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Hi z7770Welcome to the lovliest band spot on earth. I would love to know how you are going 3 years down the track. Have you reached goal etc. Can't wait to hear your story if you want to share it with us all. We don't bite!

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>

>

> Hi z7770

>

> Welcome to the lovliest band spot on earth. I would love to know

how you are going 3 years down the track. Have you reached goal

etc. Can't wait to hear your story if you want to share it with us

all. We don't bite!

>

>

> ,

I just looked at your photos, you should be so proud of yourself,

you look fantastic.

z

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  • 2 years later...

Welcome, Meredith. I don't post a lot, but love listening to

everyone's experiences and often helpful insight. I have a 10 1/2

year old daughter with OCD and tics, so I definitely know how you

feel. She does not have ADD, luckily, but I'm sure we can share some

of the same experiences. My daughter was diagnosed at age 6,

although she probably began showing tics around age 3 or 4. The ocd

symptoms didn't come out until the summer before first grade, and she

had a big breakdown the first few weeks into first grade. I didn't

want anyone to know, so I know what you mean about feeling like

people give a weird reaction to OCD. Our family, of course, and

close friends know but it's not something I mention offhand. My

daughter doesn't really seem to mind if people know, but she is in a

good place right now, so most people don't see her symptoms

regardless. Tics are even worse on the social acceptance scale, I

think. I have even had people say that they think someone with

tourrettes is somehow mentally retarded. It's a tough cross to bear

for our little ones, but we do the best that we can. Therapy was an

enormous help for my daughter, as well as medications. She takes

tenex for tics, which I think was even more helpful than the zoloft

for OCD. We saw a dramatic, almost immediate improvement in

symptoms. I hope everything goes well for you and your son. Where

do you live? Keep us updated.

Q.

> My son is 11 yrs. old. He has shown symptoms of OCD since age 4,

> but was finally diagnosed with OCD as well as ADD in September. He

> also has tics. I was looking for support because there are very few

> people I can talk to about his OCD who understand. It's so

> acceptable to talk about your child having ADD, but if you mention

> OCD, it's a whole different reaction. My son only wants to come to

> me with all of his OCD thoughts and worries, and it can get

> overwhelming sometimes. He has started with an excellent OCD

> specialist for therapy, which is helping him (and me!)

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

> Search.

>

>

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<<<<<<It's so acceptable to talk about your child having ADD, but if

you mention OCD, it's a whole different reaction.>>>>>>>

Yeah, sometimes something similar to a deer in headlights. lol

Welcome, Meredith. Seriously though, it is a bit frustrating, because

it does seem to be the overlooked disorder. Sometimes you can see the

light go on if you say, " You know, like Monk " . Other times they still

haven't a clue. I think people have a preconceived idea of what OCD

is, but it's nothing like the reality of it. I always find it amazing

how little knowledge and help are out there, when so many suffer from

it.

Anyway, glad you are here, Meredith. It's great to hear that you

found qualified help that is working for you. Many struggle to find

someone who REALLY knows what they are doing. But, it can help quite

a bit, for some, so it's worth the effort.

BJ

My son is 11 yrs. old. He has shown symptoms of OCD since age 4, but

was finally diagnosed with OCD as well as ADD in September. He also

has tics. I was looking for support because there are very few people

I can talk to about his OCD who understand. It's so acceptable to talk

about your child having ADD, but if you mention OCD, it's a whole

different reaction. My son only wants to come to me with all of his

OCD thoughts and worries, and it can get overwhelming sometimes. He

has started with an excellent OCD specialist for therapy, which is

helping him (and me!)

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

Search.

>

>

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Thank you, Chris! My son does need a LOT of reassurance, but I am

teaching him to reassure himself more rather than always coming to me

when he already knows what my answer is going to be: " That's OCD " . The

therapy has definitely helped him to see that his thoughts and worries

are all " OCD normal " .

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Thank you, ! I had never heard of Tenex for tics- it's good to

know there's a medication that can help. My son has had biofeedback

for the tics, but they still come and go. He hasn't taken anything for

the OCD yet- I'm hoping the therapy might be enough. We live in Texas-

where do you live? Meredith

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Thank you, B.J.! I've definitely gotten the deer in the headlights

reaction, and now if I do mention my son's problem to somebody, I just

call it " anxiety " . I've been a therapist in psychiatric hospitals for

15 years, and sometimes forget that there are a lot of people out

there who are still very uneducated about any kind of mental problems.

I had a friend who was going on about her stepson's anger problems, so

I thought I would share about my son's OCD- I didn't even go into any

specifics about the things he was worrying about, but I haven't heard

from her since! Very disappointing. Meredith

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I'm so sorry, Meredith. I know how hard all of this is. My son has been the

same way with me! I am so glad for you to have found a great ocd specialist.

We have yet to do that, but we're trying. . .

I hope the best for you.

I know it hurts.

Leigh Anne

New member

My son is 11 yrs. old. He has shown symptoms of OCD since age 4, but was finally

diagnosed with OCD as well as ADD in September. He also has tics. I was looking

for support because there are very few people I can talk to about his OCD who

understand. It's so acceptable to talk about your child having ADD, but if you

mention OCD, it's a whole different reaction. My son only wants to come to me

with all of his OCD thoughts and worries, and it can get overwhelming sometimes.

He has started with an excellent OCD specialist for therapy, which is helping

him (and me!)

------------ --------- --------- ---

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I'm so sorry, Meredith. I know how hard all of this is. My son has been the

same way with me! I am so glad for you to have found a great ocd specialist.

We have yet to do that, but we're trying. . .

I hope the best for you.

I know it hurts.

Leigh Anne

New member

My son is 11 yrs. old. He has shown symptoms of OCD since age 4, but was finally

diagnosed with OCD as well as ADD in September. He also has tics. I was looking

for support because there are very few people I can talk to about his OCD who

understand. It's so acceptable to talk about your child having ADD, but if you

mention OCD, it's a whole different reaction. My son only wants to come to me

with all of his OCD thoughts and worries, and it can get overwhelming sometimes.

He has started with an excellent OCD specialist for therapy, which is helping

him (and me!)

------------ --------- --------- ---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

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Thanks for sharing your story, Cat. I have been reading all of the posts today

and this seems like a great bunch of people! I am a bit older than you & I had

one of the first skateboards ever made when I was about 11. Of course, that was

before ollies and all of the great tricks that everyone does these days. I must

admit that I don't think that I would have the guts to do some of the harder

tricks where you go way up high! I will share your story with my son; he will

LOVE hearing about how much you like skateboarding ;~) He has always had a lot

of passion for the things that he is interested in and we definitely don't want

to squash that! We just want to help him find a little more balance in his

life, so that he will be able to also enjoy other things again. He really is

troubled by the " Bad Thoughts " and it is hard for him to relax and just enjoy

skating at times, as well as other things that his friends and family are doing.

We just really want to see him happy again!

Happy Skating!

Kim

Re: New Member

Hi Kim and welcome,

This might not be all that useful, and I apologize for that in

advance, but FWIW:

I'm a 45 year old mom who skateboards and there are times when it's

just about all I think about. I am not in any way trying to downplay

your son's problems--they sound quite debilitating--but I do want to

speak out as a skater because I very much doubt you'll find many

medical professionals who will take his passion seriously. I have many

women friends who skate and, as silly as it may sound, many of us have

lost sleep at night because we couldn't get out of our minds the

visions of trying to master the Ollie or other skate tricks. (Our

spouses are just happy we're not fantasizing about Brad Pitt.)

I'm not at all saying your son's case is a matter of innocent

daydreaming, but I do want to state that skateboarding, like many

technically demanding activities, seems to require a lot of " mental

practice. " I think writers, artists, thespians all experience these

intrusive thoughts too--they consider it part of their work. I still

can't drive down the road without wondering how I would skate that

paved storm run-off over there, or that cement ditch over there, or

that steep freeway on-ramp over there...

Certainly your son's experience sounds like it has crossed the

boundary into OCD, but I just wanted you to know that **part** of it

at least is normal for dedicated skaters.

Have you ever had his IQ tested? Sounds like a gifted boy to me.

Sorry if this didn't help much, and I hope you find a peaceful remedy

soon.

Cat

>

> Hi All,

> I just found this group today and am happy to have others to talk to

> about our 13 yr. old son's OCD. He began having obsessions about

> skateboarding last spring. We suspected that he might have OCD, but

> we didn't know much about it yet and it didn't seem to be interfering

> with our regular family life and homeschooling schedule at that point

> in time.In September,when we began working on homeschooling

> assignments again,we realized that he was having a lot of trouble

> concentrating and he also seemed very depressed.We live in an area

> that is medically underserved, so it has taken us many months to find

> a psychiatrist and CBT therapist to work with him. He has been taking

> prozac( 20 mg)for 6 weeks and that has helped him sleep better and

> his mood has really improved, but he still has troubles calming down

> at bedtime because of his intrusive thoughts. His Dr. has increased

> the dose to 40 mg, but he has only taken 30 mg. for two days and then

> will increase the dose to 40 mg.in 5 days. He has a magical thinking

> type of OCD where he is afraid to do, or like things that he used to

> like before he began skateboarding last spring. He is especially

> afraid to think about other sports that he really liked to

> participate in before he discovered skateboarding because he belives

> that this will give him bad luck with skateboarding. He is also very

> afraid that he will stop liking it altogether. He can't even watch

> sports on TV and has to leave the room. He has made some progress

> doing some of the things he used to enjoy( like eating cereal

> again,playing a skatebarding video game,playing with our pets, etc.)

> but he has a long way to go. It has been hard on his twin brother

> also because he really wants him to like skatebarding too, but he is

> not into it at all. We are hoping that the increase in his meds will

> help him relax more, so that he will find it easier to talk back to

> his bad thoughts and be able to enjoy more of the activities that he

> used to. We would also really like to have him get back into reading

> & learning about other things, besides skatebarding.It is hard at

> times, for us to tell the difference between OCD and normal teen

> behaviors!

>

> We look forward to sharing with the group!

>

> Kim

>

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Thanks for sharing your story, Cat. I have been reading all of the posts today

and this seems like a great bunch of people! I am a bit older than you & I had

one of the first skateboards ever made when I was about 11. Of course, that was

before ollies and all of the great tricks that everyone does these days. I must

admit that I don't think that I would have the guts to do some of the harder

tricks where you go way up high! I will share your story with my son; he will

LOVE hearing about how much you like skateboarding ;~) He has always had a lot

of passion for the things that he is interested in and we definitely don't want

to squash that! We just want to help him find a little more balance in his

life, so that he will be able to also enjoy other things again. He really is

troubled by the " Bad Thoughts " and it is hard for him to relax and just enjoy

skating at times, as well as other things that his friends and family are doing.

We just really want to see him happy again!

Happy Skating!

Kim

Re: New Member

Hi Kim and welcome,

This might not be all that useful, and I apologize for that in

advance, but FWIW:

I'm a 45 year old mom who skateboards and there are times when it's

just about all I think about. I am not in any way trying to downplay

your son's problems--they sound quite debilitating--but I do want to

speak out as a skater because I very much doubt you'll find many

medical professionals who will take his passion seriously. I have many

women friends who skate and, as silly as it may sound, many of us have

lost sleep at night because we couldn't get out of our minds the

visions of trying to master the Ollie or other skate tricks. (Our

spouses are just happy we're not fantasizing about Brad Pitt.)

I'm not at all saying your son's case is a matter of innocent

daydreaming, but I do want to state that skateboarding, like many

technically demanding activities, seems to require a lot of " mental

practice. " I think writers, artists, thespians all experience these

intrusive thoughts too--they consider it part of their work. I still

can't drive down the road without wondering how I would skate that

paved storm run-off over there, or that cement ditch over there, or

that steep freeway on-ramp over there...

Certainly your son's experience sounds like it has crossed the

boundary into OCD, but I just wanted you to know that **part** of it

at least is normal for dedicated skaters.

Have you ever had his IQ tested? Sounds like a gifted boy to me.

Sorry if this didn't help much, and I hope you find a peaceful remedy

soon.

Cat

>

> Hi All,

> I just found this group today and am happy to have others to talk to

> about our 13 yr. old son's OCD. He began having obsessions about

> skateboarding last spring. We suspected that he might have OCD, but

> we didn't know much about it yet and it didn't seem to be interfering

> with our regular family life and homeschooling schedule at that point

> in time.In September,when we began working on homeschooling

> assignments again,we realized that he was having a lot of trouble

> concentrating and he also seemed very depressed.We live in an area

> that is medically underserved, so it has taken us many months to find

> a psychiatrist and CBT therapist to work with him. He has been taking

> prozac( 20 mg)for 6 weeks and that has helped him sleep better and

> his mood has really improved, but he still has troubles calming down

> at bedtime because of his intrusive thoughts. His Dr. has increased

> the dose to 40 mg, but he has only taken 30 mg. for two days and then

> will increase the dose to 40 mg.in 5 days. He has a magical thinking

> type of OCD where he is afraid to do, or like things that he used to

> like before he began skateboarding last spring. He is especially

> afraid to think about other sports that he really liked to

> participate in before he discovered skateboarding because he belives

> that this will give him bad luck with skateboarding. He is also very

> afraid that he will stop liking it altogether. He can't even watch

> sports on TV and has to leave the room. He has made some progress

> doing some of the things he used to enjoy( like eating cereal

> again,playing a skatebarding video game,playing with our pets, etc.)

> but he has a long way to go. It has been hard on his twin brother

> also because he really wants him to like skatebarding too, but he is

> not into it at all. We are hoping that the increase in his meds will

> help him relax more, so that he will find it easier to talk back to

> his bad thoughts and be able to enjoy more of the activities that he

> used to. We would also really like to have him get back into reading

> & learning about other things, besides skatebarding.It is hard at

> times, for us to tell the difference between OCD and normal teen

> behaviors!

>

> We look forward to sharing with the group!

>

> Kim

>

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Hi Kim and welcome to the group.

Our 17-yr old son has OCD. Bad thoughts are part of his OCD, but

they are a small part. His biggest obesession is with contamination

from germs. He has also had trouble with getting to sleep at night.

Part of it is the bad thoughts and part of it is the SSRI he is

taking; sleeplessness is one of the side effects. He is not taking

Prozac; he takes Lexapro. His pdoc reduced the dosage and added

another medication that is supposed to enhance the SSRI. This

combination seems to be better. He is sleeping better and we have

seen a slight improvement in his OCD symptoms.

I certainly agree with you on the confusion between what is OCD

and what is teen stuff. This is probably the worst stage in a

person's life to have OCD. Teens are so self-conscience and they

worry about what their peers think of them. There is so much stuff

going on during the teen years. They are already secretive; add to

that the fact that they feel they need to hide their OCD symptoms. It

can be confusing and frustrating for parents. We also have a 20-yr

old daughter; so, we have already been thru all the teen stuff.

Still, there are times when we just don't know.

Between the medication and the CBT, I hope your son has some

improvement.

Connie

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Hi Kim and welcome to the group.

Our 17-yr old son has OCD. Bad thoughts are part of his OCD, but

they are a small part. His biggest obesession is with contamination

from germs. He has also had trouble with getting to sleep at night.

Part of it is the bad thoughts and part of it is the SSRI he is

taking; sleeplessness is one of the side effects. He is not taking

Prozac; he takes Lexapro. His pdoc reduced the dosage and added

another medication that is supposed to enhance the SSRI. This

combination seems to be better. He is sleeping better and we have

seen a slight improvement in his OCD symptoms.

I certainly agree with you on the confusion between what is OCD

and what is teen stuff. This is probably the worst stage in a

person's life to have OCD. Teens are so self-conscience and they

worry about what their peers think of them. There is so much stuff

going on during the teen years. They are already secretive; add to

that the fact that they feel they need to hide their OCD symptoms. It

can be confusing and frustrating for parents. We also have a 20-yr

old daughter; so, we have already been thru all the teen stuff.

Still, there are times when we just don't know.

Between the medication and the CBT, I hope your son has some

improvement.

Connie

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Hi Kim,

I'll second what Cat said. But it does sound like OCD may be

involved too. Which OCD can take anything and screw it up!

Where you wrote: " He has a magical thinking type of OCD where he is

afraid to do, or like things that he used to like before he began

skateboarding last spring. He is especially afraid to think about

other sports that he really liked to participate in before he

discovered skateboarding because he belives that this will give him

bad luck with skateboarding. "

AND: " He is also very afraid that he will stop liking it altogether.

He can't even watch sports on TV and has to leave the room. "

*YEP, sounds like this has triggered a bit of OCD in him.

My son, now 19, has OCD that began back around age 11.5. He had his

little OC type " quirks " before that. But in 6th grade, all new stuff

popped up that consumed him 24/7. For him it was a lot of

compulsions, repeating things, touching.... Just a feeling

that " something bad would happen to him " if he didn't do these

things. Plus some things involved a " just right " feeling (repeating

until it felt " right " ). Anyway, eventually got beyond that. He was

on Celexa in 9th and 10th grades. Things were fine. He began

reading the Bible at bedtime. Fine. But I know I worried that his

OCD would take the Bible and run with it. Because he'd always been a

bit " scrupulous " in ways, so honest and always wanting to do " right "

etc. Well, he quit Celexa at the end of 10th grade, felt he could do

well on his own. Middle of 11th grade, here we go: He had

apparently made all kinds of rash promises to God, just thoughts

popping into his head, worried as he shouldn't make promises to

God/swear, but had to keep them, took some things in the Bible a bit

too literally.... He constantly thinks " bad thoughts " about God...

== That's the short version of the story. Just to show, in our case,

how OCD can take hold on anything.

OR to make up example, maybe someone was worried about getting

germs/dirty from something or catching virus from someone...then OCD

seems to jump in and it spreads to germs/virus from ANY one or thing,

constant washing, trying not to breathe in others' germs, touch

things....

My oldest son (almost 23) was into skateboarding. EVERY day. They

do get into it! Later he had a girlfriend who began to take up so

much time I wanted him to go BACK to skateboarding, LOL. I wanted

him to have that " balance " - girlfriend, skateboarding/other, hang

out with other friends. He did take her with him when he began to

skateboard more often (after that lapse when they began dating), poor

girl, I think since she didn't skateboard and had to spend hours

watching. :) He did play soccer in high school too, but girlfriend

was last year of & after high school.

My OCDer has a twin, not identical. They are soooo opposite each

other, they don't even hang out together, no common interests and

maybe too different in personality. Except for the video game,

Pokemon....years, they had that in common.

I hope your son can continue trying to boss back the

thoughts/feelings so he can again enjoy the time spent skateboarding

and thinking about skateboarding. OCD can rob the joy out of

ANYthing!

Do keep us updated and glad you found this group!

single mom, 3 sons

, 19, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers/mild

>

> Hi All,

> I just found this group today and am happy to have others to talk

to

> about our 13 yr. old son's OCD. He began having obsessions about

> skateboarding last spring. We suspected that he might have OCD, but

> we didn't know much about it yet and it didn't seem to be

interfering

> with our regular family life and homeschooling schedule at that

point

> in time.In September,when we began working on homeschooling

> assignments again,we realized that he was having a lot of trouble

> concentrating and he also seemed very depressed.We live in an area

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Hi Kim,

I'll second what Cat said. But it does sound like OCD may be

involved too. Which OCD can take anything and screw it up!

Where you wrote: " He has a magical thinking type of OCD where he is

afraid to do, or like things that he used to like before he began

skateboarding last spring. He is especially afraid to think about

other sports that he really liked to participate in before he

discovered skateboarding because he belives that this will give him

bad luck with skateboarding. "

AND: " He is also very afraid that he will stop liking it altogether.

He can't even watch sports on TV and has to leave the room. "

*YEP, sounds like this has triggered a bit of OCD in him.

My son, now 19, has OCD that began back around age 11.5. He had his

little OC type " quirks " before that. But in 6th grade, all new stuff

popped up that consumed him 24/7. For him it was a lot of

compulsions, repeating things, touching.... Just a feeling

that " something bad would happen to him " if he didn't do these

things. Plus some things involved a " just right " feeling (repeating

until it felt " right " ). Anyway, eventually got beyond that. He was

on Celexa in 9th and 10th grades. Things were fine. He began

reading the Bible at bedtime. Fine. But I know I worried that his

OCD would take the Bible and run with it. Because he'd always been a

bit " scrupulous " in ways, so honest and always wanting to do " right "

etc. Well, he quit Celexa at the end of 10th grade, felt he could do

well on his own. Middle of 11th grade, here we go: He had

apparently made all kinds of rash promises to God, just thoughts

popping into his head, worried as he shouldn't make promises to

God/swear, but had to keep them, took some things in the Bible a bit

too literally.... He constantly thinks " bad thoughts " about God...

== That's the short version of the story. Just to show, in our case,

how OCD can take hold on anything.

OR to make up example, maybe someone was worried about getting

germs/dirty from something or catching virus from someone...then OCD

seems to jump in and it spreads to germs/virus from ANY one or thing,

constant washing, trying not to breathe in others' germs, touch

things....

My oldest son (almost 23) was into skateboarding. EVERY day. They

do get into it! Later he had a girlfriend who began to take up so

much time I wanted him to go BACK to skateboarding, LOL. I wanted

him to have that " balance " - girlfriend, skateboarding/other, hang

out with other friends. He did take her with him when he began to

skateboard more often (after that lapse when they began dating), poor

girl, I think since she didn't skateboard and had to spend hours

watching. :) He did play soccer in high school too, but girlfriend

was last year of & after high school.

My OCDer has a twin, not identical. They are soooo opposite each

other, they don't even hang out together, no common interests and

maybe too different in personality. Except for the video game,

Pokemon....years, they had that in common.

I hope your son can continue trying to boss back the

thoughts/feelings so he can again enjoy the time spent skateboarding

and thinking about skateboarding. OCD can rob the joy out of

ANYthing!

Do keep us updated and glad you found this group!

single mom, 3 sons

, 19, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers/mild

>

> Hi All,

> I just found this group today and am happy to have others to talk

to

> about our 13 yr. old son's OCD. He began having obsessions about

> skateboarding last spring. We suspected that he might have OCD, but

> we didn't know much about it yet and it didn't seem to be

interfering

> with our regular family life and homeschooling schedule at that

point

> in time.In September,when we began working on homeschooling

> assignments again,we realized that he was having a lot of trouble

> concentrating and he also seemed very depressed.We live in an area

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Connie &

Thank you both for the warm welcome and also for your willingness to

share about your sons'experiences! It seems that you have gained so

much wisdom along the way. I noticed that you are a single

parent too; Kudos to you for being there for your sons! I look

forward to learning/sharing a lot more with all of the kind people

here.

Thanks Again!

Kim

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  • 3 years later...

Hi everyone. I am new to the group.

I recently acquired Kefir grains and started fermenting milk. They are great

and I have definitely noticed improved health since switching from normal milk

to fermented milk. I have shared my Kefir with some friends and family since.

I wanted to learn more about fermented foods and read about Kombucha.

Now I would love to try to make some Kombucha for myself. Where can I get

obtain these creatures? Kombucha is a collection of organisms (bacteria and

yeasts) living in a symbiotic relationship correct? Are there different strains

going around?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!

P.S. I can share Kefir grains with people if they are willing to come pick them

up or pay for shipping.

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Tell us wherer you live. There might be someone close to you who can help. Also,

post a want ad on Freecycle if you have one for your county. That is how I got

my first scoby.

Lyn in WV

----- Original Message -----

Hi everyone. I am new to the group.

I recently acquired Kefir grains and started fermenting milk. They are great and

I have definitely noticed improved health since switching from normal milk to

fermented milk. I have shared my Kefir with some friends and family since.

I wanted to learn more about fermented foods and read about Kombucha.

Now I would love to try to make some Kombucha for myself. Where can I get obtain

these creatures? Kombucha is a collection of organisms (bacteria and yeasts)

living in a symbiotic relationship correct? Are there different strains going

around?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!

P.S. I can share Kefir grains with people if they are willing to come pick them

up or pay for shipping.

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Hello Vinny,

Here is a website that will tell you have to produce your own SCOBY from

" scratch " .

http://www.raw-food-diet-magazine.com/kombucha-recipe.html

Welcome to the group!

Jane Humes

new member

Hi everyone. I am new to the group.

I recently acquired Kefir grains and started fermenting milk. They are great

and I have definitely noticed improved health since switching from normal milk

to fermented milk. I have shared my Kefir with some friends and family since.

I wanted to learn more about fermented foods and read about Kombucha.

Now I would love to try to make some Kombucha for myself. Where can I get

obtain these creatures? Kombucha is a collection of organisms (bacteria and

yeasts) living in a symbiotic relationship correct? Are there different strains

going around?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!

P.S. I can share Kefir grains with people if they are willing to come pick

them up or pay for shipping.

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