Re: OT-high Vitamin C dosages

[Guest guest]

I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C.

I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day.

Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much pain I started having!

I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin.

Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot.

Zora

Trinidad

gerald <grollason@...> wrote:

Thanks Kathy!

Re the Vit C: This is an old "hobby horse" of mine, so I try & avoid irritating the unconverted by not mentioning it too often!

-BUT......In my experience, Vit C is a truly remarkable substance, with almost endless uses, IF taken in the appropiate mega doses.

It is widely stated that bowel tolerance level,( ie the level at which stool softening starts to become evident,) is the optimum individual level & that this figure is commonly between 1 & 20 GRAMS a day for those in reasonable health who is not stressed. However, it is well known that in ill health this bowel tolerance level frequently goes up 10 times: & in the case of some illnesses, the figure can be higher than this!

(eg in mononucleosis -glandular fever-, the daily figure can be as high as 200 Grams plus).

-Presumably because of the MS, my own experience has been only slight softening at around 100 gm/day: I have never experienced an excessive "inconvenient" effect!

People get disappointing results with Vit C because they don`t take seriously this advice to take these very high levels!

When available to the body at this level of dose, it can be utilized therapeutically by the body in a

very different way.

Mobile Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

[Guest guest]

For men there is one potential downside to very high dosages of Vit C

and that is that it could contribute to a very painful and embarrassing

condition called Peyronie's Disease, due to the fact that Vit C can

increase collagen production.

Zora wrote:

> I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C.

> I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day.

> Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much

> pain I started having!

> I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just

> hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin.

>

> Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot.

> Zora

> Trinidad

[Guest guest]

What is that painful condition?

-------------- Original message -------------- > For men there is one potential downside to very high dosages of Vit C > and that is that it could contribute to a very painful and embarrassing > condition called Peyronie's Disease, due to the fact that Vit C can > increase collagen production. > > > > Zora wrote: > > > I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C. > > I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day. > > Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much > > pain I started having! > > I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just > > hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin. > > > > Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot. > > Zora > > Trinidad > > > > >

[Guest guest]

It is a distortion of the man's penis.

Regards,

Tom

Re: [low dose naltrexone] OT-high Vitamin C dosages

What is that painful condition?

-------------- Original message -------------- > For men there is one potential downside to very high dosages of Vit C > and that is that it could contribute to a very painful and embarrassing > condition called Peyronie's Disease, due to the fact that Vit C can > increase collagen production. > > > > Zora wrote: > > > I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C. > > I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day. > > Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much > > pain I started having! > > I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just > > hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin. > > > > Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot. > > Zora > > Trinidad > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Use Google!

nardi71@... wrote:

> What is that painful condition?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

What form do you take the Vit. C in- powder or tablets? I'm up to 40grams and am taking it in powder form but it is so sour, even in juice.

thanks,

Oregon, USA

gerald <grollason@...> wrote:

Re the Vit C: This is an old "hobby horse" of mine, so I try & avoid irritating the unconverted by not mentioning it too often!

-BUT......In my experience, Vit C is a truly remarkable substance, with almost endless uses, IF taken in the appropiate mega doses.

-Presumably because of the MS, my own experience has been only slight softening at around 100 gm/day: I have never experienced an excessive "inconvenient" effect!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

What form do you take the Vit. C in- powder or tablets? I'm up to 40grams and am taking it in powder form but it is so sour, even in juice.

thanks,

Oregon, USA

gerald <grollason@...> wrote:

Re the Vit C: This is an old "hobby horse" of mine, so I try & avoid irritating the unconverted by not mentioning it too often!

-BUT......In my experience, Vit C is a truly remarkable substance, with almost endless uses, IF taken in the appropiate mega doses.

-Presumably because of the MS, my own experience has been only slight softening at around 100 gm/day: I have never experienced an excessive "inconvenient" effect!

[Guest guest]

Caw Blimey!

Re: [low dose naltrexone] OT-high Vitamin C dosages

What is that painful condition?

-------------- Original message -------------- > For men there is one potential downside to very high dosages of Vit C > and that is that it could contribute to a very painful and embarrassing > condition called Peyronie's Disease, due to the fact that Vit C can > increase collagen production. > > > > Zora wrote: > > > I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C. > > I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day. > > Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much > > pain I started having! > > I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just > > hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin. > > > > Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot. > > Zora > > Trinidad > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Just did......Sacre Coeur!

Re: [low dose naltrexone] OT-high Vitamin C dosages

> Use Google!

>

> nardi71@... wrote:

>

>> What is that painful condition?

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

As my basic form of Vit.C, I generally take standard ascorbic acid in powdered form in water, this has the advantage that one is not consuming the high quantities of fillers & binders that would come from taking so many tablets: Disadvantages are, 1, no added bioflavenoids, which are often included in the tabletted forms, & 2, as you have observed, it can be very acidic to drink: This acidity I lessen considerably by adding bicarbonate of soda (I believe that this is the same as baking soda, sodium hydrogen carbonate in the US), about 1gm to a glass of say 7-10gms of Vit C in its powdered ascorbic acid form. (-I am grateful to the late Linus ing for this solution, mentioned in his book "How to Live Longer & Feel Better").

I also take a significant amount of VitC in a new patented form, -Ester C. This is described as being completely neutral ph (acid/alkali balance) so it is much easier on the stomach, further benefits are that it is assimilated more rapidly by the body, stays in the body twice as long & is twice as effective!........ In my experience, these claims seem to be true!

Unsurprisingly, it is frequently very much more expensive, fortunately however, I have found that Swansons, the US vitamin company, is usually selling EsterC, in tablet form, with bioflavenoids, at a very big discount, so that it actually ends up only about the same as normal UK prices are for the common ascorbic acid form! (-In terms of supplements, prices & availability, you are very fortunate in the US.)

If you are at all interested, it would be well worth checking the Swanson`s website: I have found that their mail order is quite quick, even to the UK.

The 40 gms a day would be quite an acidic challenge to the stomach if it`s in the form of ascorbic acid!

-Although I have read of people taking as much as 200gms a day, for years as I recall, personally I have only gone up over 100gm when under duress, (ie, with an abcess!).

-Interestingly, it has been reported by people accustomed to high doses, ( & I have found it to be true myself), that one actually develops a taste for how much C one needs, & remarkably, when ill & so needing very much more, even very concentrated solutions of C can taste surprisingly bland, & then as the healing crisis passes, the taste rapidly becomes more intense again! -I experienced this very clearly when using Vit C as the main factor in (successfully!) dealing with my abcess.

More typically my normal level of VitC is in the range of between 10 & 20 gm/ day. -It used to be 20, but now it`s nearer 10,........-I wonder if taking LDN has been a factor here? -Unfortunately, it doesn`t seem to be possible to say.

-May we all Smile & Be Happy! Living making an abundance of endorphins..............

(Important business, this being happy!)

Gerald

- Re: [low dose naltrexone] OT-high Vitamin C dosages

Hi,

What form do you take the Vit. C in- powder or tablets? I'm up to 40grams and am taking it in powder form but it is so sour, even in juice.

thanks,

Oregon, USA

gerald <grollason@...> wrote:

Re the Vit C: This is an old "hobby horse" of mine, so I try & avoid irritating the unconverted by not mentioning it too often!

-BUT......In my experience, Vit C is a truly remarkable substance, with almost endless uses, IF taken in the appropiate mega doses.

-Presumably because of the MS, my own experience has been only slight softening at around 100 gm/day: I have never experienced an excessive "inconvenient" effect!

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[Guest guest]

I apologize for taking up the groups time with this posting, but I wish to

clarify the situation!

I have refrained from comment on this apparently ludicrous posting of `s

as I was reluctant to waste my time checking out his allegation, however as

it was niggling away I have now eventually put " Peyronie`s Disease causes "

into Google:

I found a complete absence of any data to collaborate this alleged potential

causal connection with VitaminC.

-However, I did find one site that recommended HIGH DOSE antioxidants as a

TREATMENT for Peyronie`s Disease: (Vitamin C is, of course, an

antioxidant!....)

On the many sites that came up on Google, the cause of this condition was

posited variously as " unknown " , " uncertain " , proximate cause " physical

trauma " to the member, " genetic predisposition " , " vascular (ie. pertaining

to blood vessels) cause " .

I am puzzled as to why , whose postings are normally perfectly

reasonable should suddenly make such an ill considered & irresponsible post

which seems to have nothing to back it up & , in addition to wasting our

time, is liable to discourage some from experiencing the very extensive

benefits of mega Vit C doses.

I am endeavouring to " smile through my irritation " , but I wish to point out

that I do put significant time & effort into some of my posts & I find it

dismaying to see their potential usefulness compromised by such vacuous

unsubstantiated allegations!

You don`t work for a big pharmaceutical company or something like that, do

you ?

(-That might account for your message!!!)

May we all relax, breath deeply & smile through our

irritation!.................................................

.............................................................................

...................................................................

Gerald

Re: [low dose naltrexone] OT-high Vitamin C dosages

> For men there is one potential downside to very high dosages of Vit C

> and that is that it could contribute to a very painful and embarrassing

> condition called Peyronie's Disease, due to the fact that Vit C can

> increase collagen production.

>

>

>

> Zora wrote:

>

> > I am glad that somebody else is taking such high dosages of Vit. C.

> > I am taking up to 12 000 mg a day.

> > Recently I stopped it for few days and I could not believe how much

> > pain I started having!

> > I find it is so beneficial to my health I cannot do without it, I just

> > hope that I will be able to get costant supply of this vitamin.

> >

> > Thank you for this email, it helped me a lot.

> > Zora

> > Trinidad

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Apologies to the group from me too but I feel I deserve a right of reply

to Gerald's unwarranted attack on me. Please just delete it if not

interested.

Gerald, Gerald, Gerald.......... You really do go on the attack to

protect your beliefs, don't you? :-( Especially given your

statement (true I believe) that my postings are usually perfectly

reasonable, yet you still went on all out attack without really knowing

your facts. The reasonable thing would have been to email me personally

for more information, but instead you took the approach of attacking me

publicly. Such an attack will have people questioning YOUR approach and

I shall refrain (I hope!) from the great inclination to attack in kind.

Firstly, let me say that you will find absolutely nobody who believes in

antioxidants more than I! On a number of occasions I have directed

people here and in other groups to Steve Shackel's excellent site on

antioxidants, which was my saviour. See

http://home.goulburn.net.au/~shack/ (it started off many years ago

concentrating on antioxidants but has since expanded to cover other

factors as well).

That belief is a result of the fact that for the first five years I

deteriorated quite rapidly for PLS, going from functioning normally to

using a walking frame for short distances on even ground and wheelchair

for anything else, plus my speech reached the stage where only my family

could understand me (by far the most frustrating of all my

disabilities). I had taken some antioxidants sporadically during those

years but after reading Steve's then fledgling website I decided that

antioxidants were definitely promising, so decided to go all out and

ordered a range of antioxidants (a number of which I had never heard of

until reading his site) from the US as some were not available here and

had them flown over to Australia.

Within six months of beginning my deterioration stopped (remember, quite

rapid for the five years prior) and in the SIX years since then has

plateaued! That to me is an amazing turnaround and I am sure it is due

to all the antioxidants. The only thing which has very slowly

deteriorated is what remained of my speech, but I believe that is mainly

due to lack of use - a Catch 22 situation. The LDN I have been taking

for over a year now has improved some of my functionality so that for

instance I believe I am actually now walking better than I was six years

ago. Therefore your ridiculous accusation that I work for a

pharmaceutical company is so far off the mark as to be laughable (except

I am not laughing, yet).

Your researching ability also clearly falls short of the mark. You

looked up " Peyronie's Disease causes " , but I never claimed high dose

vitamin C causes Peyronie's, I specifically said it COULD contribute.

What basis do I have for saying that? If your research was better you

would have found:

1. Many references to the fact that the plaques in Peyronie's consist

of collagen which I why I also mentioned collagen in my post. Did you

include that in any of your searches or 'research' or were you being

unscientific and just trying to discredit me personally because I dared

suggest that there could be a downside to such high doses of Vitamin C?

2. Also many references to the fact that one of the effects of Vitamin

C is to boost collagen production.

Even a primary school kid can put two and two together and work out that

if something sets in motion localised collagen production (injury

response) as happens probably to all men at some stage in their sex

lives (hopefully I don't need to spell it out for you - look at what

sets off Peyronie's) then taking high dose Vitamin C can lead to over

production of collagen in the injured area and therefore Peyronie's plaques.

All I was trying to do was point out that for men there could be a

downside to high dose Vitamin C but unfortunately your harsh attack on

me has led me to having to do something I didn't want to have to do in

front of the whole world...........

Many of us on here are more aware of our bodies and how they react to

things we put into them than most people are. About two years after my

diagnosis my doctor (a very forward thinking lady) suggested I use high

doses of Ester C (as you said in one of your normal reasonable postings,

a powerful form of Vitamin C). I don't know what triggered it initially

but a month or two later I developed Peyronie's Disease - note carefully

please Gerald that I did NOT say Vitamin C was the trigger.

I can't remember why now because I wasn't aware of the connection then,

but I discontinued the Ester C for a few months and the pain and plaque

gradually abated. Then I began high dose Ester C again and the pain and

other problems came back even worse, so eventually I wondered about the

connection and stopped taking it again. Again, the pain gradually went

away (although not the other problems completely) and has never returned

because I have never taken high doses of it again.

As with many people here I know my own body and I KNOW that the high

dose Vitamin C contributed to my Peyronie's. I hope you feel good now

about having forced me into admitting my embarrassing condition to the

world at large, but your personal attack didn't seem to leave me much

choice.

I still take Vitamin C as part of the antioxidant regimen which has

prevented me from deteriorating further all of these years, but now use

a wide range of antioxidants in relatively low doses which I believe

work synergistically together, rather than taken high doses of any one

particular thing. Heck, even water in high doses has a negative effect

on the body!!

gerald wrote:

> I apologize for taking up the groups time with this posting, but I wish to

> clarify the situation!

>

> I have refrained from comment on this apparently ludicrous posting of

> `s

> as I was reluctant to waste my time checking out his allegation,

> however as

> it was niggling away I have now eventually put " Peyronie`s Disease causes "

> into Google:

> I found a complete absence of any data to collaborate this alleged

> potential

> causal connection with VitaminC.

> -However, I did find one site that recommended HIGH DOSE antioxidants as a

> TREATMENT for Peyronie`s Disease: (Vitamin C is, of course, an

> antioxidant!....)

> On the many sites that came up on Google, the cause of this condition was

> posited variously as " unknown " , " uncertain " , proximate cause " physical

> trauma " to the member, " genetic predisposition " , " vascular (ie. pertaining

> to blood vessels) cause " .

>

> I am puzzled as to why , whose postings are normally perfectly

> reasonable should suddenly make such an ill considered & irresponsible

> post

> which seems to have nothing to back it up & , in addition to wasting our

> time, is liable to discourage some from experiencing the very extensive

> benefits of mega Vit C doses.

>

> I am endeavouring to " smile through my irritation " , but I wish to

> point out

> that I do put significant time & effort into some of my posts & I find it

> dismaying to see their potential usefulness compromised by such vacuous

> unsubstantiated allegations!

>

> You don`t work for a big pharmaceutical company or something like that, do

> you ?

> (-That might account for your message!!!)

>

> May we all relax, breath deeply & smile through our

> irritation!.................................................

> ............................................................................

> ..................................................................

> Gerald

>

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for your explanatory reply.

I apologize for the harsh tone of my message & congratulate you on your

restraint in this respect!

It would have been wiser for me to have couched my response in gentler

terms.

I did not e-mail you privately as your initial message was not private.

I did feel irritated at having to take time to investigate your initially

unsupported assertions regarding Peyronie's.My research was sincere but

limited because I have other calls on my time making it impossible for me to

spend days investigating something which is after all not likely to be of

significance to many of us: (-Unlike the potential value of vitamin C &

other antioxidants.........)

Although I now have the embarrassment of having to live with the public

evidence of my harsh words, at least my message seems to have prompted you

into giving a fuller, more rounded explanation of your views.{It is perhaps

a pity that you didn`t see fit do this in the first place.}

Specifically, I am referring to your elaborations on this important subject

of antioxidants, which gives some sense of their widely beneficial

potential. I imagine that this may be of significant value to

many for whom, unfortunately, this subject seems to have remained pretty

much a closed book so far.

Thank you for now expressing your views in this larger, more understandable

context/perspective!

(Conscious that there will those who are likely to have already had quite

enough of this

topic, regretfully I am trimming off our previous messages.)

Best Wishes,

Gerald

--

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