Re: Child Abuse Issues at School...Please HELP

October 2, 2007

Perhaps CPS should get involved since he is obviously being neglected. I

wonder how any of those teachers or staff would like it if heaven-forbid

their OWN child had special needs and could not use the potty on his/her own

and the very people there to care for him just let him sit in his own urine

and feces all day??? This makes me boiling mad. I don't have enough

knowledge of the law to chime in, but I hope others that are more

knowledgeable than I will put their two cents in.

>

> I am forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the Metro

> area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

>

> Thank you, Irma.

>

> Here is my friend's plea for help:

>

> I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is now

> in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

> yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me telling

> me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what? There

> is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said this is

> junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed, DUH!

> So, I relented and went there and changed him.

>

> Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

> attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

> functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed schools...we

> fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

>

> Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

> times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour poor

> XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

> it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

> I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals he

> has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

> discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower functioning

> school.

>

> I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

> website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because it

> does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

>

> I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if the

> kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

> should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

>

> I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

>

--

Peace,

Staci

http://gabesjourney-gabesmom.blogspot.com/

October 2, 2007

It sounds more like neglect than abuse, but I could be wrong. If potty training

is in his IEP, then they ARE aware that accidents will happen. It sounds like

they may be in fear of a sexual abuse possibility since your son is in jr. High.

If this is the case, then maybe you can bring this to their attention. Maybe it

needs to be more specifically addressed that if and when there is an accident 2

people are to assist in helping him change.to eliminate their fear and have your

son's needs legally addressed. Do NOT let them intimidate you!! As a former

public school teacher I always had this objective stated clearly in the IEP.

They also may need to have a better potty schedule to help resolve the issue.

Did the accident happen at the same time on both days? What has changed in the

last couple of days to cause the potty accidents? I am sorry you are going thru

this!

Lesli Bernanke

Under the Umbrella

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Child Abuse Issues at School...Please HELP

I am forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the Metro

area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

Thank you, Irma.

Here is my friend's plea for help:

I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is now

in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me telling

me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what? There

is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said this is

junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed, DUH!

So, I relented and went there and changed him.

Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed schools...we

fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour poor

XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals he

has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower functioning

school.

I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because it

does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if the

kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

October 2, 2007

I dont have any knowledge about this either but like Staci said call

CPS...surely they will recgnoize that is very poor judgement!

Staci Cavazos wrote: Perhaps CPS should get

involved since he is obviously being neglected. I

wonder how any of those teachers or staff would like it if heaven-forbid

their OWN child had special needs and could not use the potty on his/her own

and the very people there to care for him just let him sit in his own urine

and feces all day??? This makes me boiling mad. I don't have enough

knowledge of the law to chime in, but I hope others that are more

knowledgeable than I will put their two cents in.

>

> I am forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the Metro

> area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

>

> Thank you, Irma.

>

> Here is my friend's plea for help:

>

> I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is now

> in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

> yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me telling

> me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what? There

> is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said this is

> junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed, DUH!

> So, I relented and went there and changed him.

>

> Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

> attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

> functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed schools...we

> fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

>

> Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

> times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour poor

> XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

> it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

> I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals he

> has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

> discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower functioning

> school.

>

> I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

> website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because it

> does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

>

> I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if the

> kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

> should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

>

> I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

>

--

Peace,

Staci

http://gabesjourney-gabesmom.blogspot.com/

October 2, 2007

It makes me so angry to hear that you are having to go through all this.

Tomorrow at your meeting you should tell them you are going to write a letter to

TEA (Texas Education Agency) and tell them the situation. I had some different

issues with the school my boys went to (I have twin boys with autism who are

nonverbal) I wrote to TEA and send a copy of the letter to the school district.

In a matter of two days the school district was ready to listen to me. I hated

doing this but sometimes it is the only way to get their attention.

Staci Cavazos wrote: Perhaps CPS should get

involved since he is obviously being neglected. I

wonder how any of those teachers or staff would like it if heaven-forbid

their OWN child had special needs and could not use the potty on his/her own

and the very people there to care for him just let him sit in his own urine

and feces all day??? This makes me boiling mad. I don't have enough

knowledge of the law to chime in, but I hope others that are more

knowledgeable than I will put their two cents in.

>

> I am forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the Metro

> area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

>

> Thank you, Irma.

>

> Here is my friend's plea for help:

>

> I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is now

> in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

> yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me telling

> me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what? There

> is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said this is

> junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed, DUH!

> So, I relented and went there and changed him.

>

> Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

> attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

> functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed schools...we

> fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

>

> Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

> times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour poor

> XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

> it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

> I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals he

> has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

> discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower functioning

> school.

>

> I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

> website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because it

> does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

>

> I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if the

> kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

> should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

>

> I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

>

--

Peace,

Staci

http://gabesjourney-gabesmom.blogspot.com/

October 2, 2007

,

These are some very good suggestions, I would add that your friend

who sent the plea needs to call an ARD in writing ASAP, state that

she wants to address the specific IEP goal of potty training. Make

the suggestions stated and have them all added to the IEP in

very measurable details and in the ARD notes. Ask for a schedule of

bathroom attempts during the day (once an hour etc..) to go home

every day with the student.

Nagla

>

> It sounds more like neglect than abuse, but I could be wrong. If

potty training is in his IEP, then they ARE aware that accidents will

happen. It sounds like they may be in fear of a sexual abuse

possibility since your son is in jr. High. If this is the case, then

maybe you can bring this to their attention. Maybe it needs to be

more specifically addressed that if and when there is an accident 2

people are to assist in helping him change.to eliminate their fear

and have your son's needs legally addressed. Do NOT let them

intimidate you!! As a former public school teacher I always had this

objective stated clearly in the IEP. They also may need to have a

better potty schedule to help resolve the issue. Did the accident

happen at the same time on both days? What has changed in the last

couple of days to cause the potty accidents? I am sorry you are going

thru this!

>

> Lesli Bernanke

> Under the Umbrella

>

> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

>

> Child Abuse Issues at

School...Please HELP

>

> I am forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the

Metro

> area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

>

> Thank you, Irma.

>

> Here is my friend's plea for help:

>

> I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is

now

> in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

> yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me

telling

> me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what?

There

> is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said

this is

> junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed,

DUH!

> So, I relented and went there and changed him.

>

> Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

> attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

> functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed

schools...we

> fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

>

> Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

> times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour

poor

> XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

> it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

> I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals

he

> has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

> discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower

functioning

> school.

>

> I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

> website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because

it

> does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

>

> I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if

the

> kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

> should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

>

> I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

>

October 2, 2007

Thank you everyone!

Here is the latest reply from my friend as I have forward your emails.

Tomorrow is her meeting.

Fwd. as is:

Thanks, Irma.....I called cps hotline and waited for almost 30 minutes

on hold....no one ever came on and XXX's school bus had

arrived....will call the local people here in FTW tomorrow. Also

going to take him to his doctor to get in writing that he was treated

for a rash caused by sitting in urine.

Yes I do think they are afraid of sexual issues, as XXX is now in

puberty.....too bad, isn't it? What do they do with paralyzed kids in

wheelchairs? Do they sit in their soil all day too?

XXXX

October 2, 2007

She can report online and not have to sit on the phone.

https://www.txabusehotline.org/

I wish her the best and hope this is resolved soon.

>

> Thank you everyone!

> Here is the latest reply from my friend as I have forward your emails.

> Tomorrow is her meeting.

>

> Fwd. as is:

>

> Thanks, Irma.....I called cps hotline and waited for almost 30 minutes

> on hold....no one ever came on and XXX's school bus had

> arrived....will call the local people here in FTW tomorrow. Also

> going to take him to his doctor to get in writing that he was treated

> for a rash caused by sitting in urine.

>

> Yes I do think they are afraid of sexual issues, as XXX is now in

> puberty.....too bad, isn't it? What do they do with paralyzed kids in

> wheelchairs? Do they sit in their soil all day too?

>

> XXXX

>

--

Peace,

Staci

http://gabesjourney-gabesmom.blogspot.com/

October 2, 2007

Perhaps a few thoughts to consider,

Nowadays...

Teachers in middle schools are not necessarily lining up to deal with issues of

potty training. Yes, they do go through all types of classroom instruction on

theory, best practices, classroom management, curriculum, positive reinforcers,

etc. , but they might cringe whenever there is a need for dealing with a

childs's natural body functions in a classroom...

Some teachers or instructional assistants may refuse to deal with it, and run

to their principal for support. The principal, guided by the unwritten code of

" protect your turf " , and " I'm the Boss " , may decide to direct the parent to

explore other instructional programs in the district that are " more suited " to

deal with these needs......thus, the search for alternative classroom programs

at different schools begins.

And the nightmare begins...the student has a need, but some educators feel it's

not an educational need.

So what are the challenges?

First, lets look at how many days of school exist for the child before

graduation...middle school? maybe four or five years?

So if there are roughly 180 days of school for each year, you get an idea that

perhaps around 900 days exist to teach that child things like social skills,

academics, vocational skills, independent living skills, etc. Oh, and somewhere

along the line lets make sure that potty training is included....(as the

educators state that its not an instructional need, parents state that it is!)

I believe that sometimes people on an elementary , middle school and even high

school campus don't think about TIME as a factor for the student when they draft

IEP's Goals, etc. They worry more about policy , and how it affects their

actions on a campus.

Parents LIVE with the results of each day of instruction that a child receives

at school.So the bottom line is :

Is potty training an educational/ instructional need?

If we expect employers to hire an individual in the future, the ability to take

care of ones body functions is probably a factor. Is it a LIFE skill? Is it a

medical issue?

If a person is expected to live independently in a home, apartment, group home,

etc...will the ability to control and address body functions like going to the

bathroom be a factor in whether or not that person can function independently?

If you think that going to the movies, traveling on a trip with friends,

visiting relatives, watching TV at home, or sitting in a school six hours a day

may be a part of your childs life in the future, potty training could be an

instructional goal that would address independent living skills that make all of

these activities possible.

It's got to be part of an IEP or else you are putting a lot of faith in the good

intentions of a dedicated teacher and support staff...and they are not always

going to be there.

Potty training....

It doesn't affect state testing, it does not impact the scores of a school

population, or the job security of an administrator on a campus, or the

competition of campuses within a district....So it may not have a lot of value

from school administrators. It does affect the future ability of a child to

function with others independently in a variety of social settings.

So,

Get the IEP to include potty training as an instructional goal with objectives.

Get a schedule for the child and staff to use in a classroom.

Get a time period that the training should address. Will the staff be training

for 9 weeks, 18 weeks, a year? Define every detail.

Review the IEP as needed...every 3 weeks, six weeks, etc... Dont let time pass

without checking on progress...

Oh Jeez, I went too long on this e-mail...sorry.!

Just some thoughts...

MC

mum592001 wrote: I am

forwarding this from one of my friends who lives out in the Metro

area. Thought maybe y'all could share your input here.

Thank you, Irma.

Here is my friend's plea for help:

I've got a serious prob I hope someone can help me with. XXXX is now

in junior high. They are aware that he is not totally potty trained

yet. So far, he hasn't had any accidents. Friday, they call me telling

me to come and change him because they can't! I was like, what? There

is a change of clothes and pull ups I send, but the nurse said this is

junior high and we don't do that....I said but it's special ed, DUH!

So, I relented and went there and changed him.

Yesterday, they called again. Mind you, they didn't want XXXX to

attend this school in the first place, as they have " higher

functioning " spec. ed. and " lower " functioning spec. ed schools...we

fought to keep him at his home school, the higher functioning one.

Anyway, I didn't answer the phone...they called a total of EIGHT

times, on my home phone and cell....ended up being over an hour poor

XXXX SAT IN HIS OWN URINE because they couldn't change him because

it's not in his IEP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a copy of his IEP and bathroom training is one of the goals he

has NOT mastered yet and they KNOW this...it's all a ploy to get us

discouraged so that we give in and send him to the lower functioning

school.

I called Texas Special Ed and copied a complaint form from their

website. Can the school legally NOT take care of his needs because it

does not specifically state that he needs to be changed????????????

I feel this is child abuse.....who cares what the papers say, if the

kid is wet, and the parents cannot be reached, then common sense

should prevail!!! He now his a rash from the urine!!!!

I need help asap, the meeting's tomorrow.

---------------------------------

Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

October 3, 2007

Thank you everyone. I am waiting to hear something from my friend,

but goof ball here forgot to ask her what time was her meeting?

Hey Mike,

Back in my rookie days of just learning about autism when my son was

12 y/o for numerous of years without the label only DS. Thinking back

on how the school district & I had tried getting my son toilet trained

as I kept pushing it as I was tiring out with every training method

used. All failed. Still there was nothing involved like with the

interventions of today noticed yet but glad that at least I did not

have to go through what one of my friend is experiencing.

Once he entered the Middle school at the ARD meeting I told them that

the goals I wanted to see some improvements before entering High

school were for my son being toilet-trained, work on strategies to

keep him from bolting, he was such an escape artist and of course his

communication skills in order to function in the so call REAL WORLD.

The SLP was wonderful with him, did manage to figure out his groove.

My son was then dx'd with AU at a late age and you name it. I stayed

up online searching for some answers but this really opened the doors

towards lots of services for him and workshops for me to attend to the

max. I was pretty overwhelmed and it was great that the IEP team were

very open-minded towards these goals to be addressed and the entire

school staff, including the principal, Special Ed Director, school

psychologist, special ed teacher and staff, they would just attend

whatever workshop or conferences as what they learn my son was not the

only one who benefit from it as their other students similar to my

son's needs had also benefit from it, too. Speak about some of us

parents placing the teacher in a pedestal and crowned her as " The

potty queen " .

Of course there was a missing link at my end. I had the opportunity to

meet Temple Grandin, gosh its been years now but this was the missing

piece. Sensory integration dysfunction, she had mentioned about

herself having to rely being on a schedule using her watch, and in my

son's case, had asked if he understood the concept of feeling wet and

dry? This was the key. Before I knew it, once I applied some

techniques recommended and then my son was seen by a tremendous OT who

specialized with sensory integration once again this just open the

door again. Mission accomplished toilet-trained before he reached HS

but it was still getting him to initiate, did decrease bolting, was

now actually also coming around eating too, this was another issue.

Oh and the Special Ed transportation I also had to include them too

and they did, at that time send out another bus to accommodate making

sure my son was in the bus no longer than 30 minutes during his toilet

training days.

I wanted to focus on the toilet training as I wanted less hands on and

I knew that HS was going to be a different ball game.

Yep, it surely was. Then this is where I had learn about ABA/VB and he

had made some tremendous progress vocalizing over 200 words by the

time he reached his 3rd year and me will just learning about the

Special Ed laws & rules will you could say missed out by pushing for

that " total communication " .

But you would think " COMMON SENSE " here to focus on the self-help

independent skills or basic functional skills in order to fit into the

" one size fits all " program they had in mind for him.

Of course spoke up for my son's needs and what a drama world it

became. Well, another chapter.

I did recommend for my friend since she is up north in the metro area

to contact Gail Wayman or Batts out in the Plano area for the

toilet training workshops as I highly recommend them but we shall see

if she seeks action.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Irma

>

> Perhaps a few thoughts to consider,

>

> Nowadays...

October 3, 2007

i think these caretakers, educators, therapists, etc who are willing to let a

child sit in their own mess best be careful because one day, when they are

older, they too might need some help.

Mike Carrillo wrote: Perhaps a few thoughts

to consider,

Nowadays...

Teachers in middle schools are not necessarily lining up to deal with issues of

potty training. Yes, they do go through all types of classroom instruction on

theory, best practices, classroom management, curriculum, positive reinforcers,

etc. , but they might cringe whenever there is a need for dealing with a

childs's natural body functions in a classroom...

Some teachers or instructional assistants may refuse to deal with it, and run to

their principal for support. The principal, guided by the unwritten code of