Re: New goat owner questions

[Guest guest]

What you are doing is f ine, she has been stressed by the move and also what kind of lactaion did she have the year before. Sometimes animals that have only been milked for a short itme and then dried up will do the same the next year. What did the previous owner feed? If she went from a high protien dairy ration to your ration (which sounds great) her body may not function in the same way. The bugs need to learn to eat new food. Also I have heard that the forage bugs take alot longer to learn to eat new forage and that could be affecting her as well. Also there are some lines of NUbians that have very short lactations. We have had several of those in the past. There is probably some reason that she was sold. People NEVER sell their best animals!

Rhonda in NY milking 37 goats.

New goat owner questions

Hi All this is my first time raising goats. I just bought one on saturday that is in milk. She is a 2 yr old nubian. She was bought from a small artisinal cheese/dairy place in Grants Pass Oregon. Mamma something or other farms. if anyone knows of the place please email me off list i would like to see if they still have her papers as the lady i just bought her from never got any.On to the reduction question. I realize that switching to new home can cause a temporary reduction. I am wondering how long that this usually takes. She went from about 1 cup shy to about 3 cups since Saturday. I am milking her on schedule like clock work. This is her second freshening and she freshened about 3 months ago. Was nursing 3 bucks up until a couple weeks before i bought her. After weaning the family milked her 2 times daily 8/8 and was filling 2 qrt jars to brim each time. I have yet to fill one. I am milking and bumping until there really is no milk, the teats are shriveled looking and not refilling, etc. I assume that this is the sign that she is def. done with her milking session.Feed wise i have her on the same food which was whole grains - rolled oats, barley, BOSS, peas, pellets, wheat grains, corn, a bit of molasses, etc. I am giving her alfalfa pellets at feeding and trying to rem. to offer her 16 ounces during day a couple times a day. Offering her as much as she wants during milking. I have 2 other goats - nigerians that are not in milk and i thought leaving free choice Alfalfa for those not in milk was bad for them? If not then i will elave free choice alfalfa pellets as well. The feeder is filled a couple times daily - when almost out of orchard hay grass. I have not been measuring out her food each feeding but i use 16 ounce yogurt containers to scoop it out with and add to her stanchion trough. So i know she is getting it full at least 2 times of both alfalfa pellets and 2 of the feed. I add more if she runs out of that but she rarely eats a 3rd or 4th offering of it.I keep free choice feeders in the barn with loose minerals, kelp (only a few times a week though), baking soda, and redmonds animal conditoner salt/minerals. Water we keep filled and add some raw ACV to it. I would like to add soemthing for probiotics and am wondering what i can use - kefir, yogurt, actual goat probiotics? I read one site saying that the human ferments do not have the array that are specific to goats.She is pretty skinny compared to my nigerians they are roundish in the body. Can see spine a bit but that is it. This gal you can see her ribs, her spine, and she has indentions around the hip/sides. Is this noormal? The lady i bought her from had her 1 yr and was new to goats as well and i am thinking she is emaciated looking but i have seen others peoples cows etc. and it seems some dairy breeds look like this even though they are not. What is normal looking for a Nubian?I would like to keep a whole grain mix for feed can someone share a book or links to a full recipe for feed using whole grains and any supplements i may need to use since i am not using a processed pellet?TIAOregon

[Guest guest]

Thanks Rhonda for replying.

Stressed wise i assume she is somewhat but she did not act like my other 2 goats

did when i brought them home. One refused to eat or drink anything for a week.

She would squat to pee and nothing was coming out. She had me scared for

awhile. They both would try to hide if you were near, dodge petting. This girl

is very opposite she wants you to pet her. Comes right up to you, stands beside

you, nudges you, loves to eat, etc. from the second we unloaded her she liked

the attention. Stress was not visible with her like the other 2.

I realize now by your response and reading my email over i forgot to add that

the farm is where this family got her from to begin with. So i did not buy her

straight from the cheese making farm. But froma family. I am trying to tack

down the farm because they claimed she could be registered. They were indeed

selling of their least first yr fresheners. This family lives way out on a

foresty hill top and did not want to deal with selling raw milk as their place

is hard to find, very steep incline, on 100 secluded acres, so most people would

not want to drive that far on rought terrain in their city cars and she only

went into town 1 time a week and we can't sell or transport off farm in our

state.

She was actually planning on drying her off, at least partially. They bought

their land/farm about 1 yr ago goats were first farm purchase. No goat keeping

experience, etc. They seemed extremely honest about everything. She said the

main reason was because their plan was to just keep her until the other 2 mini

nubis they bought for their daughters we raised, red, and were in milk. They

don't drink more than a couple gallons each week. She thought she would make

cheese with the extra milk but no one else is eating it but her and she is tired

of millking and paying for feed for full Nubi just to feed most of it to the

chickens. She is getting the land worked, building stuff, and prefer not to

milk, make cheese, etc. as it is all more work than she expected starting from

scratch, just a house on the proerpty - no barns, etc. animals all live in

temp. hoop house barns.

She had been wanting to dry her off but since she was trying to sell her she

kept her in milk for whoever wanted her. When i contacted her she was just

starting to milk her 1 time daily - 1 night into it. As she had her on

craigslist for 1 month with no responses. She kept milking her 2 times day for

me until i made up my mind if i was buying her not. I was leery of it. Sounded

too good to be true, why would you have a goat in milk 1 gallon a day, and want

to sell it and no papers = harder for me to sell if it does nto work out.

When she told her husband that she might be sold he replied " But she is my

favorite! " . Realizing how much they really like her....but they agreed they

could not make their daughters sell their minis and they need to lower feed

cost, and dry her off cause too much milk, no time to make cheese, yogurt, etc.

So just sell he to someone who needs the milk. She did email me the next day

(we live about 2 hours away) and said while she had no reason to think it would

not work out, if it did not, she spoke to her husband and they agree they would

like to have her back and asked us to contact them if we were not keeping her.

So she really was their best milker considering her comeptition was 2 first yr

freshening minis that are only producing a couple qrts .

Feed - She gave me a gallon bag of feed to mix with mine and it was pretty much

the same exact stuff except for pellets in it. I saw the whole and rolled

grains, peas, BOSS, and asked if she mixed her own recipe she said no it came

like that. This goat looked evn more underfed than now, her goat friend that

she relies on for assistance, said to give her Equine feed for a while to get

weight on her and so that is what she bought and it had the same stuff i was

mixing at home to feed to my nigerians and chickens (i feed their fish meal

separately). I assume the Equine feed is higher in something, not sure if it is

protein or fat. Which would need to be upped for an underweight goat?

Can i put natural dessicated coconut in her feed? Was wondering if it would

help put some weight on her.

>

> What you are doing is f ine, she has been stressed by the move and also what

kind of lactaion did she have the year before. Sometimes animals that have only

been milked for a short itme and then dried up will do the same the next year.

What did the previous owner feed? If she went from a high protien dairy ration

to your ration (which sounds great) her body may not function in the same way.

The bugs need to learn to eat new food. Also I have heard that the forage bugs

take alot longer to learn to eat new forage and that could be affecting her as

well. Also there are some lines of NUbians that have very short lactations. We

have had several of those in the past. There is probably some reason that she

was sold. People NEVER sell their best animals!

>

> Rhonda in NY milking 37 goats.

> New goat owner questions

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe worms.

Also, my girls were looking bad with rough coats and I read where people said

that could be a sign of copper deficiency. One suggested mineral was Right Now

Onyx. I have had it about 3 weeks now and the girls look great! Nice shiny coats

and they are keeping weight on better.

Candy

[Guest guest]

I am using loose minerals specifically for goats plus kelp and another mineral

conditioner. not sure if she is eating all of them. I have been wondering if i

should put some of them all in her next milking session feed?

She looks like she has put weight on since we got her so i am hoping she

continues. The family i bought her from did not realize they needed minerals,

or that she needed to provide more for them besides just hay and the browse on

porperty once in milk, etc. Sounded like she was unsure of how to care for her

dietarily. I will look into worming her.

>

> Maybe worms.

>

> Also, my girls were looking bad with rough coats and I read where people said

that could be a sign of copper deficiency. One suggested mineral was Right Now

Onyx. I have had it about 3 weeks now and the girls look great! Nice shiny coats

and they are keeping weight on better.

>

> Candy

>

[Guest guest]

Oh i also wanted to know if stoll wise this indicates worms? Her stools at the

other place cycled back and forth pellets then clumpy mushed together looking.

After the first day or 2 here she has normalized to the pellets more, may even

be pellets only, has not been long enough to see if she has for sure changed,

but so far we have seen only pellets for 2 days now.

I am wondering also about any of the vitamin shots, if the woman did not give

any of those to her during her pregnancy or shortly after birthing should i give

her a Selenium and B shot? Our area of Oregon i have read is notorious for

being low in Selenium and most of our hays come from the other side of the

mountain where their hays have higher levels. Except i try to buy more local

and found a farm selling orcahrd hay. Looked super great like the other stuff,

but prob. will be low in selenium like i have read.

Is the mineral supps i give free hcoice enough and will eventually cover this or

should i be doing something ot make up the debt the last owners put her in?

TIA

> >

> > Maybe worms.

> >

> > Also, my girls were looking bad with rough coats and I read where people

said that could be a sign of copper deficiency. One suggested mineral was Right

Now Onyx. I have had it about 3 weeks now and the girls look great! Nice shiny

coats and they are keeping weight on better.

> >

> > Candy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There are many more knowledgeable people here than me, but personally I would be

careful about how many new things you give her at once. Too many changes to her

system could be bad as well. I would take some of this slowly. Except for

checking for worms.

Just my opinion.

Candy

[Guest guest]

Hey - I am in south Ashland. I use the Redmonds Selenium 90 - you can get

it at the Ashland Grange - as well as free choice kelp - My girls like the

Acadian Brand that they carry at the grange - it is OMRI certified and

sustainably harvested - and I also put out copper sulfate free choice which is

available at the Grange Grain Elevator out in Central Point. You can draw blood

on her and have her selenium levels checked if you ant or just give a couple

cc's of BoSe now if you are sure she didnt get any before kidding. I dont

recall what her breed is but my nubian girls do well on just a scoop of sprouted

organic barley - I get my barley from Azure Standard and there is a drop in

Central Point - and some regular organic sunflower seeds - great source of

selenium and it boosts butterfat. Feel free to contact me off list if I can be

of any help to you.

aliza

Some Kinda Wonderful Farm

Ashland, Oregon

> > >

> > > Maybe worms.

> > >

> > > Also, my girls were looking bad with rough coats and I read where people

said that could be a sign of copper deficiency. One suggested mineral was Right

Now Onyx. I have had it about 3 weeks now and the girls look great! Nice shiny

coats and they are keeping weight on better.

> > >

> > > Candy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All i just heard back from the pervious owner and she said that she never

gave milk Nubian any B or Selenium shots before breeding nor after and that she

only started feeding her goat minerals late April. She had her pretty much a yr

by the time i bought her a week ago.

So i am wondering if she should get these supplements now - is there a combo

shot?

If she was going that long on mostly browse, no minerals, or grains until

recently, with 3 bucks on ehr up until they were 3 months old, etc. would her

copper be depleted enough that i should supplement it for a while? As posted

before i giver her loose minerals, kelp, redmonds animal conditioner/salt, free

choice.

She is now down to 4/4.5 cups of milk i really don't want her to dry up isn't

there anything i can do to help her stay in milk?

Previous owner said that she stayed in milk up until a couple months into being

pregnant then she dried her off. So she apparently was not a dry up early kind

of goat.

TIA

[Guest guest]

I raise a small herd of Nubian dairy goats, and I remember when I bought my first doe the previous owner mentioned that when a doe is moved from one farm to another to expect a decrease in milk production for the duration of her lactation. The doe that I purchased was dry, but she produced very little milk during her first lactation on my farm, and I bred her after she I got her. After your doe adjusts to her new surroundings, she should start producing more milk, although you may need to wait for her next lactation to notice the difference.

I also thought that I would mention what I do with my goats and cows when their milk production is down and I want them to produce more milk. (I milk by hand, so this will only work if you do, too.) After the doe is completely milked out, I continue milking her for a bit. (I usually do something like 50 or 100 extra squirts per quarter.) I started doing this on the theory that when the kids are hungry for more milk than the doe is producing, they nurse her dry and then some, and the doe cooperates by producing more milk to meet the demand. I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that it worked, although it usually takes two or three weeks before I start seeing a noticable difference.

~Naomi FournierEnderby, British Columbia, CanadaBirdsong Farm http://naomisbirdsongfarm.webs.com/Enderby WAPF Chapter http://enderbywap.webs.com/

To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 7:13:15 PMSubject: Re: New goat owner questions

Hi All i just heard back from the pervious owner and she said that she never gave milk Nubian any B or Selenium shots before breeding nor after and that she only started feeding her goat minerals late April. She had her pretty much a yr by the time i bought her a week ago. So i am wondering if she should get these supplements now - is there a combo shot? If she was going that long on mostly browse, no minerals, or grains until recently, with 3 bucks on ehr up until they were 3 months old, etc. would her copper be depleted enough that i should supplement it for a while? As posted before i giver her loose minerals, kelp, redmonds animal conditioner/salt, free choice.She is now down to 4/4.5 cups of milk i really don't want her to dry up isn't there anything i can do to help her stay in milk? Previous owner said that she stayed in milk up until a couple months into being pregnant then she dried her off. So she apparently

was not a dry up early kind of goat.TIA

[Guest guest]

Thanks Naomi i def. new to expect some milk loss, but not half and other

breeders here said after they adjust it comes back up.

You def. did answer one of the questions we have had/asked. I too figured more

attempts at milk even when she is done would signal to her body make more. We

do milk by hand and so we will continue to milk her like you mentioned, as we

have been doing that but was unsure if that would be considered more stress by

her.

I was strapping her foot down cause of kicking. I milked with out it yesterday

and each time she kicked i noticed that even though she was begining to stop -

end of milking, the kicking seemed to make her milk a bit more with out me

having to bump or massage. So i am wondering if the strapped legs realy bother

her and if the act of kicking sort of produces the milk a bit ... a surge of

hormones/excitement in her bdoy? Also when she is romping around with the other

2 goats you can see teats balloon back up some after i just milked her dry. Was

doing what you described - dry milking and everything and teats pretty much

stay shriveled. But as soon as the romping began which was immediatly upon me

putting her back in the barn, they looked full again.

So the feelings of fighting seem to activate more milk. Which i had not known

until seeing it in her.

Also my 1 yr old nigerian keeps going after milking Nubis teats. I am wondering

if that would affect production - maybe she is nursing on the Nubian LOL.

>

> I raise a small herd of Nubian dairy goats, and I remember when I bought my

first doe the previous owner mentioned that when a doe is moved from one farm to

another to expect a decrease in milk production for the duration of her

lactation. The doe that I  

> I also thought that I would mention what I do with my goats and cows when

their milk production is down and I want them to produce more milk. (I milk by

hand, so this will only work if you do, too.) After the doe is completely milked

out, I continue milking her for a bit. (I

[Guest guest]

She totally could be - can you separate them - stock panel wont work

because the nigie could nurse through the panel. That would answer that

question...

aliza

> >

> > I raise a small herd of Nubian dairy goats, and I remember when I bought my

first doe the previous owner mentioned that when a doe is moved from one farm to

another to expect a decrease in milk production for the duration of her

lactation. The doe that I  

> > I also thought that I would mention what I do with my goats and cows when

their milk production is down and I want them to produce more milk. (I milk by

hand, so this will only work if you do, too.) After the doe is completely milked

out, I continue milking her for a bit. (I

>

[Guest guest]

We see the drop in production on new animals also. That is why I like to buy goats late lactation and then breed them here. By the time they enter the next lactation they are like old pros.Have any goats for sale Naomi? Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.‎"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."Kurtis Stavenwww.wildthingorganics.ca I raise a small herd of Nubian dairy goats, and I remember when I bought my first doe the previous owner mentioned that when a doe is moved from one farm to another to expect a decrease in milk production for the duration of her lactation. The doe that I purchased was dry, but she produced very little milk during her first lactation on my farm, and I bred her after she I got her. After your doe adjusts to her new surroundings, she should start producing more milk, although you may need to wait for her next lactation to notice the difference. I also thought that I would mention what I do with my goats and cows when their milk production is down and I want them to produce more milk. (I milk by hand, so this will only work if you do, too.) After the doe is completely milked out, I continue milking her for a bit. (I usually do something like 50 or 100 extra squirts per quarter.) I started doing this on the theory that when the kids are hungry for more milk than the doe is producing, they nurse her dry and then some, and the doe cooperates by producing more milk to meet the demand. I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that it worked, although it usually takes two or three weeks before I start seeing a noticable difference. ~Naomi FournierEnderby, British Columbia, CanadaBirdsong Farm http://naomisbirdsongfarm.webs.com/Enderby WAPF Chapter http://enderbywap.webs.com/ To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 7:13:15 PMSubject: Re: New goat owner questions Hi All i just heard back from the pervious owner and she said that she never gave milk Nubian any B or Selenium shots before breeding nor after and that she only started feeding her goat minerals late April. She had her pretty much a yr by the time i bought her a week ago. So i am wondering if she should get these supplements now - is there a combo shot? If she was going that long on mostly browse, no minerals, or grains until recently, with 3 bucks on ehr up until they were 3 months old, etc. would her copper be depleted enough that i should supplement it for a while? As posted before i giver her loose minerals, kelp, redmonds animal conditioner/salt, free choice.She is now down to 4/4.5 cups of milk i really don't want her to dry up isn't there anything i can do to help her stay in milk? Previous owner said that she stayed in milk up until a couple months into being pregnant then she dried her off. So she apparently was not a dry up early kind of goat.TIA

[Guest guest]

Sorry - no goats for sale this year. Maybe next year though.

~Naomi FournierEnderby, British Columbia, CanadaBirdsong Farm http://naomisbirdsongfarm.webs.com/Enderby WAPF Chapter http://enderbywap.webs.com/

To: RawDairy Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:26:06 PMSubject: Re: Re: New goat owner questions

We see the drop in production on new animals also. That is why I like to buy goats late lactation and then breed them here. By the time they enter the next lactation they are like old pros.

Have any goats for sale Naomi?

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

‎"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."

Kurtis Staven

www.wildthingorganics.ca

I raise a small herd of Nubian dairy goats, and I remember when I bought my first doe the previous owner mentioned that when a doe is moved from one farm to another to expect a decrease in milk production for the duration of her lactation. The doe that I purchased was dry, but she produced very little milk during her first lactation on my farm, and I bred her after she I got her. After your doe adjusts to her new surroundings, she should start producing more milk, although you may need to wait for her next lactation to notice the difference.

I also thought that I would mention what I do with my goats and cows when their milk production is down and I want them to produce more milk. (I milk by hand, so this will only work if you do, too.) After the doe is completely milked out, I continue milking her for a bit. (I usually do something like 50 or 100 extra squirts per quarter.) I started doing this on the theory that when the kids are hungry for more milk than the doe is producing, they nurse her dry and then some, and the doe cooperates by producing more milk to meet the demand. I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that it worked, although it usually takes two or three weeks before I start seeing a noticable difference.

~Naomi FournierEnderby, British Columbia, CanadaBirdsong Farm http://naomisbirdsongfarm.webs.com/Enderby WAPF Chapter http://enderbywap.webs.com/

To: RawDairy Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 7:13:15 PMSubject: Re: New goat owner questions

Hi All i just heard back from the pervious owner and she said that she never gave milk Nubian any B or Selenium shots before breeding nor after and that she only started feeding her goat minerals late April. She had her pretty much a yr by the time i bought her a week ago. So i am wondering if she should get these supplements now - is there a combo shot? If she was going that long on mostly browse, no minerals, or grains until recently, with 3 bucks on ehr up until they were 3 months old, etc. would her copper be depleted enough that i should supplement it for a while? As posted before i giver her loose minerals, kelp, redmonds animal conditioner/salt, free choice.She is now down to 4/4.5 cups of milk i really don't want her to dry up isn't there anything i can do to help her stay in milk? Previous owner said that she stayed in milk up until a couple months into being pregnant then she dried her off. So she apparently

was not a dry up early kind of goat.TIA