Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hi Bruce, First I want to say that my understanding of CODEX is a bit different then yours. I have gathered my info from someone who is an attorney, sits on the table of the Council for Responsible Nutrition. He is an owner of a very large supplement Manufacturer, so he has everything to lose if what you are saying is true. He helps sway the vote on this issue of CODEX. He is not concerned at all about this and thinks it is a good thing, the last time I heard him talk was last week. There seems to be conflicting ideas on this forum because yesterday when the subject of "Glyconutrients" was mentioned people started screaming "Double Blind studies please". If everyone is so concerned with the saftey of simple food supplements such as Glyconutrients, then these regulations should be welcomed. You simple cannot have it both ways. Even though I do not believe things are coming down the way you say they are, companies that already have these standards in place are not concerned at all. I for one think it is a good thing to have all these small fly by night companies either get Good Manufacturing Practices or close down.. The estimates right now are there are 20,000 companies supplying supplements, 2,000 of these companies supply 80% of the market. When these regulations come down, there will be 2,000 companies left and they will dominate the market. I guess for companies not in the 2,000 they are the ones who are the most upset. Yes there are some very good small companies with very high standards, but the majority are crooks giving people the idea that supplements don't work. Some of these inferior products can actually harm people and this is not right.People are always asking for cheap, and how can you have high quality ingredients, strict testing and quality assurance turn out cheap?? Again you can't have it both ways. So what do you think is an answer?? Do you want double blind studies or not?? If not quit asking for them when it comes to simple food supplements. Double blind studies are for toxic drugs and even then we have seen the results from these so called "safety tested" drugs. I will look forward to having only reputable companies who practices GMP's making supplements available. I know how to find these companies now, but most do not. -- [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX For those of you who have not been following the under-publicized event called CODEX, here is a short course. As of 1 August in Europe, more than ¾ of everything we consider readily accessible as a vitamin, mineral, or supplement will be banned from sale. This is not a joke. This is not a misprint or mistake. It is absolute FACT! While we sat here in the U.S., fat, dumb, and happy, the World Trade Organization, the World Health Organization, and our own wonderful government have sold us and the majority of the world down the tubes for the benefit of big dollars in the pharmaceutical industry. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not anti-business. I am not even anti medical establishment. I am simply stating the facts as they exist at this moment in time. Without going into lots of ugly detail that is easily obtainable, what is happening is that unless you, as a manufacturer are willing to foot the bill for extensive testing to “prove” your supplements are not harmful, they will be banned from manufacture and distribution. So, you won’t even be able to give them away because you will be guilty of a federal crime. Now we have a law on the books called DESHA that was supposed to protect our rights as citizens of this country from the threat of loosing our vitamins, minerals and supplements. The FDA was stopped dead in their tracks as long as those manufacturing and distributing supplements did not make claims that the products are treating or curing diseases. And, unless someone died of gross negligence on the part of the manufacturer or distributor, all of our supplements can (as of right now) be sold as nutritional supplements. End of story. However, when congress votes tonight or tomorrow, or no later than Friday on passing CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement) and it passes, article 6 within those pages of free trade garbage will force our government to comply with ALL of the regulations set down by the World Trade Organization and that includes CODEX as defined by the World Health Organization. So what, you say? Well the short story version is that DESHA will be thrown out because it is in conflict with the rulings of the world court and the WTO. That means that all of our supplements will either have to be federally tested and approved or they will cease to exist. Time and space for only 1 example: Iron is something that most people really do get enough of in their diet. Most iron deficiencies are not really deficiencies, but rather the inability of the body to utilize the iron that is already present. Lets just set that aside for the moment. Because too much iron in your diet can be harmful, the WHO through the auspices of the WTO have proclaimed that any product with IRON in it will be banned unless there is incontrovertible proof in studies done to the satisfaction of the FDA (in the US) that the level of iron present in the product in question is safe. That means that unless you pony up the dollars, your basic multi-vitamin with iron will become a thing of the past unless you purchase a pharmaceutical company version of it WITH A PRESCRIPTION FROM YOUR DOCTOR! Are you getting the picture? Where is the money trail? Who is protected from what? And who is laughing all the way to the bank? I just got off the phone with one of my friends in the UK who is a supplier of supplements I recommend to people fighting cancer. I use the product myself. The UK health agency has gone to him and told him that in order for his 2 products to remain on the market (never mind that he has hundreds of users who have never shown a side effect and the products themselves have a 200 year safe history), he will have to pay over $3,000,000 (US equivalent) per item for testing. He told me that he never expected to gross that amount let alone net and still have profit left over. What are his options? None. Will the 49 documented studies published on PUBMED have any bearing on this decision? NO. The reality is that if he continues to sell his products in the UK, he will go to jail. That is what is coming here. Most vitamin, mineral, and supplement suppliers are little mom and pop type operations. (less than 50 employees). Most have multiple products. Guess what is going to happen to them in 3 years? What is going to happen to your supplement supply in 3 years? Are you getting the picture? The clock is at the 11th hour plus. Within the next 3 or 4 days, the whole game is about to finish. Win or loose, the game will be over. We are not going to be able to go back and reset the clock. We are not going to be able to take another vote. WAKE UP PEOPLE. There is precious little time left. The senate passed CAFTA on 2 July. The president signed the CAFTA bill last year pending ratification in congress. All that is left for this nightmare to begin is one little vote in congress and our rights are tubed again. Get on the phone, get to your emails, whatever it takes but contact everyone and anyone you can think of to fight this. Contact your congressman. Contact all the congressmen from your state and tell them to vote NO on CAFTA because of article 6, CODEX. Of course you can choose to be complacent because there are only a couple of things you use. So what. Your Dr can write a scrip for your vitamins and the insurance company will pick up all but the copay. So what? Well, the little guy gets screwed again. Your complacency will effect all of us. It is not too late, but there is only moments before this is yet another opportunity lost. Where do you Stand? Can you justify sitting on your hands while more of your freedoms are stripped away? Can you excuse yourself from this because you just don’t want to get involved? I work with terminal people every single day that are staying alive only because of supplements. The mainstream medical community has already condemned them to death. What happens when that becomes you? How will you feel about it then? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net _____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Nowhere did I ever call for or express an opinion that double blind placebo studies have much relevance in medicine. I will not debate the issue, because this is not the forum for that. There are dozens of books published on the fallacy of such studies; the skewing of statistics; the loading of test parameters, etc… Even the AMA and the FDA no longer call for them in chemo because they are worthless tests. CHEMO today is tested by comparing one known drug against an unknown or a combination of the known and unknown. Nobody in their right mind would agree to participate in a test where you have a 50/50 chance of getting no help. Right now, they are even having trouble getting people to fill chemo trials with known parameters simply because of the toxicity and the prior history of falsified documentation by some of the major hospitals in the world. This is all part of public record, not something I am making up. At no time did I ever state that glyconutrients were bad or needed to be studied. I have recommended the use of them to several people and think that when the condition warrants, they are the right thing to do. I do object to your misconstruing my call for studies. If I have made that statement anywhere, please show me and I will bow and scrape and apologize humbly. As long as you brought up the subject, you were the one who stated that anything other than Manatech glyconutrients were inferior. Would you like me to send you a copy of what you wrote? That in itself is a misrepresentation of fact! The fact is that we have DESHA in place. Perhaps you are not aware of the regulations that surround it? Is there a need for more, if so why? I am a very strong supporter of DESHA. I go out of my way to be sure to never make claims about curing anything. I go out of my way to be sure that people understand the risks involved in any supplemental regimen. Yet, what I see from a number of people that represent and/or sell products (which I do not do) is touting them as salvation in a bottle. That is wrong, regardless of how big or small the company; how good or bad the product. That is exactly what DESHA is supposed to prevent and properly enforced, it shuts down or brings into compliance companies that make unjustified claims for cure or treatment. I have no problem with that. Do you? Companies are already required by DESHA to report errant behavior, toxicity issues, etc…Failure on their part to do so can land them in jail and shut the company down. What more do you want? I deal with a number of places that manufacture products that are quite large and well known and they also seem somewhat upset. There is a unnecessary burden being placed upon the consumer in the guise of protecting us from ourselves. Why are you so hell bent on adding additional costs and restrictions? Every single day, there is an assault on our freedoms to choose what we wish to use for ourselves. The last published statistics I have from the FDA on deaths by drugs show that in 2003, 32 people died from all forms of vitamin, mineral, and supplement miss-use, abuse, or misapplication. In the same year, over 23,000 people died from miss-use, abuse, or misapplication of prescription drugs that are heavily regulated and controlled. Which is more dangerous to society? More people take vitamins, minerals, and supplements by a majority of 3:1 over conventional, prescribed medications. (AMA numbers from 2002) Who is more endangered by ready access to supplements? The general population or corporations? Yes, you can bet I am upset by the potential of CODEX passing. Everyone should be simply because of governmental interference and restrictions. Get the government out of my life and stay out with more mandated safety features. Let me and tens of thousands of others treat themselves as they see fit. I work almost exclusively with terminal cancer people who have already been written of by the medical profession. You are telling me that by removing what they choose to use, you re going to make their lives better and safer? I think not. The same goes for anyone who wishes to use a supplement of choice. Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Kindscher (Charter) Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 6:16 PM low dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX Hi Bruce, First I want to say that my understanding of CODEX is a bit different then yours. I have gathered my info from someone who is an attorney, sits on the table of the Council for Responsible Nutrition. He is an owner of a very large supplement Manufacturer, so he has everything to lose if what you are saying is true. He helps sway the vote on this issue of CODEX. He is not concerned at all about this and thinks it is a good thing, the last time I heard him talk was last week. There seems to be conflicting ideas on this forum because yesterday when the subject of " Glyconutrients " was mentioned people started screaming " Double Blind studies please " . If everyone is so concerned with the saftey of simple food supplements such as Glyconutrients, then these regulations should be welcomed. You simple cannot have it both ways. Even though I do not believe things are coming down the way you say they are, companies that already have these standards in place are not concerned at all. I for one think it is a good thing to have all these small fly by night companies either get Good Manufacturing Practices or close down.. The estimates right now are there are 20,000 companies supplying supplements, 2,000 of these companies supply 80% of the market. When these regulations come down, there will be 2,000 companies left and they will dominate the market. I guess for companies not in the 2,000 they are the ones who are the most upset. Yes there are some very good small companies with very high standards, but the majority are crooks giving people the idea that supplements don't work. Some of these inferior products can actually harm people and this is not right.People are always asking for cheap, and how can you have high quality ingredients, strict testing and quality assurance turn out cheap?? Again you can't have it both ways. So what do you think is an answer?? Do you want double blind studies or not?? If not quit asking for them when it comes to simple food supplements. Double blind studies are for toxic drugs and even then we have seen the results from these so called " safety tested " drugs. I will look forward to having only reputable companies who practices GMP's making supplements available. I know how to find these companies now, but most do not. -- [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX For those of you who have not been following the under-publicized event called CODEX, here is a short course. As of 1 August in Europe, more than ¾ of everything we consider readily accessible as a vitamin, mineral, or supplement will be banned from sale. This is not a joke. This is not a misprint or mistake. It is absolute FACT! While we sat here in the U.S., fat, dumb, and happy, the World Trade Organization, the World Health Organization, and our own wonderful government have sold us and the majority of the world down the tubes for the benefit of big dollars in the pharmaceutical industry. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not anti-business. I am not even anti medical establishment. I am simply stating the facts as they exist at this moment in time. Without going into lots of ugly detail that is easily obtainable, what is happening is that unless you, as a manufacturer are willing to foot the bill for extensive testing to “prove” your supplements are not harmful, they will be banned from manufacture and distribution. So, you won’t even be able to give them away because you will be guilty of a federal crime. Now we have a law on the books called DESHA that was supposed to protect our rights as citizens of this country from the threat of loosing our vitamins, minerals and supplements. The FDA was stopped dead in their tracks as long as those manufacturing and distributing supplements did not make claims that the products are treating or curing diseases. And, unless someone died of gross negligence on the part of the manufacturer or distributor, all of our supplements can (as of right now) be sold as nutritional supplements. End of story. However, when congress votes tonight or tomorrow, or no later than Friday on passing CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement) and it passes, article 6 within those pages of free trade garbage will force our government to comply with ALL of the regulations set down by the World Trade Organization and that includes CODEX as defined by the World Health Organization. So what, you say? Well the short story version is that DESHA will be thrown out because it is in conflict with the rulings of the world court and the WTO. That means that all of our supplements will either have to be federally tested and approved or they will cease to exist. Time and space for only 1 example: Iron is something that most people really do get enough of in their diet. Most iron deficiencies are not really deficiencies, but rather the inability of the body to utilize the iron that is already present. Lets just set that aside for the moment. Because too much iron in your diet can be harmful, the WHO through the auspices of the WTO have proclaimed that any product with IRON in it will be banned unless there is incontrovertible proof in studies done to the satisfaction of the FDA (in the US) that the level of iron present in the product in question is safe. That means that unless you pony up the dollars, your basic multi-vitamin with iron will become a thing of the past unless you purchase a pharmaceutical company version of it WITH A PRESCRIPTION FROM YOUR DOCTOR! Are you getting the picture? Where is the money trail? Who is protected from what? And who is laughing all the way to the bank? I just got off the phone with one of my friends in the UK who is a supplier of supplements I recommend to people fighting cancer. I use the product myself. The UK health agency has gone to him and told him that in order for his 2 products to remain on the market (never mind that he has hundreds of users who have never shown a side effect and the products themselves have a 200 year safe history), he will have to pay over $3,000,000 (US equivalent) per item for testing. He told me that he never expected to gross that amount let alone net and still have profit left over. What are his options? None. Will the 49 documented studies published on PUBMED have any bearing on this decision? NO. The reality is that if he continues to sell his products in the UK, he will go to jail. That is what is coming here. Most vitamin, mineral, and supplement suppliers are little mom and pop type operations. (less than 50 employees). Most have multiple products. Guess what is going to happen to them in 3 years? What is going to happen to your supplement supply in 3 years? Are you getting the picture? The clock is at the 11th hour plus. Within the next 3 or 4 days, the whole game is about to finish. Win or loose, the game will be over. We are not going to be able to go back and reset the clock. We are not going to be able to take another vote. WAKE UP PEOPLE. There is precious little time left. The senate passed CAFTA on 2 July. The president signed the CAFTA bill last year pending ratification in congress. All that is left for this nightmare to begin is one little vote in congress and our rights are tubed again. Get on the phone, get to your emails, whatever it takes but contact everyone and anyone you can think of to fight this. Contact your congressman. Contact all the congressmen from your state and tell them to vote NO on CAFTA because of article 6, CODEX. Of course you can choose to be complacent because there are only a couple of things you use. So what. Your Dr can write a scrip for your vitamins and the insurance company will pick up all but the copay. So what? Well, the little guy gets screwed again. Your complacency will effect all of us. It is not too late, but there is only moments before this is yet another opportunity lost. Where do you Stand? Can you justify sitting on your hands while more of your freedoms are stripped away? Can you excuse yourself from this because you just don’t want to get involved? I work with terminal people every single day that are staying alive only because of supplements. The mainstream medical community has already condemned them to death. What happens when that becomes you? How will you feel about it then? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net < Verdana>_____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hi Bruce, I am sorry for the way the letter was addressed to you and then later was directed to all. I did not mean to imply that you had said those things. I am not trying to start a fight, I agree with most the things that you say, just that I hear the extreme on both sides. I don't think the sky is falling on supplements, but I may find out that I am wrong. An example of where CODEX would help: right now one companies products cannot be sold in the UK because they do not allow anything that is not normally grown in their country. SO they had to reformulate the product. With the new "Risk Assessment" guide lines, a product would be accepted based on those guide lines alone, and then the UK would be able to use the products. It would basically standardize things because right now for any supplement manufacturer that does business in many countries, they have to have different formulas for each country. I hear people complaining they feel there should be studies before they want to spend there money on supplements, then when more regulations are coming down, they are not happy with that. I realize most people are still caught in the drug paradigm and so double blind studies is something that has always been accepted as norm. I am not one for more government, believe me I don't want it any more then you, but if there is no stopping it, then I think perhaps it is better to work with them and help them make better decisions that can help everyone in the long run. As far as anything being taken off the market immediately, right now the only thing being discussed is vitamins and minerals, nothing else. So my 2cents worth, probably worth even less then that! -- [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX For those of you who have not been following the under-publicized event called CODEX, here is a short course. As of 1 August in Europe, more than ¾ of everything we consider readily accessible as a vitamin, mineral, or supplement will be banned from sale. This is not a joke. This is not a misprint or mistake. It is absolute FACT! While we sat here in the U.S., fat, dumb, and happy, the World Trade Organization, the World Health Organization, and our own wonderful government have sold us and the majority of the world down the tubes for the benefit of big dollars in the pharmaceutical industry. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not anti-business. I am not even anti medical establishment. I am simply stating the facts as they exist at this moment in time. Without going into lots of ugly detail that is easily obtainable, what is happening is that unless you, as a manufacturer are willing to foot the bill for extensive testing to “prove” your supplements are not harmful, they will be banned from manufacture and distribution. So, you won’t even be able to give them away because you will be guilty of a federal crime. Now we have a law on the books called DESHA that was supposed to protect our rights as citizens of this country from the threat of loosing our vitamins, minerals and supplements. The FDA was stopped dead in their tracks as long as those manufacturing and distributing supplements did not make claims that the products are treating or curing diseases. And, unless someone died of gross negligence on the part of the manufacturer or distributor, all of our supplements can (as of right now) be sold as nutritional supplements. End of story. However, when congress votes tonight or tomorrow, or no later than Friday on passing CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement) and it passes, article 6 within those pages of free trade garbage will force our government to comply with ALL of the regulations set down by the World Trade Organization and that includes CODEX as defined by the World Health Organization. So what, you say? Well the short story version is that DESHA will be thrown out because it is in conflict with the rulings of the world court and the WTO. That means that all of our supplements will either have to be federally tested and approved or they will cease to exist. Time and space for only 1 example: Iron is something that most people really do get enough of in their diet. Most iron deficiencies are not really deficiencies, but rather the inability of the body to utilize the iron that is already present. Lets just set that aside for the moment. Because too much iron in your diet can be harmful, the WHO through the auspices of the WTO have proclaimed that any product with IRON in it will be banned unless there is incontrovertible proof in studies done to the satisfaction of the FDA (in the US) that the level of iron present in the product in question is safe. That means that unless you pony up the dollars, your basic multi-vitamin with iron will become a thing of the past unless you purchase a pharmaceutical company version of it WITH A PRESCRIPTION FROM YOUR DOCTOR! Are you getting the picture? Where is the money trail? Who is protected from what? And who is laughing all the way to the bank? I just got off the phone with one of my friends in the UK who is a supplier of supplements I recommend to people fighting cancer. I use the product myself. The UK health agency has gone to him and told him that in order for his 2 products to remain on the market (never mind that he has hundreds of users who have never shown a side effect and the products themselves have a 200 year safe history), he will have to pay over $3,000,000 (US equivalent) per item for testing. He told me that he never expected to gross that amount let alone net and still have profit left over. What are his options? None. Will the 49 documented studies published on PUBMED have any bearing on this decision? NO. The reality is that if he continues to sell his products in the UK, he will go to jail. That is what is coming here. Most vitamin, mineral, and supplement suppliers are little mom and pop type operations. (less than 50 employees). Most have multiple products. Guess what is going to happen to them in 3 years? What is going to happen to your supplement supply in 3 years? Are you getting the picture? The clock is at the 11th hour plus. Within the next 3 or 4 days, the whole game is about to finish. Win or loose, the game will be over. We are not going to be able to go back and reset the clock. We are not going to be able to take another vote. WAKE UP PEOPLE. There is precious little time left. The senate passed CAFTA on 2 July. The president signed the CAFTA bill last year pending ratification in congress. All that is left for this nightmare to begin is one little vote in congress and our rights are tubed again. Get on the phone, get to your emails, whatever it takes but contact everyone and anyone you can think of to fight this. Contact your congressman. Contact all the congressmen from your state and tell them to vote NO on CAFTA because of article 6, CODEX. Of course you can choose to be complacent because there are only a couple of things you use. So what. Your Dr can write a scrip for your vitamins and the insurance company will pick up all but the copay. So what? Well, the little guy gets screwed again. Your complacency will effect all of us. It is not too late, but there is only moments before this is yet another opportunity lost. Where do you Stand? Can you justify sitting on your hands while more of your freedoms are stripped away? Can you excuse yourself from this because you just don’t want to get involved? I work with terminal people every single day that are staying alive only because of supplements. The mainstream medical community has already condemned them to death. What happens when that becomes you? How will you feel about it then? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net < Verdana> _____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 That is my point exactly. The government sticks their nose in. England has roughly 50% of the phytonutrients available to the US. The US has roughly 80% of those found in the orient. It is ludicrous to have some bureaucrat dictate what you can be healed with unless it is synthetically manufactured in a pharmaceutical plant. I strongly urge you to personally, not through your company or through your attorney or doctor, but by yourself, contact anyone you know in Europe who uses regular supplements and ask them just how warm and fuzzy they feel about being protected from themselves. I have 38 emails here from European individuals in 5 of the groups I participate in warning me about what is happening in Europe and cautioning how we are about to loose what we have in freedom of choice. Not one single email has come in from anyone anywhere about how the government and more testing is going to benefit us. I have yet to hear from anyone about studies. I am working with 58 cancer victims and their families and correspond with more than 90 other people on non cancer issues. NOT ONE of the over 150 people I deal with on a monthly basis has yet to say anything about testing or studying anything. I have yet to hear of one person other than someone who has been through a clinical trial that even knows what a double blind study is. Either someone is feeding you some bad information or you certainly run in a different crowd of ill people than I am exposed to. I am not trying to pick a fight either. I am sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from. You do not know if the vote on CAFTA can or cannot be stopped. We still have the opportunity to bring it to a halt. That is what democracy and this republic are all about. We still have a say. We still can express our opinion(s) to the elected officials and we still do have some voice left. Why capitulate before the vote? If you are not in favor of governmental controls, why are you sitting on the sidelines? If it becomes law, we live within those parameters or we all become criminals. Those will be the 2 choices to make when the time comes. Until then, why is there even a debate about expressing a profound desire not to have our government involved in personal level health care? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net PS for those of you complaining about the length of emails, please note this one is trimmed up. From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Kindscher (Charter) Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:48 PM low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I have tried to understand this issue fully but I am not able to understand it as well as I would like to. THis is why I have to listen to what others say and trust that what they say might be true. I am not interested in anyone losing their rights to obtain supplements. ON the other hand these other countries who have already got such strict standards perhaps it could help them. I really don't know the answer. As far as people wanting studies, I think cancer patients tend to be more open to try anything, especially if the doctor has offered everything and nothing has worked. But the average person who is just mildly sick and taking 3 or 4 meds, is very skeptical of the whole nutritional approach at all. They want to see the studies that can prove the food effectiveness against their particular trouble. I did write in to stop this action previously before listening to Mr. LeDoux speak on the issue. After hearing him speak I thought maybe there was no reason to be worried. Time will tell. Sorry for rocking the boat. -- RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX That is my point exactly. The government sticks their nose in. England has roughly 50% of the phytonutrients available to the US. The US has roughly 80% of those found in the orient. It is ludicrous to have some bureaucrat dictate what you can be healed with unless it is synthetically manufactured in a pharmaceutical plant. I strongly urge you to personally, not through your company or through your attorney or doctor, but by yourself, contact anyone you know in Europe who uses regular supplements and ask them just how warm and fuzzy they feel about being protected from themselves. I have 38 emails here from European individuals in 5 of the groups I participate in warning me about what is happening in Europe and cautioning how we are about to loose what we have in freedom of choice. Not one single email has come in from anyone anywhere about how the government and more testing is going to benefit us. I have yet to hear from anyone about studies. I am working with 58 cancer victims and their families and correspond with more than 90 other people on non cancer issues. NOT ONE of the over 150 people I deal with on a monthly basis has yet to say anything about testing or studying anything. I have yet to hear of one person other than someone who has been through a clinical trial that even knows what a double blind study is. Either someone is feeding you some bad information or you certainly run in a different crowd of ill people than I am exposed to. I am not trying to pick a fight either. I am sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from. You do not know if the vote on CAFTA can or cannot be stopped. We still have the opportunity to bring it to a halt. That is what democracy and this republic are all about. We still have a say. We still can express our opinion(s) to the elected officials and we still do have some voice left. Why capitulate before the vote? If you are not in favor of governmental controls, why are you sitting on the sidelines? If it becomes law, we live within those parameters or we all become criminals. Those will be the 2 choices to make when the time comes. Until then, why is there even a debate about expressing a profound desire not to have our government involved in personal level health care? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net PS for those of you complaining about the length of emails, please note this one is trimmed up. From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Kindscher (Charter)Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:48 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX _____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Now we are talking two different issues. Anyone who wants studies has the wonderful website called PUBMED. When I researched how to treat the cancer I am fighting, I read well in excess of 10,000 pages of reports. Roughly half of them came from PUBMED. These were not double blind garbage. Those have little merit in the real world, for practical application. I looked for studies that showed where both animals and people benefited from specific nutrients, etc… I then followed up and looked for the original sources as well as did general searches. I was not jumping off cliffs or making irrational judgments just for the sake of being busy. No one should do that. The studies that people want are the ones that prove in real world settings that what is being done works. When I recommend someone use something, I can pull up anywhere up to 4 or 500 studies to site as proof that the substance will perform. I will not recommend any product that I cannot find a minimum of 40 published scientific studies that are positive in nature. These very substances are the ones that will be flushed from the system we now enjoy. This concept that the government is protecting us is a lie of the first order. It approaches a magnitude I cannot begin to comprehend. Having strict standards on top of what has already been done in Europe will not make things better. I cannot fathom that justification. Regulations are designed as punitive actions. Nobody writes a use rule or law to make things easier. By adding more legislation, more freedom is removed. Anyone who is claiming that this is a benefit for all is either so misguided or so indebted to the system that rational discourse is not possible. I am certainly not the last word on this subject, but I have yet to see anyone on any sight post any form of documentation of any kind that says we will benefit from more controls. This alone should tell you something. The very fact that the entire subject is not even on the radar screen in the mainstream press should be an issue. I personally have written more than a dozen newspapers and cannot get one of them to even respond with a “not interested.” There is something radically wrong. There is pressure being brought to ignore the issue. Why? Guess number 1 is MONEY. Who stands to benefit from taking away the plants and their derivatives? It is not the people who use them. Who is loosing money because you purchase a dozen nutrients and do not spend $1500 or more per month fighting cancer or MS? Who stands to make the money if there is no alternative for anyone to choose? Who has the fleet of lobbyists in Washington with the $10,000 suits and $5,000 hand made Italian shoes? It is not the generic maker of Ester C, I can guarantee that. Follow the money. Who is being paid to push synthetic medical cures? Follow the money. Words fail me beyond this point. Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Kindscher (Charter) Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:52 PM low dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX I have tried to understand this issue fully but I am not able to understand it as well as I would like to. THis is why I have to listen to what others say and trust that what they say might be true. I am not interested in anyone losing their rights to obtain supplements. ON the other hand these other countries who have already got such strict standards perhaps it could help them. I really don't know the answer. As far as people wanting studies, I think cancer patients tend to be more open to try anything, especially if the doctor has offered everything and nothing has worked. But the average person who is just mildly sick and taking 3 or 4 meds, is very skeptical of the whole nutritional approach at all. They want to see the studies that can prove the food effectiveness against their particular trouble. I did write in to stop this action previously before listening to Mr. LeDoux speak on the issue. After hearing him speak I thought maybe there was no reason to be worried. Time will tell. Sorry for rocking the boat. -- RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX < Verdana>_____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I don't recall anyone asking for 'Double Blind Studies' on supplements. Many here seem to want one for LDN. It seems to be helping many people, myself included, so I'm not overly concerned about that. It's having the choice and availability of supplements that concerns me. Marcie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 The only potentially positive fallout from Cafta/Codex is that at some point, if supplements or vitamins beyond a certain dosage have to be prescribed, then insurance companies may have to pay for them. RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX That is my point exactly. The government sticks their nose in. England has roughly 50% of the phytonutrients available to the US. The US has roughly 80% of those found in the orient. It is ludicrous to have some bureaucrat dictate what you can be healed with unless it is synthetically manufactured in a pharmaceutical plant. I strongly urge you to personally, not through your company or through your attorney or doctor, but by yourself, contact anyone you know in Europe who uses regular supplements and ask them just how warm and fuzzy they feel about being protected from themselves. I have 38 emails here from European individuals in 5 of the groups I participate in warning me about what is happening in Europe and cautioning how we are about to loose what we have in freedom of choice. Not one single email has come in from anyone anywhere about how the government and more testing is going to benefit us. I have yet to hear from anyone about studies. I am working with 58 cancer victims and their families and correspond with more than 90 other people on non cancer issues. NOT ONE of the over 150 people I deal with on a monthly basis has yet to say anything about testing or studying anything. I have yet to hear of one person other than someone who has been through a clinical trial that even knows what a double blind study is. Either someone is feeding you some bad information or you certainly run in a different crowd of ill people than I am exposed to. I am not trying to pick a fight either. I am sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from. You do not know if the vote on CAFTA can or cannot be stopped. We still have the opportunity to bring it to a halt. That is what democracy and this republic are all about. We still have a say. We still can express our opinion(s) to the elected officials and we still do have some voice left. Why capitulate before the vote? If you are not in favor of governmental controls, why are you sitting on the sidelines? If it becomes law, we live within those parameters or we all become criminals. Those will be the 2 choices to make when the time comes. Until then, why is there even a debate about expressing a profound desire not to have our government involved in personal level health care? Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D. Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc. http://www.survivecancer.net PS for those of you complaining about the length of emails, please note this one is trimmed up. From: low dose naltrexone [mailto:low dose naltrexone ] On Behalf Of Kindscher (Charter)Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:48 PMlow dose naltrexone Subject: RE: [low dose naltrexone] last call for CODEX < Verdana>_____________________________________________________________________ FREE Emoticons for your email! Click Here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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