Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Jackie, In a message dated 11/22/03 3:02:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, choose_to_live@... writes: > Thanks . The livers I have are grass-fed, but they are frozen.. I > assume they are very fresh when they are frozen. I have lamb liver > and the dreaded beef liver. Lamb liver has an even milder taste than buffalo liver, but I think the texture lacks integrity so prefer buffalo. I did have chicken livers as well, but > they were thawed in the refrigerator for a long time so half went > into spaghetti sauce and the other half went into the trash. I had a chicken liver from a high-quality pastured chicken (from Many Hands Organic Farm, whose link I posted for lard), and I thought it was so delicious raw that ordinarily people would like it! The " free-range " Eberly's brand chicken liver from the heatlh food store doesn't taste nearly as good. > Is there any way to make the beef liver " acceptable " ? Ha! No. I only tried it once or twice when I made it cooked, and with all the cooking I did to it, I still couldn't make it edible. > I am not averse to organ meats in particular, just meats in general! > I am a former vegan (it seems many here are, surprisingly). Welcome to the club :-) Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Jackie- >I did have chicken livers as well, but I've actually had no luck eating raw chicken livers, though said he got some exceptionally good ones, so maybe I just haven't found a good source yet. At any rate, though I could be wrong, I suspect grass-fed ruminant livers are more nutritious than fowl livers anyway. >Is there any way to make the beef liver " acceptable " ? Not that I know of. It really depends on the source. Perhaps a cow slaughtered at the right age might provide a tasty (or acceptable) liver if the liver were eaten soon enough, but for whatever reason, none of the beef livers I've ever gotten have been even remotely edible raw, whereas I've had generally good luck with lamb and bison livers. >I am not averse to organ meats in particular, just meats in general! >I am a former vegan (it seems many here are, surprisingly). Ah, you have my sympathies. And you're just 16? My mom went through a vegan phase (or maybe it was a little less strict than total veganism; I don't remember for sure) when I was around eight or nine, and despite her care to provide enough vegetable protein, I remember after while I started having wolf dreams in which I lusted for huge, bloody raw steaks. Awhile later, no more vegan crap. (She used to make the most disgusting salads in the history of salad -- she'd cuisinart lettuce and cabbage and carrots and other stuff into little strings, which she'd form into oozing balls of proto-life slime and plop on plates. And before and after the vegetarian phase, she was a very good cook, too.) Anyway, congratulations on escaping! >I'm thinking that soups and >stews would be the best way to soften the meat.. Stews will soften meat, but it may be that you're trying to eat the wrong kind of meat now. Stewing meat is stuff like shanks and brisket -- meat that's way too tough to eat raw or rare. Good steaks, roast beef, etc., can be eaten raw or rare, and there's a lot of value to eating some of your animal protein raw or rare. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 --- ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: > Jackie, > I had a chicken liver from a high-quality pastured > chicken (from Many Hands > Organic Farm, whose link I posted for lard), and I > thought it was so delicious > raw that ordinarily people would like it! The > " free-range " Eberly's brand > chicken liver from the heatlh food store doesn't > taste nearly as good. Chris Normally with raw/rare chicken there is a risk of food poisoning. Is there a risk with chicken livers? I cooked chicken liver the other day, but was afraid to leave it pink in the middle, just in case. I know that under normal circumstances, we should be able to shake off a touch of food poisoning, but I am still healing and my immune system is definitely not up to scratch. Thanks Jo ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 In a message dated 11/22/03 6:10:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, jopollack2001@... writes: > Normally with raw/rare chicken there is a risk of food > poisoning. Is there a risk with chicken livers? I > cooked chicken liver the other day, but was afraid to > leave it pink in the middle, just in case. > > I know that under normal circumstances, we should be > able to shake off a touch of food poisoning, but I am > still healing and my immune system is definitely not > up to scratch. I have no idea, but my immune system isn't that great, particularly my gut, and I've eaten a good 7 or 8 pounds of raw chicken liver in the past, maybe more. I usually get buffalo, but they've been out lately. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 >> I know that under normal circumstances, we should be >> able to shake off a touch of food poisoning, but I am >> still healing and my immune system is definitely not >> up to scratch. > >I have no idea, but my immune system isn't that great, particularly my gut, >and I've eaten a good 7 or 8 pounds of raw chicken liver in the past, maybe >more. I usually get buffalo, but they've been out lately. One thing you might want to keep in mind: poultry is usually contaminated on the OUTSIDE -- when they wash the birds in a dip (contaminated by other birds). A tip they give for jerky makers is to dip the jerky in vinegar. If you are concerned about liver etc (and I don't know the risks, so I'm not saying one way or the other) you could dip the livers in vinegar, or even marinate them. The INSIDE of a liver (or steak) is pretty sterile. My jerky I marinate in kefiili -- since it is going to be " warm " for a long time, if it IS contaminated it could be a big problem. But kefir tends to kill competing bacteria, plus it gets pretty acidic. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 --- Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote: > If you > are concerned > about liver etc (and I don't know the risks, so I'm > not saying one > way or the other) you could dip the livers in > vinegar, or even > marinate them. The INSIDE of a liver (or steak) is > pretty > sterile. > Thanks Heidi I will try the chicken liver raw and dipped next time. I don't have a source for good quality ones, so I buy frozen from teh supermarket Jo ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 In a message dated 11/23/03 12:48:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, choose_to_live@... writes: > Where do you get buffalo liver? I get it from Alta Vista Buffalo Farm in Rutland MA if I'm picking up heart as well, otherwise I buy the same liver produced by the same farm at a health food store in Worcester, MA, The Living Earth. > Now, how does the lamb liver " lack integrity " ? Because I'm thinking > integrity may be exactly what I don't want... LOL =) Umm, I guess it's " mushier. " > I'll check out the link. I would like to find a better source of > chicken/eggs/chicken liver, etc. as I'm pretty sure they are fed some > grain.. You probably won't find anyone raising chickens commercially or otherwise who don't use grain. > At least I only bought one... think a picky German Shepard might eat > it? =) Probably. :-P Feed it raw. Or you can cook it with lots of garlic and onion in lard or olive oil and it will be half-decent, but it still has a somewhat unpleasant taste, in my experience. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 In a message dated 11/24/03 2:52:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, choose_to_live@... writes: > >Umm, I guess it's " mushier. " > > I think that is probably a good thing for me. =) I doubt it, but let me know what you think. > > >You probably won't find anyone raising chickens commercially or > otherwise who > >don't use grain. > > Why is this? I guess the chickens wouldn't lay as many eggs if they > only eat grass? (I assume chickens aren't supposed to eat grain, > either, but maybe I'm wrong). So, the only way to have grass-fed > chicken/eggs is to have your own? Feeding chickens grain doesn't cause the harmful effects it does feeding ruminants (cows, sheep, etc) grain. Granted, the less grain they eat and the more real food they eat the better, but typically you won't find 100% pasture fed, but rather they'll be left on the pasture and also given grain, and they pick what they want. Look for folks who raise breeds that are " good foragers " who will eat more pasture-related stuff. You're mostly interested in how many bugs they eat. Chickens have a hard time getting enough calories on just pasture, especially modern breeds, but yeah, for every day egg-laying, which is " unnatural, " you need even more calories. I'd also look for folks, if there are any, who use real food for grain instead of pellets. Open-pollenated corn is vastly more nutritious than hybrid corn. If you could find anyone with sprouted grain that would be fantastic but good luck! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Jackie- >Why is this? I guess the chickens wouldn't lay as many eggs if they >only eat grass? (I assume chickens aren't supposed to eat grain, >either, but maybe I'm wrong). So, the only way to have grass-fed >chicken/eggs is to have your own? Chickens aren't really grass-eaters like ruminants are. I think if pastured they will eat some grass, but they also go after bugs and seeds, they'll eat scraps, etc. Some modern breeds seem to have been bred so selectively they'll refuse to eat anything but grain, though I do wonder how much of that is nurture versus nature, but grain as we know it has only been around for a few thousand years, so it's unlikely they're metabolically adapted to it hugely more than we are, which is to say not particularly well at all. In order to get daily eggs, though, chickens need way more calories than they would have consumed in the wild, and grain is certainly a convenient source. As Heidi says, though, it's not the only possibility. I'd be curious to try vermiculture, for example, though I'm not sure how that would affect the taste of the eggs. (Duck eggs (and duck meat) from ducks pastured on ponds are said to taste rather fishy.) Anyway, it is true that grain doesn't disrupt chicken digestion in the same way it does ruminant digestion, and the odds are hugely against you finding grain-free eggs, so I wouldn't worry too much. If you luck out, though, so much the better. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 >> You probably won't find anyone raising chickens commercially or >otherwise who >> don't use grain. > >Why is this? I guess the chickens wouldn't lay as many eggs if they >only eat grass? (I assume chickens aren't supposed to eat grain, >either, but maybe I'm wrong). So, the only way to have grass-fed >chicken/eggs is to have your own? Most birds don't lay an egg a day -- a modern chicken is not " normal " in the bird sense. If you want eggs, they need more nutrients than they can get from grass/bugs. The more carbs they get, the more the lay. However, they don't need " grain " necessarily, mine get household scraps a lot (which of course have carbs, because we eat carbs). They also get a lot of fat, kefir, meat, and bugs. And grass too. They do get some commercial feed, which no doubt has grains in it, but they won't eat the commercial feed if there are sufficient other foods. Interestingly enough, I had some rye seed -- whole grain human quality -- which I had left over from my grain-eating days, and they wouldn't touch it! They won't eat beans, and they don't like cracked corn much either. Their favorite food is kefir, or kefired kitchen scraps. As for the " best " food for chickens, you could make the argument that they have been living off human scraps for so long that maybe that IS what they are adapted for. They are omnivores, like us! Actually I got chickens originally because we have no garbage disposal -- they function quite well in that regard. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Anyway, it is true that grain doesn't disrupt chicken digestion in the same way it does ruminant digestion, and the odds are hugely against you finding grain-free eggs, so I wouldn't worry too much. If you luck out, though, so much the better. - -------------------------------------------------------- I thought chooks were " designed " to eat grain? Isn't that what the crop is for? ie. predigesting grains? Filippa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Filippa- I'm not sure I understand. >I thought chooks were " designed " to eat grain? Isn't that what the crop >is for? ie. predigesting grains? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Filippa- I'm not sure I understand. >I thought chooks were " designed " to eat grain? Isn't that what the crop >is for? ie. predigesting grains? - =====Well, my mother has chooks and she told me that they have a kind of pouch in their throat. When they eat grains, the grains don't go directly into their stomachs but into the pouch where they are partially fermented/sprouted to make them more digestible. This is what she calls the " crop " . As an aside, I've heard that if you soak grains for 12 ~ 24 hours before giving them to chooks, they will lay more eggs because they don't have to put as much energy into digesting the grains and therefore have more energy for making eggs. ~ Filippa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.