Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Joe, you bring up some very important factors involved in the vertical jump, most of which I agree with. However, I would like to make a few comments on factors with which I disagree. For example, there is always a counter movement before the jump. You cannot volitionally go into a concentric contraction before preparing the muscles eccentrically, even if it is only momentary and through a minimal range of motion. For example, even sprinters when they're in the blocks move the heel backward before they go forward. The same thing occurs in the vertical jump, you lower yourself before you go upward, but the amount of lowering is minimal. The more pronounced it is, the weaker the athlete is and this is where some training can be directed. As you bring out, vertical jump technique is very important. I have found that there is actually a sequence of actions involved in the jump from trunk extension to knee extension to ankle joint extension. The movements are sequential but yet overlap so that they are partially simultaneous. The greater the distinction, the more effective the jump. For a more detailed analysis of jump technique, I recommend my book, Explosive Running, where I have pictures and detailed descriptions of what takes place in effective jumping, which by the way, is the key to effective plyometrics. In regard to jump training, have you tried increasing strength while maintaining the same vertical jump height? You may find this more effective as you approach the competitive season. Doing strength work at this time without plyometrics usually leads to a decrease in jump height. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yessis, Ph.D President, Sports Training, Inc. www.dryessis.com PO Box 460429 Escondido, CA 92046 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dr Yessis Says: >> Joe, you bring up some very important factors involved in the vertical jump, most of which I agree with. However, I would like to make a few comments on factors with which I disagree. For example, there is always a counter movement before the jump. << Of course there is a counter movement in normal jumping, I didn't mean to suggest that. But, from our video analysis, we have determined that it is possible to learn NOT to use counter movement in vertical jump testing. I believe that this is to be a learned process, and is very useful for testing differences in " esd " or strength vs reactive ability. That is all I use it for. >> " You cannot volitionally go into a concentric contraction before preparing the muscles eccentrically, even if it is only momentary and through a minimal range of motion. " << I agree there may be some - but from our videos we could not see any when we used to test this. Of course there will be a minimal amount. >> As you bring out, vertical jump technique is very important. I have found that there is actually a sequence of actions involved in the jump from trunk extension to knee extension to ankle joint extension. The movements are sequential but yet overlap so that they are partially simultaneous. The greater the distinction, the more effective the jump. For a more detailed analysis of jump technique, I recommend my book, Explosive Running, where I have pictures and detailed descriptions of what takes place in effective jumping, which by the way, is the key to effective plyometrics.<< I have the book - I will take a look. >> In regard to jump training, have you tried increasing strength while maintaining the same vertical jump height? You may find this more effective as you approach the competitive season. Doing strength work at this time without plyometrics usually leads to a decrease in jump height. << Firstly, I do not understand how it is possible to " try " to maintain your jump height - are you saying limiting performance? Jump training (all training for that matter) to me is all about iteratively elminating your weaknesses based on continual testing & evaluation of real-world performance measures. For some athletes, I have found that even in the competitive season they gain marked jump height by performing the appropriate strength work because that is their problem area. But its all about analysis and intervention. If you can't analyse, its impossible to intervene correctly. Joe Cole Dunedin, New Zealand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 I would agree with the moderator's note below regarding Dr. Yessis and other valued members of the list and the occasional need for a more comprehensive answer to some of the questions posed on ST, coupled with the additional comment that promotion of Dr. Mel Siff's works at various intervals and their availability and pricing are also proper to the ST list. It is unreasonable to believe that someone would type in entire excerpts from published studies or their published books but realistically a cited reference aids to the reading in some of our more detailed topics! One other request - could the ST list please be given an update on 's SMART training tapes [The original video is still avaialable and can be purchased from via lislann@...] and list are still available as well as possibly a note from her on how she is doing overall? [i keep asking to post, she says she is doing well, but obviously not ready to get online - DD]. I had someone ask me in a gym recently and I would like to see the information again posted for new ST members if they have need of her help. The Phantom aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter Denver, Colorado, USA It was written: > Can we please do less promoting of our books on these postings. > > Dassie, MS, CSCS > Pleasanton, CA > > [The Supertraining list has a strict policy against blatant advertising or spamming, but I do not believe Dr. Yessis is guilty of this. There is a lot of information that cannot be conveyed across email, due to constraints of time and space. Suggesting that additional information can be found in his or any other resources does not break any ST list policies. JRG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I use the term " try " to maintain strength as you increase jump height because this is what I attempt to do when working with athletes in the precompetitive phase. It is at this time that they are doing high-intensity strength and explosive work. If the strength work is too great, there is a decrease in jump height, thus, adjustments are made constantly. In the general preparatory period when we do considerable strength work, there is always a decrease in jump height. This is to be expected. Increases in jump height will then come after this phase when we get into the explosive training period. We also make adjustments in jump technique, mainly because all increases in strength training change technique. Thus, adjustments are made to keep the jump height at its optimal. We do not work for additional gains in strength during the competitive period. The sport should be of sufficient intensity to maintain jump height and we do not want to interfere with technique. This is especially true of basketball and volleyball players who must also execute an action after the jump. Any significant changes in strength or jump height will show a difference in their ability to execute the actions needed not only in the jump but after the jump. If there are losses in strength, they go on a maintenance program to maintain their strength levels. For more details on my program, see Explosive Basketball Training. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yessis, Ph.D President, Sports Training, Inc. www.dryessis.com PO Box 460429 Escondido, CA 92046 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:23:50 +1300 > > Subject: Re: Vertical Jump > > Dr Yessis Says: > > >> Joe, you bring up some very important factors involved in the vertical > jump, most of which I agree with. However, I would like to make a few > comments on factors with which I disagree. For example, there is always > a counter movement before the jump. << > > Of course there is a counter movement in normal jumping, I didn't mean > to suggest that. But, from our video analysis, we have determined that > it is possible to learn NOT to use counter movement in vertical jump > testing. I believe that this is to be a learned process, and is very > useful for testing differences in " esd " or strength vs reactive ability. > That is all I use it for. > > >> " You cannot volitionally go into a concentric contraction before > preparing the muscles eccentrically, even if it is only momentary and > through a minimal range of motion. " << > > I agree there may be some - but from our videos we could not see any > when we used to test this. Of course there will be a minimal amount. > > >> As you bring out, vertical jump technique is very important. I have > found that there is actually a sequence of actions involved in the jump > from trunk extension to knee extension to ankle joint extension. The > movements are sequential but yet overlap so that they are partially > simultaneous. The greater the distinction, the more effective the jump. > For a more detailed analysis of jump technique, I recommend my book, > Explosive Running, where I have pictures and detailed descriptions of > what takes place in effective jumping, which by the way, is the key to > effective plyometrics.<< > > I have the book - I will take a look. > > >> In regard to jump training, have you tried increasing strength while > maintaining the same vertical jump height? You may find this more > effective as you approach the competitive season. Doing strength work > at this time without plyometrics usually leads to a decrease in jump > height. << > > Firstly, I do not understand how it is possible to " try " to maintain > your jump height - are you saying limiting performance? > > Jump training (all training for that matter) to me is all about > iteratively elminating your weaknesses based on continual testing & > evaluation of real-world performance measures. > > For some athletes, I have found that even in the competitive season they > gain marked jump height by performing the appropriate strength work > because that is their problem area. But its all about analysis and > intervention. If you can't analyse, its impossible to intervene > correctly. > > Joe Cole > Dunedin, New Zealand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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