Hypertrophy/Strength and Fine Motor Control

July 26, 2003

Hello Supertrainers,

I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even moderate levels of

hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine motor control. I enjoy both

working out and playing an instrument and was wondering if anyone had any

thoughts or documentation on this. Thank you.

Winski

town, Pennsylvania

July 27, 2003

< I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even moderate

levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine motor control.>

I trained for a while with a top-ranked cello player. He didn't have

problems combining it with heavy squats and benches.

Brisbane, Australia

July 28, 2003

Dave,

This question has already been fielded, at least once, by the ever-

cheery Schaefer(something about her writing style puts a grin

on my face). However, I would like to add my two bits if I may.

The phrase " fine motor control " is a relatively broad topic of

discussion. Thus being said, since it is needless to thoroughly

elaborate on that phrase in order to satisfy your inquiry, I will

keep this reply to utmost brevity(relative to my usual explanations

at least).

Let me first preface by asking a simple question to direct the

conversation appropriately; By fine motor task did/does your PT refer

to threading a needle, strumming a guitar at an incredible rate, or

what exactly? Don't worry, it's not a quiz; in fact, you don't even

have to ask him- I will answer it for you. Fine motor tasks of

relative " simplicity " involving simple limited-step task-objective

criteria will NOT be affected by strength and/or hypertrophy

methodics. However, if these fine motor tasks involve relative

significance of the neuro-rate neurodynamic function then, and only

then, can and will neuro-duration work(such as much of the typical

strength/hypertrophy methodics) impede and even retract development.

This is due to the fact that these two aforementioned neurodynamic

functions are, essentially, " opposites " .

With these things in mind, let me finish with a one-two combo. (1)

If your music tempo isn't exceptionally great(i.e. let's say, NOT

likened to some underground, rave-gig-having, bash-your-head-until-

you-induce-a-coma punk band) then you may just have nothing to worry

about. (2) Don't over-analyze and simply put it to the test. If YOU

notice that your gym efforts are compromising your instrumental

efforts(or visa versa) then, and only then, consider altering your

program.

Hold on, I do have one last thing to add and then I will leave you in

peace, at last. If you are interested in more information on how

neuro-duration work may adversely effect neuro-rate work(and visa

versa) then it is suggested that you obtain some of the work that

L.R. Gundlach and S.M. Lavtovka have done in this regard(if I had the

exact reference in front of me I would give it to you but I am sure

you will be able to find it). One of the studies involved

an " interval rate(tap test) evaluation " and the augmentations of such

in respect to specific training modalities and methodics with Olympic

caliber track athletes. The other details the effects of strength

advancements with a series of fine motor tasks; one of which was

holding a drinking-straw in the mouth as the athlete closed one eye

and proceeded to inject a toothpick in the end. If nothing else, the

reading is good and the information definitely leads into an enormity

of possible discussions and training applications.

Evolution,

Dietrich Buchenholz

Grande, Germany

July 28, 2003

As opinion only: I am a physical therapist and also a powerlifter doing

only low rep training. I have no loss of fine motor control. Now I am

not a musician but I have no problems managing fine motor skills in

general life or for specific joint and muscle techniques that require

fine motor skills.

I would be curious if anyone has actual research that suggests there is

a detriment.

Blaine Mackie

Saskatoon Canada

>> Hello Supertrainers,

I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even moderate

levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine motor control.

I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument and was wondering if

anyone had any thoughts or documentation on this. Thank you.

Winski

town, Pennsylvania<<

July 29, 2003

> . I have no loss of fine motor control. Now I am

> not a musician but I have no problems managing fine motor skills in

> general life or for specific joint and muscle techniques that require

> fine motor skills.

> I would be curious if anyone has actual research that suggests

> there is a detriment.

I can only think of some anecdotal stories. Among the heavy lifters

I can remember from my gym in St.Barth was a famous retinal surgeon

who lifted very heavy with very poor form. He terrified me. I was

told he was one of the top retinal surgeons in the US. Among the

other heavy lifters were two cardiac surgeons, the first trumpet of

the Montreal Symphony, several fashion designers, and a lot of

stockbrokers.

Harvey Maron, M.D.

Steamboat Springs, CO

July 30, 2003

Just finished recording an album with one of my bands and even had an

hour of max effort squat work somewhere in the middle of the

recording weekend. Although drums aren't perhaps 'fine' on the motor

skills table, my speed and control have never been an issue.

Perhaps anecdotal, but it's all I've got. I will say I ain't to good

on the keys immediately following a heavy pull day.

Chip Conrad

Bodytribe Fitness

Sacramento, CA

> Hello Supertrainers,

>

> I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even

moderate levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine

motor control. I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument

and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or documentation on

this. Thank you.

>

> Winski

> town, Pennsylvania

July 30, 2003

Just finished recording an album with one of my bands and even had an

hour of max effort squat work somewhere in the middle of the

recording weekend. Although drums aren't perhaps 'fine' on the motor

skills table, my speed and control have never been an issue.

Perhaps anecdotal, but it's all I've got. I will say I ain't to good

on the keys immediately following a heavy pull day.

Chip Conrad

Bodytribe Fitness

Sacramento, CA

> Hello Supertrainers,

>

> I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even

moderate levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine

motor control. I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument

and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or documentation on

this. Thank you.

>

> Winski

> town, Pennsylvania

August 1, 2003

In regards to all this talk about heavy weight movements having a deleterious

effect on fine motor skills, the only case scenario I can imagine is heavy

benches done over time past the passive end range of motion, restricting

overhead movements in general and having a negative effect on throwing accuracy.

This would be due to proprioception being being thrown off because of damage to

the shoulder joint capsule itself.

Kanady

Houston, Texas

> Hello Supertrainers,

>

> I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even

moderate levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine

motor control. I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument

and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or documentation on

this. Thank you.

>

> Winski

> town, Pennsylvania

August 1, 2003

In regards to all this talk about heavy weight movements having a deleterious

effect on fine motor skills, the only case scenario I can imagine is heavy

benches done over time past the passive end range of motion, restricting

overhead movements in general and having a negative effect on throwing accuracy.

This would be due to proprioception being being thrown off because of damage to

the shoulder joint capsule itself.

Kanady

Houston, Texas

> Hello Supertrainers,

>

> I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even

moderate levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine

motor control. I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument

and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or documentation on

this. Thank you.

>

> Winski

> town, Pennsylvania

August 1, 2003

> Just finished recording an album with one of my bands and even had an

> hour of max effort squat work somewhere in the middle of the

> recording weekend. Although drums aren't perhaps 'fine' on the motor

> skills table, my speed and control have never been an issue.

>

> Perhaps anecdotal, but it's all I've got. I will say I ain't to good

> on the keys immediately following a heavy pull day.

>

> Chip Conrad

> Bodytribe Fitness

> Sacramento, CA

>

Is anybody else thinking what I'm thinking? What a fantastic new

form of complex training! I'm already trying to figure out where I

can fit a piano in the gym to have my trainees perform Fur Elise

after a set of heavy squats or Bench. The possibilities are endless,

by the way I'm trade marking this idea so everybody else keep your

hands off!

Ben Haines

Sydney, Australia

August 1, 2003

> Just finished recording an album with one of my bands and even had an

> hour of max effort squat work somewhere in the middle of the

> recording weekend. Although drums aren't perhaps 'fine' on the motor

> skills table, my speed and control have never been an issue.

>

> Perhaps anecdotal, but it's all I've got. I will say I ain't to good

> on the keys immediately following a heavy pull day.

>

> Chip Conrad

> Bodytribe Fitness

> Sacramento, CA

>

Is anybody else thinking what I'm thinking? What a fantastic new

form of complex training! I'm already trying to figure out where I

can fit a piano in the gym to have my trainees perform Fur Elise

after a set of heavy squats or Bench. The possibilities are endless,

by the way I'm trade marking this idea so everybody else keep your

hands off!

Ben Haines

Sydney, Australia

August 3, 2003

Strength trained subjects have been reported to have more synchronous motor

unit firing than the untrained (eg Milner-Brown et al., 1975) and musicians

have even lower levels of synchrony (in the intrinsic hand muscle - the

first dorsal interosseous) than the untrained (Semmler and Nordstrom, 1998).

Furthermore, strength trained subjects exhibit greater levels of force

tremor when attempting to maintain a constant force output than do untrained

or musically trained subjects (Semmler and Nordstrom, 1998). I presume that

some people think that enhanced motor unit synchrony is the cause of

increased tremor in strength trained subjects but the evidence is against

this (Semmler again), the cause is something else (I forget what, see the

Semmler paper).

None of this literature suggests that one cannot develop fine motor skills

while X-training in the gym. The FDI's increased tremor represents a

generalised adaptation to resistance training (it is evident in a muscle

that you don't train in the gym) so I'm sure that specific training of the

hand would over-ride any such apparent detrimental adaptation.

Milner-Brown, H. S., Stein, R. B., and Lee, R. G., (1975). Synchronization

of human motor units: Possible roles of exercise and supraspinal reflexes.

Electroencephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology, 38(3): 245-254.

Semmler, J. G., and Nordstrom, M. A., (1998). Motor unit discharge and force

tremor in skill- and strength-trained individuals. Experimental Brain

Research, 119(1): 27-38.

Regards

Tony Shield

Melbourne Australia

>

> > Hello Supertrainers,

> >

> > I was recently told by a physical therapist that high or even

> moderate levels of hypertrophy and/or low-rep strength impede fine

> motor control. I enjoy both working out and playing an instrument

> and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or documentation on

> this. Thank you.

> >

> > Winski

> > town, Pennsylvania

>

August 3, 2003