Guest guest Posted December 16, 2003 Report Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hey Folks, Here is something I'm wondering if there is an answer or hypothesis to. Or is this assumption even correct. If one were to perform a set of 4 reps, with their 6RM, it is said that this will not stimulate hypertrophy as you are within your capablitlies. First, is this true? OK, now on to the rest....... Or it is true that tension is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy, and since the tension is obviously the same during rep 6 as it was during rep one. (the weight is the same), there is no diffference physiologically from rep compared to rep 1? Taking this info. from Enoka, " The relative contribution of motor unit recruitment to muscle force varies between muscles. In some hand muscles for example, all motor units are recruited at around 50% of maximum. In other muscles, such as the bicep brachii, deltoid, and tiblias anterior, motor unit recuitment continues upto 85% of the maximum force (Deluca, LeFever, McCue & Xenakis, 1982a; Kukulka & Clamann, 1981; Van Cutsem et al,. 1997) " From p290, Neuromechanics of Human Movement 3rd Edition. M. Enoka " If one were to do 6 reps with each rep seperated by a 5 minute break, rather than all in a row, why would this not work as well as actually doing the 6 reps in a row? All voluntarilly recruitable fibers should be recruited the entire time, even during the first rep, or with each single rep, as the case may be. I have asked a lot on here about fatigue and it's role in hypertrophy. There are studies which compare fatiuge and non-fatigue training and in those studies, the training WITH fatigue seems to increase strength and hypertrophy more rapidly. BUT, I recently read an old paper from some German doctors who did work with static/isometric training, and they reported that tension was the ONLY factor in the strength increases. That whether or not the subjects trained to fatigue had zero bearing on their rate of progress. How does one make sense of this? Ron Sowers Post Falls Id USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ron, To reply to your first question, (1x4 @ 6RM), stimulating hypertrophy is most often associated with performing high volumes of work. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. If one was to perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great enough to stimulate hypertrophy. But beyond the volume of work their are many variables within your parameters (4 reps at 6RM) that effect the outcome. What lift is performed (as total body exercises at higher intensities stimulate more muscle mass and have a greater effect on hormone concentrations). What velocity is being attempted and consequently what is the lift tempo. Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle changes such as these make a world of difference. Finally, and maybe most importantly, are the rest periods. As you questioned the difference between performing six reps consecutively, or spacing 5 minutes between each rep, it would make a significant difference. When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed (i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to muscle hypertrophy. Although NOT AN EXACT parallel, the difference in program variables and outcomes can be seen in Olympic and Powerlifters that want to stay in a certain weight class. At different phases of training these individuals take MANY lifts at high intensities separated by long rest periods for physiological and psychological recovery, and because of the technical demands of the lifts. In part, because of the long rest breaks (an many other factors) these individuals maintain a particular weight range. Their are an unlimited number of combinations when considering all the program variables, and considering that each person responds differently to an exercise protocol their is never a sure fire way to guarantee hypertrophy. In other words, there are many roads to that destination. Consider this, to stimulate hypertrophy, most people employ high volumes of work (i.e. 3x10 at 10 RM, with 1.5-2 min rest periods) but could you not achieve nearly the same high volume goal, with high quality reps, at a higher intensity using a reversed protocol (10x3, 5-6 RM, 30 sec rest periods). The challenge and the fun of training (yourself) and others is considering these possibilities and trying them to see which works best. Kraemer, W.J. (2000) Endocrine responses to exercise. IN: Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning, 2nd Ed. Baechle, T.R. & Earle, R.W. (Eds.) Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. Certainly not definitive, but I hope it is a good start to the answer to your question. Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > Hey Folks, > > Here is something I'm wondering if there is an answer or hypothesis to. > Or is this assumption even correct. > > If one were to perform a set of 4 reps, with their 6RM, it is said that > this will not stimulate hypertrophy as you are within your capablitlies. > First, is this true? > > OK, now on to the rest....... > > Or it is true that tension is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy, and > since the tension is obviously the same during rep 6 as it was during rep > one. (the weight is the same), there is no diffference physiologically > from rep compared to rep 1? > > Taking this info. from Enoka, > > " The relative contribution of motor unit recruitment to muscle force > varies between muscles. In some hand muscles for example, all motor units > are recruited at around 50% of maximum. In other muscles, such as the > bicep brachii, deltoid, and tiblias anterior, motor unit recuitment > continues upto 85% of the maximum force (Deluca, LeFever, McCue & > Xenakis, 1982a; Kukulka & Clamann, 1981; Van Cutsem et al,. 1997) " > > From p290, Neuromechanics of Human Movement 3rd Edition. M. Enoka " > > If one were to do 6 reps with each rep seperated by a 5 minute break, > rather than all in a row, why would this not work as well as actually > doing the 6 reps in a row? All voluntarilly recruitable fibers should be > recruited the entire time, even during the first rep, or with each single > rep, as the case may be. I have asked a lot on here about fatigue and > it's role in hypertrophy. There are studies which compare fatiuge and > non-fatigue training and in those studies, the training WITH fatigue > seems to increase strength and hypertrophy more rapidly. BUT, I recently > read an old paper from some German doctors who did work with > static/isometric training, and they reported that tension was the ONLY > factor in the strength increases. That whether or not the subjects > trained to fatigue had zero bearing on their rate of progress. > > How does one make sense of this? > > Ron Sowers > Post Falls Id > USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ron, To reply to your first question, (1x4 @ 6RM), stimulating hypertrophy is most often associated with performing high volumes of work. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. If one was to perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great enough to stimulate hypertrophy. But beyond the volume of work their are many variables within your parameters (4 reps at 6RM) that effect the outcome. What lift is performed (as total body exercises at higher intensities stimulate more muscle mass and have a greater effect on hormone concentrations). What velocity is being attempted and consequently what is the lift tempo. Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle changes such as these make a world of difference. Finally, and maybe most importantly, are the rest periods. As you questioned the difference between performing six reps consecutively, or spacing 5 minutes between each rep, it would make a significant difference. When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed (i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to muscle hypertrophy. Although NOT AN EXACT parallel, the difference in program variables and outcomes can be seen in Olympic and Powerlifters that want to stay in a certain weight class. At different phases of training these individuals take MANY lifts at high intensities separated by long rest periods for physiological and psychological recovery, and because of the technical demands of the lifts. In part, because of the long rest breaks (an many other factors) these individuals maintain a particular weight range. Their are an unlimited number of combinations when considering all the program variables, and considering that each person responds differently to an exercise protocol their is never a sure fire way to guarantee hypertrophy. In other words, there are many roads to that destination. Consider this, to stimulate hypertrophy, most people employ high volumes of work (i.e. 3x10 at 10 RM, with 1.5-2 min rest periods) but could you not achieve nearly the same high volume goal, with high quality reps, at a higher intensity using a reversed protocol (10x3, 5-6 RM, 30 sec rest periods). The challenge and the fun of training (yourself) and others is considering these possibilities and trying them to see which works best. Kraemer, W.J. (2000) Endocrine responses to exercise. IN: Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning, 2nd Ed. Baechle, T.R. & Earle, R.W. (Eds.) Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. Certainly not definitive, but I hope it is a good start to the answer to your question. Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > Hey Folks, > > Here is something I'm wondering if there is an answer or hypothesis to. > Or is this assumption even correct. > > If one were to perform a set of 4 reps, with their 6RM, it is said that > this will not stimulate hypertrophy as you are within your capablitlies. > First, is this true? > > OK, now on to the rest....... > > Or it is true that tension is the primary stimulus for hypertrophy, and > since the tension is obviously the same during rep 6 as it was during rep > one. (the weight is the same), there is no diffference physiologically > from rep compared to rep 1? > > Taking this info. from Enoka, > > " The relative contribution of motor unit recruitment to muscle force > varies between muscles. In some hand muscles for example, all motor units > are recruited at around 50% of maximum. In other muscles, such as the > bicep brachii, deltoid, and tiblias anterior, motor unit recuitment > continues upto 85% of the maximum force (Deluca, LeFever, McCue & > Xenakis, 1982a; Kukulka & Clamann, 1981; Van Cutsem et al,. 1997) " > > From p290, Neuromechanics of Human Movement 3rd Edition. M. Enoka " > > If one were to do 6 reps with each rep seperated by a 5 minute break, > rather than all in a row, why would this not work as well as actually > doing the 6 reps in a row? All voluntarilly recruitable fibers should be > recruited the entire time, even during the first rep, or with each single > rep, as the case may be. I have asked a lot on here about fatigue and > it's role in hypertrophy. There are studies which compare fatiuge and > non-fatigue training and in those studies, the training WITH fatigue > seems to increase strength and hypertrophy more rapidly. BUT, I recently > read an old paper from some German doctors who did work with > static/isometric training, and they reported that tension was the ONLY > factor in the strength increases. That whether or not the subjects > trained to fatigue had zero bearing on their rate of progress. > > How does one make sense of this? > > Ron Sowers > Post Falls Id > USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 , Thanks very much for all the info., very helpful Mind if I ask some questions relating to some of your points? >. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by >doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under >these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined >with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. Here is something that I have never seen addressed, by performing multiple sets, " something " must be having an " accumulative " effect. WHAT is accumulating? Is it the build up of metabolites? The added effect of the trauma from that mechanical tension? The reason I ask, is I myself seem to have the same results whether I train one set to failure, or mutliple sets short of failure. The only common demoninator I can see is the idea of using a heavy weight in the presence of a high amount of metabolites. Any thoughts on this? > If one was to >perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great >enough to stimulate hypertrophy. Are you refering to intensity defined as a % of 1RM or % or maximum effort? > Is the individual performing slow efforts on >the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being >performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is >the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec >concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) This is interesting as I recently read an article on muscle fibers, it stated that there is more fiber disruption if the eccentric is moved faster, yet under control, as opposed to slower. The idea was that the uneven lengthening of the sarcomeres was more pronounced at faster speeds thus leading to greater inter-fiber torque differences. At slower speeds, the crossbridge cycle could " keep up " better. Any truth to that? > When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important >factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, >but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the >reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed >(i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 >sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It >would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated >with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, >additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle >mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in >testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to >muscle hypertrophy. So this info. would say the metabolites/fatigue products stimulate more gains due to systematic endocrine system changes as opposed to some local effect? If so, this would answer my first question Thanks again! Ron Sowers Post Falls Id USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 , Thanks very much for all the info., very helpful Mind if I ask some questions relating to some of your points? >. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by >doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under >these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined >with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. Here is something that I have never seen addressed, by performing multiple sets, " something " must be having an " accumulative " effect. WHAT is accumulating? Is it the build up of metabolites? The added effect of the trauma from that mechanical tension? The reason I ask, is I myself seem to have the same results whether I train one set to failure, or mutliple sets short of failure. The only common demoninator I can see is the idea of using a heavy weight in the presence of a high amount of metabolites. Any thoughts on this? > If one was to >perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great >enough to stimulate hypertrophy. Are you refering to intensity defined as a % of 1RM or % or maximum effort? > Is the individual performing slow efforts on >the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being >performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is >the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec >concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) This is interesting as I recently read an article on muscle fibers, it stated that there is more fiber disruption if the eccentric is moved faster, yet under control, as opposed to slower. The idea was that the uneven lengthening of the sarcomeres was more pronounced at faster speeds thus leading to greater inter-fiber torque differences. At slower speeds, the crossbridge cycle could " keep up " better. Any truth to that? > When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important >factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, >but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the >reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed >(i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 >sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It >would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated >with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, >additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle >mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in >testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to >muscle hypertrophy. So this info. would say the metabolites/fatigue products stimulate more gains due to systematic endocrine system changes as opposed to some local effect? If so, this would answer my first question Thanks again! Ron Sowers Post Falls Id USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Ron, Here are my best attempts to further discuss your questions: The quickest answer is to the RM question. For example, when I was referring to 12 RM, I mean a weight very close to the maximum weight one can use for 12 repetitions, to me it always seems a lot easier than playing with percentages because an individuals 1RM constantly fluctuates if only just a few pounds depending on the: time of day, sleep patterns, diet, stress, etc. Eccentric Exercise: I believe I saw the article (in J of Strength and Cond Res. ?) you refer to regarding eccentric exercise, and I only skimmed over the abstract. It seems very logical in theory that a faster eccentric movement would lead to greater fiber disruption. I will have to review the article in more detail, but if it was in a peer reviewed journal then the research is probably " believable " . As always, you should check though some of their references and search for similar articles on the topic, since one article is by no means a definitive answer. To summarize your other questions: Although adaptations to exercise are certainly multifactoral, I believe systemic endocrine adaptations are probably the greatest mediator of muscle adaptation, particularly for muscle hypertrophy. The beautiful thing about training; whether training yourself or others, is the incredible creative opportunities in program design. The basis for this creativity is individual differences. Every single person is different, and will respond differently to the same program. It is obvious that you do quite a bit of reading in the field of weight training and I'm sure you are aware that there is a fierce debate over single vs. multiple sets. Personally, I think this argument is kind of foolish. I will come out and say that from what I've read in the scientific literature, that it " appears " that multiple sets are more effective for gains in strength, hypertrophy, etc. But I believe far more strongly in the " law of individual differences " to stand on a soapbox and tell you that the way your doing things won't work. I am sure there is a great number of people that get great results from performing a single set to failure. So if it works for you, stick with it. I think that it works for you because as you mentioned you are using a heavy resistance that challenges you neuromuscular system. Additionally, if you perform a higher number of repetitions (e.g. > 6- 8 reps) per set and you have a short rest between sets or exercises you are building up the same levels of lactic acid as the individual using multiple sets. Depending on the exact nature of the program the only advantage the multiple set lifter has is the total amount of work performed. In the end, there is a lot of science out on the subject of strength development, but the application and results are highly individual, so in the weight room success often comes through some trial and error. Sorry for being so long winded. Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > , > > Thanks very much for all the info., very helpful > Mind if I ask some questions relating to some of your points? > > >. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by > >doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under > >these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined > >with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. > > Here is something that I have never seen addressed, by performing > multiple sets, " something " must be having an " accumulative " effect. WHAT > is accumulating? Is it the build up of metabolites? The added effect of > the trauma from that mechanical tension? The reason I ask, is I myself > seem to have the same results whether I train one set to failure, or > mutliple sets short of failure. The only common demoninator I can see is > the idea of using a heavy weight in the presence of a high amount of > metabolites. Any thoughts on this? > > > If one was to > >perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great > >enough to stimulate hypertrophy. > > Are you refering to intensity defined as a % of 1RM or % or maximum > effort? > > > Is the individual performing slow efforts on > >the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being > >performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is > >the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec > >concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) > > This is interesting as I recently read an article on muscle fibers, it > stated that there is more fiber disruption if the eccentric is moved > faster, yet under control, as opposed to slower. The idea was that the > uneven lengthening of the sarcomeres was more pronounced at faster speeds > thus leading to greater inter-fiber torque differences. At slower speeds, > the crossbridge cycle could " keep up " better. Any truth to that? > > > When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important > >factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, > >but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the > >reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed > >(i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 > >sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It > >would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated > >with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, > >additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle > >mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in > >testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to > >muscle hypertrophy. > > So this info. would say the metabolites/fatigue products stimulate more > gains due to systematic endocrine system changes as opposed to some local > effect? If so, this would answer my first question > > Thanks again! > > Ron Sowers > Post Falls Id > USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Ron, Here are my best attempts to further discuss your questions: The quickest answer is to the RM question. For example, when I was referring to 12 RM, I mean a weight very close to the maximum weight one can use for 12 repetitions, to me it always seems a lot easier than playing with percentages because an individuals 1RM constantly fluctuates if only just a few pounds depending on the: time of day, sleep patterns, diet, stress, etc. Eccentric Exercise: I believe I saw the article (in J of Strength and Cond Res. ?) you refer to regarding eccentric exercise, and I only skimmed over the abstract. It seems very logical in theory that a faster eccentric movement would lead to greater fiber disruption. I will have to review the article in more detail, but if it was in a peer reviewed journal then the research is probably " believable " . As always, you should check though some of their references and search for similar articles on the topic, since one article is by no means a definitive answer. To summarize your other questions: Although adaptations to exercise are certainly multifactoral, I believe systemic endocrine adaptations are probably the greatest mediator of muscle adaptation, particularly for muscle hypertrophy. The beautiful thing about training; whether training yourself or others, is the incredible creative opportunities in program design. The basis for this creativity is individual differences. Every single person is different, and will respond differently to the same program. It is obvious that you do quite a bit of reading in the field of weight training and I'm sure you are aware that there is a fierce debate over single vs. multiple sets. Personally, I think this argument is kind of foolish. I will come out and say that from what I've read in the scientific literature, that it " appears " that multiple sets are more effective for gains in strength, hypertrophy, etc. But I believe far more strongly in the " law of individual differences " to stand on a soapbox and tell you that the way your doing things won't work. I am sure there is a great number of people that get great results from performing a single set to failure. So if it works for you, stick with it. I think that it works for you because as you mentioned you are using a heavy resistance that challenges you neuromuscular system. Additionally, if you perform a higher number of repetitions (e.g. > 6- 8 reps) per set and you have a short rest between sets or exercises you are building up the same levels of lactic acid as the individual using multiple sets. Depending on the exact nature of the program the only advantage the multiple set lifter has is the total amount of work performed. In the end, there is a lot of science out on the subject of strength development, but the application and results are highly individual, so in the weight room success often comes through some trial and error. Sorry for being so long winded. Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > , > > Thanks very much for all the info., very helpful > Mind if I ask some questions relating to some of your points? > > >. Even though you are performing " within your capabilities " by > >doing 4 reps at 6RM if an individual was to perform 4-8 sets under > >these parameters I believe it is at a high enough intensity, combined > >with the volume of work to initiate hypertrophy. > > Here is something that I have never seen addressed, by performing > multiple sets, " something " must be having an " accumulative " effect. WHAT > is accumulating? Is it the build up of metabolites? The added effect of > the trauma from that mechanical tension? The reason I ask, is I myself > seem to have the same results whether I train one set to failure, or > mutliple sets short of failure. The only common demoninator I can see is > the idea of using a heavy weight in the presence of a high amount of > metabolites. Any thoughts on this? > > > If one was to > >perform 4 reps per set with 12 RM the intensity would not be great > >enough to stimulate hypertrophy. > > Are you refering to intensity defined as a % of 1RM or % or maximum > effort? > > > Is the individual performing slow efforts on > >the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being > >performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is > >the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec > >concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) > > This is interesting as I recently read an article on muscle fibers, it > stated that there is more fiber disruption if the eccentric is moved > faster, yet under control, as opposed to slower. The idea was that the > uneven lengthening of the sarcomeres was more pronounced at faster speeds > thus leading to greater inter-fiber torque differences. At slower speeds, > the crossbridge cycle could " keep up " better. Any truth to that? > > > When attempting to stimulate hypertrophy, an important > >factor is not only the amount of muscle (muscle fibers) recruited, > >but the hormonal environment elicited by the workout. If all the > >reps were performed consecutively; a multipoint lift was performed > >(i.e. squat or deadlift), a relatively high volume was used (4-8 > >sets); and the rest periods were short < 1.5 minutes b/t sets. It > >would induce high levels of lactate/lactic acid, which are associated > >with stimulating the release of high levels of growth hormone, > >additionally performing exercises that use large amounts of muscle > >mass and higher intensities are associated with increases in > >testosterone. (Kraemer, 2000) These two hormones are essential to > >muscle hypertrophy. > > So this info. would say the metabolites/fatigue products stimulate more > gains due to systematic endocrine system changes as opposed to some local > effect? If so, this would answer my first question > > Thanks again! > > Ron Sowers > Post Falls Id > USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 <<Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle changes such as these make a world of difference.>> **TEMPO TIMING NEEDS TEMPERING Siff M C " Facts and Fallacies of Fitness " (1995, 1998 editions) / Supertraining. Fallacy: Prescription of duration of the eccentric, concentric and isometric phases of an exercise is an effective way of stipulating movement tempo For many years more precise bodybuilders have been using a three digit number to describe the tempo of the different phases of any training repetition in an attempt to be more exact in defining the speed of movement throughout an exercise. The first, second and final digits refer to the duration in seconds of the eccentric, isometric and concentric phases of the repetition, respectively (i.e. E-I-C). Thus, the code 402 means that the eccentric phase lasts 4 seconds, the isometric phase is of minimal duration and the concentric phase is 2 seconds. The Nautilus company would have us believe that they pioneered this nomenclature, but it was in use years before they came into existence. More lately the letter X has been added to indicate an explosive or extremely rapid phase. Thus 40X means a 4-second eccentric phase is followed by an insignificantly long isometric phase and finally an explosive concentric phase. Superficially, this scheme would appear to be quantitatively precise, but in practice bodybuilders have usually counted seconds mentally to give a rough idea of duration of each phase. Even then, this scheme assumes that there are only three phases to all resistance exercises, based on the assumption that there is only one isometric or transition phase between the eccentric and concentric phases. In fact, there are four phases to any movement: the usual three that we have just discussed, plus another transition phase between the end of the concentric phase and the beginning of the eccentric phase. In other words, a more complete 'tempo code' for all exercises should be E-T-C-T, where T refers to the transition phase between any successive eccentric and concentric phases. Lest this seem pedantic, it is important to note that the extra transition phase often is used by serious bodybuilders to offer a few seconds of 'peak contraction' or even a pause to facilitate recovery (thus creating what some bodybuilders call rest-pause training). Even the three digit code has certain other limitations. The difference between a phase labelled as " 0 " or " X " is so vague as to make one wonder if any distinction between the two abbreviations is not redundant. Moreover, the digits given tend to disguise the fact that the rate of force development is not constant throughout any movement, so that a phase which lasts for 4 seconds could comprise a 1-second initial acceleration, followed by a 2-second stage around one's sticking point, and terminated by a 1-second deceleration stage. Or, the 4- second phase could be more approximately uniform in force production. This fact is well known to bodybuilders who like to use 'compensatory acceleration training' (CAT), which involves deliberately accelerating the load as soon as it begins to feel light. Thus, to someone using CAT, the tempo code 412 would offer significantly different training from someone using more conventional methods of training. Of course, it should be obvious that the use of three or four digit tempo codes is either irrelevant or impossible with many Olympic lifting exercises. Not only does the use of momentum and ballistic action form an important part of these rapid movements, but some of the exercises completely omit the eccentric phase for some of the participating muscles, especially if rubber bumper plates are used to allow the lifter to drop the bar after a snatch, clean, jerk or pull. Even in bodybuilding, where advanced trainees use only 'negatives' (eccentrics) or 'positives' (concentrics), with or without the help of a partner, tempo codes play no valuable role at all. In other words, tempo codes may be of value for limited rudimentary applications among the average public, but disguise more than they offer in the case of athletes with more sophisticated needs. " *** -------- Carruthers Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 <<Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle changes such as these make a world of difference.>> **TEMPO TIMING NEEDS TEMPERING Siff M C " Facts and Fallacies of Fitness " (1995, 1998 editions) / Supertraining. Fallacy: Prescription of duration of the eccentric, concentric and isometric phases of an exercise is an effective way of stipulating movement tempo For many years more precise bodybuilders have been using a three digit number to describe the tempo of the different phases of any training repetition in an attempt to be more exact in defining the speed of movement throughout an exercise. The first, second and final digits refer to the duration in seconds of the eccentric, isometric and concentric phases of the repetition, respectively (i.e. E-I-C). Thus, the code 402 means that the eccentric phase lasts 4 seconds, the isometric phase is of minimal duration and the concentric phase is 2 seconds. The Nautilus company would have us believe that they pioneered this nomenclature, but it was in use years before they came into existence. More lately the letter X has been added to indicate an explosive or extremely rapid phase. Thus 40X means a 4-second eccentric phase is followed by an insignificantly long isometric phase and finally an explosive concentric phase. Superficially, this scheme would appear to be quantitatively precise, but in practice bodybuilders have usually counted seconds mentally to give a rough idea of duration of each phase. Even then, this scheme assumes that there are only three phases to all resistance exercises, based on the assumption that there is only one isometric or transition phase between the eccentric and concentric phases. In fact, there are four phases to any movement: the usual three that we have just discussed, plus another transition phase between the end of the concentric phase and the beginning of the eccentric phase. In other words, a more complete 'tempo code' for all exercises should be E-T-C-T, where T refers to the transition phase between any successive eccentric and concentric phases. Lest this seem pedantic, it is important to note that the extra transition phase often is used by serious bodybuilders to offer a few seconds of 'peak contraction' or even a pause to facilitate recovery (thus creating what some bodybuilders call rest-pause training). Even the three digit code has certain other limitations. The difference between a phase labelled as " 0 " or " X " is so vague as to make one wonder if any distinction between the two abbreviations is not redundant. Moreover, the digits given tend to disguise the fact that the rate of force development is not constant throughout any movement, so that a phase which lasts for 4 seconds could comprise a 1-second initial acceleration, followed by a 2-second stage around one's sticking point, and terminated by a 1-second deceleration stage. Or, the 4- second phase could be more approximately uniform in force production. This fact is well known to bodybuilders who like to use 'compensatory acceleration training' (CAT), which involves deliberately accelerating the load as soon as it begins to feel light. Thus, to someone using CAT, the tempo code 412 would offer significantly different training from someone using more conventional methods of training. Of course, it should be obvious that the use of three or four digit tempo codes is either irrelevant or impossible with many Olympic lifting exercises. Not only does the use of momentum and ballistic action form an important part of these rapid movements, but some of the exercises completely omit the eccentric phase for some of the participating muscles, especially if rubber bumper plates are used to allow the lifter to drop the bar after a snatch, clean, jerk or pull. Even in bodybuilding, where advanced trainees use only 'negatives' (eccentrics) or 'positives' (concentrics), with or without the help of a partner, tempo codes play no valuable role at all. In other words, tempo codes may be of value for limited rudimentary applications among the average public, but disguise more than they offer in the case of athletes with more sophisticated needs. " *** -------- Carruthers Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 , Thank you for the very complete response to a portion of one of my posts. Clearly tempos cannot be used on Olymipic lifts, nor are they employed with the simplicity with which I described them, if they are used at all. I would also contend that it is very impractical to use tempos, and that most individuals do not use them. In the context of my entire message I was simply attempting to illustrate the fact the manner in which a weight is lifted (explosively, or with focus on the eccentric or concentric portion of the lift, etc.) is one of the many factors that influence the acute and chronic responses to exercise, particularly the stimulation of hypertrophy. Your response was very logical and concise and served as an excellent adjunct to my meassage. Thank you again for the clarification. Respectfully, Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > > <<Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and > eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed > explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is > the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec > concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect > force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle > changes such as these make a world of difference.>> > > **TEMPO TIMING NEEDS TEMPERING > > Siff M C " Facts and Fallacies of Fitness " (1995, 1998 editions) / > Supertraining. > > Fallacy: Prescription of duration of the eccentric, concentric and > isometric phases of an exercise is an effective way of stipulating > movement tempo > > For many years more precise bodybuilders have been using a three > digit number to describe the tempo of the different phases of any > training repetition in an attempt to be more exact in defining the > speed of movement throughout an exercise. > > The first, second and final digits refer to the duration in seconds > of the eccentric, isometric and concentric phases of the repetition, > respectively (i.e. E-I-C). Thus, the code 402 means that the > eccentric phase lasts 4 seconds, the isometric phase is of minimal > duration and the concentric phase is 2 seconds. The Nautilus company > would have us believe that they pioneered this nomenclature, but it > was in use years before they came into existence. More lately the > letter X has been added to indicate an explosive or extremely rapid > phase. Thus 40X means a 4-second eccentric phase is followed by an > insignificantly long isometric phase and finally an explosive > concentric phase. > > Superficially, this scheme would appear to be quantitatively precise, > but in practice bodybuilders have usually counted seconds mentally to > give a rough idea of duration of each phase. Even then, this scheme > assumes that there are only three phases to all resistance exercises, > based on the assumption that there is only one isometric or > transition phase between the eccentric and concentric phases. In > fact, there are four phases to any movement: the usual three that we > have just discussed, plus another transition phase between the end of > the concentric phase and the beginning of the eccentric phase. In > other words, a more complete 'tempo code' for all exercises should > be E-T-C-T, where T refers to the transition phase between any > successive eccentric and concentric phases. > > Lest this seem pedantic, it is important to note that the extra > transition phase often is used by serious bodybuilders to offer a few > seconds of 'peak contraction' or even a pause to facilitate recovery > (thus creating what some bodybuilders call rest-pause training). > Even the three digit code has certain other limitations. The > difference between a phase labelled as " 0 " or " X " is so vague as to > make one wonder if any distinction between the two abbreviations is > not redundant. > > Moreover, the digits given tend to disguise the fact that the rate of > force development is not constant throughout any movement, so that a > phase which lasts for 4 seconds could comprise a 1-second initial > acceleration, followed by a 2-second stage around one's sticking > point, and terminated by a 1-second deceleration stage. Or, the 4- > second phase could be more approximately uniform in force > production. This fact is well known to bodybuilders who > like to use 'compensatory acceleration training' (CAT), which > involves deliberately accelerating the load as soon as it begins to > feel light. Thus, to someone using CAT, the tempo code 412 would > offer significantly different training from someone using more > conventional methods of training. > > Of course, it should be obvious that the use of three or four digit > tempo codes is either irrelevant or impossible with many Olympic > lifting exercises. Not only does the use of momentum and ballistic > action form an important part of these rapid movements, but some of > the exercises completely omit the eccentric phase for some of the > participating muscles, especially if rubber bumper plates are used to > allow the lifter to drop the bar after a snatch, clean, jerk or > pull. Even in bodybuilding, where advanced trainees use only > 'negatives' (eccentrics) or 'positives' (concentrics), with or > without the help of a partner, tempo codes play no valuable role at > all. In other words, tempo codes may be of value for limited > rudimentary applications among the average public, but disguise more > than they offer in the case of athletes with more sophisticated > needs. " *** > > -------- > Carruthers > Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 , Thank you for the very complete response to a portion of one of my posts. Clearly tempos cannot be used on Olymipic lifts, nor are they employed with the simplicity with which I described them, if they are used at all. I would also contend that it is very impractical to use tempos, and that most individuals do not use them. In the context of my entire message I was simply attempting to illustrate the fact the manner in which a weight is lifted (explosively, or with focus on the eccentric or concentric portion of the lift, etc.) is one of the many factors that influence the acute and chronic responses to exercise, particularly the stimulation of hypertrophy. Your response was very logical and concise and served as an excellent adjunct to my meassage. Thank you again for the clarification. Respectfully, Roe, CSCS La Crosse, WI > > <<Is the individual performing slow efforts on the concentric and > eccentric portion of the lift, are the reps being performed > explosively or in a ballistic fashion. (Accordingly, what is > the tempo: 4 sec eccentric, 0 isometric at the bottom, 4 sec > concentric, 602, 212, 303, etc.) These two variables will affect > force, and tension, and the density/volume of the workout. Subtle > changes such as these make a world of difference.>> > > **TEMPO TIMING NEEDS TEMPERING > > Siff M C " Facts and Fallacies of Fitness " (1995, 1998 editions) / > Supertraining. > > Fallacy: Prescription of duration of the eccentric, concentric and > isometric phases of an exercise is an effective way of stipulating > movement tempo > > For many years more precise bodybuilders have been using a three > digit number to describe the tempo of the different phases of any > training repetition in an attempt to be more exact in defining the > speed of movement throughout an exercise. > > The first, second and final digits refer to the duration in seconds > of the eccentric, isometric and concentric phases of the repetition, > respectively (i.e. E-I-C). Thus, the code 402 means that the > eccentric phase lasts 4 seconds, the isometric phase is of minimal > duration and the concentric phase is 2 seconds. The Nautilus company > would have us believe that they pioneered this nomenclature, but it > was in use years before they came into existence. More lately the > letter X has been added to indicate an explosive or extremely rapid > phase. Thus 40X means a 4-second eccentric phase is followed by an > insignificantly long isometric phase and finally an explosive > concentric phase. > > Superficially, this scheme would appear to be quantitatively precise, > but in practice bodybuilders have usually counted seconds mentally to > give a rough idea of duration of each phase. Even then, this scheme > assumes that there are only three phases to all resistance exercises, > based on the assumption that there is only one isometric or > transition phase between the eccentric and concentric phases. In > fact, there are four phases to any movement: the usual three that we > have just discussed, plus another transition phase between the end of > the concentric phase and the beginning of the eccentric phase. In > other words, a more complete 'tempo code' for all exercises should > be E-T-C-T, where T refers to the transition phase between any > successive eccentric and concentric phases. > > Lest this seem pedantic, it is important to note that the extra > transition phase often is used by serious bodybuilders to offer a few > seconds of 'peak contraction' or even a pause to facilitate recovery > (thus creating what some bodybuilders call rest-pause training). > Even the three digit code has certain other limitations. The > difference between a phase labelled as " 0 " or " X " is so vague as to > make one wonder if any distinction between the two abbreviations is > not redundant. > > Moreover, the digits given tend to disguise the fact that the rate of > force development is not constant throughout any movement, so that a > phase which lasts for 4 seconds could comprise a 1-second initial > acceleration, followed by a 2-second stage around one's sticking > point, and terminated by a 1-second deceleration stage. Or, the 4- > second phase could be more approximately uniform in force > production. This fact is well known to bodybuilders who > like to use 'compensatory acceleration training' (CAT), which > involves deliberately accelerating the load as soon as it begins to > feel light. Thus, to someone using CAT, the tempo code 412 would > offer significantly different training from someone using more > conventional methods of training. > > Of course, it should be obvious that the use of three or four digit > tempo codes is either irrelevant or impossible with many Olympic > lifting exercises. Not only does the use of momentum and ballistic > action form an important part of these rapid movements, but some of > the exercises completely omit the eccentric phase for some of the > participating muscles, especially if rubber bumper plates are used to > allow the lifter to drop the bar after a snatch, clean, jerk or > pull. Even in bodybuilding, where advanced trainees use only > 'negatives' (eccentrics) or 'positives' (concentrics), with or > without the help of a partner, tempo codes play no valuable role at > all. In other words, tempo codes may be of value for limited > rudimentary applications among the average public, but disguise more > than they offer in the case of athletes with more sophisticated > needs. " *** > > -------- > Carruthers > Wakefield, UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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