Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Dear , Our DAN Nutritionist suggested we use AC protocol, so must be good and safe to use and she believes in its effectiveness! Marijana > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. There is > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this past weekend who > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get their kid worse not > > > > better............ > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! chelation is a > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get hime back. They > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe and controlled way > >to > > > > > detox metals. > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have enough money for > > > expensive DAN! treatment, or whose children have only mild forms of ASD. > > > What the truth is? I am affraid to make a wrong decision. Please tell me > > > what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Definitely it can increase adrenal stress. Thiol problems can also result for some people depending on their chelator. Anita > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation and only > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and Recoveryfromautism > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed following > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol (regardless of > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences between > > the two: > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. There is > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this past > > weekend who > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get their kid > > worse not > > > better............ > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! chelation is a > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get hime back. > > They > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe and > > controlled way > > > to detox metals. > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose children have > > only mild > > > forms of ASD. > > > What the truth is? I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 So I guess the trick with ACP is that a mother has to deside what is happening to her child. And having no a medical background, no tests available immediately, this is the challenge. To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 6:12:15 PMSubject: Re: Cutler or DAN! Definitely it can increase adrenal stress. Thiol problems can also result for some people depending on their chelator.Anita> > >> > >> > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation and only> > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and Recoveryfromautism> > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed following> > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol (regardless of> > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences between> > the two:> > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html> > > > > >> > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > From: Mum231ASD@> > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500> > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN!> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. There is> > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this past> > weekend who> > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get their kid> > worse not> > > better............ > > >> > > Mandi x> > >> > >> > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time,> > > rodler14@ writes:> > >> > >> > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! chelation is a> > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get hime back.> > They> > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe and> > controlled way> > > to detox metals.> > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have> > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose children have> > only mild> > > forms of ASD.> > > What the truth is? I am affraid to make a wrong decision.> > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice!> > >> > >> > > > > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 The support that is given on the recoveryfromautism yahoo group help you work out from your childs symptoms during chelation whether they are suffering adrenal stress etc etc In my honest opinion, alot of people do not do AC as they do not want to wake up every 3 hours through the night. To get mercury out of my son, i would wake up whenever i needed to , tired or not. Purely because he deserves the safest treatment. Our kids are sensitive and need to be treated so. Kirsty x -- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , Orange Apple wrote: > > So I guess the trick with ACP is that a mother has to deside what is happening > to her child. And having no a medical background, no tests available > immediately, this is the challenge. > >  > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 6:12:15 PM > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > >  > Definitely it can increase adrenal stress. Thiol problems can also result for > some people depending on their chelator. > > Anita > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation and only > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and Recoveryfromautism > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed following > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol (regardless of > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences between > > > the two: > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. There is > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this past > > > weekend who > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get their kid > > > worse not > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! chelation is a > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get hime back. > > > They > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe and > > > controlled way > > > > to detox metals. > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose children have > > > only mild > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > What the truth is? I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 hi All I aggree with Kirsty my sons gut fluctuates due to massive hippotonnia [weak muscle tone] remove metals and the child starts to take more interests in everything around him including new foods new tastes and more cognition.. roll on AC chelation! Isobel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation and > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and > > > > Recoveryfromautism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed > > > > > > following > > > > > > > > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol > > > > (regardless > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO. > > > > There > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this past > > > > > > > > > > > > > > weekend who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get their > > > > kid > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mandi x > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN! > > > > chelation > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get hime > > > > > > back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled way > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to detox metals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose children > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only mild > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forms of ASD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What the truth is? I am affraid to make a wrong decision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I agree but if you read Natasa's post, I hardly thought she was being respectable or polite herself to/about AC or another list member.......... I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have been reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw him explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times people just don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him with no frills. After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very bluntly that I stop wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this long to get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted another year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he cares IMHO Mx I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the language in which it is couched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Kirsty, I'm sorry if you were offended by my description of Dr Cutler as 'almost turning into a cult figure'. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you, or anyone else on this forum, are easily led. In fact, as I'm following the AC protocol, if I had meant to suggest that, I would have had to include myself too! I was just interested in Natasa's opinion, and wanted to open up a debate. I like to hear different sides of an argument, and respect Natasa's opinion as well as Dr Cutler's.I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the language in which it is couched.Joanne> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I agree with Mandi, we are doing Cutler protocol chelation> > > and> > > > > > only> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > seeing good things. Both the Autism Mercury and> > > > > Recoveryfromautism> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > yahoo groups are full of people whose children have regressed> > > > > > > following> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > high dose chelation and are now doing Cutler's protocol> > > > > (regardless> > > > > > of> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > income!) Here is a good post from Andy about the differences> > > > > > between> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the two:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > http://onibasu.com/archives/am/53055.html> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > From: Mum231ASD@> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:22:34 -0500> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Cutler protocol is safest and most efficient IMHO and IMEO.> > > > > There> > > > > > is> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > nothing quick about chelation. I learned of 2 families this> > > > past> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > weekend who> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > have each spent over $50,000 on IV chelation just to get> > > their> > > > > kid> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > worse not> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > better............ > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Mandi x> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > In a message dated 16/11/2010 14:15:44 GMT Standard Time,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > rodler14@ writes:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I've been reading a lot, some people say that IV DAN!> > > > > chelation> > > > > > is> > > > > > > a> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > roulette, you can damage your child's brain and never get> > > > hime> > > > > > > back.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > They> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > recomend Andy Cutler oral chelation protocol as most safe> > > > and> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > controlled way> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > to detox metals.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Others say that AC protocol is for those who do not have> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > enough money for expensive DAN! treatment, or whose> > > children> > > > > > have> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > only mild> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > forms of ASD.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > What the truth is? > > > > > > My protocol is for parents who actually care enough about their children to want them to get better.> > > > > > DAN! doctors are for parents still torn between their child's health needs and the need for societal approval that they're seeing a D O C T O R who proclaims himself an E X P E R T at what they need.> > > > > > ly, most of you would do absolutely anything, no matter how shocking, if you KNEW it would get your child better. So dump the doctor worship and figure out what your child needs! Don't just go to a doctor and say "HELP ME!" You did that before and the pediatrician 'helped' you by vaccinating your child and turning him autistic. Don't repeat that error, no matter how socially unacceptable it is to make your own decisions.> > > > > > >>>>>>>>I am affraid to make a wrong decision.> > > > > > This is reasonable given the typical outcome of DAN! chelation, but fear leads to very bad decisions. You need to calm down (and may need care yourself to do that, e. g. anxiolytics if your doctor thinks your fear has an anxiety component) or adrenal cortex supplements so you can be CONCERNED and AWARE but not AFRAID. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please tell me what you guys think? I need your advice!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this all helps.> > > > Andy> > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html> > Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment> > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html> > Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities> > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html> > Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children> > > > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html> > Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Cult or not, he's right on as far as I'm concerned. If I had waited for a healed gut, I'd still be waiting. It's 10y now since I came across the Berard, Binstock etal paper comparing autism-mercury and found the autism-mercury group. My daughter was 16y, devastated by seizures, super aggression, hypotonia, hypothyroid, immune values that looked terrible, limbs that she could barely feel, episodes of self injury, a huge, bloated abdomen w food particles apparent in stool, very high level pain tolerance etc. We'd searched long and hard in mainstream, [private, university, Mayos] and found no help. Derision was especially apparent when I brought up the subject of vaccines. She had gone down the proverbial tubes at age 6y after a DPT. It was only her 3rd as she had reacted so badly as an infant to the first 2. She also had her only MMR within a year of that 3rd DPT. Thank heavens, no more `protective' vaccines were on the shelf at that time. All the degreed parties told me in no uncertain terms that it was NOT associated w vaccines. Berard's paper made perfect sense and I knew then without a doubt what had happened to my beautiful child. She had ~80% of that symptom list. A simple hair test confirmed it to my satisfaction – first I spent some time in the medical library here looking for the older internal medicine texts that Cutler says validated hair testing – they were there; and doing lots of other research. My own doc ran some tests for me as hers would not. Her neurologist would not read one item I brought him and abandoned her as a patient because I even suggested toxicity. We began chelation at the top end of Cutler's rec – a big mistake. After a break due to family disagreements, we continue now at a lower dose. What have we seen – NOT a healed gut, for sure. Those huge dilated[#8 on a formal scale], unreactive pupils have recovered; the constant complaints of numbness are gone, pain tolerance is approaching normal, the super aggression is gone, self injury is a thing of the past. She has become more mellow and clued in. Diet has been an essential part of seizure control for her – seizures appear 12-16h after gluten/casein. This also makes sense in the scheme of things if mercury knocks out the efficiency of the enzyme that helps to digest these as Berard etal suggest. Until the metals are gone, I would never expect a normal gut. imho, the body works overtime to keep an even keel. To me, that means it may wrap all those offending/toxic items in yeast or whatever else it can to protect itself. Strep, Lyme and co. and who knows what else has come her way. I also consider Cutler the only safe protocol. If one analogizes chelators to other meds, prescription/over the counter, a half life/recommended dosing schedule is common to all. It would take a big leap of faith to think that an anticonvulsant w a half life of 8h would do anything positive given once a week/month; same w blood pressure meds, antibiotics, cardio-regulators etc. For a common headache, the ibuprofen begins to wear off after 3-4h generally and the headache returns. Why would one ever want to bolus such a dangerous agent as a chelator? Like all, I've made mistakes along the way. I've also learned to `listen' to my child. After a couple doses of td dmps, she threw the container away on garbage day. The land fill had it before I knew. GSE caused terrible rages – much more than I thought should be ongoing for a `die-off'. Testing many years after I first tried GSE, showed an allergy to grapefruit. Her allergies exhibit in the neuro system and never seem to cause the `normal' respiratory distress on reads about. Most of you are very fortunate that your children are young without the years of ongoing damage; fortunate, too, to be such parent advocates – docs in disguise really as you investigate the best way to help your little ones. I've learned so much from all while reading on line. Please…… do read from the files of autism-mercury re safe chelation. herself to/about AC or another list member.......... > > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have been > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw him > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times people just > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him with no > frills. > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very bluntly that I stop > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this long to > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted another > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he cares IMHO > > Mx > > > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > joanneallman@... writes: > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that > our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the > language in which it is couched. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 , thank you for posting your story, i was getting a bit lost in the previous post as not having much time to read and digest things. I am just glad that i have 28 plus rounds of AC protocol under my belt as if i was new to chelation, reading the previous post i think it probably would've put me off starting but i am so glad i did my son is making wonderful gains since starting, i put off for near on two years because i was "healing the gut" and because i was scared of starting. Like your daughter, my son's gut is (IMHO) far from healed but like you mention your not going to have a healthy gut whilst you have mercury in there, so healing the gut & chelating go hand in hand. Thanks again x To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: mbrookh@...Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:46:40 +0000Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! Cult or not, he's right on as far as I'm concerned. If I had waited for a healed gut, I'd still be waiting. It's 10y now since I came across the Berard, Binstock etal paper comparing autism-mercury and found the autism-mercury group. My daughter was 16y, devastated by seizures, super aggression, hypotonia, hypothyroid, immune values that looked terrible, limbs that she could barely feel, episodes of self injury, a huge, bloated abdomen w food particles apparent in stool, very high level pain tolerance etc. We'd searched long and hard in mainstream, [private, university, Mayos] and found no help. Derision was especially apparent when I brought up the subject of vaccines. She had gone down the proverbial tubes at age 6y after a DPT. It was only her 3rd as she had reacted so badly as an infant to the first 2. She also had her only MMR within a year of that 3rd DPT. Thank heavens, no more `protective' vaccines were on the shelf at that time. All the degreed parties told me in no uncertain terms that it was NOT associated w vaccines. Berard's paper made perfect sense and I knew then without a doubt what had happened to my beautiful child. She had ~80% of that symptom list. A simple hair test confirmed it to my satisfaction – first I spent some time in the medical library here looking for the older internal medicine texts that Cutler says validated hair testing – they were there; and doing lots of other research. My own doc ran some tests for me as hers would not. Her neurologist would not read one item I brought him and abandoned her as a patient because I even suggested toxicity. We began chelation at the top end of Cutler's rec – a big mistake. After a break due to family disagreements, we continue now at a lower dose. What have we seen – NOT a healed gut, for sure. Those huge dilated[#8 on a formal scale], unreactive pupils have recovered; the constant complaints of numbness are gone, pain tolerance is approaching normal, the super aggression is gone, self injury is a thing of the past. She has become more mellow and clued in. Diet has been an essential part of seizure control for her – seizures appear 12-16h after gluten/casein. This also makes sense in the scheme of things if mercury knocks out the efficiency of the enzyme that helps to digest these as Berard etal suggest. Until the metals are gone, I would never expect a normal gut. imho, the body works overtime to keep an even keel. To me, that means it may wrap all those offending/toxic items in yeast or whatever else it can to protect itself. Strep, Lyme and co. and who knows what else has come her way. I also consider Cutler the only safe protocol. If one analogizes chelators to other meds, prescription/over the counter, a half life/recommended dosing schedule is common to all. It would take a big leap of faith to think that an anticonvulsant w a half life of 8h would do anything positive given once a week/month; same w blood pressure meds, antibiotics, cardio-regulators etc. For a common headache, the ibuprofen begins to wear off after 3-4h generally and the headache returns. Why would one ever want to bolus such a dangerous agent as a chelator? Like all, I've made mistakes along the way. I've also learned to `listen' to my child. After a couple doses of td dmps, she threw the container away on garbage day. The land fill had it before I knew. GSE caused terrible rages – much more than I thought should be ongoing for a `die-off'. Testing many years after I first tried GSE, showed an allergy to grapefruit. Her allergies exhibit in the neuro system and never seem to cause the `normal' respiratory distress on reads about. Most of you are very fortunate that your children are young without the years of ongoing damage; fortunate, too, to be such parent advocates – docs in disguise really as you investigate the best way to help your little ones. I've learned so much from all while reading on line. Please…… do read from the files of autism-mercury re safe chelation. herself to/about AC or another list member..........> > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have been > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw him > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times people just > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him with no > frills. > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very bluntly that I stop > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this long to > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted another > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he cares IMHO> > Mx> > > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that > our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the > language in which it is couched.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 and how exactly does it relate to autism? > herself to/about AC or another list member.......... > > > > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have been > > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw him > > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times people just > > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him with no > > frills. > > > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very bluntly that I stop > > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this long to > > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted another > > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he cares IMHO > > > > Mx > > > > > > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > > joanneallman@ writes: > > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that > > our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I > > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, > > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult > > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the > > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the > > language in which it is couched. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 OMGÂ cant believe what I am reading!!! Â and how exactly does it relate to autism? > herself to/about AC or another list member.......... > > > > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I have been > > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally saw him > > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many times people just > > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to him with no > > frills. > > > > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after > > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested very bluntly that I stop > > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken this long to > > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wasted another > > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because he cares IMHO > > > > Mx > > > > > > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > > joanneallman@ writes: > > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler's point that > > our children's health is far more important than the social niceties, but I > > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with being disrespectful, > > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it very difficult > > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread there is the > > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined by the > > language in which it is couched. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Well if you look at the symptoms of mercury poisoning then they mimic most (not all) of the symptoms of what my son is suffering from, my son is diagnosed Autism so i DO believe that mercury poisening is a very big factor, i have 13 amalgams in my mouth which were all put there before puberty, i breast fed my son and he has had a porphyrns test and a hair strand test both showing high mercury toxicity. x To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: neno@...Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:54:27 +0000Subject: Re: Cutler or DAN! and how exactly does it relate to autism?> herself to/about AC or another list member..........> >> > I thinks this happens because we are such a passionate bunch. I havebeen> > reading Andys posts for over 10 years on A-M list and originally sawhim> > explaining over and over and being nicey nicey and so many timespeople just> > don't get it until he just started saying it the way it is to himwith no> > frills.> >> > After tiddling about for such a long time and asking question after> > question (delaying tactic I see now) that Andy suggested verybluntly that I stop> > wittering and get on with it, can't say it would have taken thislong to> > get going with chelation but I suspect I could have easily wastedanother> > year and will ever be grateful that didn't. He is blunt because hecares IMHO> >> > Mx> >> >> > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time,> > joanneallman@ writes:> >> > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed communityshows> > respect to others, even when we don't agree. I accept Dr Cutler'spoint that> > our children's health is far more important than the socialniceties, but I> > don't see why we can't aim for both! The problem with beingdisrespectful,> > quite apart from the offence it causes, is that it makes it verydifficult> > to engage in rational discussion. Ironically, in this thread thereis the> > basis of a productive debate, but sadly it has been undermined bythe> > language in which it is couched.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Thank you for your (polite and civil) response! I understand the points you make.You are right, we need to focus on the biomedical issues, and doing our best to help our children.I appreciate your taking the time to reply.Joanne>> > In a message dated 24/11/2010 15:32:10 GMT Standard Time, > > joanneallman@ writes:> > > > I think it's very important that everyone in the biomed community shows > > respect to others, even when we don't agree. > > I was respectful. I was also direct, and responded more or less in kind.> > I also provided real information.> > I invited Natasa to respond in kind - with real information that is, if she can.> > I have found through long experience on listservers that excessive politeness hinders communications and causes a lot of parents to hurt their children.> > Parents do not make good decisions when politeness covers up the fact that there are very real and serious disagreements that can have permanent, devastating consequences for their children.> > I guess one way you could phrase this is to say that I was civil but not polite.> > I do not believe Natasa's post was even civil, since it directly accused me of lying - making up data that I've discussed the origins of many, many times on other publicly archived listservers. Also I do answer direct questions sent to me privately about how I came up with this kind of information, Natasa never asked.> > Under the circumstances, which are essentially that I was libeled by a false and defamatory statement Natasa could easily have determined was not true, I think politeness is not absolutely required by social norms.> > I don't want to be rude, upset you (or even Natasa), or generally start a flame war on the listserver but I hope you will see it my way on this. Yes I should be civil. When in polite company I should also be polite, and when in doubt I should be polite.> > In the face of false and defamatory statements that may also hurt a lot of innocent children, I think even being civil is morally optional, but frankly if I don't draw the line there a lot of people will ignore me.> > I'd love for this to transition into a polite exchange but some respect has to cut both ways for that to occur. E. g. you politely expressed your disagreement with the tone of my earlier communication and I'm politely but frankly explaining why I chose to say it that way.> > If you go back 8 or 10 years in the archives of various lists you'll see that it took me a while to learn that there were situations in which politeness would seem to any reasonable person to be appropriate, but in which it does not work to affect behavior. I eventually learned to use means of communications that are effective at changing behavior.> > Honestly, I do wish polite interchanges of logical reasoning and scientific information were always effective! But unfortunately it is not so.> > E. g. when people demand peer reviewed studies to support what you are saying, my experience is they uniformly still will not agree with you if you can provide those in any arbitrarily large number.> > Please feel free to improve the character of discourse on this list by engaging me and others in polite discussion of the actual biomedical topics of interest!> > Andy> > http://www.noamalgam.com/index.html> Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment> > http://www.noamalgam.com/hairtestbook.html> Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities> > http://www.noamalgam.com/nourishinghope.html> Nourishing Hope for Autism: Nutrition Intervention for Healing Our Children> > http://www.noamalgam.com/biologicaltreatments.html> Biological Treatments for Autism and PDD> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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