Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I am not sure if anyone as ever seen a specific numbers on this. But my thought is that there is no rule of thumb as to what percent one will front squat of their back squat. Remember these are two very different movements. Flexiblity, technique and strength in different muscle groups are just a few thing that I can think of that will affect the difference. My best squat is 500 and I know I could not front squat near 400. For me I think this would be due to the fact that I don't do a ton of front squatting and therefore my technique is not as good. But who knows I could be wrong? Todd E Hamer Poughkeepsie, NY Marist College > Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be > great. > > Kidawski > University of Hawai'i > Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I am not sure if anyone as ever seen a specific numbers on this. But my thought is that there is no rule of thumb as to what percent one will front squat of their back squat. Remember these are two very different movements. Flexiblity, technique and strength in different muscle groups are just a few thing that I can think of that will affect the difference. My best squat is 500 and I know I could not front squat near 400. For me I think this would be due to the fact that I don't do a ton of front squatting and therefore my technique is not as good. But who knows I could be wrong? Todd E Hamer Poughkeepsie, NY Marist College > Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be > great. > > Kidawski > University of Hawai'i > Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hi Chris! The figures you seek are typically highly individual and specific. For example and olympic lifters front squat is generally much higher percentage of his back squat. The power lifters if just the opposite. When looking at 1RM test results of our athletes who are not competitive lifters over the past twenty five years I have found the average percentage of front to back squat is 72%. This has a +/- variance of 10%. Best wishes! Dan Wathen, Youngstown (OH) State University In Supertraining , " ushouldblifting " <ushouldblifting@h...> wrote: > Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be > great. > > Kidawski > University of Hawai'i > Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I would think that this would be very hard to relate. Front squat technique is very difficult and requires great shoulder strength as well as leg strength. -Layne Norton Eckerd College St. Pete FL, USA --- ushouldblifting wrote: > Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front > squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front > squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any > thoughts would be > great. > > Kidawski > University of Hawai'i > Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hi I suggest checking out www.sport-expert.net. They have an exercise calculator which gives your classic clean & jerk, snatch, power clean, power snatch, power jerk, front and back squats, etc, etc, etc, etc percentages! Ben Ho Blk 27 New Upper Changi Road #14-686 Singapore 462027 Singapore ( " the one below Malaysia " ) > >Reply-To: Supertraining >To: Supertraining >Subject: Front Squat 1RM >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:37:26 -0000 > >Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off >your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be >80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be >great. > >Kidawski >University of Hawai'i >Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I personal do not know if there is a exact prectent, but from peronal experience I can only work up to 60% of my back squat max. It might also depend on what you max back squat currently is. I know that my response is really no help. Da Costa Lehighton Pa --- ushouldblifting wrote: > Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front > squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front > squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any > thoughts would be > great. > > Kidawski > University of Hawai'i > Honolulu, HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Kidawski wrote: <<Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be great.>> **** Realizing that this is anecdotal and may only pertain to me (although I'm not as unique as it may sound), I was a much better front squatter than back squatter. Once I got used to holding the bar in place and perfected form, I could do the same for both. Had I kept working at it, I might have actually had a better front squat. For some reason it was easier for me to front squat. Go figure. OTH, I'm sure there is, out there somewhere, an average percentage range for most people. Rosemary Vernon, Editor Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® A Not-For-Profit Foundation www.dolfzine.com Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... http://www.chuckietechie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 I have seen tables (unsure of a reference off hand) but I think the difference was around 20%. The difference would depend on who you were assessing. For example weightlifters can generally front squat 90% of there max back squat but this is because the postion of front squatting is very specfic to olympic lifts. Power lifters on the other hand usally have a much greater difference. The ones I have trained with can only front about 70%, this is in part because of the technique they use in the back squat where they lean forward to get more hip involvement. This is also evident in the difference in development in power and olympic lifters. Power lifters tend to have bigger glutes and olympic lifters bigger quads. Silverman Wellington, New Zealand Re: Front Squat 1RM > Kidawski wrote: > > <<Does anyone have a solid percentage for a front squat 1RM based off > your back squat 1RM? I always heard that your front squat should be > 80% of your max back squat. Is this right? Any thoughts would be > great.>> > > **** Realizing that this is anecdotal and may only pertain to me > (although I'm not as unique as it may sound), I was a much better > front squatter than back squatter. Once I got used to holding the > bar in place and perfected form, I could do the same for both. Had > I kept working at it, I might have actually had a better front > squat. For some reason it was easier for me to front squat. Go > figure. > > OTH, I'm sure there is, out there somewhere, an average percentage > range for most people. > > Rosemary Vernon, Editor > Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® > A Not-For-Profit Foundation > www.dolfzine.com > > Marina del Rey, CA > IronRoses@... > http://www.chuckietechie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Dear Group, First, there is no such thing as a cookie-cutter expression that fits all involved parties, in the sports training world at least. It is never a smart move to accept generalized exercise prescriptions, training percents, program protocols, and so forth. Training MUST be adhered to at an individual specific level! For those who are still in disbelief, flip back through the responses to this topic, alone, and note the enormous discrepancies between respondents. That, in and unto itself, should set this individualistic principle in stone- but I am sure, even at that, there will still be a few stragglers. Moreover, there exist ZERO practical applications to come about from throwing a blanket over this ratio of back squat versus front squat (or is it front squat versus back squat?). I can tell you this, without having another way to say it; If you think that adopting a perfect relationship between the two lifts would help your training efforts and/or coaching efforts then you are surely going about the training/management process entirely incorrectly! Now, since there has never and will never exist a reliable relationship between these two lifts, especially when striving to cover a large audience(or even more than one athlete!), then that knowledge, alone, can at least save you from putting into action whatever irrational concept that was attached to this initial request/inquiry. I don't intend, by any means, to come off as brash; but I think that it would serve the readers of this forum much better if we, the contributors, actually stuck to matters of pertinence. Saying, if it cannot be put into practice logically, reasonably, or via the substantiation of some greater and/or supporting cause then it would spare us all to avoid such needless discussions. That's my humble opinion, at least, agreed upon or not. By the way, I am not even sure who or what started this discussion point, nor do I care. In that light, I would also suggest that you refrain from acknowledging this source because that information is superfluous in terms of needed information. The point, and the reason for my response to this particular issue, was to hopefully help steer the topics of discussion to meaningful items so that we can all enhance the efficiency of our time spent contributing and/or reading these discussions. Evolution, Dietrich Buchenholz Grande, Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 In my humble opinion, I think it was a very meaningful and practical topic. If you have a large clientele of athletes, you need to set their maxes. Some of us write programs for a large number of athletes, and don't have time to max out on front squat. This was obviously a topic for coaches, and the gentleman was trying to draw opinion from other coaches. Barry, CSCS Shreveport, LA > Dear Group, > > First, there is no such thing as a cookie-cutter expression that fits > all involved parties, in the sports training world at least. It is > never a smart move to accept generalized exercise prescriptions, > training percents, program protocols, and so forth. Training MUST be > adhered to at an individual specific level! For those who are still > in disbelief, flip back through the responses to this topic, alone, > and note the enormous discrepancies between respondents. That, in > and unto itself, should set this individualistic principle in stone- > but I am sure, even at that, there will still be a few stragglers. > > Moreover, there exist ZERO practical applications to come about from > throwing a blanket over this ratio of back squat versus front squat > (or is it front squat versus back squat?). I can tell you this, > without having another way to say it; If you think that adopting a > perfect relationship between the two lifts would help your training > efforts and/or coaching efforts then you are surely going about the > training/management process entirely incorrectly! Now, since there > has never and will never exist a reliable relationship between these > two lifts, especially when striving to cover a large audience(or even > more than one athlete!), then that knowledge, alone, can at least > save you from putting into action whatever irrational concept that > was attached to this initial request/inquiry. > > I don't intend, by any means, to come off as brash; but I think that > it would serve the readers of this forum much better if we, the > contributors, actually stuck to matters of pertinence. Saying, if it > cannot be put into practice logically, reasonably, or via the > substantiation of some greater and/or supporting cause then it would > spare us all to avoid such needless discussions. > > That's my humble opinion, at least, agreed upon or not. > > By the way, I am not even sure who or what started this discussion > point, nor do I care. In that light, I would also suggest that you > refrain from acknowledging this source because that information is > superfluous in terms of needed information. The point, and the reason > for my response to this particular issue, was to hopefully help > steer the topics of discussion to meaningful items so that we can all > enhance the efficiency of our time spent contributing and/or reading > these discussions. > > Evolution, > > Dietrich Buchenholz > Grande, Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 , I respect your opinion, and thank you greatly for sharing your view. However, let's dissect your statements for reader appeal(of which might just result in a negligible -to-modest rant, we'll see): Barry: " If you have a large clientele of athletes, you need to set their maxes (Buchenholz Note: thanks for the gracious tip! But you mention nothing about if you have a small " clientele " of athletes- maxes or no maxes?). Some of us write programs for a large number of athletes, and don't have time to max out on front squat. " Buchenholz: Why do you feel the need to possess an integer value as representation for an individuals 1RM, for each movement on a list of exercises, besides comparison sake(if that even is necessary)- and why can't this be done during training, opposed to the set periods commonly referred to as " pre-testing " and " post-testing " ? Spare me the run-of-the-mill retort and hear me out for a moment. Surely if your purpose is to investigate neurological function then you know that it isn't the weight that is important BUT the manner to which it is lifted! And if you are up-to-speed with this modern day concept then you also surely understand that one movement may fulfill all that was needed in that regard(for your " grip " -of-athletes level of development(and competition), especially). Or, are you under the impression that a 1RM is necessary so that your exercise prescriptions can be carried out via mundane percent training practice? You remember the ancient drill, right, where the coach determined a 1RM so that he could attempt to prescribe " appropriate " weight for, say, a set of 8 repetitions(by the way, what is the popular opinion these days- 78%?)? Please tell me this isn't the case! If it is, then you need to re-read my post, especially the opening lines: " First, there is no such thing as a cookie-cutter expression that fits all involved parties, in the sports training world at least. It is never a smart move to accept generalized exercise prescriptions, training percents, program protocols, and so forth. Training MUST be adhered to at an individual specific level! " What about that don't you understand, dear sir- I would be more than happy to elaborate on any and all points if necessary. Barry " Continues " : " This was obviously a topic for coaches, and the gentleman was trying to draw opinion from other coaches. " Buchenholz " Clarifies " (i.e. brings Barry back in line): I have been involved in upper-level athletics for nearly 40 years, spending the last 25+ years as one of those, how do you say, " coaches " that you speak of. I currently own and operate a private training compound located on the outskirts of Hamburg, Germany. We host(house and train) live-in athletes(mostly) with a small population of short-stay athletes; of who have consisted of primarily Olympic competitors(hopefuls to medallists) and have recently began consulting more heavily on the global circuit. We have a select group of extensively trained personnel, each with a clearly defined role on the team, but I definitely have my fair share of responsibilities. That is, I probably don't deal with nearly as many athletes as yourself on a daily basis, nor do I have the restraints that you surely must have that keep you from performing your job optimally(i.e. time, space, etc), BUT I can assure you that if I didn't perform my coaching duties as I have evolved to do them to date then I would have ended up in a different career path altogether- I don't have the luxury that you have to go down to the local " high school " and seek a " strength coach " position, and my athletes definitely won't stick around just for fun. The schools would first need to adopt a budget for a " weight room " well before they would even consider bringing in a " specialist " . Now, I hate to leave anyone high and dry so I will offer some advice, if you wish to accept it. Read up as much as you can on Auto Regulatory Training (begin with Appropriation of Weight (i.e. " modern day percent training purposes " ) techniques if you can), and everything you can get your hands on relating to NeuroDynamics (not to be confused with the current catch-phrase " neuromuscular " ). You may then wish to explore Capacity of Work Functions(preferably beginning with Terminal understanding). At this point of understanding you will surely be red in the face over what you used to do, and will most likely be starved to learn about " intermediate " topics of practical sports training theory- such as sophisticated arrangement techniques integrated with perpetuating techniques that are, likewise, integrated with stuff like factorized arrangement principles and fatigue toleration methodics- all used in precision applications. This learning will be well beyond understanding how an athlete can miss his optimal volume inducement zone by a single repetition(and be able to track this and, more so, avoid it from ever happening), why 99% of the worlds athletes fail to progress beyond the bounds of stage 1(introductory) development, how to principilise manipulations based on the sensitivity effect, and, of course, what are the unavoidable distinctions between a training program and a training system. And then maybe you will be ready to take on facilitated parametronics techniques, neural readiness and association training(i.e. sporting results of any measure skyrocketed via cognitive-neuro-physiological regimes that will be sole future of training partaken by the world in as little as 100 years from now), etc, etc, etc. I'll even help you out one step further(but you are still going to have to do the actual work, friend) by giving you this quick list of individuals to resource, all of whom have taken the liberty of presenting some of their exceptional work at some point in their individual careers(note: a few of these go back to the 1950's): Donath, Lavtovka, Engler, Webber, Linnamo, Richter, Orth, Donath, Messer, , Garrett, Schmolinski, Reutemann, Buchenholz... Remember, a coach doesn't stand there holding a sheet of paper whilst barking out orders to masses of truly aspired athletes- that is an injustice to the athletes. As a matter of fact, a " coach " doesn't need a sheet! Think that one over for a while, and then when you think that you can define a coach please attach that reply with the results of your " Sports Training IQ Test " and post them on the forum for us all to enjoy(thank you kindly " coach " ). I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and degrees of understanding, for if it not then you would surely get-it and I wouldn't have to sit here and try to push you in the right direction. Furthermore, I wouldn't have to listen to you implicitly- cry about not understanding what I mean because you fear that you actually might have to evolve. In fact, only those who possess the ability to evolve will do so. The rest will " stutter " in place; lots of wasted effort with no final reward. Now, if you can stop being so sensitive then I will go back to trying to help those who actually want to progress. IMPORTANT NOTE: I apologize before hand to the group for bringing down the integrity of the forum by replying to this message, especially in the manner that I did. I won't lie to you and say that it didn't feel good to get that off my chest; but the fact remains: I should have just let it rot there. I'm sorry for wasting all of your precious time! (Selective)Evolution, Dietrich Buchenholz Grande, Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Hello Innosporttech, You are certainly an interesting individual. It does seem that you are somewhat defensive in your stance as an upper level coach. I do not doubt your abilities or experience. When I used the phrase, " This was obviously a topic for coaches, and the gentleman was trying to draw opinion from other coaches. " I was just saying that a large, low-budget clientele needs a point of reference. I did not mean that you do not train athletes. Sorry if my wording offended. I'll spend more time next time to be more clear. I will now clarify my previous point in that there are a lot of people who have responsibility for the performance training of large groups of athletes on low budgets with little help. In these situations a front squat max as a percentage of back squat is of practical use. I am very happy for you that you work with elite athletes exclusively and have time to individualize and auto-regulate them when you're not responding to website discussion boards all day. However, I think you could have more respect for those of us in the same field of endeavor who have not yet reached the pinnacle of sports performance training as you obviously have. Barry, CSCS Shreveport, LA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.