Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 I went to Club Industry East in NYC this past weekend. It's been at least 10 years since I last attended. I had a good time checking out the latest lines of all the major manufacturers. The ones that intrigued me the most were made by Strive. The cams of these machines are adjustable. One is able to set the machines in 3 different positions to utilize 3 difference resistance curves. Leg extension in the first position was similar to most leg ext. machines. When I moved the cam into the second position I felt most of the resistance in the upper third of the machine's range of motion. Finally, the third position resulted in the majority of resistance being in the beginning third of the range of motion. Does anyone have experience using these machines? Is strive more effective than the traditional models of Cybex or Hammer? Is the multi-positional cam good science or just another gimmick of the fitness industry? Tom Rankin CSCS Whippany NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 I have some Strive equipment in my training facility. I would not necessarily say that Strive is " better " than other manufacturers but it's certainly a super variation to conventional machines. The *circular* movements (i.e. Leg Ext., biceps curl) are optimal exercises with Strive's design. The more linear exercises (i.e. press) are not as effective. What's great about the Strive Leg Ext., Leg Curl, and Leg Press is that I have been able to train athletes " around " injuries in that I can emphasize the load to target the ROM that can be performed without irritating the infirmity. From there, you can reintroduce loading to the weaker part of the ROM gradually. This is not possible with conventional machinery. Vince McConnell Fairhope, AL ETFitness Enterprises www.etfitness.com Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® A Not-For-Profit Foundation www.dolfzine.com ----- Original Message ----- > I went to Club Industry East in NYC this past weekend. It's been at > least 10 years since I last attended. I had a good time checking out > the latest lines of all the major manufacturers. The ones that > intrigued me the most were made by Strive. > > The cams of these machines are adjustable. One is able to set the > machines in 3 different positions to utilize 3 difference resistance > curves. Leg extension in the first position was similar to most leg > ext. machines. When I moved the cam into the second position I felt > most of the resistance in the upper third of the machine's range of > motion. Finally, the third position resulted in the majority of > resistance being in the beginning third of the range of motion. > > Does anyone have experience using these machines? Is strive more > effective than the traditional models of Cybex or Hammer? Is the > multi-positional cam good science or just another gimmick of the > fitness industry? > > Tom Rankin CSCS > Whippany NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 This equipment is not actually new. We have had it in a local Gold's for many years. Since I don't use machines, I can't really give you my opinion, but they don't get much use. Micah West Naples, FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Gold's/Venice was given the entire line by the manufacturer about a year ago. I've used it a little bit but have not found it as comfortable as some other equipment. I don't notice it is nearly as popular as the old Hammer plate loaded stuff, nor is it as smooth as the new Nautilus or Cybex line. Maybe there is a bit too much adjusting for most people; some times the cams are a bit difficult to reach. The leg press is almost impossible to get into although I think the lat pulldown and chest press are okay. OTH, it's an interesting concept and it certainly does show you up depending on where the load is placed. Possibly it's just a little " too different. " The idea on which it is based sounds like a good one except that people who are interested in training various positions of a lift (top/middle/bottom of a squat for instance) aren't usually using machines. Also the people who use machines (often training for fitness/health) aren't all that concerned about whether they are weaker at one point or the other. Rosemary Vernon, Editor Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® A Not-For-Profit Foundation www.dolfzine.com Marina del Rey, CA IronRoses@... http://www.chuckietechie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 > I went to Club Industry East in NYC this past weekend. <SNIP> The ones that > intrigued me the most were made by Strive. > > The cams of these machines are adjustable. One is able to set the > machines in 3 different positions to utilize 3 difference resistance > curves. Leg extension in the first position was similar to most leg > ext. machines. When I moved the cam into the second position I felt > most of the resistance in the upper third of the machine's range of > motion.... Ouch! That bothers my knees just thinking about it. High resistance at the fully extended position on a leg extension creates extremely high shear force at the knee joint. Burkhardt Irvine, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 Micah West writes: << his equipment is not actually new. We have had it in a local Gold's for many years. Since I don't use machines, I can't really give you my opinion, but they don't get much use. Telle-- The original? intent was target loading as portrayed by Vince McConnell who wrote-- " What's great about the Strive Leg Ext. Leg Curl, and Leg Press is that I have been able to train athletes " around " injuries in that I can emphasize the load to target the ROM that can be performed without irritating the infirmity. From there, you can reintroduce loading to the weaker part of the ROM gradually. This is not possible with conventional machinery " . Tom Rankin writes-- Does anyone have experience using these machines? Is strive more effective than the traditional models of Cybex or Hammer? Is the multi-positional cam good science or just another gimmick of the fitness industry? Telle-- See Vince's reply above for possibly effective rehab. What's not realized is the machines, incorporating 3 weight loaded pegs, are amenable to target " drop " ! loading (Mel would love that!). In other words by loading all 3 pegs with numerous smaller plates -- the plates can be removed one at a time during the set commensurate with idiomatic fatigue characteristics IDIOMATIC FATIGUE CHARACTERISTICS During any given movement -- or series of said movements, strength fails differentially/asymmetrically. That is strength fails (fatigue accumulates) at a much greater rate during/at? the shortened muscle length phase(s). Over the course of the exercise, depending on individual, movement and loading -- strength is lost/fatigue continues to accumulate until only the longest muscle length position is capable of expressing tension. SO!! -- One method to keep as much tension on the muscle as it fatigues (TENSION FATIGUE INDEX -- my original? belief as the most effective loading) is to decrease resistance during the shortened muscle positions at a much greater rate, in contrast to longest muscle position lengths -- until by the end of the exercise bout there is resistance, and slight movement, only, during the longest muscle length phase(s)! One can " kinda-sorta " do this with Strive, much more effectively than Hammer or Cybex. Hammer has the " best " (?) movement patterns and in general the " worst " (?) resistance patterns!? Its a bit confusing and takes some trial and error. Following is a " general " Strive example. On the Strive leg extension machine load all 3 pegs with 10 lb plates so that the total load is distributed equally, e.g., 3, 10 lb plates on each peg. Hopefully you can execute about 6 reps with this load. So, initiate the reps and when failure occurs strip one plate from the bottom pin -- which decreases resistance at the " top " of the movement. Perform 3? more reps to failure, and remove another plate from the bottom pin. etc. until only 2-3 plates are left on the top pin! When I had access to Strive, I found my mechanical changes methods much more effective than running around " stripping " plates of the machine. Those I trained couldn't remember the sequence on their " alone " training days. The linear exercises (those incorporaing more than one joint -- with no joint in general correspondence with any machine axis) e.g., bench press, leg press, squat? *can* be loaded somewhat(?) similar to chain and band loading. In most instances free weights are more effective -- see Louie for powerlifting loading or Telle Dolfzine.com articles for hypertrophy examples. ps Here is a " giant set " anyone can experiment with -- obviously with equipment availability. Warmup A. Load Hammer bench press machine to 5-7 full reps weight! B. Load Cybex bench machine (hopefully one with overhead resistance arm axis), to 8-10 full reps weight. C. Load top weight peg of Strive bench press machine with ?? weight (trial and error here). Exercise sequence 1. Perform Hammer bench presses to non psychotic failure, 2. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Cybex bench machine, 3. Perform Cybex bench presses to non psychotic failure, 2. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Cybex bench machine, 3. Perform Cybex bench presses to non psychotic failure, Jerry Telle Lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 OOOPPPSS PREVIOUS " STRIVE EQUIPMENT " early transmission Micah West writes: << his equipment is not actually new. We have had it in a local Gold's for many years. Since I don't use machines, I can't really give you my opinion, but they don't get much use. Telle-- The original? intent was target loading as portrayed by Vince McConnell who wrote-- " What's great about the Strive Leg Ext. Leg Curl, and Leg Press is that I have been able to train athletes " around " injuries in that I can emphasize the load to target the ROM that can be performed without irritating the infirmity. From there, you can reintroduce loading to the weaker part of the ROM gradually. This is not possible with conventional machinery " . Tom Rankin writes-- Does anyone have experience using these machines? Is strive more effective than the traditional models of Cybex or Hammer? Is the multi-positional cam good science or just another gimmick of the fitness industry? Telle-- See Vinces reply above for possibly effective rehab. What's not realized is the machines, incorporating 3 weight loaded pegs, are amenable to target " drop " ! loading(Mel would love that!). In other words by loading all 3 pegs with numerous smaller plates -- the plates can be removed one at a time during the set commensurate with idiomatic fatigue characteristics IDIOMATIC FATIGUE CHARACTERISTICS During any given movement -- or series of said movements, strength fails differentially/asymmetrically. That is strength fails (fatigue accumulates) at a much greater rate during/at? the shortened muscle length phase(s). Over the course of the exercise, depending on individual, movement and loading -- strength is lost/fatigue continues to accumulate until only the longest muscle length position is capable of expressing tension. SO!! -- One method to keep as much tension on the muscle as it fatigues (TENSION FATIGUE INDEX -- my original? belief as the most effective loading) is to decrease resistance during the shortened muscle positions at a much greater rate, in contrast to longest muscle position lengths -- until by the end of the exercise bout there is resistance, and slight movement, only, during the longest muscle length phase(s)! One can " kinda-sorta " do this with Strive, much more effectively than hammer or Cybex. Hammer has the " best " (?) movement patterns and in general the " worst " (?) resistance patterns!? Its a bit confusing and takes some trial and error. Following is a " general " Strive example. On the Strive leg extension machine load all 3 pegs with 10 lb plates so that the total load is distributed equally, e.g., 3, 10 lb plates on each peg. Hopefully you can execute about 6 reps with this load. So, initiate the reps and when failure occurs strip one plate from the bottom pin -- which decreases resistance at the " top " of the movement. Perform 3? more reps to failure, and remove another plate from the bottom pin. etc. until only 2-3 plates are left on the top pin! When I had access to Strive I found my mechanical changes methods much more effective than running around " stripping " plates of the machine. Those I trained couldn't remember the sequence on their " alone " training days. The linear exercises (those incorporaing more than one joint -- with no joint in common axis correspondence, with any machine axis)e.g., bench press, leg press, squat(?), *can* be loaded somewhat(?) similar to chain and band loading. In most instances free weights are more effective -- see Louie for powerlifting loading or Telle Dolfzine.com articles for hypertrophy examples. ps Here is a simple " giant set " anyone can experiment with -- obviously with equipment availability. Do 1-3 days in a row only!! (Rosemary!! ;-} ) Warmup Preperation; A. Load hammer bench press machine to 5-7 full reps weight! B. Load Cybex bench machine (hopefully one with overhead resistance arm axis), to 8-10 full reps weight. C. Load top weight peg of Strive bench press machine with ?? weight (trial and error here). Exercise sequence 1. Perform hammer bench presses to non psychotic failure, 2. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Cybex bench machine, 3. Perform Cybex bench presses to non psychotic failure, 4. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Strive bench machine, 5. Perform Strive bench presses to non psychotic failure! Rest Repeat? Repeat? Jerry Telle Lakewood CO USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 This is an excellent description, by Jerry, in how *best* to use Strive equipment. The " drop sets " protocol that is described here *is* most effective with Strive. Again, like any unconventional machinery, it has it's unique benefits but never *replaces* other modalities more common. Just a " tool " that makes some things more practical---and progressive. I maintain that I have been able to train certain individuals on say, the Strive Leg Press, who otherwise would *have* to go through both a limited ROM and severely compromised load---or not train at all. Vince McConnell Fairhope, AL ET Fitness Enterprises www.etfitness.com Dolfzine On-Line Fitness, Inc.® A Not-For-Profit Foundation www.dolfzine.com ----- Original Message ----- > Telle-- > The original? intent was target loading as portrayed by Vince McConnell who > wrote-- > " What's great about the Strive Leg Ext. Leg Curl, and Leg Press is that I > have been able to train athletes " around " injuries in that I can emphasize > the load to target the ROM that can be performed without irritating the > infirmity. From there, you can reintroduce loading to the weaker part of the > ROM gradually. This is not possible with conventional machinery " . > > Tom Rankin writes-- Does anyone have experience using these machines? Is > strive more effective than the traditional models of Cybex or Hammer? Is the > multi-positional cam good science or just another gimmick of the fitness > industry? > > Telle-- > > See Vince's reply above for possibly effective rehab. > > What's not realized is the machines, incorporating 3 weight loaded pegs, are > amenable to target " drop " ! loading (Mel would love that!). In other words by > loading all 3 pegs with numerous smaller plates -- the plates can be removed > one at a time during the set commensurate with idiomatic fatigue > characteristics > > IDIOMATIC FATIGUE CHARACTERISTICS > > During any given movement -- or series of said movements, strength fails > differentially/asymmetrically. That is strength fails (fatigue accumulates) at > a much greater rate during/at? the shortened muscle length phase(s). Over the > course of the exercise, depending on individual, movement and loading -- > strength is lost/fatigue continues to accumulate until only the longest > muscle length position is capable of expressing tension. > > SO!! -- One method to keep as much tension on the muscle as it fatigues > (TENSION FATIGUE INDEX -- my original? belief as the most effective loading) > is to decrease resistance during the shortened muscle positions at a much > greater rate, in contrast to longest muscle position lengths -- until by the > end of the exercise bout there is resistance, and slight movement, only, > during the longest muscle length phase(s)! > > One can " kinda-sorta " do this with Strive, much more effectively than Hammer > or Cybex. Hammer has the " best " (?) movement patterns and in general the > " worst " (?) resistance patterns!? Its a bit confusing and takes some trial and > error. Following is a " general " Strive example. > > On the Strive leg extension machine load all 3 pegs with 10 lb plates so that > the total load is distributed equally, e.g., 3, 10 lb plates on each peg. > Hopefully you can execute about 6 reps with this load. So, initiate the reps > and when failure occurs strip one plate from the bottom pin -- which > decreases resistance at the " top " of the movement. Perform 3? more reps to > failure, and remove another plate from the bottom pin. etc. until only 2-3 > plates are left on the top pin! > > When I had access to Strive, I found my mechanical changes methods much more > effective than running around " stripping " plates of the machine. Those I > trained couldn't remember the sequence on their " alone " training days. > > The linear exercises (those incorporaing more than one joint -- with no joint > in general correspondence with any machine axis) e.g., bench press, leg press, > squat? *can* be loaded somewhat(?) similar to chain and band loading. In most > instances free weights are more effective -- see Louie for > powerlifting loading or Telle Dolfzine.com articles for hypertrophy > examples. > > ps Here is a " giant set " anyone can experiment with -- obviously with > equipment availability. > > Warmup > > A. Load Hammer bench press machine to 5-7 full reps weight! > B. Load Cybex bench machine (hopefully one with overhead resistance arm > axis), to 8-10 full reps weight. > C. Load top weight peg of Strive bench press machine with ?? weight (trial > and error here). > > Exercise sequence > 1. Perform Hammer bench presses to non psychotic failure, > 2. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Cybex bench machine, > 3. Perform Cybex bench presses to non psychotic failure, > 2. Take 10-15 secs to walk to Cybex bench machine, > 3. Perform Cybex bench presses to non psychotic failure, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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