Re: This whole CL thing..

[Guest guest]

Hi,

CL isn't the end of the world like most goat people think. You have to have open draining abcesses to infect the herd or in the case of kids you have to have draining abcesses in the udder. I have had pos goats and goats that have never had one so I just treat on a case by case basis and will cull something that is chronic but I don't freak out and lose my mind over it.

I think it's all about the strength of the immune system in each goat. Just like with anything else, such as, why can you feed 20 goats of the same breed, sex and age the very same thing and you will still get some that become deficient in copper, thiamine , etc., while others do not? Same with worms..why do some goats have a hard time with worms and some don't in the same herd? It's interesting and I get a laugh out of talking with people that just think CL is the end of the world and yet they still buy from the sale yard, bring goats in that have never been tested, etc.

I do vaccinate for CL with the autogenous vaccine because I don't like treating it but if one should pop up, which hasn't happened in almost 5 years, I'll deal with it.

[Guest guest]

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To be rebuilt with probiotics but more importantly and vital Raw milk. Only with this combination has my health notably improved since.Scientific tests suggest that nanosilver products, including 10 ppm Silver Sol technology products, actually render non-infective all pathogens with which they come into contact in the laboratory. In my clinical and personal experience, it appears that the same thing can happen inside people and animals. 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Until now, I have been reluctant to suggest an answer to that question because I did not have scientific documentation (although my suspicion was that nanotechnology silver preparations were the best and safest bet we had). I use these products for myself and would not think of being without them. But until I had data on what happened when the Avian Flu virus was exposed to silver nanoproducts, I was reluctant to speculate about it. Now with the studies I have recently reviewed, I have concluded that there is reasonable scientifica substantiation for me to tell you that our best individual and collective solution is a natural one: silver nano solutions. Here's the Solution, Silver Solution www.nutronix.com/naturalsolutions The FDA does not want you to have access to silver. It is safe, easy to use and has a long storage life. That means that expensive treatments may not be necessary and the FDA, ever obedient to the wishes of Big Pharma, is looking for ways to end your access to silver nutrition that works. So I urge you to make sure that you lay in a stock of these wonderful products. (This is the same solution that I used with great results when it appeared that I had contracted malaria a couple years ago, while traveling on Foundation business -- I had no symptoms after 1.5 hours and took a 1/2 teaspoon in a little water for 2 days after that). We of course, note that the Food and Drug Administration has not evaluated any of these statements and we do not intend to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease with nanosilver.To make sure that you have this remarkable silver product in your home please follow these instructions:1. Go to www.nutronix/naturalsolutions2. Click on the "Products" tab at the top of the page3. Scroll down the left hand index to "Immune Support"4. Purchase enough for yourself and your family for the foreseeable future.5. Consider giving it as gifts to everyone on your list.This is vitally important information and I urge you to make sure you have a supply NOW. Given that the Powers that Be insist that a pandemic is "inevitable", and perhaps even imminent, "now" means literally NOW! www.nutronix/naturalsolutions Should such products as colloidal silver disappear as planned note that Sota Instruments manufactures equipment to make your own ionized colloidal silver solution, and other very useful products. You can write them at info@... for details, and visit their website at www.sotainstruments.com to see their line of products.I have no connection or commercial interest in either mentioned sites except as aware that the information and what they provide will be helpful to health and wellness.>> OK group.. I figured I'd go digging here, cause if you bring up CL on> a regular goat group, your lambasted, cussed and black listed. But I> have some questions, that I NEED answered. How much of this CL> "scare" is based on fact ?? Yes goats get this, most likely they have> for centuries. strange,, they have not all died out. They have not> become extinct. How is it, that many goats live with CL goats, and> never become infected?? If it's passed through the milk as it is> claimed, How is it that kids do not get it from their dams ?? When> we first started goats, back 12 years ago, we had a doe, we got from> auction, pop lump after lump, (she lived about 9 years after we got> her) And none of her offspring that are still living,, have CL, (yes> we have been testing for the last 5 years since we show)....None of> her herdmates, 5 which we still own, have ever tested postive, yet,> they lived in the same enclosure for 5 years. OK OK some would just> argue that I'm Lucky or stupid.. whichever...> Reguardless, I sometimes wonder how much is fact, and how much of> it is imagined,, to scare us.. just like all the lies and scare> tactics the gov't uses to keep us from drinking our raw milk and> eating the good raw foods... THis is something I want each and every> goat person, on this list to think about,, you dont' have to answer,,> but really think about this,.... How many of you keep CL or CAE pos.> goats.. isolate them when you see a lump, in a special CL pen. when> they heal up, put em back with the herd, and disinfect the crap out of> the pen?? Now I dont' really want anyone to get on here and reply,> and tell me I'm a bad person, and I should Cull(nice word for Kill)> all my goats that pop lumps cause that is idiotic in my book..> > But I really think we as goat people, need to separate fact, from> Fiction. > Oh and yes, I read that whole thing on sheep and shearing etc in> Austraila. It was interesting,, But really there was NO medical,> actual documented cases of CL. It was suggested. Just like we all> will get e-coli, and die from raw milk... I am not saying we should> all just forgo our efforts, We should definatly be frugal in our> efforts to keep our goats from getting CL or CAE or anything. But do> not automatically go phsyco and go on a killing spree cause a goat> pops a lump... And don't make someone, who has a CL pos goat feel like> the only avenue they have is culling... I personally know a woman who> is 87 years old, has had goats for ,,who knows how long, has had pos.> CL goats she has cleaned and healed up .. and this woman does not have> CL, cancer or anything,, and then there are people who NEVER come in> contact with goats,, and are dying of lymphatic cancer,,, > > I am looking forward to reading others feelings on this,, you can> email me privatly if you like,, I really dont' need to be lambasted,,> I can go on the goat groups for that... LOL okee,, ,, the goat> lady in PA>

[Guest guest]

My original large herd had no abscesses. They were not common at that time (1970's early '80's). Then I boarded them out while were went on vacation. Infection was introduced to the herd. Dealt with it by lancing and isolation. Out of goats for a few years, got into some again; thought I was CL savvy. Young goats I knew had been clean, 7 or 8 developed CL abscesses - the source, an older Nubian who had a small one in the curve of her thigh, hidden by the feathers. Vaccination , isolation, culling. I kept one beautiful doe who had had an external one as I wanted kids from her..then it went to her lungs. It's an awful thing to have in the herd. Isolation recommendations were to lance, flush and isolate until healed and the scab has dropped off. I used to do the clean goat chores first, then the isolation does, being very careful of buckets, gloves, boots. Dont know if it's true, but I was told that the infective organism can live on surfaces for two years. It's impossible to scrub all the crevices in hayracks and partitions. If you dont have it, dont buy it in. If you have it, isolate and cull and when you've achieved a clean herd, keep it that way. JMHO..marion

To: RawDairy From: greeneyedgoatgal@...Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:29:11 +0000Subject: This whole CL thing..

OK group.. I figured I'd go digging here, cause if you bring up CL ona regular goat group, your lambasted, cussed and black listed. But Ihave some questions, that I NEED answered. How much of this CL"scare" is based on fact ?? Yes goats get this, most likely they havefor centuries. strange,, they have not all died out. They have notbecome extinct. How is it, that many goats live with CL goats, andnever become infected?? If it's passed through the milk as it isclaimed, How is it that kids do not get it from their dams ?? Whenwe first started goats, back 12 years ago, we had a doe, we got fromauction, pop lump after lump, (she lived about 9 years after we gother) And none of her offspring that are still living,, have CL, (yeswe have been testing for the last 5 years since we show)....None ofher herdmates, 5 which we still own, have ever tested postive, yet,they lived in the same enclosure for 5 years. OK OK some would justargue that I'm Lucky or stupid.. whichever...Reguardless, I sometimes wonder how much is fact, and how much ofit is imagined,, to scare us.. just like all the lies and scaretactics the gov't uses to keep us from drinking our raw milk andeating the good raw foods... THis is something I want each and everygoat person, on this list to think about,, you dont' have to answer,,but really think about this,.... How many of you keep CL or CAE pos.goats.. isolate them when you see a lump, in a special CL pen. whenthey heal up, put em back with the herd, and disinfect the crap out ofthe pen?? Now I dont' really want anyone to get on here and reply,and tell me I'm a bad person, and I should Cull(nice word for Kill)all my goats that pop lumps cause that is idiotic in my book..But I really think we as goat people, need to separate fact, fromFiction. Oh and yes, I read that whole thing on sheep and shearing etc inAustraila. It was interesting,, But really there was NO medical,actual documented cases of CL. It was suggested. Just like we allwill get e-coli, and die from raw milk... I am not saying we shouldall just forgo our efforts, We should definatly be frugal in ourefforts to keep our goats from getting CL or CAE or anything. But donot automatically go phsyco and go on a killing spree cause a goatpops a lump... And don't make someone, who has a CL pos goat feel likethe only avenue they have is culling... I personally know a woman whois 87 years old, has had goats for ,,who knows how long, has had pos.CL goats she has cleaned and healed up .. and this woman does not haveCL, cancer or anything,, and then there are people who NEVER come incontact with goats,, and are dying of lymphatic cancer,,, I am looking forward to reading others feelings on this,, you canemail me privatly if you like,, I really dont' need to be lambasted,,I can go on the goat groups for that... LOL okee,, ,, the goatlady in PA

[Guest guest]

Considering this is a dairy list I would think it would be a big deal to have the possibilities of absesses draining in the udders!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't recommend people retain CL does just because of that. Do you want to drink pus?

Debbie ChikouskyManitoba, Canada"A successful man is one who can build afoundation with the bricks that others throw at him.”

-- Brinkley--

Re: This whole CL thing..

Hi, CL isn't the end of the world like most goat people think. You have to have open draining abcesses to infect the herd or in the case of kids you have to have draining abcesses in the udder. I have had pos goats and goats that have never had one so I just treat on a case by case basis and will cull something that is chronic but I don't freak out and lose my mind over it. I think it's all about the strength of the immune system in each goat. Just like with anything else, such as, why can you feed 20 goats of the same breed, sex and age the very same thing and you will still get some that become deficient in copper, thiamine , etc., while others do not? Same with worms..why do some goats have a hard time with worms and some don't in the same herd? It's interesting and I get a laugh out of talking with people that just think CL is the end of the world and yet they still buy from the sale yard, bring goats in that have never been tested, etc. I do vaccinate for CL with the autogenous vaccine because I don't like treating it but if one should pop up, which hasn't happened in almost 5 years, I'll deal with it.

[Guest guest]

It is a very big deal but IMPE, with lots of CL pos goats, I've yet to see a CL abcess in an udder. You will know if you have them in udders because you should be noticing changes in both udder and milk.

Considering this is a dairy list I would think it would be a big deal to have the possibilities of absesses draining in the udders!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't recommend people retain CL does just because of that. Do you want to drink pus?