Re: Never hit a child please!

June 7, 2011

,I totally agree!! To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >Cc: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 11:03:41 PMSubject: Never hit a child please!

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior. Enough saidMy son has Aspergers, add & anxiety. Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really "love" them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature. Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a "loving" parent?--- Original Message ---Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

People always jump to the conclusion that you "beat" the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can "disipline" without fear > or pain?>> --- Original

Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@... > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had

a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I never said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a

lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it>

works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

June 7, 2011

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick. They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work. Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior. Enough saidMy son has Aspergers, add & anxiety. Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really "love" them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature. Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a "loving" parent?--- Original Message ---Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers Subject: Re

: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

People always jump to the conclusion that you "beat" the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can "disipline" without fear > or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@... > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev

er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a

lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it>

works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

June 7, 2011

When my older 2, both Aspies, were much younger I was recovering from being involved in a " High Control Group " (nice way of saying; CULT) that pushed a 'spare the rod; spoil the child' agenda. So, for a while, I was spanking my kids. I had been abused as a child and then corporal punishment was reinforced by the cult.

Spankings made my kids sneaky, they did not want to be caught and receive pain so they got sneaky. It also made them lie; anything to not be the one to get punished. They also started hitting each other and were mystified when I did not approve: " But he was being bad and wouldn't stop.... " Yeah, spanking was a flop. We moved on from it to; Positive Discipline; by Jane and things got very much better. That and therapy and finally excellent IEPs etc. ^_^

That's my 2 cents.

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick.

They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work.

Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

Enough saidMy son has Aspergers, add & anxiety. Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really " love " them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature.

Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a " loving " parent?--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re

: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

People always jump to the conclusion that you " beat " the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll

get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:

> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can " disipline " without fear

> or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@...

> <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers

> <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas

>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life

> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev

er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a

lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in

> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means

> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly

> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it

>

works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >

> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.

>>

-- Will work for books.

June 7, 2011

Hold techniques never worked for my daughter. It caused her to lash out violently, producing the opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve. There is no one style of parenting that fits all of our kids. We shouldn't come down on those parents who choose to spank. I know some families who do so very lovingly, never in anger, and they have loving and well behaved children. However, they don't have kids on the spectrum. Personally, I chose to spank for several years before I finally figured out it didn't work. My daughter is AS, ADD and ODD with sensory issues. She was WILD as a preschooler/early elementary kid. I didn't know about her dx at the time, and was reacting to accusations that I just wasn't strict enough. So I tried to

address every infraction I saw, thinking consistency would be the key. She'd cry, run from me, and tell me spanking didn't help. I thought she was just trying to get out of it. But when we finally got the dx at age 8, I immediately stopped spanking. She's now 11, and I know that most people think I'm too lenient, but I believe in correction, not just punishment. So while she may lose a privilege for outright disobedience, or spend some quiet time in her room to cool off from a meltdown, most of the time when she's doing something wrong I just tell her she's doing it, why it's wrong, what she should do instead, etc. I don't know if this will make a difference in the long term, but it sure does keep the peace around here.

Kiara

To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 7:31:42 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick.

They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work.

Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!

All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

Enough said

My son has Aspergers, add & anxiety.

Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really "love" them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature. Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a "loving" parent?--- Original Message ---Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers Subject: Re : threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas People always jump to the conclusion that you "beat" the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can "disipline" without fear > or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@... > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare

spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is

that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it> works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

June 7, 2011

I don't see anyone coming down on parents who spank; what I see are people objecting to spanking itself. Spanking is basically a bigger, stronger being using their physical advantage over beings who are smaller, weaker and under the stronger one's power. It teaches that might makes right and that the strong have the right to rule the weak. It also teaches that violence is an acceptable response to behaviors one objects to. Not lessons I think anyone wants their kids to absorb.

Hold techniques never worked for my daughter. It caused her to lash out violently, producing the opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve. There is no one style of parenting that fits all of our kids. We shouldn't come down on those parents who choose to spank. I know some families who do so very lovingly, never in anger, and they have loving and well behaved children. However, they don't have kids on the spectrum. Personally, I chose to spank for several years before I finally figured out it didn't work. My daughter is AS, ADD and ODD with sensory issues. She was WILD as a preschooler/early elementary kid. I didn't know about her dx at the time, and was reacting to accusations that I just wasn't strict enough. So I tried to

address every infraction I saw, thinking consistency would be the key. She'd cry, run from me, and tell me spanking didn't help. I thought she was just trying to get out of it. But when we finally got the dx at age 8, I immediately stopped spanking. She's now 11, and I know that most people think I'm too lenient, but I believe in correction, not just punishment. So while she may lose a privilege for outright disobedience, or spend some quiet time in her room to cool off from a meltdown, most of the time when she's doing something wrong I just tell her she's doing it, why it's wrong, what she should do instead, etc. I don't know if this will make a difference in the long term, but it sure does keep the peace around here.

Kiara

To: " autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 7:31:42 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick.

They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work.

Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!

All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

Enough said

My son has Aspergers, add & anxiety.

Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really " love " them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature.

Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a " loving " parent?--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re : threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas People always jump to the conclusion that you " beat " the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach

the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those

who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:

> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can " disipline " without fear

> or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@...

> <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers

> <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas

>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare

spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,

> each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he

> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be

> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.

> My experience is

that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it

> works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >

> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.

>>

-- Will work for books.

June 7, 2011

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a physical reminder of why it's a bad idea to do something before you develop the maturity/ability to think ahead. IMO, it should never be more than a few swats and really shouldn't be very painful either. I also don't see it being effective for older children. However, I can see why some people choose to do so. I know when I used to spank, I'd explain to my daughter that I really didn't want to spank her, and I always explained why she was being punished. Even though I don't spank any more, I still explain in detail why she's being punished. Discipline, by nature, is supposed to be painful in some way in order for us to want to avoid it. It's like knowing that speeding is unsafe, but lowering

our speed from fear of getting a ticket before worrying that we may cause a car accident. Anyway, to lump all parents who spank (which is still the majority of Americans) as abusers is unfair and not accurate, IMO.

Kiara

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 11:02:46 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I don't see anyone coming down on parents who spank; what I see are people objecting to spanking itself. Spanking is basically a bigger, stronger being using their physical advantage over beings who are smaller, weaker and under the stronger one's power. It teaches that might makes right and that the strong have the right to rule the weak. It also teaches that violence is an acceptable response to behaviors one objects to. Not lessons I think anyone wants their kids to absorb.

Hold techniques never worked for my daughter. It caused her to lash out violently, producing the opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve. There is no one style of parenting that fits all of our kids. We shouldn't come down on those parents who choose to spank. I know some families who do so very lovingly, never in anger, and they have loving and well behaved children. However, they don't have kids on the spectrum. Personally, I chose to spank for several years before I finally figured out it didn't work. My daughter is AS, ADD and ODD with sensory issues. She was WILD as a preschooler/early elementary kid. I didn't know about her dx at the time, and was reacting to accusations that I just wasn't strict enough. So I tried to address every infraction I saw, thinking consistency would be the key. She'd cry, run from me, and tell me spanking didn't help. I thought she was

just trying to get out of it. But when we finally got the dx at age 8, I immediately stopped spanking. She's now 11, and I know that most people think I'm too lenient, but I believe in correction, not just punishment. So while she may lose a privilege for outright disobedience, or spend some quiet time in her room to cool off from a meltdown, most of the time when she's doing something wrong I just tell her she's doing it, why it's wrong, what she should do instead, etc. I don't know if this will make a difference in the long term, but it sure does keep the peace around here.

Kiara

To: "autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 7:31:42 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick.

They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work.

Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!

All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

Enough said

My son has Aspergers, add & anxiety.

Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really "love" them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature. Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a "loving" parent?--- Original Message ---Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers Subject: Re : threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas People always jump to the conclusion that you "beat" the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can "disipline" without fear > or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@... > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is

back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it> works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with

spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

-- Will work for books.

June 7, 2011

Discipline should not be about pain or a need to avoid it. Fearing punishment for speeding means that one will continue to do if one thinks they will get away with it and it is convenient to do so. Teaching children respect and concern for others and themselves seems much more effective and logical to me. I don't speed because I don't want to cause harm to myself or others.

The book I mentioned before; Positive Discipline, is an excellent resource for parents who want to use logical consequences and positive methods of gaining cooperation from their children that do not involve fear of being disciplined. I understand that many people spank and I sympathize with parents who resort to it when they don't know what else to do, but widespread usage does not mean it is a good idea it just means a lot of people are doing it.

And all that said, I do get it that some people use it and think it is entirely fine. I don't turn in my neighbors if I see them spank their kids. I am not hysterical on this issue, I just think it teaches lessons parents do not intend.

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a physical reminder of why it's a bad idea to do something before you develop the maturity/ability to think ahead. IMO, it should never be more than a few swats and really shouldn't be very painful either. I also don't see it being effective for older children. However, I can see why some people choose to do so. I know when I used to spank, I'd explain to my daughter that I really didn't want to spank her, and I always explained why she was being punished. Even though I don't spank any more, I still explain in detail why she's being punished. Discipline, by nature, is supposed to be painful in some way in order for us to want to avoid it. It's like knowing that speeding is unsafe, but lowering

our speed from fear of getting a ticket before worrying that we may cause a car accident. Anyway, to lump all parents who spank (which is still the majority of Americans) as abusers is unfair and not accurate, IMO.

Kiara

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 11:02:46 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I don't see anyone coming down on parents who spank; what I see are people objecting to spanking itself. Spanking is basically a bigger, stronger being using their physical advantage over beings who are smaller, weaker and under the stronger one's power. It teaches that might makes right and that the strong have the right to rule the weak. It also teaches that violence is an acceptable response to behaviors one objects to. Not lessons I think anyone wants their kids to absorb.

Hold techniques never worked for my daughter. It caused her to lash out violently, producing the opposite effect of what I was trying to achieve. There is no one style of parenting that fits all of our kids. We shouldn't come down on those parents who choose to spank. I know some families who do so very lovingly, never in anger, and they have loving and well behaved children. However, they don't have kids on the spectrum. Personally, I chose to spank for several years before I finally figured out it didn't work. My daughter is AS, ADD and ODD with sensory issues. She was WILD as a preschooler/early elementary kid. I didn't know about her dx at the time, and was reacting to accusations that I just wasn't strict enough. So I tried to address every infraction I saw, thinking consistency would be the key. She'd cry, run from me, and tell me spanking didn't help. I thought she was

just trying to get out of it. But when we finally got the dx at age 8, I immediately stopped spanking. She's now 11, and I know that most people think I'm too lenient, but I believe in correction, not just punishment. So while she may lose a privilege for outright disobedience, or spend some quiet time in her room to cool off from a meltdown, most of the time when she's doing something wrong I just tell her she's doing it, why it's wrong, what she should do instead, etc. I don't know if this will make a difference in the long term, but it sure does keep the peace around here.

Kiara

To: " autism-aspergers " <autism-aspergers >

Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 7:31:42 AMSubject: Re: Never hit a child please!

I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety. With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick. Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain connection... These babies are sick.

They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies) can work.

Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But.... Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on the spectrum!

All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

Enough said

My son has Aspergers, add & anxiety.

Sent from my iPhone

You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

Read: 1,2,3 Magic

See Love & Logic

Dare To Discipline

To: autism-aspergers

Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PMSubject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas

So if you spank them daily you must really " love " them a ton, right? Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature.

Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just children with no power at the mercy of a " loving " parent?--- Original Message ---

Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re : threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson Lucas People always jump to the conclusion that you " beat " the child if you believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach

the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I think people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those

who do not.Carolynsrt12780@... wrote:

> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can " disipline " without fear

> or pain?>> --- Original Message --->> From: H <gideon_seventy@...

> <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers

> <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson

> Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that life

> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after

> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in

> the town he lives in to see if he is

back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need

> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>

> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it> works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.

>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem

> with

spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

-- Will work for books.

June 7, 2011

I don't know how you can hit someone "lovingly". I have spanked in the past but only because I grew up in a heavy handed family and really didn't know any better. Once I knew better, I stopped. I never used a belt or switch (both had been used on me) but a hit is a hit and its wrong. Making my child cry in pain is not something I want my kid to encode in their memory bank. I have 9 children total, 4 of which are grown and living out of the house. I have one with bipolar and is on "the autism spectrum" and yes, I get very frustrated with him and want to lash out at someone but how can I rationalize that? My husband also grew up in a heavy handed household and although he doesn't spank the kids, he thinks it could help with behavior. I disagree. I wish I had the golden answer but I dont. My son (he is 11) can be very aggressive so us hitting back

wouldnt' solve anything. I don't think children should be hit - no matter the circumstance. Hitting doesn't improve behavior.

shelly> >> I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without beating > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can "disipline" without fear > or pain?>> --- Original Message

--->> From: H <gideon_seventy@... > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11> To: autism-aspergers > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>> Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson > Lucas>> >> I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about> it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was> the turning point

in my life and the thing that made me aware that life> is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.>> I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two daughters,> each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after> they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the> reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he> was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in> the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.>> So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be> damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means> that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where they need> to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.> My experience is that the lack of that discipline will

almost certainly> guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.>> I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal> choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it> works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.>> > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result which > is to self regulate my own behaviors!> >> > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.>>

-- Will work for books.

June 7, 2011

This is an interesting subject that stirs up lots of emotion. I really

do wonder though why some people show such negative and destructive

emotions towards somebody else before they ever hear all the facts in

the situation. They just jump to their own conclusions and don't listen.

I don't see the good in that type of response.

Like with me and spanking which I call switching, spanking sounds more

to me like a person is using their hand and to me hands are used to

comfort and love and not to be used for discipline. anyway there is a

very small time in a child's life when you use this, starting when the

child is about 2 1/2 to maybe 5 when he learns some really important

lessons for his own good. And really it is the sound of your voice that

makes the child comply mostly, the switch is just there in case you

need back up. From a tiny little bit of pain he gets the idea, and

usually you never have to use it again, you just hold it while you

speak, he sees it, he hears your voice, then he complies.

I think, you are not going to like this probably, those of you against

this type of thing, it is something like when you train a dog. There are

different approaches. The one I took my dog to was the approach where

they taught you to give the dog a little pain to get him to comply. You

had a collar around his neck, and told him to heel, naturally he did not

know what you were talking about so you gave the collar a quick jerk

with your leash. It was the tone of your voice and the little bit of

pain that " trained " the dog. After he did what you asked you praised him

and gave him a treat.

Same with sitting and all sorts of things, first the voice, then the

back up, then obedience and the praise. This is true also of horses with

the bit in their mouth, jerk, ow, the horse does what you want then say

good horse good horse.

Now I understand there is a whole lot of people who do not believe in

this type of training for humans or animals, with them it is all

rewards and praises, etc. no pain at all. I say if it works for them

fine, if not try something else. The switch works quickly and is easy,

then give lots of love and praise for obedience. No mumbo jumbo like

they use in a lot of behavior modification programs.

Here's a funny story about this, my daughter in law loooooves dogs, she

really loves them and holds them on her lap and lets them jump all over

her, drives me nuts I keep my dogs outside. She thinks I am cruel to my

dogs, I say they are here to guard the house, not my babies. When they

come over they bring their dog in the house, it sits right at the feet

of all the people and gets in the way. They used to have a golden lab

for many years and he was a nice easy tempered dog, so no problems, they

treated him like their baby. But he got old and died, it was a terrible

experience.

Well then they got another dog from a rescue shelter drove 100 miles to

rescue this black dog. I did not like him the moment I saw him, his

eyes scared me. Come to find he was part pit bull and not easy going

like the other dog had been. My daughter in law was at her wits end with

this dog, almost went crazy trying to train this dog in the same way

she'd trained the other dog but it was not working. She was going to

send him back to the shelter...but then she took him to a professional

and you know what they did.

They got a collar with little spikes in it and when the dog does not

obey a command it gets a jerk, the spikes dig in and hurt the dog. Now

it is a very nice dog and obeys really nicely. Now if you think she

doesn't still love this dog you are wrong, she really dedicates her life

to her dog, I think it is crazy, they cannot do anything without

taking that dog. He goes everywhere he is part of the family. Mine just

stay in my back yard and the kids play with them when they come over.

They do not sit in my lap, did when they were puppies but that is it.

Aren't I horrible now comparing kids to dogs, well you could take it

that way, or simply look at the training aspects of it all, the

behavioral control, modification, which I hate what they do when they

fill kids with candy at school to get them to learn.

What is THAT all about I wonder!

Carolyn ;o) spending all day at this computer!

Kiara wrote:

>

> Hold techniques never worked for my daughter. It caused her to lash

> out violently, producing the opposite effect of what I was trying to

> achieve. There is no one style of parenting that fits all of our

> kids. We shouldn't come down on those parents who choose to spank. I

> know some families who do so very lovingly, never in anger, and they

> have loving and well behaved children. However, they don't have kids

> on the spectrum. Personally, I chose to spank for several years

> before I finally figured out it didn't work. My daughter is AS, ADD

> and ODD with sensory issues. She was WILD as a preschooler/early

> elementary kid. I didn't know about her dx at the time, and was

> reacting to accusations that I just wasn't strict enough. So I tried

> to address every infraction I saw, thinking consistency would be the

> key. She'd cry, run from me, and tell me spanking didn't help. I

> thought she was just trying to get out of it. But when we finally got

> the dx at age 8, I immediately stopped spanking. She's now 11, and I

> know that most people think I'm too lenient, but I believe in

> correction, not just punishment. So while she may lose a privilege

> for outright disobedience, or spend some quiet time in her room to

> cool off from a meltdown, most of the time when she's doing something

> wrong I just tell her she's doing it, why it's wrong, what she should

> do instead, etc. I don't know if this will make a difference in the

> long term, but it sure does keep the peace around here.

> Kiara

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *From:*

> *To:* " autism-aspergers "

> <autism-aspergers >

> *Sent:* Tue, June 7, 2011 7:31:42 AM

> *Subject:* Re: Never hit a child please!

>

> I think you made a good point. Your child has ASD, ADD, and anxiety.

> With any child on the spectrum, their bodies, Their systems are sick.

> Why are we spanking kids whom are sick?? The leaky gut.. Brain

> connection... These babies are sick.

>

> They need biomeds so their therapies can work along with any positive

> behavioral support system. Sorry... But, if more people knew how sick

> these ASD bodies are.... They would not be spanking them... ASD kids

> do not see, hear, interpret the world like we do. Instead, parents

> should get the lab work done (DAN docs) and begin the recovery process

> so therapy interventions (OT, ABA, speech, visual behavior therapies)

> can work.

>

> Spankings are wrong for these kids. Hold techniques to keep them safe

> to self and others is merely keeping the body still. The techniques

> are purposeful and needed for the tantrums and meltdowns. But....

> Spanking (which is hitting by any real description) is not okay.

>

> On Jun 6, 2011, at 10:03 PM, <slc.smith@...

> > wrote:

>

>>

>> There is no reason to ever 'hit' any child . Especially a child on

>> the spectrum!

>>

>> All you teach them is that violence is an acceptable behavior.

>>

>> Enough said

>>

>> My son has Aspergers, add & anxiety.

>>

>> Sent from my iPhone

>>

>> On Jun 6, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Kressman <jackressman@...

>> > wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> You are all sounding a bit nuts talking about switches...

>>> hitting...beating...v.s. spanking.

>>>

>>> Read: 1,2,3 Magic

>>> See Love & Logic

>>> Dare To Discipline

>>>

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> *From:* " srt12780@... "

>>> >

>>> *To:* autism-aspergers

>>> <mailto:autism-aspergers >

>>> *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 7:21:33 PM

>>> *Subject:* Re: threatening to kill, was Re:

>>> Grandson Lucas

>>>

>>> So if you spank them daily you must really " love " them a ton, right?

>>> Who are they going to turn to when they've learned to fear this

>>> painful punishment? Let us use some common knowledge. Would you

>>> confess your sins if you knew you had physical pain coming? We don't

>>> have to be a child psychologist to make sense of human nature.

>>>

>>> Does this physical pain punishment work with the elderly too or just

>>> children with no power at the mercy of a " loving " parent?

>>>

>>> --- Original Message ---

>>>

>>> >

>>> Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11

>>> To: autism-aspergers

>>> <mailto:autism-aspergers >

>>> Subject: Re : threatening to kill, was Re:

>>> Grandson Lucas

>>>

>>> People always jump to the conclusion that you " beat " the child if you

>>> believe in the switch method. When it is done in love you simply teach

>>> the child you are in authority over him and he has to mind you or he'll

>>> get a little pain. If you beat a child you are not showing love. I

>>> think

>>> people who teach their children to mind them are more loving than those

>>> who do not.

>>>

>>> Carolyn

>>>

>>> srt12780@... wrote:

>>> >

>>> > I'm not saying don't disipline. I'm saying doing it in with a switch

>>> > or spanking is not necessary. You can lay down the law without

>>> beating

>>> > a child. Isnt it a possibility that you can " disipline " without fear

>>> > or pain?

>>> >

>>> > --- Original Message ---

>>> >

>>> > From: H <gideon_seventy@...

>>>

>>> > <mailto:gideon_seventy%40hotmail.com>>

>>> > Sent: June 6, 2011 6/6/11

>>> > To: autism-aspergers

>>> <mailto:autism-aspergers >

>>> > <mailto:autism-aspergers%40yahoogroups.com>

>>> > Subject: Re: threatening to kill, was Re: Grandson

>>> > Lucas

>>> >

>>> > I was spanked, and at about 21 my dad and I had a heart to heart about

>>> > it and I thanked him. His discipline, including the rare spanking, was

>>> > the turning point in my life and the thing that made me aware that

>>> life

>>> > is not all a bed of roses, we have responsibility as well.

>>> >

>>> > I nev er said anything about that to my children, but my two

>>> daughters,

>>> > each and separately quite a lot of time apart, came to me years after

>>> > they were adults, and said that me and my solid discipline were the

>>> > reason they do so well today. My son was raised by his mother, and he

>>> > was not disciplined. In a few minutes I'm going to the jail website in

>>> > the town he lives in to see if he is back in jail.

>>> >

>>> > So I have to disagree that disciplining a child will cause them to be

>>> > damaged. I understand, and they understand, that raising a child means

>>> > that occasionally you have to prune them and direct them where

>>> they need

>>> > to grow. That means discipline, a plan, a process, and a LOT of love.

>>> > My experience is that the lack of that discipline will almost

>>> certainly

>>> > guarantee failure and a life of pain for the child.

>>> >

>>> > I'll not comment on anything further simply because it is personal

>>> > choice and my opinions are very strong on my choice because I know it

>>> > works/doesn't work based on my personal experience with my own kids.

>>> >

>>> > > I was a spanked child and it never obtained the desired result

>>> which

>>> > is to self regulate my own behaviors!

>>> > >

>>> > > You also permanently damage the child/ parent bond. Another problem

>>> > with spanking is that if home is not thier soft place they will at

>>> > some point look for this attention in more inappropriate ways.

>>> >

>>>

>

June 7, 2011

I just want to say that my family was very

much the “spare the rod” type of believers. Spanking never

made me avoid doing anything though, it just made me afraid of my parents and

detach myself from them as much as possible. Granted every child is

different and every parent’s way of doing the spanking is different but

as a whole I don’t think it’s a good idea. I find it a

struggle btw not to spank after growing up in a family where that was the norm.

From: autism-aspergers [mailto:autism-aspergers ] On Behalf Of Carolyn

Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:33

AM

To: autism-aspergers

Subject: Re:

Never hit a child please!

This is

an interesting subject that stirs up lots of emotion. I really