Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 HI MargaretMight signify real breathing issues for him as he begins another growth period... is he going to sleep and then waking a little later and then going to sleep and then waking a little later..? This seems to be a classic breathing issue problem.. You might try raising the foot of his bed a little to try to keep blood in his torso and head... Notice if he is exhaling properly or is he doing lots of more rapid shallow breathing? I know you did the TST assessment.. any progress on the funding for the first set of exercises?L'Ornithine is really good to help support sleep... up to three tablets half and hour before bedtime. Best WishesTracey H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hi Margaret, Long time no post from me but I'm trying to keep up here recently with the digests. Just wondering - do you give him melatonin at night already? If so, what's the dose? It is fine to give melatonin midway through the night but if he's waking after a dose then it might be time to try reducing the dose or going off it for a short time. Also, we sometimes hit times like this and find that having a three or four days in a row of heavy exercise for will break the waking cycle simply because his body gets so tired that it sleeps through and this seems to reset his sleep rhythms. I don't know if that's a totally unhelpful suggestion though as it may be difficult for you to get H to engage in lots of physical exercise. Darla > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > Margaret > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 The melatonin can help induce sleep but not necessarily maintain it. However my friend was on a trial for slow release melatonin called circaden - not sure of spelling. Which apparently worked, might be worth asking paed or doc to look it up? PS Have you contacted sleep scotland to see if there is a counselor in your area? > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > Margaret > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Has anything changed Margaret? I'm with Darla on the sleep cycle disruption, we find if is allowed to lie in at the weekend or not be busy enough or anything at all really then sleep is seriously affected, we have to be very rigid about food at night and routines in order to get his body clock back to where it should be. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) The melatonin can help induce sleep but not necessarily maintain it. However my friend was on a trial for slow release melatonin called circaden - not sure of spelling. Which apparently worked, might be worth asking paed or doc to look it up? PS Have you contacted sleep scotland to see if there is a counselor in your area? > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > Margaret > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 That's helpful to know you can give it part way through the night. We've never used it - he had a dose which was supposed to make him sleep for an EEG a couple oif weeks ago, but the dose, at 2mg, for a child who weighs over 50kg was useless. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Thanks. I shall ask her. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Gosh Margaret, half of that would be enough to have dancing on the ceiling all night, hopefully his sleep will settle when he is in a routine and you too can relax, what a stressful time for you both. The other thing we see with sleep disruption is an increase in negative behaviours, by the sound of it you are going to need all the help you can get till this period is over. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 You can get Circaden from Breakspear if H is a patient. You are not supposed to crush it - I think the coating is the time release element so would only work if H can swallow pills. In our area Circaden via the NHS can only be got from a paed because trails have only been done on over 50's. CTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Sun, 30 January, 2011 21:53:50Subject: Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Thanks. I shall ask her. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Unless the taurine is critical I would think about stopping this at the moment. Taurine is a strong stimulant and I have seen several cases where sleep problems and agitation are a result of taking taurine. (This is why taurine is added to many of the 'Red Bull' type energy drinks).Hope this helps,KenSubject: Re: Re: Help! Sleep (lack of)To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Sunday, 30 January, 2011, 22:18 Gosh Margaret, half of that would be enough to have dancing on the ceiling all night, hopefully his sleep will settle when he is in a routine and you too can relax, what a stressful time for you both. The other thing we see with sleep disruption is an increase in negative behaviours, by the sound of it you are going to need all the help you can get till this period is over. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Can you tell me where it says Taurine is a stimulant? It is known to inhibit excitary neurons, from what I read it is just an assumption that it is a stimulant because it is in energy drinks but it's role is to help with muscle fatigue. Taurine is one of our long standing supplements [8yrs] and I have always read that it is calming and in our case has proven to be so, would be interested to see anything that says otherwise. TIA Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 For us too, very calming Mandi x Taurine is one of our long standing supplements [8yrs] and I have always read that it is calming and in our case has proven to be so, would be interested to see anything that says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I give a gram twice per day Mx How much is safe? For us too, very calming Mandi x Taurine is one of our long standing supplements [8yrs] and I have always read that it is calming and in our case has proven to be so, would be interested to see anything that says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 As you day, there is a lack of published evidence. I am responding on the basis of reactions I have seen in a number of people I have worked with which have improved when taurine supplementation was reduced / removed. There is an assumption in the literature about a link based on papers that have reported things like mania (eg: Machado-Viera, Viale and Kapczinski 2001), largely in response to energy drinks that contain multiple possible 'culprits'. and from non-specific correlations between energy drink consumption and problem behaviours (eg: 2008). None of this literature provides clear evidence of an issue with taurine. The role of supplementation in addressing problems with protein metabolism, particularly phenol degradation in sulphation patrhways is less clear - as I understand it, low taurine levels are typically a downstream effect of low cysteine. This in turn can be an indicator of suboptimal protein levels in the diet, as can be seen in people adhering to a Vegan diet, or of abnormal protein catabolism with lower levels of methonine affecting AA availability from dietary protein. If I come across anything mopre specific I will let you know. Ken Subject: Re: Re: Help! Sleep (lack of)To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Sunday, 30 January, 2011, 22:18 Gosh Margaret, half of that would be enough to have dancing on the ceiling all night, hopefully his sleep will settle when he is in a routine and you too can relax, what a stressful time for you both. The other thing we see with sleep disruption is an increase in negative behaviours, by the sound of it you are going to need all the help you can get till this period is over.Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him.Margaret> >> > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night?> > Margaret> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 The role of Taurine in energy drinks is more likely to be to calm down the jitters associated with other ingredients. As it is an inhibitory neuro transmitter how can it also be a stimulant? Please do send any information you have Ken. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I thought the most lethal thing in energy drinks like redbull was actually high levels of caffeine.... I remember Tony Blair ending up in hospital because of toooo much caffeine which gave a very irregular and rapid heartbeat.. So like you Vicky, I thought that the baddies were sugar and caffeine... and the odd E numbers. Really interesting how individual we all are... What is interesting is that in people in Congestive heart failure taurine seems to stimulate muscle contractions in the heart.. and if this is the case, I could see why this might increase the wakefulness in these people. Tx The role of Taurine in energy drinks is more likely to be to calm down the jitters associated with other ingredients. As it is an inhibitory neuro transmitter how can it also be a stimulant? Please do send any information you have Ken. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Taurine normalises the electrical activity of the heart Tracey that is why it is used, it isn't to stimulate, there is lots of info on Taurine but none of it that I can find claims it to be a stimulant. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 sorry Vickyif the heart function is not effective, then taurine makes muscles work better so higher activity.. as you say no stimulant per se.. I think the bottom line is keep doing things if they work with your child.. TPS off to NUCA tday for T's interview for a place from September really exciting times fo usTx Taurine normalises the electrical activity of the heart Tracey that is why it is used, it isn't to stimulate, there is lots of info on Taurine but none of it that I can find claims it to be a stimulant. Vicky Re: Help! Sleep (lack of) Far too much going on: he's spending part of the week at his new school, part at the old, and his ABA programme has been cut back because of the days he is away. I'm stressed, too, especially with the sleep deprivation and can't cope very well.His ABA is finishing on 25 February and he leaves his old school on 15 February. He's also showing a couple of signs of puberty. The only supplements he's currently on are Kirkman P5P with magnesium and Solgar taurine, I ran out of Eye Q and have only just bought some, but shall be starting it. I stopped the cod liver oil becasue it had rosemary oil in it to preserve it -this can cause seizures in susceptible persona, so I need plain cod liver oil with nothing in it. His dad claims Henry very rarely behaves like this when staying over with him. Margaret > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > Margaret > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 How much is safe? For us too, very calming Mandi x In a message dated 31/01/2011 09:49:17 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganV@... writes: Taurine is one of our long standing supplements [8yrs] and I have always read that it is calming and in our case has proven to be so, would be interested to see anything that says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 My friends son was on a trial and is age 11, ASD,SLD,reflux,hypermobility etc. So children have been tested > > > > > > H has taking to night waking and he doesn't really settle again. Would > >anything work? I am desperate. Can you use melatonin part-way through the night? > > > Margaret > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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