Re: Second Ferment Question

[Guest guest]

In message you wrote:

> When performing a second ferment, is it important that the solution be

> maintained under pressure, or is it okay to put a brewer's airlock on it

> to let off excess pressure?

>

Hello Mike, :-)

Liquids under airlock will not produce a fizzy end product, but if fizz is

not important to you you could use an airlock.

In order to achieve a fizzy KT, the bottle/s have to be kept in a corked or

screw-topped or capped bottles

2 things are important here in order to avoid an explosion of the bottles

under pressure:

You need to use bottles which have had fizzy/bubbly drinks in it before -

glass that has been made strong enough to withstand some pressure.

I use such recycled bottles very successfully.

It is wise to check your brew after about a week by releasing the screwtops

= 'burping' the bottles to avoid excess pressure building up and bursting the

bottles - especially important in warm weather.

Happy drinking and brewing,

Margret in a cold UK where spring has got lost;-)

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[Guest guest]

it is okay... in fact a 10l secondary ferment under airlock i started today is

going to be kombucha wine.

>

> When performing a second ferment, is it important that the solution be

> maintained under pressure, or is it okay to put a brewer's airlock on it

> to let off excess pressure?

>

> Thanks,

> Mike

>

> --

> Zone 8, Texas

> http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organichomesteading/

> http://www.naturalbeefarm.com/ Natural Beekeeping

>

[Guest guest]

Can you share your Kombucha wine directions??

Thanks!!

Modiste

________________________________

To: original_kombucha

Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:51 AM

Subject: Re: Second Ferment Question

 

it is okay... in fact a 10l secondary ferment under airlock i started today is

going to be kombucha wine.

>

> When performing a second ferment, is it important that the solution be

> maintained under pressure, or is it okay to put a brewer's airlock on it

> to let off excess pressure?

>

> Thanks,

> Mike

>

> --

> Zone 8, Texas

> http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organichomesteading/

> http://www.naturalbeefarm.com/ Natural Beekeeping

>

[Guest guest]

>

> it is okay... in fact a 10l secondary ferment under airlock

> i started today is going to be kombucha wine.

Not to get too nit-picky about vocabulary, but to hone what we are talking

about. KT has no secondary fermentation stage. When flavoring is added and

capped off (or airlocked), the original fermentation is renewed. I.e.

sugar->alchol->acid. The difference is the container is usually capped to trap

the CO2 and thus develop carbonation. But we are still undergoing primary

fermentation.

Even in wine making the term secondary fermentation is MISUSED. When one racks

the must from the primary *vessel* to the secondary *vessel*, the exact same

kind of fermentation continues (i.e. sugar->alchol). But this is often

incorrectly termed secondary fermentation. It is not.

In wine once fermentation ceases (the sugar->alchol kind), the wine maker has a

choice if he/she wants to ferment the ACID. This fermentation is from acid ->

acid. I.e. you transform one acid into another acid. THIS is secondary

fermentation.

So you see secondary fermentation has no meaning to KT. And once you strip the

mystery of that term away you can see that capping or airlocking doesn't really

matter except do you want fizz or not.

And now that we see " secondary fermentation " is just really primary fermentation

a second time and unlike wine we don't usually keep KT for years, then

protecting KT from air (i.e. using an airlock) isn't really necessary either.

Since wine spoils over long term storage from oxidization and our KT doesn't

usually last long enough to care. Would KT even oxidize? (I don't know)

So you see what the average KT brewer needs is just plain old sanitary methods.

No carboy, airlock, racking siphon, etc... required. (note: sanitary only,

sterilation is not possible/practicle @ home)

Now you mention KT wine. If you mean that you intend to bottle and store KT for

years, then you are going down a great path by using airlocks and such.

[Guest guest]

sure, here is what i did:

because i didn't want to buy brewery sanitizer i just used dish washer liquid

and hot water to wash the carboy, then rinsed a few times, then with distilled

white vinegar and lastly with distilled water.

i mixed 2 gallons of kt + 2 cups of dextrose + 8g packet of champagne yeast in a

23l carboy and stopper with a double-bubble airlock.

the kt was brewed with cold steeped white tea and raw cane sugar.

it is possible to do it w/o dextrose (right-handed glucose) and champagne yeast

(i used vintners harvest CL23), relying on the wild yeasts in the air, but it

will be probably low in alcohol (~2%abv) and may metabolize random alcohols some

of which may be toxic... since this is the first time i am doing this i decided

to play it safe.

storing in a dark spot, ideally at 20C or more. i have 18C at the moment and it

is not bubbling yet. may take upto 4-5 days according to what i read. i didn't

made a yeast starter, that means a slow start too.

i plan on fermenting it for at least six weeks. then i could bottle it to store

it for three months minimum, six months or more is better.

i could also just leave it sealed in the carboy and siphon it out as needed.

useful url:

kombuchakollective.wordpress.com/2010/04/27/making-kombucha-wine/

> >

> > When performing a second ferment, is it important that the solution be

> > maintained under pressure, or is it okay to put a brewer's airlock on it

> > to let off excess pressure?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Mike

> >

> > --

> > Zone 8, Texas

> > http://www.taroandti.com/ Exotic Plant Info and More...

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/organichomesteading/

> > http://www.naturalbeefarm.com/ Natural Beekeeping

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Anon, Thank you for your enlightening article on

'secondary fermentation'. You have just moved me up a rung

on my quest for Kombucha fermentation knowledge. :-)

I just used the term as simply counting the how oftens of

messing about with the brew:

stage 1 feeding the culture sweet tea and in the process sugar being

converted to healthy acids over a period of time

stage 2 refining the process at bottling stage when (as you quite rightly

point out) the same process as before continues as the yeast/bacteria

team consumes sugars still remaining and in the process storing up the

CO2 in the bottle thereby produced (which before evaporated through the

cloth covering the brew).

The Kombucha is still Kombucha, even if more mature/vinegary/fizzy.

> >

>

> > it is okay... in fact a 10l secondary ferment under airlock

> > i started today is going to be kombucha wine.

I assume the anaerobic fermentation continuing under airlock is still the

same fermentation? Or does the now not aerobic fermentation mean that it's

truly a secondary a secondary fermentation?

Boo-hoo...I think, my brain has just taken a back somersault! ;-)

Kombuchaly,

Margret in UK :-)

> Not to get too nit-picky about vocabulary, but to hone what we are talking

about. KT has no secondary fermentation stage. When flavoring is added and

capped off (or airlocked), the original fermentation is renewed. I.e.

sugar->alchol->acid. The difference is the container is usually capped to trap

the CO2 and thus develop carbonation. But we are still undergoing primary

fermentation.

>

> Even in wine making the term secondary fermentation is MISUSED. When one

racks the must from the primary *vessel* to the secondary *vessel*, the exact

same kind of fermentation continues (i.e. sugar->alchol). But this is often

incorrectly termed secondary fermentation. It is not.

>

> In wine once fermentation ceases (the sugar->alchol kind), the wine maker has

a choice if he/she wants to ferment the ACID. This fermentation is from acid ->

acid. I.e. you transform one acid into another acid. THIS is secondary

fermentation.

>

> So you see secondary fermentation has no meaning to KT. And once you strip

the mystery of that term away you can see that capping or airlocking doesn't

really matter except do you want fizz or not.

>

> And now that we see " secondary fermentation " is just really primary

fermentation a second time and unlike wine we don't usually keep KT for years,

then protecting KT from air (i.e. using an airlock) isn't really necessary

either. Since wine spoils over long term storage from oxidization and our KT

doesn't usually last long enough to care. Would KT even oxidize? (I don't

know)

>

> So you see what the average KT brewer needs is just plain old sanitary

methods. No carboy, airlock, racking siphon, etc... required. (note: sanitary

only, sterilation is not possible/practicle @ home)

>

> Now you mention KT wine. If you mean that you intend to bottle and store KT

for years, then you are going down a great path by using airlocks and such.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>