrom: silverfox_science <poast@...> Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:11:38 AMSubject: [ ] Re: Fw: Jim Humble's FDA Response

I invite everyone to take a look at the Lubbers study that Jim Humble referenced. He seems to indicate that this study proves that MMS is safe for everyone to take.

Let me point out that pure chlorine dioxide for laboratory use is made according to Method II in this document.

http://www.oxy.com/Our_Businesses/chemicals/Documents/sodium_chlorite/technicalData/Laboratory%20Preparations%20of%20Chlorine%20Dioxide%20Solutions.pdf

Is that the same method that Jim Humble uses with MMS?

Next, how many drops of MMS do you think they used per dose in the study...

They were using a 5 PPM solution and in 1 liter of water that would work out to about 1/2 drop of MMS.

As you can see, the similarities between the Lubbers study and the MMS protocol are NONE. I might also point out that the Lubbers study was not a double blind study, and it does nothing to prove that the MMS protocol does no harm.

Jim Humble believes that high concentrations of acidified sodium chlorite are safe because of a study done using chlorine dioxide technology at low concentrations. There are no studies indicating the safety of humans ingesting acidified sodium chlorite.

If Jim Humble doesn't understand the difference between chlorine dioxide and acidified sodium chlorite, what is he going to teach in his classes? Is that misinformation worth the money spent learning it?

Tom

>

>

>

>

>

> ----- Forwarded Message ----

> From: "MMSnews@..." <MMSnews@...>

> gingerduckett@...

> Sent: Tue, August 17, 2010 4:18:25 PM

> Subject: Jim Humble's FDA Response

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >Warning

> > FDA-approved drugs cause death

> >

> >225,000 people died last year after taking one or more drugs approved by the

> >FDA and prescribed by a doctor. (Some agencies report a much greater number;

> >depends upon what agency is reporting.)

> >

> >

> >

> >No, these people do not die as a natural progression of their disease, whatever

> >it might be. These human beings die as a result of taking prescribed drugs. The

> >action of the drug kills them. The drug Vioxx, for example, killed 60,000

> >people before the FDA took it off the market. These death reports are on the

> >internet. Just look them up under “Medical drugs and death.â€

> >

> >

> >The public has brain-washed itself, with the help of endless commercials

> >manipulated by powerful Pharmaceutical interests, into believing that drug

> >deaths are a natural result of illness, and that the deaths are inevitable. The

> >public so desperately wants to believe that these drugs will work that they are

> >willing to risk death. The FDA wants to make money so badly that it puts

> >millions of people at risk daily, taking drugs that have caused the death of

> >hundreds of thousands each year. THESE DEATHS ARE NOT NECESSARY. There is not a

> >single drug on the market that will heal; they only treat symptoms, and most

> >often ineffectively. Sorry, I've just got to say it, that is murder, plain and

> >simple. I must mention that if most people take better care of themselves by

> >knowing the facts, these astronomical numbers would be significantly reduced

> >overnight.

> >

> >

> >The FDA just recently issued a warning against MMS

> >

> >They did not conduct tests, refer to the actual chemistry, or consult with

> >experts. Instead, they listened to several reports from individuals who 'thought

> >that they might have had a bad reaction from MMS'. The FDA did nothing more than

> >respond to these allegations, according to their own report. What about the

> >thousands of reports of benefit from MMS users?

> >

> >What about the National Institute of Health Report done by Judith R. Lubbers,

> >Sudha Chauan, and ph

> >R. Bianchine back in 1982 where, with double blind clinical trials, they proved

> >that ingesting chlorine dioxide had no ill effects on the human body. Look it

> >up yourself. Click here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

> >pmc/articles/PMC1569027/pdf/ envhper00463-0059.pdf

> >

> >

> >>More than 5 million people have tried MMS, and it is being used worldwide in

> >>Europe, in Asia, in Africa, and a thousand other places on earth. The FDA

> >>receives a couple of 'iffy' statements from “several†consumers, and now they

> >>are doing their best to take MMS off of the market!

> >>

> >>Why is that? Why do you think the FDA wants to remove MMS from the market?

> >>

> >>

> >> MMS REPLACES MANY FDA-APPROVED DRUGS!

> >>

> >>

> >>DO YOU SEE? ALWAYS, ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY!

> >>

> >>

> >>I DON’T NEED TO GIVE YOU PROOF HERE; THE PROOF IS ALL OVER THE INTERNET. SEE

> >>FOR YOURSELVES! LOOK UP JIM HUMBLE, MIRACLE MINERAL SOLUTION, OR JUST MMS. IF

> >>YOU WISH TO SEE WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD IS SAYING, GOOGLE EUROPE OR ANY

> >>CONTINENT OR COUNTRY.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>Years ago the FDA convinced the public and college students (those are the

> >>easiest to convince) that you need to have double blind and triple blind tests

> >>in a laboratory and that you needed to start out testing rats to prove that they

> >>get well first. By the time you finish with those tests you have spent a few

> >>hundred million dollars and a few years. And that is the way that they

> >>discourage most others from ever even trying to complete those tests. They are

> >>extremely expensive, and the prohibitive cost will most often result in a person

> >>giving up before definitive results are possible.

> >>

> >>

> >>I proved, in the jungle, in the city, and anywhere people are sick around the

> >>world, that you don’t have to spend money. It is only the results that count. I

> >>know it is ridiculously simple, so much so that it scares me to mention

> >>it. When I needed to prove MMS2 and I had a sick person to treat, I myself took

> >>a little tiny bit, and then some more, and then more, and when it didn’t harm

> >>me, I gave it to the sick person to see if it would work. And guess what? Sick

> >> people everywhere got well. When I asked them, “How are you

> >>feeling", they told me, “Great.†Do you see? It’s so much easier to work with

> >>people because they can talk. You can’t ask a rat how he feels and it’s an

> >>expertise that I don’t have, finding out how a rat feels.

> >>

> >>

> >>So I short circuited the testing program by millions of dollars and many

> >>years. Then, for the fun of it, I asked a few people who were cured of cancer if

> >>they would rather have risked dying while I performed the correct rat program

> >>with double blind and triple blind tests. Not one of them would have

> >> preferred to risk dying while we spent years completing those tests.

> >>

> >>

> >>Just so you know, and not to brag at all, I have successfully given more than

> >>5000 sick people MMS by personally handing the solution to each person. On the

> >>occasions when I had assistance, I was there on the spot supervising. Also, I

> >>treated 5000 more suffering humans by email and telephone. I can safely say at

> >>this point that I have seen more people cured of incurable diseases than anyone

> >>else has. And I have answered more than 30,000 emails and my secretary a similar

> >>number.

> >>

> >>Now let me introduce myself to you once again. I am

> >>BISHOP JAMES V HUMBLE of the

> >>Genesis II Church of Health and Healing.

> >>I started the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing for the purpose of health

> >>and healing. It is legally formed. I was a Bishop first and then I created the

> >>Church. I started a few years ago as a Minister and eventually

> >>was consecrated as a Bishop in a lineage of Bishops leading back to Christ. This

> >>church I have formed is not a spiritual church, it is a church of Health and

> >>Healing for Mankind. That’s what we are doing now and that is what we will be

> >>doing --

> Healing

> That is a legitimate activity for a church. Our ministers heal as ministers

> should -- at no cost. For free. They depend upon donations to continue their

> Ministry. We don’t try to teach religious truths. We teach healing using our

> cleansing solution -- the solution that the FDA seeks to remove from the market.

> And we teach truths related to spiritual and physical healing and personal

> integrity.

>

> We heal 98% of the diseases of mankind. Again, the evidence is on the Internet,

> and Bishop Jim (that’s me) has often been in Africa, healing diseases there.

> Most recently, in Africa, I treated 800 HIV/AIDS cases successfully. You might

> know that there are no tests to prove that HIV is cured because antibodies for

> the disease will always be present and antibodies are what they test

> for. However, what I did prove was that all of their symptoms were gone and they

> were back to work. Forty cases of cancer were gone, 50 cases of numb legs and

> feet were gone, 5 heart diseases were gone, a dozen cases of malaria that

> previously wouldn’t go away were now gone, Hepatitus C symptoms were gone, and

> all these cases were verified by the local hospital. And of course, there were

> several dozen other symptoms caused by HIV that were gone as well.

>

> >Please join us and help with this important work! See the links at the bottom of

> >this page.

> >

> >

> I made complete records, and I have 750 phone numbers of those cured. I can make

> some or all of these phone numbers available to anyone wishing to verify the

> actual cures of these people. They all have phones. They are in Malawi. Most of

> them speak a little English. Hospitals won’t give out data, but most of the

> people speak enough to say how they are feeling. You can call them if you want,

> but you will need to come here.

>

> Now you can be protected against forced vaccination of yourself and your

> children, and against forced insurance. That will include dozens of other

> suppressions such as dangerous health-destroying, altered foods that the

> government and companies such as Monsanto are trying to force onto us. We will

> have health food stores in our churches that are not restricted by Codex

> Alimentarious.

>

> >To join, please see the links at the bottom of this page.

> >

> To belong to the Genesis 2 Church:

> >

> All you have to do is believe in GOOD DEEDS, HEALING, AND ALWAYS DOING WHAT IS

> RIGHT. The Genesis 2 Church will stand between those who want to kill us and the

> people. As time goes by, it will protect us from gigantic oil spills done on

> purpose, terrorist acts like diseases created in laboratories, vaccinations that

> destroy the health of children and adults, chemical trails in the sky, altered

> foods of all kinds, laws against home schooling of children, and the US

> government that confiscates 5 billion dollars’ worth of private property each

> year with no chance of its recovery (See the Civil Forfeiture Act of 2000,

> HR1658) AND OF COURSE, dozens of other evils too numerous to

> mention here.

>

> >

> >Down through the thousands of years, churches have continually claimed that they

> >are working to save mankind. But we are the first church that can in fact

> >actually heal thousands of people and thousands of diseases. We prove it

> >daily. If you are sick, let us heal you for free.

> >

> Here's how it might go:

>

> Genesis II Minister: Would you like to be free of your (cancer, malaria, TB,

> HIV)?

> Ill Person: Yes, I would. I’m tired of this pain and disability.

> Genesis II Minister: What would it be worth to you, to be free of it, to be

> healed?

> Ill Person: In terms of money? A million dollars!

> Genesis II Minister: (grins) But could you pay a million dollars for your

> healing?

> Ill Person: Oh. Well, no, but I could pay you fifty dollars and I’d be glad to

> do that if you actually do heal me so I can put my life back together.

> Genesis II Minister: OK, then would you be willing to donate $50 to the Genesis

> II Church after you’ve been really healed?

> Ill Person: Yes, I would, if my symptoms are gone and I feel good and I can go

> back to work.

> Genesis II Minister: Right. Let’s agree then: I’ll heal you and you donate $50

> to our Church after you’re healed.

> Ill Person: Yes. It’s a deal.

>

>

> But most important is that you join our church, the

> >Genesis 2 Church of Health and Healing.

> >

> >

> >If you join our church, you will receive our protection and our beliefs that you

> >must not be vaccinated and all the other benefits of our Church. We train a new

> >class of Ministers of Health every 60 days here in the Dominican Republic or you

> >can choose to take our DVD ministers training course and work at home. People

> >who take our training become Ministers of Health. They minister health to the

> >world. Our ministers are the most unusual people that the world has ever

> >seen. They leave here with the ability to heal more than 95% of the ills of

> >mankind. The day will come that a Minister of Health will command a great deal

> >more respect than a doctor and soon.

>

> The DVD ministers training course is a home study course and we will make sure

> that you are fully trained before you receive your certificate. We do this by

> our unique training and testing plan. When you receive our test, we will know by

> your answers if you really know the data. If not, we will continue to train you

> until you do know it.You can’t fail because we will keep training you until you

> succeed. (See bottom of page for links)

> >

> Fifty percent of all the net income of the Genesis 2 Church is put into a

> protection fund to hire lawyers and other people to protect our members. We

> expect to have a really large fund for this purpose and all of the church's

> money of the church is accounted for. The church is run on a completely

> transparent basis with financial reports to our members. When our protection

> fund is large, governments will not be able to interfere in the rights of our

> people, because we will have the lawyers and other people to insure our rights.

>

> Our Minister of Health Training Class

> The next training course starts on the 20th of September, and the training

> course after that will be on the 25th of October. The cost of the first week of

> training is $1000, which includes room and board. (If you don't have the money

> and you need a discount in order to come, we will make sure you can afford it.

> Talk to us. You will be surprised.)

>

> The second week of training includes 3 days in the local villages or at a clinic

> on the Haitian border and this training includes your Doctor of MMS certificate

> (see below). The cost is $500 for the second week which includes room and

> board. If you spend at least 3 days helping the people of the villages (Mark

> will be with) you will also receive a certificate of Doctor of MMS if you pass

> the MMS training course test. You have unlimited time to pass the test. But you

> must know the data in order to pass the test.

> CERTIFICATES: These are the certificates that you will receive for completing

> the training given here:

> >1. Certificate of Completion of the course.

> >2. Certificate of Minister of Health you can use Rev. in front of your

> >name legally

> >3. Certificate of Membership in the Church

> >4. Certificate of Authorization to open your own Chapter of the Church

> >5. Church Plastic ID Card

> >6. Those completing the second week of at least 3 days ministering to the

> >local people will Receive a Doctor of MMS Certificate and you can legally use

> >Doctor in front of your name or Doctor of MMS after your name. Also you can use

> >Rev. Dr. in front of your name. You must also past the questionnaire

> >for MMS training.

> DVD Minister of Health Training Course

> The DVD Minister of Health training course includes all of the above

> certificates when completed. The cost of the course is $350 plus. It includes

> transcripts of one complete training course, and complete DVDs. However, at this

> time, all Dr. of MMS certificates will be issued only to those

> who complete the 3 days of treating local villagers. The cost is ½ price for

> those who are taking or have taken the DVD course which is $350. It should be

> done here in the DR, but could also be done in other parts of the world where

> you may live. To qualify, it must be a third world country.

> >Prices PRICES:

> >DR Training week one ------------------------- -----------------$1,000

> >DR Training Week two includes DR. MMS Cert. ------$500

> >DVD complete MMS Training (from two seminars) -- you get all certificates except

> >Doctor (for which you must come to DR and treat villagers in a third world

> >country) -- $350

> > Genesis 2 Church Membership with ID card -----------$20

> >

> >Links

> >To come to the one or two week training course in the Dominican Republic, please

> >email gmark777@... or mmsforhispaniola@...

> >

> >

> >

> >Or you can call Mark Grenon at 1-809439 3698 (country code required from the

> US)

> >

> >

> >For details on the training course, please go to www.mmstrainingcourse.com

> >

> To join our church, please call Mark at the above phone number or email

> him at gmark777@...

>

> >

> >Jim Humble’s book and DVD -- www.miraclemineral.org

> >

> >

> >If you would like to speak to Jim Humble, please call Mark Grenon at the above

> >number and ask for Jim’s phone number. It’s OK.

> Project Green Life (www.projectgreenlife.com/) has opted to bow down to the FDA

> and recall all the bottles of MMS that they have ever sold.

> There is no reason for this, as it has already been proved in double blind tests

> that MMS does no harm. Hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

> But Project Green Life has chosen to frighten thousands of Americans

> and other citizens of the world by claiming that they believe what the FDA has

> NOT proved.

> I am sorry to report this. But people who have saved thousands have now chosen

> to betray them.

>

> However, the fact still remains that MMS has been used by millions.

> Hundreds of thousands have improved their health

> and hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved.

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> >-- As always with love Jim Humble

> >

>

> [Change Subscription] [Cancel Subscription]

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Remi,

The current medical system has a lot of problems. In some cases they are able

to do great and marvelous things, and in other cases they fall flat on their

face. As I understand it, the reaction of the body with various chemicals is

very complex. Add to this the interactions between various chemicals and you

end up with a very difficult matrix to work through.

When that difficulty is added to the expectation that most people do not want to

die and expect the medical profession to be able to do something about illness,

the probability of mistakes increases. Unfortunately, when a medical

professional makes a mistake, the result can end in death.

One solution to all of this is to never put any chemicals into your body. You

may still die, but you will be responsible for your demise and the cause of

death may be more " natural... "

Tom

>

> Tom.

>

> Please what is your reaction to people dying as a result of FDA prescribed

> drugs? I have been curiously waiting for your reaction on this new issue!

>

> And, I may say that I have not been disappointed with this reaction!

> Best Regards,

>

> Remi Awojobi

>

[Guest guest]

Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician or bought

candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to profit and not cure is

absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors, often studies known by drug companies

are ignored and still sold for profit, back off the doctors Tom and look towards

the drugs to! Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

http://www.naturalnews.com/028233_GlaxoKline_Avandia.html

Sounds like business as usual at the FDA, the " sweep it under the rug " division

of the pharmaceutical industry. Once again, Dr Graham turns out to be the

sharpest guy in the room while having the courage to tell the truth even when

surrounded by an agency full of morons and criminals.

> >

> > Tom.

> >

> > Please what is your reaction to people dying as a result of FDA prescribed

> > drugs? I have been curiously waiting for your reaction on this new issue!

> >

> > And, I may say that I have not been disappointed with this reaction!

> > Best Regards,

> >

> > Remi Awojobi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tom Let me retract and clarify all doctors who are not paid or hired by the FDA!

I am assured my mothers small town struggling doctor had no inside interest in

her care, other than her health!

http://www.naturalnews.com/020328.html

http://www.americanchinesemedicineassociation.org/Americans%20Fed%20up%20with%20\

Drug%20Industry%20Influence%20and%20FDA%20Corruption.htm

> > >

> > > Tom.

> > >

> > > Please what is your reaction to people dying as a result of FDA prescribed

> > > drugs? I have been curiously waiting for your reaction on this new issue!

> > >

> > > And, I may say that I have not been disappointed with this reaction!

> > > Best Regards,

> > >

> > > Remi Awojobi

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-08-18 3:01 PM, healinghope <mfrreman@...> wrote:

> Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician

> or bought candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to

> profit and not cure is absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors,

Do you also believe that guns kill, not the people wielding them?

> back off the doctors Tom and look towards the drugs to!

Drugs are inanimate objects, and bear no blame whatsoever.

It is the people wielding them - and the bottom line is, it is MEDICAL

DOCTORS that prescribe the drugs, and without the prescription, they

don't get them.

> Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

> CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

Actually, I *DO* blame her doctor... if he isn't supposed to know

better, who is?

Of course, that does not mean I don't also hold the pharmas and the FDA

to blame too - in fact, the most culpable is the FDA, as without their

power to suppress natural remedies at gunpoint, natural remedies would

quickly replace chemical drugs as the treatment of choice for doctors

and their patients alike.

[Guest guest]

Well I see I have brought out the tag team!

> > Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician

> > or bought candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to

> > profit and not cure is absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors,

>

> Do you also believe that guns kill, not the people wielding them?

>

> > back off the doctors Tom and look towards the drugs to!

>

> Drugs are inanimate objects, and bear no blame whatsoever.

>

> It is the people wielding them - and the bottom line is, it is MEDICAL

> DOCTORS that prescribe the drugs, and without the prescription, they

> don't get them.

>

> > Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

> > CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

>

> Actually, I *DO* blame her doctor... if he isn't supposed to know

> better, who is?

>

> Of course, that does not mean I don't also hold the pharmas and the FDA

> to blame too - in fact, the most culpable is the FDA, as without their

> power to suppress natural remedies at gunpoint, natural remedies would

> quickly replace chemical drugs as the treatment of choice for doctors

> and their patients alike.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-08-18 4:20 PM, healinghope <mfrreman@...> wrote:

> Well I see I have brought out the tag team!

And I see that you failed to answer the question and avoided the issues,

as usual...

>

>>> Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician

>>> or bought candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to

>>> profit and not cure is absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors,

>>

>> Do you also believe that guns kill, not the people wielding them?

>>

>>> back off the doctors Tom and look towards the drugs to!

>>

>> Drugs are inanimate objects, and bear no blame whatsoever.

>>

>> It is the people wielding them - and the bottom line is, it is MEDICAL

>> DOCTORS that prescribe the drugs, and without the prescription, they

>> don't get them.

>>

>>> Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

>>> CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

>>

>> Actually, I *DO* blame her doctor... if he isn't supposed to know

>> better, who is?

>>

>> Of course, that does not mean I don't also hold the pharmas and the FDA

>> to blame too - in fact, the most culpable is the FDA, as without their

>> power to suppress natural remedies at gunpoint, natural remedies would

>> quickly replace chemical drugs as the treatment of choice for doctors

>> and their patients alike.

[Guest guest]

Your response is not worth any effort.

> >>> Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician

> >>> or bought candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to

> >>> profit and not cure is absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors,

> >>

> >> Do you also believe that guns kill, not the people wielding them?

> >>

> >>> back off the doctors Tom and look towards the drugs to!

> >>

> >> Drugs are inanimate objects, and bear no blame whatsoever.

> >>

> >> It is the people wielding them - and the bottom line is, it is MEDICAL

> >> DOCTORS that prescribe the drugs, and without the prescription, they

> >> don't get them.

> >>

> >>> Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

> >>> CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

> >>

> >> Actually, I *DO* blame her doctor... if he isn't supposed to know

> >> better, who is?

> >>

> >> Of course, that does not mean I don't also hold the pharmas and the FDA

> >> to blame too - in fact, the most culpable is the FDA, as without their

> >> power to suppress natural remedies at gunpoint, natural remedies would

> >> quickly replace chemical drugs as the treatment of choice for doctors

> >> and their patients alike.

>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-08-18 5:06 PM, healinghope <mfrreman@...> wrote:

> Your response is not worth any effort.

Of course not... as the logic is inescapable, and any effort at refuting

it is futile.

Or are you suggesting that when someone dies from a gunshot wound, that

it really is the gun, as opposed to the person pulling the trigger, that

is responsible?

[Guest guest]

Please what a discerner. If one is not aware the gun will kill and

actually is advised and told it would heal, how could they know? What is your

point! The point being if doctors are mislead by drug companies how can they

treat responsibility. I do not get your comparison .

> > Your response is not worth any effort.

>

> Of course not... as the logic is inescapable, and any effort at refuting

> it is futile.

>

> Or are you suggesting that when someone dies from a gunshot wound, that

> it really is the gun, as opposed to the person pulling the trigger, that

> is responsible?

>

[Guest guest]

On 2010-08-18 5:36 PM, healinghope <mfrreman@...> wrote:

> Please what a discerner. If one is not aware the gun will

> kill and actually is advised and told it would heal, how could they

> know? What is your point! The point being if doctors are mislead by

> drug companies how can they treat responsibility. I do not get your

> comparison .

A gun is an inanimate object, just like the drug. It is a (potential)

tool, that is all.

It is the mind that wields the tool that bears 100% of the

responsibility for any damage caused by its misuse - and 100% of the

credit for its proper use.

A medical doctor is not a trained monkey. They know - or *should* know -

that drugs are not and can not be the answer to true health.

Ignorance of the laws of nature is no excuse. If you jump off of a

cliff, regardless of your personal feelings about the law of gravity,

you will still go splat when you hit the bottom.

Oh - and in case you are wondering, the doctor's patient (yes, that

includes your mother and my father) bears equal responsibility for the

decision to use drugs (or to not use drugs), to use MMS (or to not use

MMS), etc etc - and any consequences (negative or positive) of such actions.

In other words, we are each 100% responsible for our own decisions and

actions (or inactions). Any other point of view is plain irrational.

[Guest guest]

I think there should be equal if not significant culpability on the

doctor's behalf as he is supposed to be up to date on medical item

recalls, problems, interactions etc. I would certainly hope my doctors

wouldn't be so lazy or complacent to listen entirely to reps and kick backs.

medusa

what was it in that pesky oath they take?? oh yea..... first do not

harm !

On 08/18/2010 03:01 PM, healinghope wrote:

> Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician or bought

candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to profit and not cure is

absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors, often studies known by drug companies

are ignored and still sold for profit, back off the doctors Tom and look towards

the drugs to! Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

> http://www.naturalnews.com/028233_GlaxoKline_Avandia.html

> Sounds like business as usual at the FDA, the " sweep it under the rug "

division of the pharmaceutical industry. Once again, Dr Graham turns out

to be the sharpest guy in the room while having the courage to tell the truth

even when surrounded by an agency full of morons and criminals.

>

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ok. So pharma makes the meds, fda approves without testing, then how does the

drug get to us? Who prescribes? Will you prescribe a drug blindly? As they

say, it takes two to tango, in this case maybe three?

> > Tom I have never heard such politic bull, except from a politician

> > or bought candidate. Blaming the medical doctors for drugs made to

> > profit and not cure is absurd. The drugs kill not the doctors,

>

> Do you also believe that guns kill, not the people wielding them?

>

> > back off the doctors Tom and look towards the drugs to!

>

> Drugs are inanimate objects, and bear no blame whatsoever.

>

> It is the people wielding them - and the bottom line is, it is MEDICAL

> DOCTORS that prescribe the drugs, and without the prescription, they

> don't get them.

>

> > Do not blame my mothers doctor for her diabetes drug LONG KNOWN TO

> > CAUSE HARM BY PHARMO, AND THE FDA!

>

> Actually, I *DO* blame her doctor... if he isn't supposed to know

> better, who is?

>

> Of course, that does not mean I don't also hold the pharmas and the FDA

> to blame too - in fact, the most culpable is the FDA, as without their

> power to suppress natural remedies at gunpoint, natural remedies would

> quickly replace chemical drugs as the treatment of choice for doctors

> and their patients alike.

>

[Guest guest]

Doctors are blindsided by lies and corruption just like the people they care

for, not all doctors but some still work on ethics. To put all care providers in

a corrupt greed oriented care system for me is just wrong. Many doctors truly

believe in healing and helping the sick.

http://www.pcrm.org/news/avandia_pcrm_lawsuit_1007.html

News Release Archive 2010

NEWS RELEASE

July 19, 2010

Doctors Sue FDA Over Diabetes Drugs' Fatal Side Effects

Warning Labels Should Alert Patients to Safe Alternatives to Avandia, Says

Lawsuit Filed in U.S. District Court

WASHINGTON—In a lawsuit filed this month against the Food and Drug

Administration, a doctors group seeks to compel the agency to alert patients to

safe dietary alternatives to Avandia and other diabetes drugs that may increase

the risk of stroke, heart failure, and death. The nonprofit Physicians Committee

for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) is filing the suit in the U.S. District Court

for the District of Columbia.

The lawsuit targets FDA commissioner Margaret Hamburg, M.D., for failing to act

on a PCRM administrative petition urging the FDA to require that diabetes drugs

carry warning labels telling patients that low-fat plant-based diets can

effectively treat type 2 diabetes without dangerous side effects associated with

oral medications.

A 2006 study funded by the National Institutes of Health found that a low-fat

plant-based diet was as effective as oral medications at reducing blood glucose

and cholesterol in people with diabetes.This month, other researchers unveiled

data linking Avandia to life-threatening side effects that may have killed or

injured tens of thousands of people. The FDA took expert and public testimony on

Avandia at a special joint meeting of two advisory panels on July 13 and 14.

" A plant-based diet is as effective as drugs for lowering blood sugar, and much

more effective for trimming body weight, " says PCRM president Neal Barnard, M.D.

" Doctors and patients need the facts. "

As the doctors point out in their lawsuit, " PCRM's petition requested that FDA

require a disclosure in the labeling of drugs, such as Avandia, used to manage

blood glucose in diabetes treatment. The disclosure would state that a low-fat

plant-based diet has an efficacy and safety profile that can be as favorable as,

or more favorable than, oral diabetes medications. FDA has failed to provide a

substantive response to PCRM's petition in a reasonable time, in violation of

the Administrative Procedure Act. "

Founded in 1985, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is a

nonprofit health organization that promotes preventive medicine, conducts

clinical research, and encourages higher standards for ethics and effectiveness

in research.

MEDIA CONTACT:

Jeanne S. McVey

202-527-7316

jeannem@...

Neal Barnard, M.D.

[Guest guest]

Another example of a good doctors challenges.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/08/physicians-fda-ad-enforcement.html

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) wants physicians to turn in Big Pharma

marketing and promotional materials that are misleading, that are poisoning us

with information that reaches beyond FDA's approved indications and regulations.

This new government initiative is called the `Bad Ad' program, a name so absurd,

that it must have taken months of committee meetings to create. Physicians who

encounter a rogue drug rep, or promotional materials that promise more than the

FDA permits, can anonymously report the offender via an email address and phone

number, which I will not provide here.

There is a Stalinesque aura to all of this. If I ask a drug rep about off label

use of a drug, am I doing so to acquire medical information for a patient, or am

I serving as a government agent, a G-Man, who is setting a trap?

Is this a good idea? Will this foster collaboration and trust between the

medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry? Is it physicians' role to

serve as an enforcement arm of the government?

Personally, I believe that the FDA regulations on marketing to physicians is

overly restrictive. For example, every physicians prescribes off label

medicines, but we can't discuss these uses with Pharma reps who are often

excellent resources on unapproved medication uses. These sales folks may call on

leaders in the field and may be able to relate to us nuances and new uses of

medicines that can benefit our patients.

I know that these guys and gals are not physicians, but are trying to sell

products, like everyone else in the marketplace. Sometimes, marketers go over

the line. For example, Kellogg, the cereal company, had to take back two health

claims:

• Frosted Mini-Wheats can improve kids' attention spans.

• Rice Krispies can enhance kids' immunity.

In these cases, the Federal Trade Commission was right to intervene. Drug

promotion can also go over the line and need to be reined in and sanctioned. I

am not sure, however, that the line is in the right place presently. What is

your view?

I don't like the `bad ad' program, and I don't intend to have the FDA on my

speed dial. I don't like the precedent of folks being encouraged to turn in

colleagues. Imagine where this idea could take us.

This post has riled me up and I need to calm down. I need an `off label'

anxiolytic. It's time for a Vodka i, shaken not stirred.

Kirsch is a gastroenterologist who blogs at MD Whistleblower.

S

--- In , " healinghope " <mfrreman@...>

wrote:

>

> Doctors are blindsided by lies and corruption just like the people they care

for, not all doctors but some still work on ethics. To put all care providers in

a corrupt greed oriented care system for me is just wrong. Many doctors truly

believe in healing and helping the sick.

> http://www.pcrm.org/news/avandia_pcrm_lawsuit_1007.html

>

> News Release Archive 2010

>

> NEWS RELEASE

>

> July 19, 2010

>

>

> Doctors Sue FDA Over Diabetes Drugs' Fatal Side Effects

>

> Warning Labels Should Alert Patients to Safe Alternatives to Avandia, Says

Lawsuit Filed in U.S. District Court

>

> WASHINGTON—In a lawsuit filed this month against the Food and Drug

Administration, a doctors group seeks to compel the agency to alert patients to

safe dietary alternatives to Avandia and other diabetes drugs that may increase

the risk of stroke, heart failure, and death. The nonprofit Physicians Committee

for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) is filing the suit in the U.S. District Court

for the District of Columbia.

>

> The lawsuit targets FDA commissioner Margaret Hamburg, M.D., for failing to

act on a PCRM administrative petition urging the FDA to require that diabetes

drugs carry warning labels telling patients that low-fat plant-based diets can

effectively treat type 2 diabetes without dangerous side effects associated with

oral medications.

>

> A 2006 study funded by the National Institutes of Health found that a low-fat

plant-based diet was as effective as oral medications at reducing blood glucose

and cholesterol in people with diabetes.This month, other researchers unveiled

data linking Avandia to life-threatening side effects that may have killed or

injured tens of thousands of people. The FDA took expert and public testimony on

Avandia at a special joint meeting of two advisory panels on July 13 and 14.

>

> " A plant-based diet is as effective as drugs for lowering blood sugar, and

much more effective for trimming body weight, " says PCRM president Neal Barnard,

M.D. " Doctors and patients need the facts. "

>

> As the doctors point out in their lawsuit, " PCRM's petition requested that FDA

require a disclosure in the labeling of drugs, such as Avandia, used to manage

blood glucose in diabetes treatment. The disclosure would state that a low-fat

plant-based diet has an efficacy and safety profile that can be as favorable as,

or more favorable than, oral diabetes medications. FDA has failed to provide a

substantive response to PCRM's petition in a reasonable time, in violation of

the Administrative Procedure Act. "

>

> Founded in 1985, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is a

nonprofit health organization that promotes preventive medicine, conducts

clinical research, and encourages higher standards for ethics and effectiveness

in research.

>

> MEDIA CONTACT:

> Jeanne S. McVey

> 202-527-7316

> jeannem@...

>

>

> Neal Barnard, M.D.

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is the oath, and many take it seriously. It is difficult in a corrupt and

misleading system. Perhaps the drug companies and FDA should give such oath.

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps

I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required,

avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that

warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the

chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say " I know not, " nor will I fail to call in my

colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed

to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters

of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may

also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be

faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must

not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a

sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic

stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care

adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to

all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live

and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the

finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing

those who seek my help.

> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good point. I know that my husbands doctor - unlike his predecessor - told him

that ALL drugs have side effects and if at all possible - do not take any. dee

On 18 Aug 2010, at 23:41, medusa569 wrote:

> I think there should be equal if not significant culpability on the

> doctor's behalf as he is supposed to be up to date on medical item

> recalls, problems, interactions etc. I would certainly hope my doctors

> wouldn't be so lazy or complacent to listen entirely to reps and kick backs.

>

>

> medusa

>

> what was it in that pesky oath they take?? oh yea..... first do not

> harm !

>

>

>

>

>