Re: more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

[Guest guest]

karen

It was mentioned on the LDN website that people with MS like me who already have spasticity issues should not take anymore than 3mg.

I aso heard that the 1000 mg of magnesium would help the spasticity.

Can anyone back me up here?

I also take Baclofen as prescribed by my Neuro.

-

[Guest guest]

> I orginally got my prescription last October from Dr. for 1.5mg ldn.

> I then had to call bihari to get my next prescription. I tried to go up to

> 3.0mg but got soo tight I would just fall over. Therefore bihari and I

> decided to try 2.0mg. Well I am stiffer even on that! I am even stiffer

> than I would be normally on 1.5mg.

>

> I just don't get it. I will take this for the rest of my life. I have had

> major improvements but not in walking. I also started glyconutrients about

> a month ago with good results.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for the increased spasticity? I read that

> someone wrote that milk thistle would work. Why is that? Is it because the

> liver is being helped?

>

> I just don't understand why I cannot tolerate more.

>

> karen

==============

Pharmacist Larry Freiders suspects the stiffness from LDN is caused by the

liver. Milk Thistle supports the liver.

[Guest guest]

> I orginally got my prescription last October from Dr. for 1.5mg ldn.

> I then had to call bihari to get my next prescription. I tried to go up to

> 3.0mg but got soo tight I would just fall over. Therefore bihari and I

> decided to try 2.0mg. Well I am stiffer even on that! I am even stiffer

> than I would be normally on 1.5mg.

>

> I just don't get it. I will take this for the rest of my life. I have had

> major improvements but not in walking. I also started glyconutrients about

> a month ago with good results.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions for the increased spasticity? I read that

> someone wrote that milk thistle would work. Why is that? Is it because the

> liver is being helped?

>

> I just don't understand why I cannot tolerate more.

>

> karen

==============

Pharmacist Larry Freiders suspects the stiffness from LDN is caused by the

liver. Milk Thistle supports the liver.

[Guest guest]

, why don't you try taking 1500mgs of magnesium with the LDN. It helps your muscles relax. It might not help but can't hurt to try.

[low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I orginally got my prescription last October from Dr. for 1.5mg ldn. I then had to call bihari to get my next prescription. I tried to go up to 3.0mg but got soo tight I would just fall over. Therefore bihari and I decided to try 2.0mg. Well I am stiffer even on that! I am even stiffer than I would be normally on 1.5mg.I just don't get it. I will take this for the rest of my life. I have had major improvements but not in walking. I also started glyconutrients about a month ago with good results.Does anyone have any suggestions for the increased spasticity? I read that someone wrote that milk thistle would work. Why is that? Is it because the liver is being helped?I just don't understand why I cannot tolerate more.karen

[Guest guest]

If Larry is correct and spasticity comes from a toxic liver then maybe a colon cleanse would help , lots of water with lime in it, dandelion tea, and alpha lipoic acid. These are all great liver cleansers and the alpha lipoic is given to Hep C patients and it usually improves liver function tests within 6 weeks at a 600mgxday dose. Sometimes when an organ is extremely toxic rotating herbs like milk thistle, etc. is a good way to shock the body into responding. Hope this helps you . Best Wishes, Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] Re: more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

> I orginally got my prescription last October from Dr. for 1.5mg ldn. > I then had to call bihari to get my next prescription. I tried to go up to > 3.0mg but got soo tight I would just fall over. Therefore bihari and I > decided to try 2.0mg. Well I am stiffer even on that! I am even stiffer > than I would be normally on 1.5mg.> > I just don't get it. I will take this for the rest of my life. I have had > major improvements but not in walking. I also started glyconutrients about > a month ago with good results.> > Does anyone have any suggestions for the increased spasticity? I read that > someone wrote that milk thistle would work. Why is that? Is it because the > liver is being helped?> > I just don't understand why I cannot tolerate more.> > karen==============Pharmacist Larry Freiders suspects the stiffness from LDN is caused by the liver. Milk Thistle supports the liver.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/2005 7:09:05 PM Central Daylight Time, kcapozza@... writes:

Does anyone have any suggestions for the increased spasticity? I read that someone wrote that milk thistle would work. Why is that? Is it because the liver is being helped?

I just don't understand why I cannot tolerate more.

karen

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

,

I would try the Milk Thistle. I, myself, need to. Here's a possibility: The stiffness may have happened regardless. It has in my case, but I was extremely stiff to begin with. I, too, have the 'concrete leg syndrome.' It's so frustrating to try to figure these things out on our own! I won't give up LDN because I figure the alternative is truly being bedridden and death. I don't fear death, I'm just not looking forward to the process of dying!

Marcie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/2005 10:25:48 PM Central Daylight Time, mykittypaws@... writes:

, why don't you try taking 1500mgs of magnesium with the LDN. It helps your muscles relax. It might not help but can't hurt to try.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I coudn't do 1500mg Magnesium for sure! 250mg causes too much bowel problems for me! With these stiff legs , no ability to stand unaided, and time not usually on my side...oh my! This could lead to disaster! If one has no toiletry problems, this might work. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils!

Marcie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/2005 10:25:48 PM Central Daylight Time, mykittypaws@... writes:

, why don't you try taking 1500mgs of magnesium with the LDN. It helps your muscles relax. It might not help but can't hurt to try.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I coudn't do 1500mg Magnesium for sure! 250mg causes too much bowel problems for me! With these stiff legs , no ability to stand unaided, and time not usually on my side...oh my! This could lead to disaster! If one has no toiletry problems, this might work. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils!

Marcie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/7/2005 10:00:03 AM Central Daylight Time, larrygc@... writes:

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Constipation IS the lesser of two evils, in my opinion!! Magnesium draws fluids into the intestines to prevent this, hence Milk of Magnesia! If one can get to the restroom in time and manage, magnesium should do the trick! Same here as far as spacticity goes...didn't seem to help, but maybe it would if I could tolerate/manage it!

There is a ratio of mag to calcium, but I forget what it is since I can't do it anyway!

Oh, how I long for the good ole days!!!

Marcie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/7/2005 10:22:23 AM Central Daylight Time, radbower@... writes:

Did the magnesium help resolve your constipation issues though?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Speaking for myself..."Oh yes!" Again, my opinion, there can be worse things than constipation!

Marcie

[Guest guest]

Have you tried Baclofen? I am normally very stiff and the first week that I took LDN I became really stiff so my doctor upped my dose of Baclofen from 80 mg a day to 100 a day. Worked for me.

[Guest guest]

Oh now I understand. I hope you get this resolved and just know in your heart there is answer. Blessings

Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

In a message dated 4/6/2005 10:25:48 PM Central Daylight Time, mykittypaws@... writes:

, why don't you try taking 1500mgs of magnesium with the LDN. It helps your muscles relax. It might not help but can't hurt to try.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I coudn't do 1500mg Magnesium for sure! 250mg causes too much bowel problems for me! With these stiff legs , no ability to stand unaided, and time not usually on my side...oh my! This could lead to disaster! If one has no toiletry problems, this might work. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils! Marcie

[Guest guest]

Did the magnesium help resolve your constipation issues though?

From: LarryGC [mailto:larrygc@...] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:21 AMlow dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

karen

It was mentioned on the LDN website that people with MS like me who already have spasticity issues should not take anymore than 3mg.

I aso heard that the 1000 mg of magnesium would help the spasticity.

Can anyone back me up here?

I also take Baclofen as prescribed by my Neuro.

[Guest guest]

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

karen

It was mentioned on the LDN website that people with MS like me who already have spasticity issues should not take anymore than 3mg.

I aso heard that the 1000 mg of magnesium would help the spasticity.

Can anyone back me up here?

I also take Baclofen as prescribed by my Neuro.

[Guest guest]

I'm still experimenting. I seemed to get good results with the bottle I had, VItasmart I think. They were 250 MG Mag and 42 Calc. When I was running out someone picked me up 250s that have no Mag, they start melting right away, hard to swallow before they start melting. I was taking 2 of them with a coral calcium OR a calc/mag/d which gave more calc than the original ones I had, and not the same results. But who knows... it's just so unpredictable.

But, yeah, sometimes it works... too good.

My local chiropractor told me to do this back in January when I saw her for the first time since 3 months before I started LDN. I was going to my other 2 chiros since just before I started LDN.. going on 3 years on 4/17.

I haven't noticed any difference in spasticity though... can't tell in the winter/cold weather time... nothing seems to help that reaction.. same as it's been since the winter/cold season prior to starting LDN. I think it may not be an MS SX. Oh well... can't have everything

RE: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

Did the magnesium help resolve your constipation issues though?

From: LarryGC [mailto:larrygc@...] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:21 AMlow dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

[Guest guest]

Larry, mag needs calcium and potassium. If not you can throw all your electrolytes out of balance which can lead to kidney dysfunction or a multitude of other problems.Make sure you take magnesium orotate or gycine and not magnesium oxide. It is not utilized in the body the same way. Ideally mag-cal ratio should be 2:1.with calcium being the highest dosage. Kathy

RE: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

Did the magnesium help resolve your constipation issues though?

From: LarryGC [mailto:larrygc@...] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:21 AMlow dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

[Guest guest]

Larry, I subscribed to Pagelers newsletter for several years. He is a big advocate of the Swank Diet. Anyway, he spoke of an amino acid l-threonine that helped spacticity . I never really heard alot of feedback but some said they were helped by this. Maybe it would be worth checking out? As far as the cal/mag thing goes, too much calcium and not enough magnesium causes constipation. On that note- Goodnight to all. Kathy

RE: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

Did the magnesium help resolve your constipation issues though?

From: LarryGC [mailto:larrygc@...] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:21 AMlow dose naltrexone Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I was told to take 400-800 MG of mag for constipation issues... given how I feel with 750, I couldn't imagine what 1000 or 1500 of mag would do.

Mag needs some calcium to get absorbed, right?

I haven't noticed a change in spasticity with Mag... just a whole lotta movement elsewhere

[Guest guest]

I noticed someone mentioned on here that Milk Thistle can help reduce

stiffness. That may explain why as a male on 4.5mg LDN per day I have

no stiffness issues over and above the normal stiffness caused by my

PLS. In fact if anything I feel that after an initial slight increase

in stiffness for a week or so after starting on 3.0 mg and then again in

going to 4.5 mg I am probably less stiff now the before starting LDN. I

have been taking Milk Thistle to help my liver for probably five years

now, LDN for about 14 months.

Tried Baclofen for a while about 10 years ago for stiffness caused by

PLS and hated it - made me too zonked to do any work.

usaispy@... wrote:

> Have you tried Baclofen? I am normally very stiff and the first week

> that I took LDN I became really stiff so my doctor upped my dose of

> Baclofen from 80 mg a day to 100 a day. Worked for me.

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

,

How much Milk Thistle do you recommend?

-

In a message dated 4/9/05 2:11:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, covo@... writes:

I noticed someone mentioned on here that Milk Thistle can help reduce stiffness.

[Guest guest]

Why would Milk Thistle reduce stiffness?

D

From: C

[mailto:covo@...]

Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005

3:18 AM

To:

low dose naltrexone

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone]

more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

I noticed someone mentioned on here that Milk Thistle can help reduce

stiffness. That may explain why as a male on

4.5mg LDN per day I have

no stiffness issues over and above the normal

stiffness caused by my

PLS. In fact if anything I feel that after

an initial slight increase

in stiffness for a week or so after starting on

3.0 mg and then again in

going to 4.5 mg I am probably less stiff now the

before starting LDN. I

have been taking Milk Thistle to help my liver for

probably five years

now, LDN for about 14 months.

Tried Baclofen for a while about 10 years ago for

stiffness caused by

PLS and hated it - made me too zonked to do any

work.

usaispy@... wrote:

> Have you tried Baclofen? I am normally

very stiff and the first week

> that I took LDN I became really stiff so my

doctor upped my dose of

> Baclofen from 80 mg a day to 100 a day.

Worked for me.

--

.

,-._|\

Covington

/ Oz

\

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/10/2005 10:21:46 AM Central Daylight Time, covo@... writes:

Australia as I believe it is made by an Australian company (Nature's Sunshine).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is a Nature's Sunshine in the States too. It's in Utah.

Marcie

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

Wow 700mg Milk Thistle.

As of today, Sunday, I have added

Silymarin Milk Thistle Extract - for spasticity

2 capsules of 150mg in the morning and 2 at night = 600mg

Lecithin

1 soft gel 1200mg

http://www.1001herbs.com/lecithin/

Lecithin (Nervous, Circulatory) is a fatlike substance called a phospholipid. It is produced daily by the liver if the diet is adequate. It is needed by every cell in the body and is a key building block of cell membranes; without it, they would harden. Lecithin protects cells from oxidation and largely comprises the protective sheaths surrounding the brain. It is composed mostly of B vitamins, phosphoric acid, choline, linoleic acid and inositol. Although it is a fatty substance, it is also a fat emulsifier. Hence, it supports the circulatory system.

I already take

1000mg of fishoil - Omega 3

500mg of flaxseed oil - Omega 3 - Hmm maybe too much Omega

1 big multivitamin from Costco

1 baclofen breakfast, lunch, evening (this may stop) - not sure of its anti spasticity ability

1000mg of Magnesium from oxide - UhOh - oxide

(I need to replace it with 2:1 Calcium/Magnesium non oxide) - Bones & Brains

http://www.vrp.com/art/588.asp

Magnesium also helps regulate nerve cell function. It must be present in adequate amounts in the synaptic gap between nerve cells to control the rate of neuron firing. (3) When synaptic magnesium levels are too low, nerves fire too easily from even minor stimuli. For example, noises will sound excessively loud, lights will seem too bright, emotional reactions will be exaggerated, and the brain will be too stimulated to sleep. In extreme magnesium-synaptic deficiency, epilepsy--a sort of whole-brain shotgun-blast excessive neuronal firing--may result.

3mg of LDN, mine is in liquid suspension until next month.

and I havn'ts stopped taking Copaxone, at least not yet.

And I will probably add CA AEP soon

http://www.vrp.com/art/254.asp

Of course I am considering some other items as well, but one step/expense at a time.

-

[Guest guest]

,

For 5 years I have taken 4 Liv-Pro tablets daily. From memory each

contains 700mg of Milk Thistle but will have to leave checking that

until tomorrow now as too hard to get out to kitchen (now 1.30am here

and everyone else is asleep). If 700mg is not correct I will post the

right amount tomorrow but I don't think Liv-Pro is available outside

Australia as I believe it is made by an Australian company (Nature's

Sunshine).

I found a description on a health food shop website: " *Liv-Pro is a

concentrated liver tonic made from herb fluid extracts. This formula

combines St 's Thistle and Dandelion root with B-carotene, inositol,

choline, vitamin C and iron. These herbs, vitamins and minerals help

protect the liver from the assault of viruses, medications and pollutants. "

*

Saberkat7@... wrote:

> ,

>

> How much Milk Thistle do you recommend?

>

> -

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

Whoever raised that claimed that helping the liver would reduce

stiffness. I have no idea if that is correct or not. All I was saying

is that if it was it would explain my comparative lack of stiffness

Dale Olsen wrote:

> Why would Milk Thistle reduce stiffness? D

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> *From:* C [mailto:covo@...]

> *Sent:* Saturday, April 09, 2005 3:18 AM

> *To:* low dose naltrexone

> *Subject:* Re: [low dose naltrexone] more stiffness at 2.0mg from irmats

>

>

>

> I noticed someone mentioned on here that Milk Thistle can help reduce

> stiffness. That may explain why as a male on 4.5mg LDN per day I have

> no stiffness issues over and above the normal stiffness caused by my

> PLS. In fact if anything I feel that after an initial slight increase

> in stiffness for a week or so after starting on 3.0 mg and then again in

> going to 4.5 mg I am probably less stiff now the before starting LDN. I

> have been taking Milk Thistle to help my liver for probably five years

> now, LDN for about 14 months.

>

> Tried Baclofen for a while about 10 years ago for stiffness caused by

> PLS and hated it - made me too zonked to do any work.

>

>

>

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

[Guest guest]

Aletha,

I agree with you about needing one MS vitamin that does the whole works. I think taking

them all can be very trying. We need to lobby for this!