Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 In a message dated 9/20/03 6:54:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sarah.ramey@... writes: > Supertraining Group, > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > Ramey > Boulder, CO Wobble board or balance disk for most is a real waste of time. What these devices are great at is separating you from your money. I am amazed at how many people are sucked into this type of training...primarily the general public. Many other useful methods can be employed by athletes to enhance their skills in a sport while developing balance, speed, power, etc. Tudor Bompa, Ian King and a few other reputable strength coaches share the same view as I. Here is Bompa's thoughts on balance training. Athletes, Coaches, and Strippers An Overview of NSCA Sport-Specific Training Conference Tudor's two presentations at the conference were interesting and controversial on several levels. The funny part was that after listening to half a dozen coaches talk about Swiss balls, wobble boards, and balance training (not to mention an exhibit hall full of this type of training equipment), Tudor gives a presentation called " The Fallacy of Balance Training " ! Needless to say, this irked several members of the audience who'd probably just purchased a bunch of wobbly pancake thingies for their teams. Here are the good parts: Tudor said that balance training is only good for women's gymnastics, and even they don't use all this gimmicky equipment. Instead, they train for balance on the apparatus itself. (This is the part where the audience started to whisper and get worried.) Balance training, for the most part, he said, was a waste of time. http://www.t-mag.com/articles/193athl2.html Kenny Croxdale Rio Rancho, NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 In a message dated 9/20/03 6:54:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sarah.ramey@... writes: > Supertraining Group, > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > Ramey > Boulder, CO Wobble board or balance disk for most is a real waste of time. What these devices are great at is separating you from your money. I am amazed at how many people are sucked into this type of training...primarily the general public. Many other useful methods can be employed by athletes to enhance their skills in a sport while developing balance, speed, power, etc. Tudor Bompa, Ian King and a few other reputable strength coaches share the same view as I. Here is Bompa's thoughts on balance training. Athletes, Coaches, and Strippers An Overview of NSCA Sport-Specific Training Conference Tudor's two presentations at the conference were interesting and controversial on several levels. The funny part was that after listening to half a dozen coaches talk about Swiss balls, wobble boards, and balance training (not to mention an exhibit hall full of this type of training equipment), Tudor gives a presentation called " The Fallacy of Balance Training " ! Needless to say, this irked several members of the audience who'd probably just purchased a bunch of wobbly pancake thingies for their teams. Here are the good parts: Tudor said that balance training is only good for women's gymnastics, and even they don't use all this gimmicky equipment. Instead, they train for balance on the apparatus itself. (This is the part where the audience started to whisper and get worried.) Balance training, for the most part, he said, was a waste of time. http://www.t-mag.com/articles/193athl2.html Kenny Croxdale Rio Rancho, NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 : I take a reverse approach on this as compared to my usual thinking but my feeling is unless they prove there is no benefit in terms of improved balance and improved joint stability, we are going to have our athletes use the balance disks in their workouts. Further, if the athlete feels it is of benefit then it probably will be! Thanks, Hedrick U.S. Air Force Academy Denver, Colarado Balance Boards > Supertraining Group, > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > Ramey > Boulder, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 : I take a reverse approach on this as compared to my usual thinking but my feeling is unless they prove there is no benefit in terms of improved balance and improved joint stability, we are going to have our athletes use the balance disks in their workouts. Further, if the athlete feels it is of benefit then it probably will be! Thanks, Hedrick U.S. Air Force Academy Denver, Colarado Balance Boards > Supertraining Group, > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > Ramey > Boulder, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 In a message dated 9/20/2003 8:54:06 AM Central Daylight Time, sarah.ramey@... writes: > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board > or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? As Mel would often say: It sure does, if the field you're playing on wobbles... Seriously though, there may be a benefit in that these activities provide a somewhat different dynamic for athletes who need restoration/recovery from periods of overloading that have resulted in injury or performance drops. I've known injured collegiate distance runners who have done various kinds of instability routines on foam rollers, KP boards, etc. They come back two or three weeks later and run faster than they did before the instability training. The question: was it the instability training itself that made this breakthrough, or does it have something to do with the fact that we've given the athlete a novel means to recover from heavy overloading of specific muscles? For example, when I work with high school high jumpers who are concerned about performance plateaus, my suspicion is that they are jumping far too much and far too often to allow of adaptation/supercompensation. For a week or two, I switch the dynamic completely--they do all kinds of crazy jumps, take-offs from the opposite leg, etc. Ironcially, these are the same athletes who report that, when the season starts, and they come right from basketball, they felt as if they could jump right out of the gym. However, once the begin very specific kinds of " jump training " for this event, and do this several times a week while still competing...something has to give.... Mel even mentions this specific loading phenomenon in Supertraining when he notes that certain exercises (I think he used the triple jump as an example) exert a more intense local influence on the plantar flexors than other muscles of the lower extremity, and consequently depresses their functional state. Such loading may not be as high on the thigh extensors so that their functional indicators reflect a high value. In other words, the athletes notices that " movement coordination is difficult although, on the whole, he [the athlete] feels perfectly fit. " Perhaps this is the time for foam rollers, wobbles boards, mini trams, etc. However, the danger may be in assuming that these methodics, in themselves, were the reason for the performance breakthrough. Regards, Ken Jakalski Lisle High School Lisle, Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 No, in my experience it doesn't help to improve any stability or balance in healthy athletes. Performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board is what I would consider a minimally dynamic movement skill and it does not transfer to anything other than doing those exercises on a wobble board. Creating more dynamic situations such as judo exercises may have more potential for transfer (of the motor qualities). Doing a full Snatch is also a dynamic movement that many S & C coaches use to develop motor qualities for other athletes. I think the olympic lifts and other highly dynamic exercises (like actual sport practice) will do a lot more for balance than a silly wobble board. Gabe Rinaldi Los Altos, CA > Supertraining Group, > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board > or > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > Ramey > Boulder, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 What has to be considered are the external forces CAUSING the 'poor balance' or 'joint instability.' If a person cannot stand upright without joint instability, then by all means, the balancing discs will help with knee and ankle proprioception and stability. If a person has trouble flexing or extending the knee while under load (i.e. standing or squatting down) then dynamic movement on the disc is warranted. However, when the activity in question is of a multiplanar nature, other forces, such as horizontal momentum and semilateral forces against the foot (i.e. cutting in football) have to be used in training to make the training appropriate. To put it more simply (I'm a simpleton, after all) how does the stability required to move only in a vertical plane transfer to the 'stability' required to remain upright on turf, ice, or clay, or sand? If a player took a running start at one of the current stability toys, leapt and landed on one foot on the disc and bounded off again perpendicular to his original line of force, THEN it would warrant attention. An earlier post made a very good point (to paraphrase) - when the field tilts, so should the training surface. > Further, if the athlete feels it is of > benefit then it probably will be! A horse would like to live on sugar cubes all day, but wouldn't win many Kentucky Derbies if it did. > What drew my attention, Mr. Hedrick, was the comment " ...my > feeling is unless they prove there is no benefit in terms of improved > balance and improved joint stability, we are going to have our athletes use > the balance disks in their workouts. " Who are THEY, if not YOU and I and WE here? This looks like a line I'd post and then wince over the next morning - I'm sure it didn't come out as you meant it. While absence of proof is not necessarily proof of absence, I think it behooves us to consider the physics required to change direction rapidly in sport; I'm sure there are very few moves possible on a rocker board that can mimic the dynamic of a football juke. CSCS Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario > Balance Boards > > > > Supertraining Group, > > > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board or > > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > > > Ramey > > Boulder, CO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 In regards to balance and wobble boards, I have had great improvement in my elderly, and beginner athletes as far as balance goes from using these apparatti. I know because that is the mainstay of our workout with these clients. Our basic approach is not unlike the Burdenko method wherein balance is the bulwark of athletic ability. As far as training athletes in this manner don't forget that some playing fields indeed do " wobble " . Surfing, skateboarding, skiing, horseback riding and hundreds of other venues wherein vestibular faculties must be acute, all benefit from challenging the equilibrium. Any sport where the center of gravity is trying to maintain its position over a constantly unstable base of support can reap these benefits in my opinion. I believe it is just good old fashion common sense but I guess it goes more to sport specific movements. Any input from Dr. Yessis or Mr. Buchenholz would be welcome in this department. Kanady Houston, Texas. In Supertraining , CoachJ1@a... wrote: > In a message dated 9/20/2003 8:54:06 AM Central Daylight Time, > sarah.ramey@c... writes: > > > In your experience, does performing sets of 15-30 seconds on a wobble board > > or > > balance disk initiate any stability or improved balance in your athletes? > > As Mel would often say: > > It sure does, if the field you're playing on wobbles... > > Seriously though, there may be a benefit in that these activities provide a > somewhat different dynamic for athletes who need restoration/recovery from > periods of overloading that have resulted in injury or performance drops. I've > known injured collegiate distance runners who have done various kinds of > instability routines on foam rollers, KP boards, etc. They come back two or three > weeks later and run faster than they did before the instability training. The > question: was it the instability training itself that made this breakthrough, > or does it have something to do with the fact that we've given the athlete a > novel means to recover from heavy overloading of specific muscles? For > example, when I work with high school high jumpers who are concerned about > performance plateaus, my suspicion is that they are jumping far too much and far too > often to allow of adaptation/supercompensation. For a week or two, I switch > the dynamic completely--they do all kinds of crazy jumps, take-offs from the > opposite leg, etc. Ironcially, these are the same athletes who report that, when > the season starts, and they come right from basketball, they felt as if they > could jump right out of the gym. However, once the begin very specific kinds > of " jump training " for this event, and do this several times a week while > still competing...something has to give.... > > Mel even mentions this specific loading phenomenon in Supertraining when he > notes that certain exercises (I think he used the triple jump as an example) > exert a more intense local influence on the plantar flexors than other muscles of > the lower extremity, and consequently depresses their functional state. Such > loading may not be as high on the thigh extensors so that their functional > indicators reflect a high value. In other words, the athletes notices that > " movement coordination is difficult although, on the whole, he [the athlete] feels > perfectly fit. " > > Perhaps this is the time for foam rollers, wobbles boards, mini trams, etc. > However, the danger may be in assuming that these methodics, in themselves, > were the reason for the performance breakthrough. > > Regards, > > Ken Jakalski > Lisle High School > Lisle, Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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