Re: How could she know.....

February 26, 2003

Belinda,

I can imagine how distressing that is!!

Personally, I've always just thought that it's instinct sometimes. I

work at our local mental health center as an office assistant in

the " developmental disabilities " dept. So a lot of the case managers

have mentally retarded clients, from mild to profound. And I don't

think there's many of the MR clients that do NOT know what sex is, or

that there are certain body parts they shouldn't touch but DO because

they know it's wrong (there's and other's), that know cuss words and

that they're " bad " but still say them, etc., etc. They're all great

people, I admire them!! But I guess I'm saying that I'm sure mom/dad

didn't express to some of the more MR adults about sex. It's just

instinct. They just " know. "

I guess - and I AM guessing - if my 7 y/o said that, that I would

talk about how wrong the voices are and that she knows that she/they

shouldn't do that, and that that " mean old OCD " sure is throwing some

crazy thoughts her way, she should just not pay attention and/or boss

OCD back.

Well, I'm no help but I'm sure the others who've had kids with the

sexual thoughts can offer plenty of advice on how to handle them.

I'll be interested in reading them myself!

>

> I don't get it . this is what my just 7 year old daughter said

today today,

> she said " B ( she calls me the voices in my head say boys want

to put

> their private spots in my private spot " This is a child who has

never been

> to school as she is homeschooled, who is in sports but i am always

there

> cheering her on so see what goes on, how could she know? Where does

that

> kind of statement come from? and what do i respond? This is an

awful thing

> to be going through with my baby girl, everyday she says at least

10 things

> of this nature and I don't know how to repond to it or how to help

> her!!!!!! Belinda

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online

> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

February 26, 2003

Belinda-does she have older brothers or sisters or how about her girlfriends

that she plays with in the neighborhood or cousins at holidays. I would come

right out and ask how she knows that. Ellen

February 26, 2003

Belinda-it is hard to decide what to say and what not. I remember my older

one wanted to know things at a young age so I answered her questions and she

accepted everything. So, when my younger one started asking ?, I just tried

to answer the exact question she asked. As soon as I did, she said " let's

talk about this when I am older! " So, that was my hint! It's hard to know

whether your child is crying out for an explanation or not.... Does the

therapist give any advice on this? The way I am is real curious about things

my kids say. Even if a child said something like that to a teacher or

helper, we would immediately asked who they heard that from and what do they

mean so we would find out if they really understood what they were saying.

Then, probably, we would have them talk to the counselor. How old did you

say your child is? I don't envy you! Ellen

February 27, 2003

Maybe she saw something on tv. I think even the commercials are awful these

days! My daughter is designated disabled by the county due to her

disabilities and we get meds/therapy/pdoc for free but I go to a private pdoc

for the medical care because I was disappointed in what the county had to

offer for free. It is definitely not the cream of the crop! So, our Aetna

pays half for the med checks. It's worth it to get things straightened out!

Hope it goes well. Ellen

February 27, 2003

Belinda-does she have older brothers or sisters or how about her girlfriends

that she plays with in the neighborhood or cousins at holidays. I would

come

right out and ask how she knows that. Ellen

I didn't want to confirm it to her Ellen, KWIM? She didn't actually ask

me if it could happen she just said " The worries tell me boys privates can

go in my pivates " but I am wondering if she has guessed that that is how

babies are made and the OCD is sort of just expanding it to her? I just said

" Oh honey you don't have to worry about that " It seems like no matter what

i say it freaks her out and makes her overthing everything so I just didn't

want to confirm it for her. Is that being naive? B

>From: Bowellen@...

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: How could she know.....

>Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:45:47 EST

>

>Belinda-does she have older brothers or sisters or how about her

>girlfriends

>that she plays with in the neighborhood or cousins at holidays. I would

>come

>right out and ask how she knows that. Ellen

>

February 27, 2003

.. Even if a child said something like that to a teacher or

helper, we would immediately asked who they heard that from and what do they

mean so we would find out if they really understood what they were saying.

Then, probably, we would have them talk to the counselor. How old did you

say your child is? I don't envy you! Ellen

She is 7 Ellen, I did say " Why would you think that Mat? and she said "

my worries tell me that and they tell me to kiss people and they show my how

people on TV look naked " I hate this disorder. I HATE it, I hate it so bad

it just seems like it is taking my daughter away and giving me a child so

racked with turmoil. She has not seen a therapist who has addressed her OCD

yet we go wednesday night for an intake and then she wil start seeing an

intern from Temple University as my HMO does not cover anyone competent to

deal with this. Belinda

>From: Bowellen@...

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: How could she know.....

>Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:42:14 EST

>

>Belinda-it is hard to decide what to say and what not. I remember my older

>one wanted to know things at a young age so I answered her questions and

>she

>accepted everything. So, when my younger one started asking ?, I just

>tried

>to answer the exact question she asked. As soon as I did, she said " let's

>talk about this when I am older! " So, that was my hint! It's hard to know

>whether your child is crying out for an explanation or not.... Does the

>therapist give any advice on this? The way I am is real curious about

>things

>my kids say. Even if a child said something like that to a teacher or

>helper, we would immediately asked who they heard that from and what do

>they

>mean so we would find out if they really understood what they were saying.

>Then, probably, we would have them talk to the counselor. How old did you

>say your child is? I don't envy you! Ellen

>

February 27, 2003

Belinda-

My daughter is 12, and also has a 'bad thought' component to her

OCD. I, too, was stunned at some of the thoughts her OCD brought to

mind...unnatural and upsetting things-it really made me wonder about

abuse which I know has not happened. Most of her thoughts are

listed in Tamar Chansky's chapter about bad thought OCD which helped

lower my blood pressure some. (One of them was to kiss her

teachers...I was intrigued to note that your child also had kissing

thoughts). As hard as it is to do, I try to tell her that this is

one of those " junk mail messages to the brain " from OCD; she didn't

have to spend time on it, just 'delete' it...that it was like any

other OCD message...she didn't want it there, it was upsetting; but

by recognizing it as an OCD trick, she had the power to tell it

to 'go away'. I did review with her the basics of sexual act and

what God's plan was for sex...that when she was older she would

understand that it was something special and I was sorry OCD was

trying to take that away from her (as well as taking time away from

her as she needed to wash; taking sleepovers away from her because

she couldn't eat/sleep at someone else's house, etc.) I tried to

keep it in the context of OCD - I told her she needed the facts so

she could boss back OCD. These thoughts have taken somewhat of a

back seat presently...they are too high on her heirarchy of fears to

work on right now. I do think it helped her to realize it was not

her, it was the OCD. Nonetheless, it is very unnerving and

heartwrenching to see your child consumed by such a cruel disease.

You're in my thoughts and prayers-

(Ohio) Anne(12)

February 27, 2003

Hi Belinda, my daughter is another one who at a very young age had disturbing

sexual and violent thoughts due to OCD. She's nine now but had just turned five

when she began telling me the sex-type thoughts along with one that made my

blood run cold, that the terrible thoughts might stop if she cut out her eyes

with a certain knife we had in the kitchen drawer. She told me she didn't want

to do this, but might have to against her will according to the thought.

I urge you to respond to these (very upsetting, I do understand) thoughts calmly

and factually. If you react strongly due to their sexual theme, this can make

the thoughts more frequent or intense and/or convey to your daughter that she

should not share these with you, that just as OCD is telling her, it is bad and

wrong to have these thoughts. In order to benefit from therapy, she must be

willing to share how and what OCD is doing to her. None of us are responsible

for the thoughts we have, but understanding this is doubly important for a kid

with OCD who is being assailed with upsetting and repugnant thoughts that won't

go away.

Try hard to separate out your daughter versus the disorder. This is one reason

it is helpful to have a name or another way to refer to OCD. It gets everyone

away from asking a child why on earth would *you* be thinking about something

like that? Kids often can't explain why they are having an OCD thought, or

where it came from, it's just there and bothering them. There is often no logic

or reason in an OCD obsession. Even if you do figure out what she saw or read

if anything to spark this obsession, that info is not useful to help her

diminish or eliminate having to think it.

I used to lie awake and wish my daughter would just obsess about germs on her

hands rather than this difficult and frightening stuff. (Apologies to those

whose kids do obsess about germs, I realize now of course that there are no

" easy " obsessions. At the time I was overwhelmed and terrified by all the

violent and sexual thoughts swirling through my little girl's head.)

The content of Kellen's obsessions did drive when and what I told my daughter

about sexuality, bodily functions, etc. whatever she was obsessing about. I

still sort of resent that I had to dance to OCD's tune rather than following my

own instincts about this.

It really does get better. Therapy +meds for my child have made a huge

difference in both the intensity and frequency of my child's obsessions. She

still has thoughts but they are pale versions of their former selves and do not

terrorize her as before, more they are a nuisance.

OCD by it's nature causes kids to obsess about unpleasant, bad and frightening

things. So sex, violence, illness, death, hating God, etc. etc. are common

themes. No one would complain I guess about persistent pleasant thoughts such

as vacationing at the seashore.

HTH,

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: Belinda Greiner

I didn't want to confirm it to her Ellen, KWIM? She didn't actually ask

me if it could happen she just said " The worries tell me boys privates can

go in my pivates " but I am wondering if she has guessed that that is how

babies are made and the OCD is sort of just expanding it to her? I just said

" Oh honey you don't have to worry about that " It seems like no matter what

i say it freaks her out and makes her overthing everything so I just didn't

want to confirm it for her. Is that being naive? B

February 27, 2003

Belinda:

I wanted to affirm that I handled these thoughts with my son almost

identically to 's suggestions, and it has helped tremendously to

separate the OCD from who Luke is. Like Kathy mentioned in an earlier post,

it is like these kids have been exposed to porn or something with the yuck

they come up with. I too feel like our kids have been robbed of years of

innocence. However, it is true that the media has shown all kids, normal or

OCD, parts of the body an has insinuated sexual relations that I never saw

until I was much older. But then, I didn't address Algebra until high

school, and Luke had it on his 3rd grade unit 7 math test the other day. Do

you think Unit 8 will cover trig? I may have to rewatch that movie " A

Beautiful Mind " just to be able to help him with his homework by the end of

the year!

Hang in there,

in Missouri (Luke's mom, age 9, OCD/ADD)

Re: How could she know.....

> Belinda-

> My daughter is 12, and also has a 'bad thought' component to her

> OCD. I, too, was stunned at some of the thoughts her OCD brought to

> mind...unnatural and upsetting things-it really made me wonder about

> abuse which I know has not happened. Most of her thoughts are

> listed in Tamar Chansky's chapter about bad thought OCD which helped

> lower my blood pressure some. (One of them was to kiss her

> teachers...I was intrigued to note that your child also had kissing

> thoughts). As hard as it is to do, I try to tell her that this is

> one of those " junk mail messages to the brain " from OCD; she didn't

> have to spend time on it, just 'delete' it...that it was like any

> other OCD message...she didn't want it there, it was upsetting; but

> by recognizing it as an OCD trick, she had the power to tell it

> to 'go away'. I did review with her the basics of sexual act and

> what God's plan was for sex...that when she was older she would

> understand that it was something special and I was sorry OCD was

> trying to take that away from her (as well as taking time away from

> her as she needed to wash; taking sleepovers away from her because

> she couldn't eat/sleep at someone else's house, etc.) I tried to

> keep it in the context of OCD - I told her she needed the facts so

> she could boss back OCD. These thoughts have taken somewhat of a

> back seat presently...they are too high on her heirarchy of fears to

> work on right now. I do think it helped her to realize it was not

> her, it was the OCD. Nonetheless, it is very unnerving and

> heartwrenching to see your child consumed by such a cruel disease.

> You're in my thoughts and prayers-

> (Ohio) Anne(12)

>

> Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group// .

> Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen

Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are

Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy

Mac, Gail Pesses, Kathy , Vivian Stembridge, and Jackie Stout.

Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list

owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... ,

louisharkins@... .

>

February 27, 2003

Thinking about this, do you all remember how kids play " doctor " ?

One other thought on this - when you first take a child to a doctor

or therapist and they're having these type thoughts, remember that

you will most likely be put thru all the questions about " COULD

something have happened to your child???? " to rule out that anyone

has done anything to/with him or her. And remember that those things

actually DO happen to other kids and the professional really needs to

rule these things out, it's part of the job. We're a small county

but I could tell you stories....!!! So take deep breaths and

remember not to get offended and feel on the defensive.

> Belinda:

>

> I wanted to affirm that I handled these thoughts with my son almost

> identically to 's suggestions, and it has helped tremendously

to

> separate the OCD from who Luke is. Like Kathy mentioned in an

earlier post,

> it is like these kids have been exposed to porn or something with

February 27, 2003