Re: Question about certification

[Guest guest]

" Your statement about not wanting to take general classes to help you

understand exercise physiology, biomechanics, biochemistry, and

nutrition is disturbing. "

Chad, I said I didn't want to take a LOT of classes, not any.

As I understand it, the ISSA and NSCA require a degree in any field

to take the test. Of course, someone who has taken no classes in

those fields probably wouldn't do too well on the test, but the point

is they don't require a degree in a related filed, just any degree.

The money driven aspect is true of most of them, but I thought the

ACE was non-profit?

Anyway, I wasn't really offended. There are too many meaningless

certifications out there, and too many bad trainers. It was just a

notion of mine. Dangerous things, notions. Sounds like a sore spot.

Regards

Impy McFerguson

Fargo ND

[Guest guest]

On average I'd say a trainer with a degree and NSCA or ACSM

certification would be a better and more knowledgeable trainer but

not always. Knowledge can come from many places other than a

classroom. What the industry needs is standards. Licensure would

set equal standards of knowledge for everyone to ensure anyone with

a personal training " license " was qualified. Fortunately things

look to be moving in that direction.

Here is an article about the NBFE

Addressing Competency Levels for Fitness Professionals

The History of the National Board of Fitness Examiners

The Growth of the Fitness Professional Industry

In response to decades of scientific data demonstrating the benefits

of balanced nutrition and regular exercise for the universal and

targeted prevention of many chronic diseases, the fitness industry

has experienced tremendous growth in a variety of ways. The

abundance of home gym and fitness equipment has exploded. Exercise

video and nutritional supplement sales have skyrocketed. Perhaps the

most dominant source of growth in the multi-billion dollar fitness

industry has been the use of personal trainers in health clubs and

in private studios. Since 1998, the number of Americans belonging to

health clubs has grown over 23 percent or seven million members

according to reports. The American Sports Data, Inc., a company that

specializes in sports and fitness research since 1983, projected

that 4,021,000 people in the United States alone paid for personal

training services in 1998, and that number has significantly

increased each year.

That being said, personal trainers today must assume a higher level

of responsibility for their clients. Personal trainers must ensure

that clients receive the appropriate care and required supervision

as they pursue their individual fitness goals. Liability rests on

fitness professionals, as they are directly responsible for the

safety, health, and wellbeing of their clients.

According to the new National Strength and Conditioning Association

text, Essentials of Personal Training (2004) Dietrich, past

president of the American International Health Industries, stated as

far back as 1983: " There are no licensure requirements or mandated

training programs for health club fitness instructors (as well as

personal trainers), yet who can deny the grave responsibility of an

individual whose job it is to assist people in vigorous exercise and

the use of powerful machines? " Twenty-one years later, the problem

still exists.

The NSCA went on to conclude that " When personal trainers become

thoroughly prepared and truly committed to providing the most

effective exercise programs and the safest training environments,

then this vocational pursuit will deserve the recognition of an

allied health care profession. "

The Problem: The Need for Standardization and Certification at both

the Program and Individual Level

In response to an array of lawsuits resulting from client injury

and, more frighteningly, death, the fitness industry began

scrutinizing the personal fitness profession. Lawsuits have been

brought against personal trainers and health clubs alike. In 2003,

Dan Rather's nationally broadcast story " Who's Training The

Trainers, " sparked a media frenzy that included dozens of nationally

syndicated articles written about the lack of regulations and

standards in the fitness industry. Until recently, the industry did

a fair job " self-regulating " however, the unfortunate reality is

that today, $39.95 " Personal Trainer Certificates " are available

online. Reportedly there are over 200 fitness certification

companies offering education or " personal trainer certifications. "

Unqualified programs compromise the integrity of the industry,

creating problems for qualified personal trainers, health clubs, the

public, and insurance companies.

Recently, several certification organizations have examined external

program accreditation as a means to address these issues. The

International Health & Racquet Sport Association (IHRSA) has led

some of these efforts to help improve the capacity for " self

regulation. " Program accreditation by a third party is a good step

to ensure that certification organizations' educational standards

meet an accepted level of delivery. However, it is also imperative

that an external, unbiased, nationally recognized, standards-based

examination process exist to ensure that all fitness professionals

meet certain levels of competency determined by their scope of

practice.

World-renowned exercise scientists, practicing fitness

professionals, and certification organization heads have stated in

recent polls that they believe our industry is best served by

individual competency evaluations conducted by a national board with

an eye toward eventual state licensing. This model has been

successfully used by Medicine since 1915, when the National Board of

Medical Examiners (NBME) was formed. Today, National Board Exams are

the benchmark for individual competency evaluation by virtually all

medical and allied health care providers.

The Solution: The Creation of the NBFE

The National Board of Fitness Examiners (NBFE) is a not-for-profit

organization that will consist of 18 to 22 members. The NBFE was

founded to fulfill two distinct needs as well as address a series of

ancillary requirements. First, the NBFE will address and define a

series of prescribed " scopes of practice " for fitness professionals.

These definitions will likely include entry-level floor instructors,

group exercise instructors, general personal trainers, specialists

in areas such as youth and senior fitness, and medical exercise

specialists. This paradigm is common in other allied health

professions including nursing, which has defined the roles for

nurses assistants, licensed vocational nurses, registered nurses,

surgical nurses, and nurse practitioners.

The second need that the NBFE will address is determining

the " standards of practice " for each of these roles and assessing

fitness professionals based on those standards. The standards will

be articulated as formal statements of skills and knowledge that are

associated with specific roles in the fitness industry. From these

standards, the Board will generate examinations deployed in a high-

stakes testing environment in partnership with a leading

international testing organization.

While these assessment processes are a critical method to ensure

public safety and improve our industry, we are also sensitive to the

need for health clubs to keep their costs down and hire individuals

with little to no experience; their needs will be addressed. At the

same time, we recognize the need for highly qualified " medical

exercise " specialists that can work with post-rehabilitation

patients. To receive acceptance from traditional medicine, there

must be clear differentiation between the levels of fitness

professionals. Today the title " personal trainer " does not denote

any particular level of competency.

The NBFE plans to work directly with all states and assist with

licensing for fitness professionals as well as promote the state-

licensing model nationwide. The NBFE has already begun conversations

with several individual states to accept the results of the board as

sufficient evidence that these individuals have met a standardized,

nationally-approved level of competency. The NBFE is urging that

fitness professionals who have passed the national boards should be

eligible for state licensing without the need for further

examination. Should any state mandate licensing, it is likely that

they will follow similar protocols used by all medical and allied

health care professions, i.e., utilizing individual competency

assessment by a national board prior to state examinations.

Certainly, lobbying for insurance reimbursement is also a critical

part of the NBFE plan because of the cost savings benefits of having

healthier clients. Furthermore, personal trainer liability insurance

companies recognize that qualified fitness professionals are less of

a risk than non-qualified individuals.

The NBFE will also tirelessly lobby primary care physicians and

chiropractors and the organizations that oversee them to begin

writing prescriptions for exercise. This will not only improve

public health, but over the next five to ten years it will stimulate

tremendous growth for all health clubs and fitness professionals.

The Structure of the NBFE

The NBFE will draw support from five advisory committees: (1)

medicine, (2) certification organizations, (3) fitness

professionals, (4) health clubs, and (5) the military. Each of these

boards will provide recommendations and counsel to the NBFE in their

specific areas of expertise. The Executive Board also provides

appointees to the NBFE to support areas not in the scope of the

Advisory Committees, e.g., legal affairs, business, testing and

psychometrics, etc. The NBFE will provide exam preparation materials

directly to testing candidates and certification organizations. In

the future, this content will be derived from old tests and topic

lists rather than current curricular content, once again, modeling

medicine.

Timeline

As the NBFE has taken shape, there has been overwhelming support

from the medical community, the insurance industry, fitness

professionals, club owners, certification organizations, the public,

the media, the military, and the government. The NBFE anticipates

that the first examinations can take place in the first quarter of

2005. As part of the rollout, NBFE will work closely with

certification organizations, as both the NBFE Advisory Committee

members and as discrete entities, so that the personal trainers

currently working in the industry today will be prepared for the

examination in a realistic time frame.

For further information contact:

E-mail at info@...

Baggett

AR, USA

www.higher-faster-sports.com

Personal Training is a field flooded with individuals that have no

> education and fly by night certifications. This is especially

> troubling to me when I see my students graduate and compete for

jobs

> against low paid labor (ISSA and ACE certified individuals for

> example).

>

[Guest guest]

Actually I am familiar with it. And one, it has only been around

since 1997. Two, I have never seen it asked for, required, or

suggested for employment. Three, it is not recognized by any

authority as a reputable certification.

The min. requirements are high school biology, math and english.

While I do like the longer 3 semester approach to education. It is

inteded to REPLACE kinesiology based programs, and trims it down to

only " relevant " subject matter to Personal Training.

In addition there is no gen chem, organic, biochem, human

physiology, exercise testing or exercise prescription.

A step in the wrong direction. Nothing more than a quick fix.

Chad Touchberry

Midwestern State University

Wichita Falls, TX 76302

> > Hi,

> >

> > I've been toying with the idea of becoming a trainer of some

sort. Is

> > there any way to figure out which certifications are which and

what

> > ones are worth pursuing? It's like alphabet soup but I think

it could

> > be quite rewarding to take a lumpy person and help them put on

some

> > muscle.

> >

> > But I don't want to take a lot of chemistry or biology courses

at a

> > college level either. So I thought maybe there was a middle

ground

> > which would suffice. I have a passion for lifting and the

science

> > behind it. But maybe I'm just wasting my time with the notion.

> >

> > Any ideas?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Impy McFerguson

> > Fargo, ND

>

>

>

> Modify or cancel your subscription here:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

>

> Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of

residence if you

> wish them to be published!

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

>

[Guest guest]

Since we are on the topic of certifications....I have a question about one

that I know little about but recognized that several of the strength coaches

at the University of Tennessee have the letters SCCC after their names. Can

anyone tell me more about this certification or organization...I am having

trouble locating much information.

Your help is much apprciated!!!

Steve M.Ed., CSCS, USAW

Faculty Instructor

School of Health Sciences and Human Performance

Lynchburg College

Lynchburg, Virginia

Re: Question about certification

" Your statement about not wanting to take general classes to help you

understand exercise physiology, biomechanics, biochemistry, and

nutrition is disturbing. "

Chad, I said I didn't want to take a LOT of classes, not any.

As I understand it, the ISSA and NSCA require a degree in any field

to take the test. Of course, someone who has taken no classes in

those fields probably wouldn't do too well on the test, but the point

is they don't require a degree in a related filed, just any degree.

The money driven aspect is true of most of them, but I thought the

ACE was non-profit?

Anyway, I wasn't really offended. There are too many meaningless

certifications out there, and too many bad trainers. It was just a

notion of mine. Dangerous things, notions. Sounds like a sore spot.

Regards

Impy McFerguson

Fargo ND

Modify or cancel your subscription here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups <http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups>

Don't forget to sign all letters with full name and city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Could you please elaborate on your program Coach

Steve M.Ed., CSCS, USAW

Faculty Instructor

School of Health Sciences and Human Performance

Lynchburg College

Lynchburg, Virginia

Re: Re: Question about certification

Quote:

" That being said, the only two worth a damn are the NSCA CSCS, and

the ACSM H/Fi certification. Both require a college degree. I base

this on not only my own hiring practices, but also those of my peers. "

The majority of my class who just graduated the NAIT PFT Diploma program

could easily change your mind. Have you ever worked with someone with the

NAIT PFT qualification? It doesn't sound like it. I understand your disdain

for terribly underqualified " trainers " but to say that EVERYTHING but CSCS

and ACSM is worthless is incorrect.

, NAIT-PFT and CFC

DeepSquat@...

Edmonton, Alberta

Canada

Re: Question about certification

I apologize in advance for this reply if you find it offensive, but

I do find your question offensive.

Your statement about not wanting to take general classes to help you

understand exercise physiology, biomechanics, biochemistry, and

nutrition is disturbing.

Personal Training is a field flooded with individuals that have no

education and fly by night certifications. This is especially

troubling to me when I see my students graduate and compete for jobs

against low paid labor (ISSA and ACE certified individuals for

example).

That being said, the only two worth a damn are the NSCA CSCS, and

the ACSM H/Fi certification. Both require a college degree. I base

this on not only my own hiring practices, but also those of my peers.

ACE, ISSA and the rest of the other alphabet soup of certifications

out there are fly by night, worthless, money driven, profit hungry,

pieces of toilet paper.

There is a significant push currently by individual states to

require trainers to have a BS and a reputable certification, and

also a push for state control (as there is for massage, pt, ot ,

md's ect...).

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Otherwise, take

your apathy to another profession.

Chad Touchberry

Midwestern State University

Wichta Falls, TX, 76302

> Hi,

>

> I've been toying with the idea of becoming a trainer of some sort. Is

> there any way to figure out which certifications are which and what

> ones are worth pursuing? It's like alphabet soup but I think it could

> be quite rewarding to take a lumpy person and help them put on some

> muscle.

>

> But I don't want to take a lot of chemistry or biology courses at a

> college level either. So I thought maybe there was a middle ground

> which would suffice. I have a passion for lifting and the science

> behind it. But maybe I'm just wasting my time with the notion.

>

> Any ideas?

>

> Thanks

>

> Impy McFerguson

> Fargo, ND

[Guest guest]

---

Hi Steve!

The NSCA-CPT exam is in my opinion (I am on the exam development committee for

both CSCS and NSCA-CPT exams) as difficult as the CSCS exam. The passing rate

is currently around 60% for the CPT exam which is significantly lower than the

CSCS exam.

One reason is that 2/3 of those taking the CPT exam do not have degrees. While

the value of the CPT exam may be perceived to be lower than the CSCS due to

degree requirements the difficulty of the exams are very comparable.

Best wishes!

Dan Wathen,

Youngstown (OH) State University

In Supertraining , " , (Athl/Media) " <smith.s@l...>

wrote:

> Coach Touchberry and anyone else!

>

> I am CSCS and Club Coach and Sports Performance Coach certified from USAW

> and currently my wife is considering becoming certified from the NSCA

> (C-PT). Would you consider the C-PT certification garbage because it does

> not require a degree/ even though it is the same certifying body as the

> CSCS?

>

> Furthermore, do you consider the USAW certification garbage because it does

> not require a degree.

>

> Just so I don't get slammed with negative comments, my wife has a B.A. in

> Health Promotion and a M.Ed., in Sports Management, so she is educated and

> is trying to be a part of the solution...

>

> She was going to go to the Institute in Dallas to become certified

> but the total expense there would have been in excess of $1600. From my

> understanding this certification is reputable but not very marketable. I

> believe that Dr. wrote the ACSM guidelines.

>

> Your feedback is welcomed and your passion for your profession is

> appreciated. I think there are too many fly by the seat of your pants

> certifications out there that are more concerned with $$$ than with quality

> professionals.

>

>

> Steve M.Ed., CSCS, USAW

> Faculty Instructor

> School of Health Sciences and Human Performance

> Lynchburg College

>

> Lynchburg, Virginia

[Guest guest]

---

Hi Pete!

The NCCA regulates how exams are developed and administered along with how the

organization that developes the exam is structured and governed. The NCCA does

not regulate the difficulty of the material in the exams. This is where the

differences lie.

Best wishes!

Dan Wathen,

Youngstown (OH) State University

In Supertraining , " Pete McCall " <ptmccall@h...> wrote:

> This is a huge topic in the fitness industry right now. What really

> concerns me is that ACE has just received the same seal of

> accrediation from the NCCA (national commission of cerifying

> agencies) that the NSCA has. In my mind this immediately signals

> that the NCCA " seal of approval " is quite subjective. How can the

> NSCA--which requires a practical component to their testing be graded

> by the same standards as ACE--which does not?

>

> While I am both ACE and NSCA-CSCS certified, I took the ACE test

> (with no practical component) as an entry to the fitness industry,

> but realized pretty quickly that it doesn't mean much. What you

> learn from ACE is more relevant to safety and liability of being a

> trainer and only the bare minimum for program design. Your statement

> is crude, but does accurately describe the ACE certification.

>

> In order to be taked seriously in this business, one should sit for

> the NSCA-CSCS. The strength is that you need a 4-year degree to be

> eligible and it covers all aspects including facility management.

> What the CSCS does lack is a component that makes it directly

> applicable to the fitness industry. Of all the info the NSCA

> requires one to know for the CSCS, how to directly apply it to a

> client in a personal training setting is not part of it. Nor should

> it be since it is a cert primarily for the conditioning side of

> things. Still, when people ask what cert to get, I immediately

> recommend NSCA.

>

> As a trainer of fitness staff for a large health club company, the

> issue of appropriate standards of training is an important one to

> me. Personally I would like to see some sort of state oversight. If

> one needs a state license to cut hair the fact that any rockhead can

> call themselves a " personal trainer " is a little scary. The reason I

> got into training our staff is to 1) ensure some sort of quality

> control for who we hire and put in front of members 2) stress the

> importance of education to anyone wishing to pursue a career in the

> fitness field.

>

> Some of the people who try to become trainers scare me. Many have

> the attitude of the original post-- " I'd like to take a lumpy person

> and help them put on some muscle " while others just want the

> opportunity to cruise the fitness floor for social companionship,

> either way what I tell them is: " learn this phrase, welcome to

> starbucks may I take your order? " b/c I DO NOT want them working the

> same floor as me.

>

> To be a successful trainer, one MUST understand the science behind

> what exercise does to a body. This does not mean the complete

> understanding of molecular biochem, but a competent trainer should be

> able to explain the science and rationale behind ANY exercise that

> they ask a client to do. If a trainer can not explain why the client

> is doing the exercise, or what exactly the desired outcome is, they

> have no business asking someone to do that exercise.

>

> What does the strength and conditioning field think of this? Should

> we have some sort of state licensing? This would be a way to

> immediately disqualify many unscrupulous/unqualified characters from

> entering our field. Morticians and food handlers need state

> licensing. They handle what we eat, and our dead corpses, so it only

> makes sense that those of us who are paid to place the stress of

> exercise on people exercise should have some sort of government

> oversight.

>

> I'm a not a fan of big government--the less govt, the better in my

> opinion, it is just that we need some professional qualifications

> because the current system does not provide this. It is simply a

> money-factory for the " certifications " already out there. We should

> not let out-of-shape bureaucrats dictate standards, as trainers we

> need to start establishing these standards ourselves, and another

> alphabet-organization to add to the soup is not the way to go.

> Feedback? What do other countries require?

>

> Pete McCall, CSCS

> Washington, DC (where else?) USA

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with statement number one, but more rigid certifications

also improve the quality of the people that have it.

As for statement number 2, no...you are not qualified. For the same

reason that I am not qualified to dispense drugs to the public. I

find it interesting how you feel your more than qualified to work in

my field, but would be, I am sure opposed to me working in yours.

I mean, why cant I? I took 6 courses from the Pharm Department at

the University of Pittsburgh, hey and I even read a book on

pharmacology once. Aaaaaaaand I have experience taking in

medicine....so why can't I be a pharmacist?

I often wonder why one can see one side of an argument, but not the other.

Chad Touchberry

Midwestern State University

Wichita Falls, TX 76302

> 1. Any certification is only as good as the person behind it. So

quit the complaining and lead by example. Trust the marketplace.

People aren't dumb if someone doesn't know what they're doing

eventually people figure it out. It's a free country with a free

marketplace. Caveat emptor. At the end of the day the people who go

to Bally's have to ask themselves why they didn't seek out something

better. Because it's out there.

>

> 2. I have a B.S. in Chemistry and a Ph.D. in Pharmacology, I have

authored book chapters and 10+ peer reviewed journal articles and

I, in your opinion, am appalling your sensibilities by sitting for

the CSCS and training athletes, because my degree isn't in exercise

science or in " your field " . Interesting? Who is it that's

undermining the field, I suppose there is nothing you or anyone else

could learn from anyone with a degree outside of " your field " ?

>

> Fabricant

> Chicago, Illinois

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with the respondent below with regard to a science degree in

something other than exercise science hardly being a detracting factor in

certifying people with the CSCS... I believe several of the ST population

hold advanced degrees in Physics and other scientific disciplines yet have

not gone out and specifically got an exercise science or other more

specifically exercise driven degree.

Oh and perhaps we should (those of us with say, Physics as a major) be

actually congratulated for passing the very challenging CSCS testing without

the benefit of a 4 year degree focused ONLY on exercise science? People WITH

the 4 year exercise degree also fail the CSCS exam as well?

Mel was the one who encouraged me to take the NSCA exam, he felt my

background as an athlete and student of the ST list was sufficient to pass.

He was correct, I passed on my first try.

Why should those who have been given 4 year degrees in other sciences be

prevented from earning a qualification from NSCA if they can pass the test?

I find the idea silly and quite possibly indicative of turf protection that

is embarassing if it ever comes to pass! I see no true logic in my going

back to college at the inflated and unrealistic pricing now prevalent to

gain a 4 year degree I am not using to earn a living, merely to humor the

egos of those who feel unhappy that I can pass the test without it? (sorry

that IS my opinion). I see exclusionary behavior as a great setback to the

field, not an enhancement. I also don't think the degree existed back when

I was in school, what about that one! People change over time and we go

into new fields, one's college degree does not necessarily provide all the

training or complete focus for an entire lifetime!

However I'd also like to say one more thing here. In my opinion, the CSCS

should not be limited solely to 4 year science degrees, but also to any 4

year degree who can pass the exam. Why is this? Well, I do not believe I'd

be any less capable of passing the exam were my major in college long ago to

be History or English, or any other pursuit.

Do we do our sport a disservice by denying those who say, major in

Education? Cannot a future Poet Laureate majoring in English also be an

athlete, and coach other athletes?

I believe that the best trainers and coaches are people who combine good

skills of coaching and the experience necessary to make choices based on

what the goals of the athlete involved are. I don't think these are

received magically with a 4 year degree in anything. Field experience

cannot be replaced.

I think the attempt to exclude experienced and knowledgeable people in any

profession solely based on an arbitrary and in most cases, unnecessary

degree, is snobbery pure and simple. There, send the hate mail to me....

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS (earned with Physics degree)

Private Strength Coach and Massage Therapist by profession

Denver, Colorado, USA

It was previously written:

> 1. Any certification is only as good as the person behind it. So quit the

complaining and lead by example. Trust the marketplace. People aren't dumb

if someone doesn't know what they're doing eventually people figure it out.

It's a free country with a free marketplace. Caveat emptor. At the end of

the day the people who go to Bally's have to ask themselves why they didn't

seek out something better. Because it's out there.

>

> 2. I have a B.S. in Chemistry and a Ph.D. in Pharmacology, I have

authored book chapters and 10+ peer reviewed journal articles and I, in

your opinion, am appalling your sensibilities by sitting for the CSCS and

training athletes, because my degree isn't in exercise science or in " your

field " . Interesting? Who is it that's undermining the field, I suppose there

is nothing you or anyone else could learn from anyone with a degree outside

of " your field " ?

>

> Fabricant

> Chicago, Illinois