RE: Re: OT: How to help kids with autism communicate like typical kids

[Guest guest]

I agree wonderful footage, thanks for posting, will have a go at this with Harry.

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: bbuyonline@...Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 11:51:37 +0000Subject: Re: OT: How to help kids with autism communicate like typical kids

excellent footage and really useful! just practiced some of it with my daughter ready to try on my son, thank you for that!karenza>> http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com> > My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all human communication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can help them to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables him to co-regulate their interaction.> > Zoe>

[Guest guest]

Hi

We have done ABA for the past two years, my son had no imitation skills when we started so we began by sitting opposite each other at the table and doing simple tasks (hand over hand to begin with) for instance one of the first things we did was have a plastic cup (one each) and a toy brick(again one each) they should look the same to begin with, then i would say "do this" and place the brick in the cup, at first Harry didn't do it as he didn't understand what was expected of him, so i would hold his hand over the brick and help him place the brick into the cup after saying "do this", then i would give a reward on some sort, this has to be something that the child really likes and Harry at that time it was raisins, he quickly caught on that if he did something he would get a reward.

HTH

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: emilyscorer@...Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:34:30 +0000Subject: Re: OT: How to help kids with autism communicate like typical kids

Hi Zoe,This is really interesting but my question is how do you begin or wheredo you begin if you have a child who has no imitation skills or lost hisimitation skills?thanks,emily x>> http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com>> My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all humancommunication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can helpthem to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables himto co-regulate their interaction.>> Zoe>

[Guest guest]

Dear I think that sometimes our babes have to do the same sequence of things that they would have done from the beginning had they not had such challenges in their lives... So it may be that all the speech etc comes after a lot of the other things have developed more fully and if taken out of sequence can start early gains and then plateau to allow for other areas to develop more.

Tash has never had a normal sense of humour.. Hers was not appropriate.. laughing at things which she should not have... We have tried for years to develop it.. no joy... however as she is so much better, breathing and sleeping better and her seizure condition seems to be healing itself, she is naturally and automatically developing a wonderful sense of humour.. and is laughing along with the rest of us..

Norman must have so much confusion with his seizure activity that there is no constant flow of stuff hitting his brain which would make fine tuning his brain really challenging.. 

In the words of the wise.. 18 year old in our house... with time " anything and Everything is possible " Tracey

 

Hi Bbrowne,

Thanks for your replies. The question is for my son who is 16yrs (with

epilepsy etc).

We did ABA when he was about 3.5yrs for over two years. He made

progress and was strong with receptive programs but expressive was v.

slow and poor but he did get to saying some single words and was

beginning to use some words to form simple 2-3 word sentences. His

imitation skills were not great and he appeared to get " bored " very

quickly and so it was difficult to get consistency. Overall he was very

difficult to motivate, he did respond to the reward system but only had

limited rewards he would work for.

In the end we had to stop the programme for various reasons, seizures

were becoming intrusive and we could see that he was just sliding

downhill gradually and we couldn't stop it, our funding had also come to

an end and was not likely to be renewed and at the time the ABA

providers did not know how to continue the programme with a child with

seizures, etc.

Although we stopped the programme, I tried to maintain what he had done

but this became impossible. I've tried hard to get him to do simple

imitations since but he will not respond not even to any rewards.

But he is much more fascinated if I copy any of his actions or sounds,

though this is also much more dependent on what sort of seizure activity

may be going on. When he is responsive to my copying him, he gives me

the most amazing eye contact and attention (bless him!!)

I know that a lot of these problems are caused by his seizures but I

also feel there must be some way to get him to learn (at least some very

basic things), I continue to have hope that one day I will find a way

through....

emily x

> > >

> > > http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com

> > >

> > > My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all

human

> > communication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can

help

> > them to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables

him

> > to co-regulate their interaction.

> > >

> > > Zoe

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , i totally agree with bbrowne, Harry is going to be 6 next month and he cannot write/colour in very well, he always seems like he is bored with these tasks and would rather do word to picture matching (his favourite) as he is good at this, his "boredom" is due to the fact that he cannot do it well and so therefore doesn't enjoy it, at these times i use high re-enforcers to motivate him to try, i work on it only in short bursts as any longer would be wasting time as his attention span with these "boring" tasks is very little, so i am trying to build on this now by using a timer with an alarm, i started off at a minute and am increasing the time slowly, when the time goes off he gets his re-enforcer, which happens to be a small piece of fruit leather(shop bought as i don't have a dehydrator) the fruit leathers then get put away as with the other tasks he enjoys so has a huge container full of squidgy toys (which he loves) to choose from and at the end of the session they get put away until the next day, i definitely think you need to do what bbrowne suggested and go back to the beginning, trying different re-enforcers and only bringing these out when teaching as they have more of an impact.

Good luck

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: bbrowne123@...Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 11:25:29 +0000Subject: Re: OT: How to help kids with autism communicate like typical kids

Hi all kids WANT to learn and it sounds like his 'boredom' may really be due to his not having his skills honed up to complete the task you are asking. Have you thought of going back and filling in the gaps he may have missed. Even though he is 16 it sounds like he has holes to fill.My boy is 8 now but acts like a 2 year old at times - we are going back to the beginning with him because he fooled us (i wanted to be fooled??) into thinking he was more capable than he really is when in fact he has not learned all he needed to move forward on all levels. this is no biggie for you, unless you want it to be - going back to the 'drawing board' so to speak might help him more than you could ever imagine - dont let fact he is 16 put you off. > > > >> > > > http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com> > > >> > > > My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all> human> > > communication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can> help> > > them to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables> him> > > to co-regulate their interaction.> > > >> > > > Zoe> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I'm confused, BB, we ALWAYS look at missing skills or coping strategies when undertaking a functional analysis, that is the first thing that should be considered when looking at a behaviour, does the child have the skills to cope with the demands (either of the environment or the of the situation).  I can't imagine behavioural analysis that would ignore this aspect of a child.   

 

Recently we had acting out on the playground, immediately we did a functional analysis and determined that this new behaviour was due to the new equipment that my son didn't know how to use and his friends were all using it and he was clearly angry at this new development.  So rather than enforce any punishment (and in fact, we had to explain the situation to the teacher so that she wouldn't punish with time off play time) we focused on building the skills that were needed so that he could take part.  He responded beautifully and the angry behaviour stopped immediately so the analysis was correct.

 

If there is functional analysis that is being taught that ignores the skill level and or coping abilities of the child, then  you are right, the analysis is failing the child terribly.  I'm so sad to hear that has been what has been conveyed. 

 

Nonetheless, it seems that RDI has some really really amazing things to teach us all.  I am enjoying hearing about it and seeing the videos.  It's really positive and worthwhile stuff. 

Darla

 

I found this website on Zoe's blog (which by the way is FABULOSO!!WELL holy crapola, i watched these short videos of Ross Greene (author of the Explosive Child) and his 'take' on kids and motivation.

All the videos here are a must watch and totaly changed my mind about ABA, functional analysis, etc : http://www.livesinthebalance.org/what-is-collaborative-problem-solving-cps

What he says is kids WANT WANT WANT to do well, they want to do well by default - ALWAYS. If they arent doing something, its usually and probably always, because they can't, they dont know how, or something else is stopping them.

So if you take a 'functional analysis' of a 'problem' behaviour, such as throwing dirt or sand, we are actually looking at this 'behaviour' to see how it works (functions) for the child. He says we are doing this half arsed that really the child is throwing the sand because he CANT do what is asked. The throwing of the sand CANNOT be analysed functionally because it is pure reaction to not being able to keep on task.

So what do we do with our lovely ed psychs who come in and determine functionality? We reward or negatively reward 'behaviours' like these and further embed them. We actually miss the forest for trees here. He says instead of looking for functionality in the childs inability to carry out a task, we should be working on what the child has MISSED, on what the child SIMPLY cannot DO!

Gosh, am i a complete idiot for falling for ABA speak for so long? This just makes so much sense. all his videos are well worth read - i bought the book ages ago and am reading it again.Go back to your 6 year old and 16 year old and my 8 year old (as of today arggh where does time go) and learn what he missed. Easy peasy. If your child is 16 or 40 and if they 'bored' they may well be 'bored' with having been asked over and over to do a task which they are not equipped to do.

make sense? > > > > >> > > > > http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com> > > > >

> > > > > My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all> > human> > > > communication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can> > help

> > > > them to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables> > him> > > > to co-regulate their interaction.> > > > >> > > > > Zoe

> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I agree Darla, our ABA program takes each task and breaks it down into manageable pieces, that way there is no missing pieces, i thought this was why ABA is so good because of that reason.

x

To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: rexel4@...Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 15:23:44 +0000Subject: Re: Re: OT: How to help kids with autism communicate like typical kids

I'm confused, BB, we ALWAYS look at missing skills or coping strategies when undertaking a functional analysis, that is the first thing that should be considered when looking at a behaviour, does the child have the skills to cope with the demands (either of the environment or the of the situation). I can't imagine behavioural analysis that would ignore this aspect of a child.

Recently we had acting out on the playground, immediately we did a functional analysis and determined that this new behaviour was due to the new equipment that my son didn't know how to use and his friends were all using it and he was clearly angry at this new development. So rather than enforce any punishment (and in fact, we had to explain the situation to the teacher so that she wouldn't punish with time off play time) we focused on building the skills that were needed so that he could take part. He responded beautifully and the angry behaviour stopped immediately so the analysis was correct.

If there is functional analysis that is being taught that ignores the skill level and or coping abilities of the child, then you are right, the analysis is failing the child terribly. I'm so sad to hear that has been what has been conveyed.

Nonetheless, it seems that RDI has some really really amazing things to teach us all. I am enjoying hearing about it and seeing the videos. It's really positive and worthwhile stuff.

Darla

I found this website on Zoe's blog (which by the way is FABULOSO!!WELL holy crapola, i watched these short videos of Ross Greene (author of the Explosive Child) and his 'take' on kids and motivation.All the videos here are a must watch and totaly changed my mind about ABA, functional analysis, etc : http://www.livesinthebalance.org/what-is-collaborative-problem-solving-cpsWhat he says is kids WANT WANT WANT to do well, they want to do well by default - ALWAYS. If they arent doing something, its usually and probably always, because they can't, they dont know how, or something else is stopping them.So if you take a 'functional analysis' of a 'problem' behaviour, such as throwing dirt or sand, we are actually looking at this 'behaviour' to see how it works (functions) for the child. He says we are doing this half arsed that really the child is throwing the sand because he CANT do what is asked. The throwing of the sand CANNOT be analysed functionally because it is pure reaction to not being able to keep on task. So what do we do with our lovely ed psychs who come in and determine functionality? We reward or negatively reward 'behaviours' like these and further embed them. We actually miss the forest for trees here. He says instead of looking for functionality in the childs inability to carry out a task, we should be working on what the child has MISSED, on what the child SIMPLY cannot DO!Gosh, am i a complete idiot for falling for ABA speak for so long? This just makes so much sense. all his videos are well worth read - i bought the book ages ago and am reading it again.Go back to your 6 year old and 16 year old and my 8 year old (as of today arggh where does time go) and learn what he missed. Easy peasy. If your child is 16 or 40 and if they 'bored' they may well be 'bored' with having been asked over and over to do a task which they are not equipped to do. make sense? > > > > >> > > > > http://notnigellanotjamie.blogspot.com> > > > >> > > > > My latest blog post is about co-regulation as the basis for all> > human> > > > communication. Our kids with autism don't co-regulate, but we can> > help> > > > them to. Watch the footage of a Mum with her son and how she enables> > him> > > > to co-regulate their interaction.> > > > >> > > > > Zoe> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>