Guest guest Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 S.T.'s When performing the catch phase of a clean or snatch during submaximal loads (e.g. 65% of 1RM) do elite weightlifters catch the bar in a full squat position or do they catch it with as little hip/knee flexion as possible? Obviously during maximal efforts an athlete would have to catch the weight by pulling themselves under the bar in a full squat. However, during a submaximal effort the weight can be caught in the power position (quarter squat). I can see catching the bar as high as possible would teach them to be as explosive as possible, but that does not load the hip and knee extensors eccentrically like catching the bar in a full squat would. Also would catching the bar " high " develop the wrong motor patterns that a weightlifter would normally go through in competition? Is your answer different if the person is a weightlifter compared with a football athlete? Thanks in advance Respectfully, Bryce Teager, CSCS FAST FORWARD Omaha, NE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Here is an example of a advanced olympic lifters program (Day 3 of workout) Power Snatch (HB) 2x3 1x3 /2 1x3 /2 2x3 Power Snatch (FL) 2x3 1x3 /2 1x3 /2 2x3 Clean (FL) ---- 1x6 /2 ---- 2x6 Clean (HB) 2x6 ---- 1x6 /2 ---- Snatch Balance 3x6 2x6 /3 2x6 /3 3x6 Back Squat 3x6 2x6 /3 2x6 /3 3x6 Press 5x4 4x5 5x4 4x5 If it says power next to it ...the bar is received in a quarter squat If it does not say power next to it, it is received in a full squat Also , notice othe assistive exercises that help you get under the bar and and train you to get the weight overhead Steve M.Ed., CSCS, USAW Faculty Instructor School of Health Sciences and Human Performance Lynchburg College Lynchburg, Virginia Clean/Snatch Catch? S.T.'s When performing the catch phase of a clean or snatch during submaximal loads (e.g. 65% of 1RM) do elite weightlifters catch the bar in a full squat position or do they catch it with as little hip/knee flexion as possible? Obviously during maximal efforts an athlete would have to catch the weight by pulling themselves under the bar in a full squat. However, during a submaximal effort the weight can be caught in the power position (quarter squat). I can see catching the bar as high as possible would teach them to be as explosive as possible, but that does not load the hip and knee extensors eccentrically like catching the bar in a full squat would. Also would catching the bar " high " develop the wrong motor patterns that a weightlifter would normally go through in competition? Is your answer different if the person is a weightlifter compared with a football athlete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hi Bryce, Regardless of whether someone is doing a full clean/snatch or the power equivalent, it is always important to do a full pull. Even when pulling the heaviest weights, OLifters have to get a complete pull in in order to have the bar high enough to get underneath it in a squat. Now, when the weight is light this inevitably means that it will be caught high. The diference being that with a power clean/snatch, you catch the weight with your legs rigid and proceed to stand up, whereas with a squat clean/snatch, you catch the weight and then proceed to squat with it, even if you caught it very high. So to answer your question, when doing squat lifts, Olifters don't catch a light weight in a full squat, this would create bad technique. They do a complete and an explosive pull, always pulling to the top, and only after the pull is complete do they jump underneath it and THEN proceed to go into a squat, even if the weight was caught high. Regarding motor patterns for competition, it is far more important to develop the patterns of a complete and powerful pull than for jumping prematurely underneath the bar. Furthermore, learning to jump under a low bar can be learnt by doing squat snatches/cleans with a heavy weight.(I don't see that the answer would be different for different athletes) I hope that it makes sense! All the best, Gareth Simons Winnipeg, MB, Canada > S.T.'s > > When performing the catch phase of a clean or snatch during submaximal loads > (e.g. 65% of 1RM) do elite weightlifters catch the bar in a full squat > position or do they catch it with as little hip/knee flexion as possible? > Obviously during maximal efforts an athlete would have to catch the weight by > pulling themselves under the bar in a full squat. However, during a submaximal > effort the weight can be caught in the power position (quarter squat). I can > see catching the bar as high as possible would teach them to be as explosive as > possible, but that does not load the hip and knee extensors eccentrically like > catching the bar in a full squat would. Also would catching the bar " high " > develop the wrong motor patterns that a weightlifter would normally go through > in competition? Is your answer different if the person is a weightlifter > compared with a football athlete? > > Thanks in advance > > Respectfully, > > Bryce Teager, CSCS > FAST FORWARD > Omaha, NE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Steve, Thank you very much for your reply. However, I have a couple of questions. What does the (HB) and (FL) mean regarding the snatches and cleans? Also, if it says clean, they are recieving the bar in a full squat even during submaximal attempts or would they catch them in a quarter squat until they progress to higher percentage sets? Thanks in advance. Respectfully, Bryce Teager, CSCS FAST FORWARD Omaha, Ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Bryce, HB stands for High Block (Bill explains the design for adjustable height blocks in a previous e mail from Rodney Prior. FL stands for floor. When you teach the Clean and the Snatch there is a progression that starts from the top and works its way down. This means that the first progression would be Cleans or Snatches from the mid thigh...This then progresses to above the knee, below the knee, and then the floor. With adjustable blocks you can start at any one of those positions without having to hold the bar (similar to doing floor presses to work on specific sticking points in the bench press). In terms of doing cleans and snatches receiving the bar in a full squat....In a three day a week program at the beginner level I would keep everything in the power clean and power snatch domain (receive the bar in a quarter squat). In a intermediate/advanced program you would perform snatches on day 1, power cleans on day 2, and on day 3 you would do power snatches and full cleans. Then alternate that everyweek: (Alternate Week) On week 2 , day 1 snatches from mid thigh or high block, day 2 cleans (fl), day 3 snatches (fl) , power cleans (mt) Your body needs to understand how to pull underneath the bar at various loads. On the last two sets of the advanced program, the lifter should be pushing near maximal loads. Near maximal load may only be 70-85% of 1 RM max based on where the individual is in their program as well. There is a tremendous amount of adaptation in Olympic Lifting. This includes increased muscle fiber diameter, improved intramuscular coordination, and intermuscular coordination. In addition there are some other factors that are influenced such as energy system adaptation, psychological variables, circulatory adaptation, hormones, and I am sure many other variables that I am missing. If I confused you in any way or you have any questions please do not hesitate to write me back or call. Steve M.Ed., CSCS, USAW Faculty Instructor School of Health Sciences and Human Performance Lynchburg College, Lynchburg, Virginia Re: Clean/Snatch Catch? Steve, Thank you very much for your reply. However, I have a couple of questions. What does the (HB) and (FL) mean regarding the snatches and cleans? Also, if it says clean, they are recieving the bar in a full squat even during submaximal attempts or would they catch them in a quarter squat until they progress to higher percentage sets? Thanks in advance. Respectfully, Bryce Teager, CSCS FAST FORWARD Omaha, Ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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