Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of LDN?

[Guest guest]

Hello Kathi,

thank you for your answer.

I ´ve got a bottle with 500ml water in den fridge and within are 50mg

Naltrexone.

So I took first about 3 mg Naltrexone altogether twice a day (2 x 15

ml). In a second trail I took once a day 1,5-2 mg (15-20ml)

Naltrexone in the evening. My girlfriend recognized this every time

very fast because of my changed behavior. (this was just reversible

very fast)

I think it is remarkable that there is probably a psychological

effect. (Very sensitive and well know friends can see this probably?)

(Naltrexone in very high dose is also used in different kind

of " perversions " , ...)

I think there is a difference in our sights to desrcibe it as

you " was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad " .

The " anger " was on the side of my girlfriend, not on mine! I felt

fine.

Perhaps my girlfriend does not like me to be " calmed down " ?

kind regards

stefan

[Guest guest]

Dear Stefan,

I had a bit of a difficult time with the translation from your message. But

what I think you are saying is that LDN has caused you to be in a more

provoked or irritated mood. This chat site has so many stories and

observations brought up with all of our experiences. I don't think that

this is a very prevalent response at all. I am sure it effects everyone a

bit differently, but typically the mood is elevated.

My husband had the effect of " being more awake " as you put it but his mood

had not gotten worse or better. He was depressed before taking LDN, and

during LDN (even though his fatigue was gone and he was getting so much

better). He tried many other medications for anti depression, but the

depression did not go away until he started taking 500mg of DL-Phenylalanine

twice a day on an empty stomach. His depression lifted right away and he

has not been depressed since last February. Perhaps you can give that a

try. Also, you may wish to take supplements and look into your diet. They

also seem to make a big difference in mood and symptoms for MS.

My best

Aletha

[low dose naltrexone] my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of

LDN?

I´m a 34 year old psychotherapist from Berlin Germany and I got my MS

diagnosis in 2000. My EDSS is 1,5 last time fixed in 2002. My

symptomatics are: various sensitivity disturbances, pressure on

eyes..., but no visible restrictions from the fact that the children

(between 9 and 13 years old) of the group of children can run usually

faster around the table than I can.

Due to increased pressure on the eyes... since November 04 I took LDN.

Due to a clearly psychological effect of the LDNs, I put down the LDN

in March 05. As clearly as the LDN showed certain symptom

improvements it showed to me and my friends also a psychological

effect. As well known Naltrexone is attributed (in higher dose) to do

such effects, I got sceptical.

So in the meantime I took LDN several times " secret " . Since I have up-

to-date no increased symptoms, the perceptible effectiveness held

itself thereby within limits, and/or remained nearly imperceptible.

Also otherwise I could not determine changes in me or my behavior,

only my girlfriend reacted increasingly more " provoked " on me. When I

left the LDN away, the situation " normalized " fast. In order to my

LDN appeared several times the same phenomenon: Stefan takes secretly

LDN - his girlfriend reacts " provoked " ! Reproaches regarding " feeling-

poor, withdrawn, in addition, more awake, mean up to provoked " , were

submitted to me, which I could not see at all. Otherwise at least at

home " the kindness in person " (thats me) seemed to be completely

clearly noticeable the effect of the LDN. (not for me)

Result: a secretly accomplished, (morally not completely harmless),

placebo-uncontrolled, simply blind LDN study with one participant

shows unpleasant perception concerning a psychological change

obviously caused by LDN.

My girlfriend says LDN makes me a " provoked, emotionless, reserved,

coolly however nevertheless very awake peson " (original quotation).

The LDN consuming subject seems to notice from all that nothing, and

I could take only with much astonishment the appropriate perception

of the described change to the knowledge.

Or does the psychological effect have to do here only with the fact

that it concerns obviously a " mad psychopath " , while the LDN keeps

all the others remained humans here without effects?

Did I make an experiment here only with a " wrongway driver " ? Should

an extensive psychoanalysis for example have been mistaken?

Or are there any other LDN Users or their friends or familys who

recognize similar effects caused by LDN?

Greetings

stefan

Mistakes due to the translation are made by google, I´m sorry.

(I believe the Evers " study " is a " potemkin village " , only to promote

the Evers Clinic)

[Guest guest]

the 4.5 definitely changed my behavior for 2 days but I stopped it. I was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad was about to happen. it was a feeling of malaise but I don't know if it would have continued because I wouldn't go through that trial to find out. I do fine on 3.0. it is working for me beyond a doubt in my opinion. I had to stop LDN a week ago because of a neck injury and have unfortunately been taking pain meds to continue working. i have had some pins and needles that I never had for 2 years. the bottom line for me is to get back on the LDN next week and I'm actually glad to report this to everyone in this group who may be a new user!! LDN definitely helps the immune system . It just further confirmed my belief in the treatment. LDN user since Nov/2003. Blessings, Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of LDN?

I´m a 34 year old psychotherapist from Berlin Germany and I got my MS diagnosis in 2000. My EDSS is 1,5 last time fixed in 2002. My symptomatics are: various sensitivity disturbances, pressure on eyes..., but no visible restrictions from the fact that the children (between 9 and 13 years old) of the group of children can run usually faster around the table than I can.Due to increased pressure on the eyes... since November 04 I took LDN.Due to a clearly psychological effect of the LDNs, I put down the LDN in March 05. As clearly as the LDN showed certain symptom improvements it showed to me and my friends also a psychological effect. As well known Naltrexone is attributed (in higher dose) to do such effects, I got sceptical.So in the meantime I took LDN several times "secret". Since I have up-to-date no increased symptoms, the perceptible effectiveness held itself thereby within limits, and/or remained nearly imperceptible. Also otherwise I could not determine changes in me or my behavior, only my girlfriend reacted increasingly more "provoked" on me. When I left the LDN away, the situation "normalized" fast. In order to my LDN appeared several times the same phenomenon: Stefan takes secretly LDN - his girlfriend reacts "provoked"! Reproaches regarding "feeling-poor, withdrawn, in addition, more awake, mean up to provoked", were submitted to me, which I could not see at all. Otherwise at least at home "the kindness in person" (thats me) seemed to be completely clearly noticeable the effect of the LDN. (not for me) Result: a secretly accomplished, (morally not completely harmless), placebo-uncontrolled, simply blind LDN study with one participant shows unpleasant perception concerning a psychological change obviously caused by LDN. My girlfriend says LDN makes me a "provoked, emotionless, reserved, coolly however nevertheless very awake peson" (original quotation). The LDN consuming subject seems to notice from all that nothing, and I could take only with much astonishment the appropriate perception of the described change to the knowledge. Or does the psychological effect have to do here only with the fact that it concerns obviously a "mad psychopath", while the LDN keeps all the others remained humans here without effects? Did I make an experiment here only with a "wrongway driver"? Should an extensive psychoanalysis for example have been mistaken? Or are there any other LDN Users or their friends or familys who recognize similar effects caused by LDN?Greetingsstefan Mistakes due to the translation are made by google, I´m sorry. (I believe the Evers "study" is a "potemkin village", only to promote the Evers Clinic)

[Guest guest]

Hello Aletha,

thank you for your answer!

Indeed I´ve got no problems with depression, and in fact generally it

was not me, who had the problems with the LDN. It was my girlfriend.

My MS is very " silent " and discret so perhaps I became not so glad

about the great effects? Also I ´m not so shure about LDN stops the

progression... .

But obviosly (not for me but for my girlfriend) the LDN changed my

mood, and my question is, if anybody else has made this experience that

his partner etc. .. has this problem with ldn?

my best

stefan

[Guest guest]

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the clarification. Is your girlfriend on LDN too, or is she just

reacting to the way you are behaving on LDN, or is she just concerned about

your taking LDN?

Thanks

Aletha

[low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological

effects of LDN?

Hello Aletha,

thank you for your answer!

Indeed I´ve got no problems with depression, and in fact generally it

was not me, who had the problems with the LDN. It was my girlfriend.

My MS is very " silent " and discret so perhaps I became not so glad

about the great effects? Also I ´m not so shure about LDN stops the

progression... .

But obviosly (not for me but for my girlfriend) the LDN changed my

mood, and my question is, if anybody else has made this experience that

his partner etc. .. has this problem with ldn?

my best

stefan

[Guest guest]

Hello Aletha,

I live together with my girlfriend. She has got no MS, so she does not

take LDN. She did not know when I was taking LDN but she recognized it

several times by the way I was behaving on LDN. For me the LDN made not

a great difference for my mood but for her.

kind regards

stefan

[Guest guest]

O, I could not find my answer?! Perhaps something went wrong?

>

So another time:

I live together with my girlfriend. She has got no MS so she does not

take LDN.

She did not know, when I took the LDN, but serveral times she could

recognize it, by the way of my behavior.

For me this was not the problem but for her.

stefan

> Thanks for the clarification. Is your girlfriend on LDN too, or is

she just

> reacting to the way you are behaving on LDN, or is she just

concerned about

> your taking LDN?

>

> Thanks

> Aletha

> [low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience:

psychological

> effects of LDN?

>

>

> Hello Aletha,

>

> thank you for your answer!

>

> Indeed I´ve got no problems with depression, and in fact generally

it

> was not me, who had the problems with the LDN. It was my girlfriend.

>

> My MS is very " silent " and discret so perhaps I became not so glad

> about the great effects? Also I ´m not so shure about LDN stops the

> progression... .

>

> But obviosly (not for me but for my girlfriend) the LDN changed my

> mood, and my question is, if anybody else has made this experience

that

> his partner etc. .. has this problem with ldn?

>

> my best

>

> stefan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I took between about 1,5 mg a day and 4 mg Naltrexone a day.

At last I took 2 mg in the evening.

stefan

[Guest guest]

i don't understand how many mgs you are talking about. what is the lowest range you have taken in one day and what is the highest? thanks, kathy

[low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of LDN?

Hello Kathi,thank you for your answer.I ´ve got a bottle with 500ml water in den fridge and within are 50mg Naltrexone.So I took first about 3 mg Naltrexone altogether twice a day (2 x 15 ml). In a second trail I took once a day 1,5-2 mg (15-20ml) Naltrexone in the evening. My girlfriend recognized this every time very fast because of my changed behavior. (this was just reversible very fast)I think it is remarkable that there is probably a psychological effect. (Very sensitive and well know friends can see this probably?) (Naltrexone in very high dose is also used in different kind of "perversions", ...) I think there is a difference in our sights to desrcibe it as you "was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad". The "anger" was on the side of my girlfriend, not on mine! I felt fine.Perhaps my girlfriend does not like me to be "calmed down"? kind regardsstefan

[Guest guest]

--- In low dose naltrexone , " kathy lintzenich " <mykittypaws@a...>

wrote:

> i don't understand how many mgs you are talking about. what is the lowest

range you have taken in one day and what is the highest? thanks, kathy

> [low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological

effects of LDN?

>

>

> Hello Kathi,

>

> thank you for your answer.

>

> I ´ve got a bottle with 500ml water in den fridge and within are 50mg

> Naltrexone.

>

> So I took first about 3 mg Naltrexone altogether twice a day (2 x 15

> ml). In a second trail I took once a day 1,5-2 mg (15-20ml)

> Naltrexone in the evening. My girlfriend recognized this every time

> very fast because of my changed behavior. (this was just reversible

> very fast)

>

> I think it is remarkable that there is probably a psychological

> effect. (Very sensitive and well know friends can see this probably?)

> (Naltrexone in very high dose is also used in different kind

> of " perversions " , ...)

>

> I think there is a difference in our sights to desrcibe it as

> you " was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad " .

> The " anger " was on the side of my girlfriend, not on mine! I felt

> fine.

>

> Perhaps my girlfriend does not like me to be " calmed down " ?

>

> kind regards

>

> stefan

>

========

Stefan,

With LDN calming you down you may be seeing your girlfriend in a different

light/way. You may be looking at life and people differently on LDN.

[Guest guest]

I was thinking the same thing or maybe because your girlfriend knows you are taking something a little controversial she has a self-fulfilling prophecy thinking you are going to act differently and then because she is expecting it you are acting differently. I don't know about this increased endorphin production and all the things it can do at such a low dose. I know everyone is different and I'm not discrediting what you are saying but I would think it would elevate your mood. However, just an increase of 3.of to 4.5 had a dramatic effect on me to my surprise and I wasn't expecting any noticeable difference except positive. I guess there is much to learn about this. are you taking anything else with it as far as meds go? Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of LDN?> > > Hello Kathi,> > thank you for your answer.> > I ´ve got a bottle with 500ml water in den fridge and within are 50mg > Naltrexone.> > So I took first about 3 mg Naltrexone altogether twice a day (2 x 15 > ml). In a second trail I took once a day 1,5-2 mg (15-20ml) > Naltrexone in the evening. My girlfriend recognized this every time > very fast because of my changed behavior. (this was just reversible > very fast)> > I think it is remarkable that there is probably a psychological > effect. (Very sensitive and well know friends can see this probably?) > (Naltrexone in very high dose is also used in different kind > of "perversions", ...) > > I think there is a difference in our sights to desrcibe it as > you "was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad". > The "anger" was on the side of my girlfriend, not on mine! I felt > fine.> > Perhaps my girlfriend does not like me to be "calmed down"? > > kind regards> > stefan>========Stefan,With LDN calming you down you may be seeing your girlfriend in a different light/way. You may be looking at life and people differently on LDN.

[Guest guest]

Stephan, i just got what you are saying. so take the LDN without her knowing and see if she thinks you are acting differently. maybe she is fearful oo you taking it. if you feel fine, why stop? you have to do what is best to manage your condition. i hope it all works out for you. i have more belief in the value of LDN as time progresses. good luck to you and tell her you need emotional support right now !!! hope i'm not getting you in trouble. Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological effects of LDN?> > > Hello Kathi,> > thank you for your answer.> > I ´ve got a bottle with 500ml water in den fridge and within are 50mg > Naltrexone.> > So I took first about 3 mg Naltrexone altogether twice a day (2 x 15 > ml). In a second trail I took once a day 1,5-2 mg (15-20ml) > Naltrexone in the evening. My girlfriend recognized this every time > very fast because of my changed behavior. (this was just reversible > very fast)> > I think it is remarkable that there is probably a psychological > effect. (Very sensitive and well know friends can see this probably?) > (Naltrexone in very high dose is also used in different kind > of "perversions", ...) > > I think there is a difference in our sights to desrcibe it as > you "was withdrawn, depressed and felt like something bad". > The "anger" was on the side of my girlfriend, not on mine! I felt > fine.> > Perhaps my girlfriend does not like me to be "calmed down"? > > kind regards> > stefan>========Stefan,With LDN calming you down you may be seeing your girlfriend in a different light/way. You may be looking at life and people differently on LDN.

[Guest guest]

Hi Stefan,

Do you realize that the recommended does is either 3mg (most men do best on

this) or 4.5 (most women do best on this), and it is suggested to only take

it between 9pm to 3pm and only once a day? It sounds like you are doing a

lot of variances.

Aletha

[low dose naltrexone] Re: my own LDN Experience: psychological

effects of LDN?

i´m talking about between 2 mg and 4 mg naltrexone a day.

Because of the bottle it is easy to vary. In the first time it depended

on my mood/symptoms if I took more or less (between 2 mg and 4 mg) and

at last I took 2 mg in the evening

stefan

[Guest guest]

I ve got some problems with the refresh function in this forum, so I

can´t see your answers on this side. I found them in my eMail

box... .

First of all, my girlfriend did not know when I was taking LDN. So it

has nothing to do with a self-fulfilling prophecy, I believe.

My question is, if anybody else has such experiences, too?

wrote for example:

http://ldn.proboards3.com/index.cgi?

action=display & board=forum & thread=1120999298

" I know I look at things differently since going on LDN. "

I think not in every case it is bad, to look at things differently,

but if this fact is the effect of a drug, I´m afraid of it. In

addition it is my girlfriend who recognizes this change and it is not

me.

I think there is not such a great difference in taking 2 mg or 4 mg

on me. This is what my experiences say.

A little bit more about me:

I ve got some experience in taking LDN, yet. In Germany I´ve

writen a

public letter to inform other MS-patients last year, signed by a lot

of LDN users (about 35). In Germany LDN is not very well known, and

the lobby of the pharmaindustry etc. is also not very amused about

the LDN. The study of the German " Evers clinic " about LDN went

absolutly wrong in my opinion. (The result says, there are no

significant symptomatical effects of the LDN. By the way, there was a

clinical usual treatment of the symptoms given in the clinique during

the study, so I think it is no surprice, that there is such a weak

result. Perhaps it was a good advertisment for Evers, but I was no

good advertisment for the LDN, I´m afraid.)

In opportunity I live in Berlin the hometown of Schering, I will see,

what I can do... for example at the next shareholder meeting ;-)

Perhaps it would be helpful to ask here about some questions to

Schering? But this is not the right moment yet, I believe.

best regards

stefan

[Guest guest]

Hello Lane,

I took LDN bevor I went to bed, last time.

Alcohol or other drugs are no problem for me. I drink very rarly...

and I could not find any difference with or without the LDN.

Perhaps it has something to do with the symptoms and EDSS of the MS?

My MS handicaps me not very much, I´m not retired... and also if my

girlfriend mentioned, that I´m " more awake " with LDN there are no

great problems, with fatique or so.

I think the change under LDN is difficult to describe: but I belive,

my girlfriend is right, and there is a change in my mood... .

I think it is not soo important, to describe this change exactly. I

think it is important to mention, that there is a change.

I believe, that for many users the LDN is a great hope and a great

chance. It is a chance to get influence on the symptomes... .

But I also think, that there is a price for this. I `m afraid, that

LDN is a drug having influence on my mood, that there are

psychological effects. I think these effects may be very different

depend on the person, depend on the degree of EDSS,...

Obviously there are not very much users, woh have made the same

experiences? Most of them desribes positive changes and I wish all of

you a lot of such positive changes!

kind regards

stefan

I you are taking 10 mil of your attenuated brew you are certainly

getting

the right dose; and if you are taking it between 9 pm and roughly

midnight

you are taking it at the right physiological time.

I am a psychologist too, though retired now; and you raise an

interesting

question. I asked my wife (also with a degree in psychology) if she

had

noticed any changes in me such as you mention. (I have been on 3mg

for

about

three months.) She says she has not; but that there IS a change in

that

I,

having definitely gained energy, and therefore initiative, am more

positive

and upbeat. I am doing things.I have now, she says, 'a spring in my

step',

which she feels good about.

Your descriptions of your presumed symptoms as described by your

girlfriend

are somewhat hard to assess,

as the Babelfish translation leaves much to be desired. Do you mean

that she

thinks you are more aggressive or provocative? Or do you feel more

positive

in yourself with the immune boost and are seen as more self-

assertive?

Are

there other variables, such as e.g drinking more alcohol?

You may e-mail me direct if you wish to discuss this further, in

which

case

you may tell me about it in German.

Kind regards

Lane

[Guest guest]

I'm just catching up with all the July messages now. Stefan, this may

be a rude thing to say, but is it possible that your depressed

girlfriend is afraid that if your MS gets better you won't want her?

(She may not even realize that she is doing this--it may be

subconscious.) I myself think I would want to stay on the LDN for a

few months, let it stabalize (it took me about 3 months) and then

observe how many people are saying that I have a personality change

and who they are. I have been on LDN since Sept. 2004 and It has

repaired some of the numbness, and most of the fatigue. Also, my brain

is sharper again. I would not want to give it up!

Daphne

> But obviosly (not for me but for my girlfriend) the LDN changed my

> mood, and my question is, if anybody else has made this experience

that

> his partner etc. .. has this problem with ldn?

> my best

> stefan