Vitamin/Mineral Supplementation Dangers

[Guest guest]

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3007937.stm

-----------

People who take large doses of certain vitamins and minerals risk

permanently damaging their health, a government watchdog has warned.

Experts from the UK's Food Standards Agency say high levels of minerals

like beta-carotene and zinc over a long period may have irreversible

harmful effects.

They have also proposed a ban on chromium picolinate, which is found in

some diet supplements, amid fears it can cause cancer.

In addition, they reiterated warnings that high doses of vitamin C,

calcium and iron can harm health but said long-term damage can be avoided

if people stop taking them.

The findings follow a major review of 31 vitamins and minerals by the

agency's expert group on vitamins and minerals.

Safe limits

It concluded that most vitamins and minerals are safe if they are taken in

doses that don't exceed recommended limits.

However, it warned that five substances may cause permanent damage if they

are taken in large quantities over a long period.

These are:

# beta-carotene - linked to an increased risk of lung cancer in smokers

and people exposed to asbestos.

# manganese - linked to muscle and nerve disorders in older people

# nicotinic acid - linked to cell damage

# phosphorus - may damage organs and tissue

# zinc - may damage the immune system

It also advised people against consuming more than 10mg per day of vitamin

B6 unless they are acting on medical advice.

High intakes over a long period can lead to a loss of feeling in the arms

and legs, the experts said.

In addition the group warned against taking more than 1000mg of vitamin C,

1500mg of calcium or 17mg of iron per day.

In high doses, these can all cause stomach pains and diarrhoea. However,

the symptoms should disappear once people stop taking these supplements.

Cancer concern

The group concluded that people who consume no more than 10mg of chromium

picolinate per day are unlikely to suffer any problems.

However, the FSA said it has consulted supplement manufacturers on

proposals to ban it in Britain. Recent studies suggest it may damage DNA

and increase the risks of cancer.

The FAS board is expected to back proposals urging manufacturers to reduce

the dose of potentially harmful vitamins and minerals in some supplements

or place warnings on packets at a meeting later on Thursday.

Sir Krebs, chair of the FSA, said the report followed a thorough

review of scientific studies.

" While in most cases you can get all the nutrients you need from a

balanced diet, many people choose to take supplements.

" But taking some high dose supplements over a long period of time can be

harmful.

" We are using an extremely thorough independent expert review of the

scientific evidence on the safety of vitamins and minerals as the basis

for new advice to help consumers make informed choices. "

The supplements industry welcomed the report.

Dr Ann , an advisor for the industry-funded Health Supplements

Information Service, said: " In addition to encouraging a healthy diet in

order to achieve good nutritional balance, supplements can play an

important role in maintaining health where people are not getting all they

need from food alone. "

--------------

Iain Styles

Birmingham, UK

[Guest guest]

> From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3007937.stm

>

> -----------

> People who take large doses of certain vitamins and minerals risk

> permanently damaging their health, a government watchdog has warned.

>

> Experts from the UK's Food Standards Agency say high levels of minerals

> like beta-carotene and zinc over a long period may have irreversible

> harmful effects.

>

> They have also proposed a ban on chromium picolinate, which is found in

> some diet supplements, amid fears it can cause cancer.

>

> In addition, they reiterated warnings that high doses of vitamin C,

> calcium and iron can harm health but said long-term damage can be avoided

> if people stop taking them.

### What is considered a " high dosage? " I often take up to 10 grams

of Vitamin C a day with absolutely no negative effects, but many

positive ones. Also, " too much " vitamin C only gives a mild upset

stomach for a day or two and higher dosages are quickly adapted to.

You can get " too much " iron and calcium however, but is this really a

problem for most people? Population studies indicate that women in

particular are often deficient in iron and/or calcium.

> The findings follow a major review of 31 vitamins and minerals by

the

> agency's expert group on vitamins and minerals.

### Is the original document available?

> Safe limits

>

> It concluded that most vitamins and minerals are safe if they are taken in

> doses that don't exceed recommended limits.

### Who's recommended limits? If they're talking about RDA

guidelines, no thanks I'll figure it out myself.

> However, it warned that five substances may cause permanent damage if they

> are taken in large quantities over a long period.

>

> These are:

>

> # beta-carotene - linked to an increased risk of lung cancer in smokers

> and people exposed to asbestos.

### Really? Again, I would like to see the original report if it is

available.

>

> # manganese - linked to muscle and nerve disorders in older people

>

> # nicotinic acid - linked to cell damage

>

> # phosphorus - may damage organs and tissue

>

> # zinc - may damage the immune system

>

> It also advised people against consuming more than 10mg per day of vitamin

> B6 unless they are acting on medical advice.

>

> High intakes over a long period can lead to a loss of feeling in the arms

> and legs, the experts said.

>

> In addition the group warned against taking more than 1000mg of vitamin C,

> 1500mg of calcium or 17mg of iron per day.

>

> In high doses, these can all cause stomach pains and diarrhoea. However,

> the symptoms should disappear once people stop taking these supplements.

### Again, in the case of vitamin C, gradual build up of dosage over

the course of a few weeks can allow someone to take higher amounts

with no negative and many positive benefits.

> Sir Krebs, chair of the FSA, said the report followed a

thorough

> review of scientific studies.

>

> " While in most cases you can get all the nutrients you need from a

> balanced diet, many people choose to take supplements.

### This sounds like a cut and paste from a registered Dieticians how

to manual. It's just not so, there is good research suggesting that

supplementation of various substances can be beneficial, and even

more empirical evidence. What world class athlete doesn't supplement

with something?

> " But taking some high dose supplements over a long period of time can be

> harmful.

### This is a poorly worded statement that needs to be qualified.

> " We are using an extremely thorough independent expert review of the

> scientific evidence on the safety of vitamins and minerals as the basis

> for new advice to help consumers make informed choices. "

### Again, I would love to have a link or reference if it's available.

> The supplements industry welcomed the report.

>

> Dr Ann , an advisor for the industry-funded Health Supplements

> Information Service, said: " In addition to encouraging a healthy diet in

> order to achieve good nutritional balance, supplements can play an

> important role in maintaining health where people are not getting all they

> need from food alone. "

### Now isn't that much more sensible.

Todd

Hattiesburg, MS

[Guest guest]

>

>

> ### What is considered a " high dosage? "

In general, anything that exceeds the UL.

>I often take up to 10 grams

> of Vitamin C a day with absolutely no negative effects, but many

> positive ones.

What are the positive benefits of megadoses of vitamin C?

>Also, " too much " vitamin C only gives a mild upset

> stomach for a day or two and higher dosages are quickly adapted to.

This isn't true. Diarrhea has been reported in studies where greater than 3

g/d has been administered, and it is the occurrence of gastrointenstinal

problems at high doses that resulted in the current UL being established.

> You can get " too much " iron and calcium however, but is this really a

> problem for most people? Population studies indicate that women in

> particular are often deficient in iron and/or calcium.

What studies?

> ### Who's recommended limits? If they're talking about RDA

> guidelines, no thanks I'll figure it out myself.

So are you going to perform toxicology studies on yourself, complete with

blood chemistries and urinary analysis, to determine your own UL's? The

current UL's are based on solid scientific data from research studies.

> > # beta-carotene - linked to an increased risk of lung cancer in smokers

> > and people exposed to asbestos.

>

> ### Really? Again, I would like to see the original report if it is

> available.

You can look at the current DRI report discussing these two studies here:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309069351/html/345.html#pagetop

> ### Again, in the case of vitamin C, gradual build up of dosage over

> the course of a few weeks can allow someone to take higher amounts

> with no negative and many positive benefits.

What are these positive benefits?

> ### This sounds like a cut and paste from a registered Dieticians how

> to manual. It's just not so, there is good research suggesting that

> supplementation of various substances can be beneficial, and even

> more empirical evidence.

Supplementation with which substances are beneficial? Where is this

research?

Actually, most research indicates that athletes on well-balanced diets are

not deficient in any micronutrients (see my Vitamin Visions article in the

July 2002 issue of Pure Power for a review of available research in this

topic).

>What world class athlete doesn't supplement

> with something?

You are committing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum...if a lot of people

believe or do something, it must be true. Just because a lot of athletes

supplement with something doesn't mean that the supplementation is

beneficial.

Krieger

Graduate Assistant, Nutrition

University of Florida

Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength

Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine

http://www.purepowermag.com

[Guest guest]

>

>

> ### What is considered a " high dosage? "

In general, anything that exceeds the UL.

>I often take up to 10 grams

> of Vitamin C a day with absolutely no negative effects, but many

> positive ones.

What are the positive benefits of megadoses of vitamin C?

>Also, " too much " vitamin C only gives a mild upset

> stomach for a day or two and higher dosages are quickly adapted to.

This isn't true. Diarrhea has been reported in studies where greater than 3

g/d has been administered, and it is the occurrence of gastrointenstinal

problems at high doses that resulted in the current UL being established.

> You can get " too much " iron and calcium however, but is this really a

> problem for most people? Population studies indicate that women in

> particular are often deficient in iron and/or calcium.

What studies?

> ### Who's recommended limits? If they're talking about RDA

> guidelines, no thanks I'll figure it out myself.

So are you going to perform toxicology studies on yourself, complete with

blood chemistries and urinary analysis, to determine your own UL's? The

current UL's are based on solid scientific data from research studies.

> > # beta-carotene - linked to an increased risk of lung cancer in smokers

> > and people exposed to asbestos.

>

> ### Really? Again, I would like to see the original report if it is

> available.

You can look at the current DRI report discussing these two studies here:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309069351/html/345.html#pagetop

> ### Again, in the case of vitamin C, gradual build up of dosage over

> the course of a few weeks can allow someone to take higher amounts

> with no negative and many positive benefits.

What are these positive benefits?

> ### This sounds like a cut and paste from a registered Dieticians how

> to manual. It's just not so, there is good research suggesting that

> supplementation of various substances can be beneficial, and even

> more empirical evidence.

Supplementation with which substances are beneficial? Where is this

research?

Actually, most research indicates that athletes on well-balanced diets are

not deficient in any micronutrients (see my Vitamin Visions article in the

July 2002 issue of Pure Power for a review of available research in this

topic).

>What world class athlete doesn't supplement

> with something?

You are committing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum...if a lot of people

believe or do something, it must be true. Just because a lot of athletes

supplement with something doesn't mean that the supplementation is

beneficial.

Krieger

Graduate Assistant, Nutrition

University of Florida

Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength

Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine

http://www.purepowermag.com

[Guest guest]

Dear -

I have read your Pure Power articles with great interest!

I have one request with questions following - could you possibly put up a

link here on the list that gives a good UL table for the vitamins and

minerals? The rest are comments/opinions for your response and others on

the list.

Also, does the UL give any guidance for size variance in people, or other

possibly relevant variables? The reasons I'd always heard for the RDA's

lack of true relevance were that it was the amount to stave off disease, not

to enhance performance or for optimum health... also didn't they base RDA on

a 55 kg person? Is the UL based on size at least, a recommendation based on

bodyweight? For example, protein consumption for larger athletes vs smaller

ones...of similar sport and training? The temptation as a 90+ kg woman is

to theorize that perhaps I need more of some nutrients in diet and

supplementation than those under the 55 kg standard? Was the UL formulated

on that same 55 kg model?

I have long wondered at the potential for overdose due to the higher usages

of MRP's and other protein products which now include substantial additives

of vitamins and minerals. Some persons tell me they are taking up to 6

additional supplemented items a day, PLUS vitamins...the toxicity of some

vitamins and minerals is clearly not being made clear to those in the health

and fitness training!

Even the nutritional books I have are not in agreement! They admit that

athletes are a " special population " along with pregnant women, children, and

the elderly, but give NO guidance to the athlete as to what elements of

nutrition should be most carefully adjusted for performance gains.

And I don't think " general population " studies are truly applicable to the

competing athlete, because if we ate or trained like them, we would not BE

competing athletes....!

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

Krieger wrote in response to Todd:

> >

> >

> > ### What is considered a " high dosage? "

>

> In general, anything that exceeds the UL.

>

>

> > ### Who's recommended limits? If they're talking about RDA

> > guidelines, no thanks I'll figure it out myself.

>

> So are you going to perform toxicology studies on yourself, complete with

> blood chemistries and urinary analysis, to determine your own UL's? The

> current UL's are based on solid scientific data from research studies.

>

>

> Actually, most research indicates that athletes on well-balanced diets are

> not deficient in any micronutrients (see my Vitamin Visions article in the

> July 2002 issue of Pure Power for a review of available research in this

> topic).

>

> >What world class athlete doesn't supplement

> > with something?

>

> You are committing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum...if a lot of

people

> believe or do something, it must be true. Just because a lot of athletes

> supplement with something doesn't mean that the supplementation is

> beneficial.

>

> Krieger

> Graduate Assistant, Nutrition

> University of Florida

> Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning

> http://www.wsu.edu/~strength

> Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine

> http://www.purepowermag.com

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>

Dear -

I have read your Pure Power articles with great interest!

<<<<<<<<<<<<

Thank you. I am glad that you like them. Dan has given me a wonderful

opportunity to be part of a great magazine.

>>>>>>>>>

I have one request with questions following - could you possibly put up a

link here on the list that gives a good UL table for the vitamins and

minerals? The rest are comments/opinions for your response and others on

the list.

<<<<<<<<<<<

Here are tables for the new DRI's, including the RDA's and UL's:

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/iom/iomhome.nsf/WFiles/Webtableminerals/$f

ile/Webtableminerals.pdf

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/iom/iomhome.nsf/WFiles/webtablevitamins/$f

ile/webtablevitamins.pdf

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/iom/iomhome.nsf/WFiles/FNBMacronutrientTab

le/$file/FNBMacronutrientTable.pdf

>>>>>>>>>>

Also, does the UL give any guidance for size variance in people, or other

possibly relevant variables? The reasons I'd always heard for the RDA's

lack of true relevance were that it was the amount to stave off disease, not

to enhance performance or for optimum health... also didn't they base RDA on

a 55 kg person? Is the UL based on size at least, a recommendation based on

bodyweight?

<<<<<<<<<<

The RDA and UL are two different things. Straight from the tables I

provided you:

" RDAs are set to meet the needs of almost all (97-98%) individuals in a

group. The AI....is believed to cover the needs of all individuals in the

group, but lack of data prevent being able to specify with confidence the

percentage of individuals covered by this intake. "

" UL = The maximum level of daily nutrient intake that is likely to pose no

risk of adverse effects. Unless otherwise specified, the UL represents

total intake from food, water, and supplements. "

The reference weight for adult women is 61 kg, and the reference weight for

adult men is 76 kg. These reference weights are used when setting the EAR

(Estimated Average Requirement). The EAR is the daily intake value that is

estimated to meet the requirements, as defined by the specified indicator or

criterion of adequacy, in half of the apparently healthy individuals in a

life stage or gender group. The EAR is then used to establish the RDA. In

general, the RDA is set at the EAR, plus two standard deviations. This two

standard deviations would then automatically include most people of heavier

body weights, since now 98% of everyone in a life stage or gender group

would be included.

For a nice summary of how the DRI's are established, go to:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309072794/html/29.html

>>>>>>>>

For example, protein consumption for larger athletes vs smaller

ones...of similar sport and training?

<<<<<<<<

Remember that protein recommendations are listed on a per kilogram basis,

which would then automatically adjust for different body weights. However,

this is one area where I think the DRI committee members were not thorough

enough in their literature review. In the DRI report on protein, they do

talk about athletes, but then state that there isn't enough evidence to

recommend beyond 0.8 grams per kilogram. However, their literature review

is incomplete...they neglected a number of existing studies that quite

convincingly indicate that athletes need more protein.

>>>>>>

The temptation as a 90+ kg woman is

to theorize that perhaps I need more of some nutrients in diet and

supplementation than those under the 55 kg standard?

<<<<<<<<

As a 90+ kg woman, you actually may need slightly more than the RDA for some

nutrients, since you are most likely beyond the 2 standard deviations on

which the RDA is set.

>>>>>>>

Was the UL formulated

on that same 55 kg model?

<<<<<<<

No. The method for establishing the UL is quite different. For a

description of how the UL is established, go to:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309072794/html/35.html#pagetop

Krieger

Graduate Assistant, Nutrition

University of Florida

Webmaster, WSU Strength and Conditioning

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength

Science Editor, Pure Power Magazine

http://www.purepowermag.com