Re: OCD and Catholicism

[Guest guest]

Does this mean Catholicism leads to OCD, or that OCD sufferers become Catholic?

:-)

I was raised in a Christian (Ukrainian Orthodox) home. My grandfather (mother's

side) was

a reverend (Ukrainian reverends/priests were allowed to be married.) He was

originally

ordained Catholic, but changed religious practice over time (Presbyterian then

Orthodox.)

He was a professor of theology as well.

Based on his choice of profession, and the mental health issues he and my

grandmother

had as they aged (scrupulosity, hoarding, sense of grandeur (better than

others),

reclusiveness) it makes me wonder if it's connected to OCD (of course they were

never

diagnosed.) OCD definitely runs in the family.

However, I am now a humanist and agnostic, and am raising my children as

such...how

will this play into my daughter's OCD? I suspect I have OCD (mild) as well. It

certainly

didn't play a part in my choosing to dismiss the need for religion in my life.

>

> Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a significant

> number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is certainly

> true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are Catholic, have

> OCD. I think his mother does, too.

>

> I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in. It's a

> relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and beat it.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, I know from where I've researched on scrupulosity that there is

more on Catholic sites about this type OCD, just figured they have

more background on the topic perhaps and recognize it (and maybe have

better info on websites, LOL).

> >

> > Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a

significant

> > number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is

certainly

> > true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are Catholic,

have

> > OCD. I think his mother does, too.

> >

> > I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in. It's

a

> > relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and

beat it.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

**************

I read somewhere that a significant number of folks who struggle with OCD are

Catholic.

**************

We're not and never have been Catholic. But we are church-goers (evangelical)

and the psych has said that Kate is pretty hung up on " morality " and " pleasing

God. " We aren't sure if that is part of her OCD or just what we've taught her.

Beth

[Guest guest]

Hi -

The name of the book I referenced earlier is Rewind, Replay, Repeat by

Jeff Bell, published in 2007. A good book, first person account of life

with ocd. I believe his case was quite severe but you can still learn

from it.

>

> Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a significant

> number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is certainly

> true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are Catholic, have

> OCD. I think his mother does, too.

>

> I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in. It's a

> relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and beat it.

>

[Guest guest]

I think anyone with a more structured or strict religious observance

that emphasizes moral qualities and disciplines will (if they have

OCD) find OCD thinking to negatively affect their religious

observance, at least at some point. Each of my OCD kids have gone

through this (son currently does not attend mass which started as

contamination fears but then takes on guilt aspects as well). It

could also affect the more Orthodox of Jews, Evangelicals,

Protestants etc.

I think people tend to have the OCD (with perfectionism) become

involved in whatever is important to their lives at a certain time.

There is something about the moral disciplines (which I am not saying

are a bad thing) present in some types of religious observance that

lends to OCD perfectionism and black and white thinking-along with

guilt, so what you'd call scrupulosity.

It is not so different than the rules/perfectionism that can occur in

school (getting A's being a perfect student so on) or even in a non-

religious person who desires to be good, or fears being even

inadvertently responsible for anything bad happening.(Like those who

fear hitting someone while driving or fear they may spread germs or

strt a fire etc, if they don't obsessively re-check).

So I don't think religious observance and doctrine is to blame when

getting tied in with OCD (anymore than I would blame tests or grades

in school). A person with OCD might have to work harder at

integrating (maybe using exposures) the meaning of religion and God

in their lives as a positive, and not let the OCD take over where it

becomes instead an obsessive burden.

I have thought about this b/c of coming across people who think

religion is bad for OCD or intensifies it, or even causes it, but why

should people give up their religious observance, which may be a

strong part of their identity or culture, not to mention their

personal beliefs, due to OCD, rather than work at not letting OCD

intrude and control what is meaningful in their lives.

An emphasis on God's mercy and God's understanding of a personal

struggle with anxiety (that is as difficult as any illness that

interferes wih religious observance) helps. I think parents can judge

how to present God's mercy to encourage children dealing with

scrupulosity. Just like with teachers and peers and movies etc, you

try to have some influence on what affects your child, knowing their

personal dispositions and struggles.

Some Catholic priests have specific training in working with OCD b/c

it often comes up more obviously with regard to the sacrament of

penance (and repetitious overly frequent confession or avoiding mass

altogther). A Catholic could call their diocese to get more

information about dealing with scrupulosity.

nancy grace

In , " "

wrote:

>

> Hi, I know from where I've researched on scrupulosity that there is

> more on Catholic sites about this type OCD, just figured they have

> more background on the topic perhaps and recognize it (and maybe

have

> better info on websites, LOL).

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a

> significant

> > > number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is

> certainly

> > > true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are

Catholic,

> have

> > > OCD. I think his mother does, too.

> > >

> > > I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in.

It's

> a

> > > relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and

> beat it.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good response, Grace. It makes sense.

Joy

nancy grace wrote:

I think anyone with a more structured or strict religious observance

that emphasizes moral qualities and disciplines will (if they have

OCD) find OCD thinking to negatively affect their religious

observance, at least at some point. Each of my OCD kids have gone

through this (son currently does not attend mass which started as

contamination fears but then takes on guilt aspects as well). It

could also affect the more Orthodox of Jews, Evangelicals,

Protestants etc.

I think people tend to have the OCD (with perfectionism) become

involved in whatever is important to their lives at a certain time.

There is something about the moral disciplines (which I am not saying

are a bad thing) present in some types of religious observance that

lends to OCD perfectionism and black and white thinking-along with

guilt, so what you'd call scrupulosity.

It is not so different than the rules/perfectionism that can occur in

school (getting A's being a perfect student so on) or even in a non-

religious person who desires to be good, or fears being even

inadvertently responsible for anything bad happening.(Like those who

fear hitting someone while driving or fear they may spread germs or

strt a fire etc, if they don't obsessively re-check).

So I don't think religious observance and doctrine is to blame when

getting tied in with OCD (anymore than I would blame tests or grades

in school). A person with OCD might have to work harder at

integrating (maybe using exposures) the meaning of religion and God

in their lives as a positive, and not let the OCD take over where it

becomes instead an obsessive burden.

I have thought about this b/c of coming across people who think

religion is bad for OCD or intensifies it, or even causes it, but why

should people give up their religious observance, which may be a

strong part of their identity or culture, not to mention their

personal beliefs, due to OCD, rather than work at not letting OCD

intrude and control what is meaningful in their lives.

An emphasis on God's mercy and God's understanding of a personal

struggle with anxiety (that is as difficult as any illness that

interferes wih religious observance) helps. I think parents can judge

how to present God's mercy to encourage children dealing with

scrupulosity. Just like with teachers and peers and movies etc, you

try to have some influence on what affects your child, knowing their

personal dispositions and struggles.

Some Catholic priests have specific training in working with OCD b/c

it often comes up more obviously with regard to the sacrament of

penance (and repetitious overly frequent confession or avoiding mass

altogther). A Catholic could call their diocese to get more

information about dealing with scrupulosity.

nancy grace

In , " "

wrote:

>

> Hi, I know from where I've researched on scrupulosity that there is

> more on Catholic sites about this type OCD, just figured they have

> more background on the topic perhaps and recognize it (and maybe

have

> better info on websites, LOL).

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a

> significant

> > > number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is

> certainly

> > > true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are

Catholic,

> have

> > > OCD. I think his mother does, too.

> > >

> > > I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in.

It's

> a

> > > relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and

> beat it.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I agree. But with it comes back to cursing God and, I

imagine, other bad/sinful thoughts. Where a person knows they should

never curse God or Jesus, or say/think certain things, worst thing

you could do, shouldn't ever commit the " unpardonable sin, etc., so

their OCD has them thinking it. So it's not, with my son, so much

struggling not to sin or be good or perfect, it's the thinking the

thoughts you know are wrong. Also I think some of it is maybe he

thinks something about others, thinks it isn't nice, or " Christian "

and then feels that guilt. But the worst (from the little I can hear

at times) seems to be directed at God or Jesus. For , " grace "

or mercy can't be granted to him.

Typed in a rush, hope it makes some sort of sense!

>

>> An emphasis on God's mercy and God's understanding of a personal

> struggle with anxiety (that is as difficult as any illness that

> interferes wih religious observance) helps. I think parents can

judge

> how to present God's mercy to encourage children dealing with

> scrupulosity. Just like with teachers and peers and movies etc, you

> try to have some influence on what affects your child, knowing

their

> personal dispositions and struggles.

>

> Some Catholic priests have specific training in working with OCD

b/c

> it often comes up more obviously with regard to the sacrament of

> penance (and repetitious overly frequent confession or avoiding

mass

> altogther). A Catholic could call their diocese to get more

> information about dealing with scrupulosity.

>

> nancy grace

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have often wondered how being an Orthodox Jew affects my son and his OCD.

Luckily,

he hasn't shown much scrupulosity. Just a little with his praying. It is my hope

that somehow we can put our observance to work to help him deal with his OCD.

Our clergyman's advice is simply to build my son's self esteem at every possible

opportunity--a bit more generic of an answer than I expected.

Anyway, if our religious practices have driven my son's OCD, I'm not aware of

it.

Re: OCD and Catholicism

I think anyone with a more structured or strict religious observance

that emphasizes moral qualities and disciplines will (if they have

OCD) find OCD thinking to negatively affect their religious

observance, at least at some point. Each of my OCD kids have gone

through this (son currently does not attend mass which started as

contamination fears but then takes on guilt aspects as well). It

could also affect the more Orthodox of Jews, Evangelicals,

Protestants etc.

I think people tend to have the OCD (with perfectionism) become

involved in whatever is important to their lives at a certain time.

There is something about the moral disciplines (which I am not saying

are a bad thing) present in some types of religious observance that

lends to OCD perfectionism and black and white thinking-along with

guilt, so what you'd call scrupulosity.

It is not so different than the rules/perfectionism that can occur in

school (getting A's being a perfect student so on) or even in a non-

religious person who desires to be good, or fears being even

inadvertently responsible for anything bad happening.(Like those who

fear hitting someone while driving or fear they may spread germs or

strt a fire etc, if they don't obsessively re-check).

So I don't think religious observance and doctrine is to blame when

getting tied in with OCD (anymore than I would blame tests or grades

in school). A person with OCD might have to work harder at

integrating (maybe using exposures) the meaning of religion and God

in their lives as a positive, and not let the OCD take over where it

becomes instead an obsessive burden.

I have thought about this b/c of coming across people who think

religion is bad for OCD or intensifies it, or even causes it, but why

should people give up their religious observance, which may be a

strong part of their identity or culture, not to mention their

personal beliefs, due to OCD, rather than work at not letting OCD

intrude and control what is meaningful in their lives.

An emphasis on God's mercy and God's understanding of a personal

struggle with anxiety (that is as difficult as any illness that

interferes wih religious observance) helps. I think parents can judge

how to present God's mercy to encourage children dealing with

scrupulosity. Just like with teachers and peers and movies etc, you

try to have some influence on what affects your child, knowing their

personal dispositions and struggles.

Some Catholic priests have specific training in working with OCD b/c

it often comes up more obviously with regard to the sacrament of

penance (and repetitious overly frequent confession or avoiding mass

altogther). A Catholic could call their diocese to get more

information about dealing with scrupulosity.

nancy grace

In @ yahoogroups. com, " " <@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Hi, I know from where I've researched on scrupulosity that there is

> more on Catholic sites about this type OCD, just figured they have

> more background on the topic perhaps and recognize it (and maybe

have

> better info on websites, LOL).

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Has anyone heard of this link? I read somewhere that a

> significant

> > > number of folks who struggle with OCD are Catholic. This is

> certainly

> > > true in our family. Both husband and daughter, who are

Catholic,

> have

> > > OCD. I think his mother does, too.

> > >

> > > I'll see if I can find the name of the book I read this in.

It's

> a

> > > relatively new one, written by a guy who suffered with it and

> beat it.

> > >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

************************

Also I think some of it is maybe he thinks something about others, thinks it

isn't nice, or " Christian " and then feels that guilt.

******************

This type of thinking appears to be at the root of Kate's recent OCD-ishness.

Last night she was visibly upset but wouldn't tell me why. Finally I had to

agree not to say anything if she told me what was bothering her.

In tears, she finally explained, " I am a little bit mad at Grandpa. And I

shouldn't be mad at him because he's my very favorite Grandpa! He's your

Daddy! " She has expressed several of these, " I shouldn't feel the way I feel "

thoughts when I can drag them out of her. She just sits with a haunted

expression sometimes and won't fess up -- but usually seems to be better after

she gets it off her chest.

What is the proper way to handle those kind of statements? How do you talk back

to that kind of OCD? Fortunately it's very minor at this point but I'd like to

nip it in the bud!

Beth

[Guest guest]

My son's sudden onset of OCD (8 y.o., intrusive thoughts) coincidently

started right after he found out about having to make his first

confession in preparation for his communion. He kept saying he was

afraid my husband or I would go to h*ll, or that God would punish him

for things he was thinking. He couldn't understand what he did that

was so wrong that he needed to confess to a priest. He said to me " I'm

just a kid, what did I do? " So in his mind, he was feeling like every

little thing he was thinking or doing was wrong. My husband and I are

not very religious at all, and the subject of religion very rarely

comes up in our house. But for our son, who always tries to do what's

right, the idea that talking back to mom and dad was considered a sin

that he had to confess was very upsetting for him.

When I had told all of this to his therapist, she told me that she has

so many patients with so many different issues, due to religion, mostly

the catholic church. She said " lots of fear and guilt. " Of course not

everyone is affected by it, but I guess it's common.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Beth. I'm curious, did she have a legitimate reason for being a

little bit mad at Grandpa? Sometimes small children have a hard time

being angry at an adult. I know our son did.

Kate seems to have taken to ERP really well. I'm always impressed at

her age and yet her understanding of what it is she needs to do to

overcome it.

Having said that, I was thinking, if she doesn't have a reason to be

mad at Grandpa, but is having worrisome OCD thoughts, she really seems

to even answer it herself by saying, " I shouldn't feel the way I

feel " . Therefore, she can know that if that is the case, she can

assume it's OCD at work. Once she knows it's her OCD, she can either

boss back those ideas by saying to herself, or even out loud,

something to the affect, " Hush up, OCD! You are wrong again and

trying to fool me. Go away! " . She can figure out what she'd like to

say to boss it. Some younger kids like to name the OCD a funny name

even. Or, in our son's case, at 16, he felt silly doing that, so his

therapist suggested instead that he just reason it out in his mind,

recognize that it is OCD, then disregard it. I've heard it compared

to " junk email " . You see it, you recognize it as junk or spam, so you

delete it. Hope that made sense and hope it helps.

BJ

>

> ************************

> Also I think some of it is maybe he thinks something about others,

thinks it isn't nice, or " Christian " and then feels that guilt.

> ******************

> This type of thinking appears to be at the root of Kate's recent

OCD-ishness. Last night she was visibly upset but wouldn't tell me

why. Finally I had to agree not to say anything if she told me what

was bothering her.

>

> In tears, she finally explained, " I am a little bit mad at Grandpa.

And I shouldn't be mad at him because he's my very favorite Grandpa!

He's your Daddy! " She has expressed several of these, " I shouldn't

feel the way I feel " thoughts when I can drag them out of her. She

just sits with a haunted expression sometimes and won't fess up -- but

usually seems to be better after she gets it off her chest.

>

> What is the proper way to handle those kind of statements? How do

you talk back to that kind of OCD? Fortunately it's very minor at

this point but I'd like to nip it in the bud!

>

> Beth

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

**********************

Hi, Beth. I'm curious, did she have a legitimate reason for being a

little bit mad at Grandpa? Sometimes small children have a hard time

being angry at an adult.

*************

I don't know how valid most adults would think her reason was but, yes, I

believe she had a valid reason for being a little bit angry with grandpa. She

prides herself on her spelling and he pointed out a mistake she made ( " ansewr " )

and then when she " rejeckted " that he pointed out that mistake, too. It was

pretty funny, actually, but she didn't find it so. She took it a bit personally

-- and it was several minutes later that I noticed her " OCD face " and took her

aside. It is clear that, while the conversation at the table had moved on, she

had failed to move on with it. She was obviously stuck and not happy about it.

She gets over it so fast, though. Once we're able to break the moment it passes

with relative ease . . . but sometimes getting to that breaking point can take a

few minutes and sometimes it can take a few days it seems! Just getting her to

recognize it as OCD seems to be the struggle for us but I think she'll get

there. Thanks for the suggestions, BJ!

Beth