Non-compliance, was: Story in Telegraph

[Guest guest]

only musing here, but where is the line between non-compliance and lack

of discipline? how much of it is necessary to function, ie be a part of

surrounding without breaking 'laws' (we are talking kids here so hard to

talk about what behaviour is 'within law'). how much imposed discipline

is good discipline, without clipping someone's personality?

having a hard time telling what is what in my son's behaviour, how much

of the non-compliant side is down to autism? mental disturbance? simply

his free-spirited character?

natasa x

>

> Of course children

> > can learn without being compliant, any child with or without an ASD.

>

>

> In many years of teaching, over and over again it was my kids who

> were not compliant who learned the most. Not the few genuinely

> mentally disturbed kids who acted out constantly, but the kids who

> would argue with me, not take what I said at face value, who tried

> always to change things up. God I loved those kids. The very

> compliant kids (generally sweet and scared girls) I felt great

> empathy for and tried to give them as much help as possible in

> becoming non-compliant. It was a very hard habit to break in them,

> but each time I did I felt like I had taught them one of the most

> important things I ever possibly could. You know, a bit more

> significant than the rhyme scheme of a sonnet, let's say ;-)

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Apparently the majority of people who pass Grade 8 piano are girls

(sweet, assiduous girls). The music students are about half and half,

the overwhelming majority of concert pianists are male (committed,

stroppy, centre-stage, etc). Different personalities " fit " at different

life stages. Same pattern in art school and I suspect in lots of life.

Being extraordinarily good at something doesn't necessarily mean being

" good " at it earlier on

xx Sally

natasa778 wrote:

>

> only musing here, but where is the line between non-compliance and lack

> of discipline? how much of it is necessary to function, ie be a part of

> surrounding without breaking 'laws' (we are talking kids here so hard to

> talk about what behaviour is 'within law'). how much imposed discipline

> is good discipline, without clipping someone's personality?

>

> having a hard time telling what is what in my son's behaviour, how much

> of the non-compliant side is down to autism? mental disturbance? simply

> his free-spirited character?

>

> natasa x

>

>

> >

> > Of course children

> > > can learn without being compliant, any child with or without an ASD.

> >

> >

> > In many years of teaching, over and over again it was my kids who

> > were not compliant who learned the most. Not the few genuinely

> > mentally disturbed kids who acted out constantly, but the kids who

> > would argue with me, not take what I said at face value, who tried

> > always to change things up. God I loved those kids. The very

> > compliant kids (generally sweet and scared girls) I felt great

> > empathy for and tried to give them as much help as possible in

> > becoming non-compliant. It was a very hard habit to break in them,

> > but each time I did I felt like I had taught them one of the most

> > important things I ever possibly could. You know, a bit more

> > significant than the rhyme scheme of a sonnet, let's say ;-)

> >

> > Anita

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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09:39

>

[Guest guest]

Actually is it works extremely well with , if he resists teeth cleaning, I say OK no teeth, all gone, immediately he says "No, teed" and has them brushed, the same with food, going to school, you name it, the minute he thinks something has been taken away he is after it and better controlled than me pushing and insisting because it has now become his choice!

Vicky

[Guest guest]

>

> only musing here, but where is the line between non-compliance and

lack of discipline? how much of it is necessary to function, ie be a

part of surrounding without breaking 'laws' (we are talking kids here

so hard to talk about what behaviour is 'within law'). how much

imposed discipline is good discipline, without clipping someone's

personality?

>

> having a hard time telling what is what in my son's behaviour, how

much of the non-compliant side is down to autism? mental disturbance?

simply his free-spirited character?

* Multicolored Mayhem by Jacqui talks about parenting the many

colours and shades of autism. She mentions that if the child is doing

something that doesnt hurt someone else or themselves then let them do

it. She allows her kids to spin and squeal for short periods in safe

places.

Preventing behaviour is another thing, moving objects so they arent

knocked over, getting rid of dangerous plants in the house and garden,

locking the kitchen etc.

PDA (pathological demand avoidance when the more you tell someone to

do something the less they do it) i know one parent who works on

reverse physcology. Instead of saying " eat your dinner " she says " dont

eat that its mums " and it works.

ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) and a very uncommon form of ADHD

(which can involve criminal behaviour) would make parenting harder.

is

>

> natasa x

[Guest guest]

third par -- Edith is like that. Roundabout is the way forward for her.

Do-this type pressure doesn't work at all.

xx Sally

atrekkie22 wrote:

>

>

> >

> > only musing here, but where is the line between non-compliance and

> lack of discipline? how much of it is necessary to function, ie be a

> part of surrounding without breaking 'laws' (we are talking kids here

> so hard to talk about what behaviour is 'within law'). how much

> imposed discipline is good discipline, without clipping someone's

> personality?

> >

> > having a hard time telling what is what in my son's behaviour, how

> much of the non-compliant side is down to autism? mental disturbance?

> simply his free-spirited character?

>

> * Multicolored Mayhem by Jacqui talks about parenting the many

> colours and shades of autism. She mentions that if the child is doing

> something that doesnt hurt someone else or themselves then let them do

> it. She allows her kids to spin and squeal for short periods in safe

> places.

>

> Preventing behaviour is another thing, moving objects so they arent

> knocked over, getting rid of dangerous plants in the house and garden,

> locking the kitchen etc.

>

> PDA (pathological demand avoidance when the more you tell someone to

> do something the less they do it) i know one parent who works on

> reverse physcology. Instead of saying " eat your dinner " she says " dont

> eat that its mums " and it works.

>

> ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) and a very uncommon form of ADHD

> (which can involve criminal behaviour) would make parenting harder.

>

> is

> >

> > natasa x

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 27/04/2008

09:39

>

[Guest guest]

That's really funny, !

Margaret

i know one parent who works on

> reverse physcology. Instead of saying " eat your dinner " she says " dont

> eat that its mums " and it works.

>

> is

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> only musing here, but where is the line between non-compliance and

lack

> of discipline?

When I think of compliance, I'm thinking of obedience and

submission. When I think of non-compliance, I don't mean that

someone is just doing whatever pleases them or pops into their

head. Complying *can* mean being doing what poeple hope you will do

without being submissive. In my class for example, kids were

extraordinairly well behaved for the most part (better than I was

when I was their age). But, and this is the important part,

they " complied " because they understood why it was important to.

You know, it's important not to scream in class or write on desks

because that really is unfair to other people. My classes were very

displined, but I rarely had to force people to comply.

So, I personally think that discipline comes from inside. Compliance

from outside. Of course, when we're very young we don't have all

that it takes to have self-discipline. Throw in an ASD and you have

even more hurdles to self-discipline.

My point is that I don't want to raise a compliant kid, ASD or not.

I want a kid who thinks things through and then comes to the

conclusion that exercising a bit of self-discipline is a good thing

in many situations. I also want a kid who can think things through

and decide to go totally his/her own way if that's where the thinking

leads (great examples being, as in Rene's post, margarine and

vaccines!) So, even for my ASD son, I have the long term goal of

self-discipline. Much, much harder to think about how to get to

that goal, but still my goal.

Anita

[Guest guest]

I am totally with you here, Anita. I don't want to raise a complaint

kid. I always wondered how some parents reconciled their drive to

have their kids obey their every order, no questions ever asked, but

then when they reached adolescence, started hoping that their kid

could resist the " authority " of the peer group, and reject dangerous

things like drugs.

I'm sometimes embarrassed and feel like I look like a permissive

parent when my son doesn't rush to obey me, like some of the children

I see do with their parents, and I keep having to remind myself that

obedience and compliance may be easier for grownups when the children

are little, but compliant adults often don't enrich the world as much

as they fill it up, IYKWIM.

> When I think of compliance, I'm thinking of obedience and

> submission. When I think of non-compliance, I don't mean that

> someone is just doing whatever pleases them or pops into their

> head. Complying *can* mean being doing what poeple hope you will do

> without being submissive. In my class for example, kids were

> extraordinairly well behaved for the most part (better than I was

> when I was their age). But, and this is the important part,

> they " complied " because they understood why it was important to.

> You know, it's important not to scream in class or write on desks

> because that really is unfair to other people. My classes were very

> displined, but I rarely had to force people to comply.

>

> So, I personally think that discipline comes from inside. Compliance

> from outside. Of course, when we're very young we don't have all

> that it takes to have self-discipline. Throw in an ASD and you have

> even more hurdles to self-discipline.

>

> My point is that I don't want to raise a compliant kid, ASD or not.

> I want a kid who thinks things through and then comes to the

> conclusion that exercising a bit of self-discipline is a good thing

> in many situations. I also want a kid who can think things through

> and decide to go totally his/her own way if that's where the thinking

> leads (great examples being, as in Rene's post, margarine and

> vaccines!) So, even for my ASD son, I have the long term goal of

> self-discipline. Much, much harder to think about how to get to

> that goal, but still my goal.

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Apparently the kids who get abducted are the quiet, compliant ones --

stranger says " Your Mummy told me to come and collect you. Get in " . They

do.

Our gym club leading instructor has just been revealed (and jailed) as a

paedophile. The 15-year-old boy he chose was the quiet, submissive one.

We are in the inner-city. Our streets are full of street-wise kids. He

didn't choose those

xx Sally

zpapacarroll wrote:

>

>

> I am totally with you here, Anita. I don't want to raise a complaint

> kid. I always wondered how some parents reconciled their drive to

> have their kids obey their every order, no questions ever asked, but

> then when they reached adolescence, started hoping that their kid

> could resist the " authority " of the peer group, and reject dangerous

> things like drugs.

>

> I'm sometimes embarrassed and feel like I look like a permissive

> parent when my son doesn't rush to obey me, like some of the children

> I see do with their parents, and I keep having to remind myself that

> obedience and compliance may be easier for grownups when the children

> are little, but compliant adults often don't enrich the world as much

> as they fill it up, IYKWIM.

>

>

>

> > When I think of compliance, I'm thinking of obedience and

> > submission. When I think of non-compliance, I don't mean that

> > someone is just doing whatever pleases them or pops into their

> > head. Complying *can* mean being doing what poeple hope you will do

> > without being submissive. In my class for example, kids were

> > extraordinairly well behaved for the most part (better than I was

> > when I was their age). But, and this is the important part,

> > they " complied " because they understood why it was important to.

> > You know, it's important not to scream in class or write on desks

> > because that really is unfair to other people. My classes were very

> > displined, but I rarely had to force people to comply.

> >

> > So, I personally think that discipline comes from inside. Compliance

> > from outside. Of course, when we're very young we don't have all

> > that it takes to have self-discipline. Throw in an ASD and you have

> > even more hurdles to self-discipline.

> >

> > My point is that I don't want to raise a compliant kid, ASD or not.

> > I want a kid who thinks things through and then comes to the

> > conclusion that exercising a bit of self-discipline is a good thing

> > in many situations. I also want a kid who can think things through

> > and decide to go totally his/her own way if that's where the thinking

> > leads (great examples being, as in Rene's post, margarine and

> > vaccines!) So, even for my ASD son, I have the long term goal of

> > self-discipline. Much, much harder to think about how to get to

> > that goal, but still my goal.

> >

> > Anita

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1400 - Release Date: 27/04/2008

09:39

>