Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 That’s the point; with stuff that isn’t FDA regulated, it is important to know something about the company making it to try to ensure it is a reliable product. Sharon From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Dr Levin Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:28 AM To: Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements Curious as I thought factories are NOT REQUIRED to guarantee quality and safety of supplements. Think I'll stick to the meds ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 4:03 AM Subject: RE: Re: selling supplements I’m assuming that people (IMP’s) want to sell stuff to make sure patients are getting high quality products and taking helpful things. Personally, I don’t do this, but may decide to some day. One approach I would be comfortable with, which is similar to Tim’s, I learned from Bob , the Executive Director of the American Board of Integrative Holistic Medicine, and a good guy. http://www.holisticboard.org/B/board_directors.html He actually only sold things that came from factories that he had visited (I’m not willing to go that far, but looking into quality is important); priced stuff much less than “retail”; sold through a separate (from his practice) non-profit corporation that was an educational foundation through which he supported a dietician and health education programs. Cool, huh? I personally am not comfortable profiting over sales of stuff I recommend, but I am willing to have people pay out of pocket for my services, which others are not comfortable with. If by selling Vitamin D and niacin and fish oil, you can support a practice that provides care to others that would not otherwise have it, go for it. Think about how you choose to live and practice and make sure you can sleep at night, understanding that we have to live in this crazy system (while we are changing it). Speaking of which, I should go to bed…. Sharon Sharon McCoy , MD Renaissance Family Medicine 10 McClintock Court, Irvine, CA 92617 Phone: ; Fax: Email: SharonMD@... website: www.SharonMD.com From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Graham Chiu Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:39 AM To: Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements So, it's fine to sell supplements as long as you believe they help the patients. Irregardless of the evidence. And we know that is a moving target. And of course some of the TCM stuff has been around for 1000s of years .... just not investigated so there is only historical evidence. It's highly unlikely that any IMP is going to get rich selling supplements. But say it makes enough to keep the IMP in business. Are they no longer an IMP because what they are now doing is not fully evidence based?? On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Mintek wrote: > I've done lots of bad things in my life, and most of those, I'm not proud > of. But, when I practice medicine, I try to help people, as much as I can. > If a doctor is selling crap to his/her patients, and does not believe that > pill is going to actually help them, but he/she is hoping that sale will > help him/her to get rich, that is just evil. Buy yourself a ticket straight > to doctor-Hell. We should separate the practice of medicine, from the > business of selling medications, to stay away from this kind of moral > morass. -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I thought the best test is would you give it to your mother?Jean Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial and > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga > > > > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements > To: > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and they > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think people > need. > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much I > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. Given > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, inventory, > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow problems: > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. > > Most Sincerely, > Joanne Holland > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was threatening to buy colloidal silver BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to revitalize their skin! > I thought the best test is > would you give it to your mother? > > Jean > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, > wrote: >> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >> >> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial >> > and >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >> > >> > >> > >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >> > To: >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and >> > they >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think people >> > need. >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much I >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. Given >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >> > inventory, >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >> > problems: >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >> > >> > Most Sincerely, >> > Joanne Holland >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ > please note the new email address. > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ > MD > > > ph fax > impcenter.org > > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 MAscara ok, though graham? Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was threatening to buy colloidal silver BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to revitalize their skin! > I thought the best test is > would you give it to your mother? > > Jean > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, > wrote: >> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >> >> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial >> > and >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >> > >> > >> > >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >> > To: >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and >> > they >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think people >> > need. >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much I >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. Given >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >> > inventory, >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >> > problems: >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >> > >> > Most Sincerely, >> > Joanne Holland >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ > please note the new email address. > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ > MD > > > ph fax > impcenter.org > > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Jean I did a few quick searches on pubmed, and only found references to dermatitis, pigmentation etc but no health benefits and definitely no placebo controlled double blind prospective studies. I suggest you remove it from your purse until we have better evidence. We really don't want to compromise our integrity. > MAscara ok, though graham? > > > > >> >> Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was >> threatening to buy colloidal silver >> >> BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to >> selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to >> revitalize their skin! >> >> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:02 AM, >> wrote: >> > I thought the best test is >> > would you give it to your mother? >> > >> > Jean >> > >> > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, >> > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >> >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >> >> >> >> >> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial >> >> > and >> >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >> >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >> >> > To: >> >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on >> >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and >> >> > they >> >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think >> >> > people >> >> > need. >> >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much >> >> > I >> >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. >> >> > Given >> >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >> >> > inventory, >> >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >> >> > problems: >> >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit >> >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >> >> > >> >> > Most Sincerely, >> >> > Joanne Holland >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >> > please note the new email address. >> > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >> > MD >> > >> > >> > ph fax >> > impcenter.org >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Graham Chiu >> http://www.synapsedirect.com >> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. > > > > -- > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ > please note the new email address. > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ > MD > > > ph fax > impcenter.org > > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 http://ezinearticles.com/?Kohl---The-Precursor-to-Modern-Mascara & id=1392963 Ancient Egyptians and bronze age people used Mascara to protect the eyes from small biting insects, and then later on to provide protection against evil spells. So, if you wish, you could find some soot lying around and make your own. > Jean > > I did a few quick searches on pubmed, and only found references to > dermatitis, pigmentation etc but no health benefits and definitely no > placebo controlled double blind prospective studies. > > I suggest you remove it from your purse until we have better evidence. > We really don't want to compromise our integrity. > > >> MAscara ok, though graham? >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was >>> threatening to buy colloidal silver >>> >>> BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to >>> selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to >>> revitalize their skin! >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:02 AM, >>> wrote: >>> > I thought the best test is >>> > would you give it to your mother? >>> > >>> > Jean >>> > >>> > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >>> >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial >>> >> > and >>> >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >>> >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >>> >> > To: >>> >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on >>> >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and >>> >> > they >>> >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think >>> >> > people >>> >> > need. >>> >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much >>> >> > I >>> >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. >>> >> > Given >>> >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >>> >> > inventory, >>> >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >>> >> > problems: >>> >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit >>> >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >>> >> > >>> >> > Most Sincerely, >>> >> > Joanne Holland >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >>> > please note the new email address. >>> > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >>> > MD >>> > >>> > >>> > ph fax >>> > impcenter.org >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Graham Chiu >>> http://www.synapsedirect.com >>> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. >> >> >> >> -- >> If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >> please note the new email address. >> Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >> MD >> >> >> ph fax >> impcenter.org >> >> > > > > -- > Graham Chiu > http://www.synapsedirect.com > Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I mean now we are talkin Graham ! I need all the protection from evil spells that I can get... I got soot creosote is dangerous stuff Causes cancer dontcha know? http://ezinearticles.com/?Kohl---The-Precursor-to-Modern-Mascara & id=1392963 Ancient Egyptians and bronze age people used Mascara to protect the eyes from small biting insects, and then later on to provide protection against evil spells. So, if you wish, you could find some soot lying around and make your own. > Jean > > I did a few quick searches on pubmed, and only found references to > dermatitis, pigmentation etc but no health benefits and definitely no > placebo controlled double blind prospective studies. > > I suggest you remove it from your purse until we have better evidence. > We really don't want to compromise our integrity. > > >> MAscara ok, though graham? >> >> >> >> >>> >>> Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was >>> threatening to buy colloidal silver >>> >>> BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to >>> selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to >>> revitalize their skin! >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:02 AM, >>> wrote: >>> > I thought the best test is >>> > would you give it to your mother? >>> > >>> > Jean >>> > >>> > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >>> >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial >>> >> > and >>> >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >>> >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >>> >> > To: >>> >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on >>> >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian and >>> >> > they >>> >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think >>> >> > people >>> >> > need. >>> >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much >>> >> > I >>> >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. >>> >> > Given >>> >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >>> >> > inventory, >>> >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >>> >> > problems: >>> >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit >>> >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >>> >> > >>> >> > Most Sincerely, >>> >> > Joanne Holland >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >>> > please note the new email address. >>> > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >>> > MD >>> > >>> > >>> > ph fax >>> > impcenter.org >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Graham Chiu >>> http://www.synapsedirect.com >>> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. >> >> >> >> -- >> If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >> please note the new email address. >> Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >> MD >> >> >> ph fax >> impcenter.org >> >> > > > > -- > Graham Chiu > http://www.synapsedirect.com > Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Oh yeah ... I am assuming you don't have testicles, and don't breath while wearing the stuff. > I mean now we are talkin Graham ! I need all the protection from evil > spells that I can get... > > I got soot > creosote is dangerous stuff Causes cancer dontcha know? > > > >> >> >> http://ezinearticles.com/?Kohl---The-Precursor-to-Modern-Mascara & id=1392963 >> >> Ancient Egyptians and bronze age people used Mascara to protect the >> eyes from small biting insects, and then later on to provide >> protection against evil spells. >> >> So, if you wish, you could find some soot lying around and make your own. >> >> >> > Jean >> > >> > I did a few quick searches on pubmed, and only found references to >> > dermatitis, pigmentation etc but no health benefits and definitely no >> > placebo controlled double blind prospective studies. >> > >> > I suggest you remove it from your purse until we have better evidence. >> > We really don't want to compromise our integrity. >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:46 AM, >> > wrote: >> >> MAscara ok, though graham? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Graham Chiu >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then was >> >>> threatening to buy colloidal silver >> >>> >> >>> BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed to >> >>> selling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise to >> >>> revitalize their skin! >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:02 AM, >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > I thought the best test is >> >>> > would you give it to your mother? >> >>> > >> >>> > Jean >> >>> > >> >>> > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, >> >>> > >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you >> >>> >> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one >> >>> >> > vial >> >>> >> > and >> >>> >> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store. >> >>> >> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements >> >>> >> > To: >> >>> >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in >> >>> >> > on >> >>> >> > the side of " Don't Do It. " For thirty years I was a veterinarian >> >>> >> > and >> >>> >> > they >> >>> >> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think >> >>> >> > people >> >>> >> > need. >> >>> >> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how >> >>> >> > much >> >>> >> > I >> >>> >> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription >> >>> >> > feeds. >> >>> >> > Given >> >>> >> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, >> >>> >> > inventory, >> >>> >> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow >> >>> >> > problems: >> >>> >> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you >> >>> >> > hit >> >>> >> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Most Sincerely, >> >>> >> > Joanne Holland >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by >> >>> > email/ >> >>> > please note the new email address. >> >>> > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >> >>> > MD >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > ph fax >> >>> > impcenter.org >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Graham Chiu >> >>> http://www.synapsedirect.com >> >>> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ >> >> please note the new email address. >> >> Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ >> >> MD >> >> >> >> >> >> ph fax >> >> impcenter.org >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Graham Chiu >> > http://www.synapsedirect.com >> > Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. >> > >> >> -- >> Graham Chiu >> http://www.synapsedirect.com >> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. > > > > -- > If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/ > please note the new email address. > Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ > MD > > > ph fax > impcenter.org > > -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. 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Guest guest Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 You mean guys don't ever use products to "revitalize" their skin? Come one. Females aren't the only ones who care about their looks. Kathy SaradarianNew JerseyPractice Partner - EMR since 2003Staff Light - Solo Practice Not for me. My mother was always buying supplements, and then wasthreatening to buy colloidal silver :(BTW, I hope the female members here who are fiercely opposed toselling supplements don't use or purchase cosmetics that promise torevitalize their skin!> I thought the best test is> would you give it to your mother?>> Jean>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:36 PM, > wrote:>>>> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you>> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ?>>>> >> > It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial>> > and>> > then tell pts to get more in a health food store.>> > What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga>> >>> > >> > >> > Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements>> > To: >> > Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on>> > the side of "Don't Do It." For thirty years I was a veterinarian and>> > they>> > sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think people>> > need.>> > At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much I>> > had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. Given>> > expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time,>> > inventory,>> > taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow>> > problems:>> > it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit>> > yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month.>> >>> > Most Sincerely,>> > Joanne Holland>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> --> If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/> please note the new email address.> Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/> MD> > > ph fax > impcenter.org>> -- Graham Chiuhttp://www.synapsedirect.comSynapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Good questions. But statins standard of care, different story. If you don't do it, and patient has heart attack, you will have to justify not doing it when the standards say you should. Someone else made that decision.Rubella, is for herd immunity. There is a known benefit as vaccines are not 100% effective, the smaller the number of people with the disease, the least likely it will be to be around. I also think it's a problem we are only vaccinating females for HPV, half the population will still be running around spreading it, what is the point.Nutritional supplements with most evidence pointing to at least no harm, but questionable good, that is really a different story. PS: I don't sell the statins and I don't really sell the rubella vaccine either. So don't compare apples to oranges. PS: I don't sell cosmetics either but I do use a good moisterizer myself and resent like heck the cost.Kathy SaradarianNew JerseyPractice Partner - EMR since 2003Staff Light - Solo Practice Question, would you prescribe a medication where the NNT is high? eg. statins.Ie. you know that most of your patients will not benefit?Do boys ever get vaccinated against Rubella?> Ethical? Consistent with best interest of patient? Test; would you> still sell them if you were not making a profit at it ?>> >> It is good to know. I don't sell them in bulk but just offer one vial and>> then tell pts to get more in a health food store.>> What made you switch from being a vet? Was it difficult? Inga>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: Re: selling supplements>> To: >> Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:32 PM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this has been covered on the list serve before: I come in on>> the side of "Don't Do It." For thirty years I was a veterinarian and they>> sell lots of stuff over the counter, all of it things they think people>> need.>> At the end of my practice life, I bothered to calculate out how much I>> had made on it carrying medicine, vitamins and prescription feeds. Given>> expiration dates, lost stuff, wrong stuff, damaged stuff, time, inventory,>> taxes on inventory, lost income on investment money and cash flow>> problems:>> it came out to $1.25 an hour profit. You would be happier if you hit>> yourself on the head with a hammer for ten minutes a month.>>>> Most Sincerely,>> Joanne Holland>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Graham Chiuhttp://www.synapsedirect.comSynapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Comparisons are never perfect ... it's because they are different that we do the comparison. I don't sell supplements either but I just don't think the issue is as monochromatic as some here express. > Good questions. But statins standard of care, different story. If you > don't do it, and patient has heart attack, you will have to justify not > doing it when the standards say you should. Someone else made that > decision. And many standards appear to be influenced by the drug companies making the drugs. -- Graham Chiu http://www.synapsedirect.com Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Carly, The "real" Red Yeast Rice is not illegal any more: the company lost the lawsuit in the 1990s some time. They did put the little import company out of business during the process, however. Some sources of "Red Yeast Rice" have the lovastatin in them, depending on the source. The Canadian sources tend to have the "real" stuff as they never had to go through the ten years in court. Joanne Subject: Re: selling supplementsTo: Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 9:23 PM - thanks for the link- I will use this frequently.RE: red yeast rice mentioned in another post... yes, the REAL stuff works and yes, before the FDA made it illegal and the REAL stuff disappeared off shelves, my patients were happy to use it rather than use a terrible statin despite my talk on how it IS a statin and I monitor it the same way. I also warned that there is not as much research on the outcomes on CAD events as we have on statins. Now that the new forms of red yeast rice are being sold (I believe its fermented in a different way and thus does not develop into lovastatin) they are often combined with polycosonals and other supplements that are not as strikingly effective in cholesterol reduction and my patient's panels reflect this. I'm guessing there are some RYR products that are still REAL being sold but technically they are illegal. So for those of you who are recommending them, how are they working for your patients and is there any REAL RYR out there?Carla> > > Doctor''s Vitamin Pharmacy is a very low-key way of selling > > supplements.> > > Pasted in below is my post from December 16, including a > > disclaimer at the> > > end.> > >> > > Marty> >> > -- > > Graham Chiu> > http://www.synapsed irect.com> > Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I am lookinginto it now, how to get a retail number, tax number all that stuff. Anyone in NY state doing this? To: " " < >Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 2:55:09 PMSubject: selling supplements Is this something you do in your office?Any conflicts here?Pharmacists sell lots of stuff in their businesses which areessentially useless ...-- Graham Chiuhttp://www.synapsedirect.comSynapse - the use from anywhere EMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I agree. I plan to sell only things my patients take, with or without my support - multivitamins, Omegas, non of the "fat burners" or "immune supporters". If they are gonna take it anyway, I need the money. And, they will ask more wuestions about all this styuff and be better educated. Even though Iask them, they still often deny taking supp's. To: Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:50:11 PMSubject: Re: Re: selling supplements i think"immune support" is pretty vague and is unfair to patietns and preys on their fears.Leave that to the Stores who knows how to measure immunity as these products claim to enhance it?Can you tell me how we measure boosting immunity?If you want to have a store, fine I do not criticize people who sell stuffbut It is an ethical dilemna if you also claim to practice science based medcine. I don;t think doc s who want people to believe the usefulness of B Blockers and the risks of estrogen and the dangers of untreated htn should be inconsistent whe it comes to what they sell in their front room On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 7:01 PM, izhanna <izhanna2003@ yahoo.com> wrote: I have a big dilemma about selling supplements in my office. On one hand, I want to make sure that the patients will get the right supplements. I have searched for certain supplements for immune support, and good quality probiotics, as well as Ca, vit D, high grade quality omega 3s, etc,; on the other hand, I don't want to be a salesperson. I feel it is not ethical.However, I know few physicians that make good income selling supplements. From: Sangeetha Murthy <sangeethamurthy@ onebox.com>Subject: [Practiceimprovemen t1] Re: selling supplementsTo: Practiceimprovement 1yahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Monday, January 26, 2009, 3:08 PM I have had patients tell me that they have quit Physicians officesthat do that because they felt they were pushed to purchase something..Sangeetha>> Is this something you do in your office?> > Any conflicts here?> > Pharmacists sell lots of stuff in their businesses which are> essentially useless ...> > -- > Graham Chiu> http://www.synapsedirect.com> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.>-- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Selling wine! you're brilliant! To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:05:46 AMSubject: Re: Re: selling supplements I agree about omega 3 absoolutely I was thinking the horse chestnut and what is that tomatoe stuff for prostates .... lycopene! the fuzzier stuff Joann makes a goodpoint about h er experience as a vet Probably make more seeling wine! On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM, izhanna <izhanna2003@ yahoo.com> wrote: I agree with you. However, there is a lot in the literature about omega 3, for example. I used them prior to the time when DHA was incorporated into prenatal vits. So, I don't think we know everything and I always try to tell my patients that. From: Sangeetha Murthy <sangeethamurthy@ onebox.com>Subject: [Practiceimprovemen t1] Re: selling supplementsTo: Practiceimprovement 1yahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Monday, January 26, 2009, 3:08 PM I have had patients tell me that they have quit Physicians officesthat do that because they felt they were pushed to purchase something..Sangeetha>> Is this something you do in your office?> > Any conflicts here?> > Pharmacists sell lots of stuff in their businesses which are> essentially useless ...> > -- > Graham Chiu> http://www.synapsedirect.com> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.>-- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org-- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 well no, I just like wine.I have already talked to the nurses at the nursing home White wine, chocolate, percocet if I need it , maybe a burger when I have to go live there. The rehab director wants to room with me... Selling wine! you're brilliant! To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:05:46 AMSubject: Re: Re: selling supplements I agree about omega 3 absoolutely I was thinking the horse chestnut and what is that tomatoe stuff for prostates .... lycopene! the fuzzier stuff Joann makes a goodpoint about h er experience as a vet Probably make more seeling wine! On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM, izhanna <izhanna2003@ yahoo.com> wrote: I agree with you. However, there is a lot in the literature about omega 3, for example. I used them prior to the time when DHA was incorporated into prenatal vits. So, I don't think we know everything and I always try to tell my patients that. From: Sangeetha Murthy <sangeethamurthy@ onebox.com>Subject: [Practiceimprovemen t1] Re: selling supplements To: Practiceimprovement 1yahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Monday, January 26, 2009, 3:08 PM I have had patients tell me that they have quit Physicians officesthat do that because they felt they were pushed to purchase something..Sangeetha>> Is this something you do in your office?> > Any conflicts here?> > Pharmacists sell lots of stuff in their businesses which are> essentially useless ... > > -- > Graham Chiu> http://www.synapsedirect.com> Synapse - the use from anywhere EMR.> -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org -- If you are a patient please allow up to 24 hours for a reply by email/please note the new email address.Remember that e-mail may not be entirely secure/ MD ph fax impcenter.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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