Re: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

[Guest guest]

Well, animals save their sacred milk for the young, to give them the best start in life. IMO, all 'grown' animals will take milk if offered. Dogs, pigs, chickens, cats . . . can you name an animal that will not eat 'real' cheese or milk? My dogs do refuse McD cheese.

And, no other animal is smart, cunning, intelligent enough to get other animals to trade their milk for hay, shelter and 'care'. No other animal is willing to do the work necessary to provide for other animals. (Heck, we get dogs and horses to work for us, too.) IMO, domesticated animals have traded their 'freedom' for the safety we offer, and their milk for food and shelter. Plus, I think they choose companionship with us.

Granted some have made a poor trade . . . but IMO, the 'old' organic ways were a good deal for both them and us.

(BTW, isn't there some species of ants that not only farms, but keeps other insects for milk and food?)

Ellen Schwab

JC Ohio

> "If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans, consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this practice is so "healing," as you put it, they why does it not occur in nature?">

[Guest guest]

Yes several, I had forgotten about that! that is a very good argument, I will have to remeber that. Several species of ands use aphids or other insects they take them out to "graze" then bring them into the ant hill at night and "milk" them, others I think cultivate a fungus or som,mthing down in the ant hill for the bug to graze on and then milk them.........amazing isn't it!

Matt

Re: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

Well, animals save their sacred milk for the young, to give them the best start in life. IMO, all 'grown' animals will take milk if offered. Dogs, pigs, chickens, cats . . . can you name an animal that will not eat 'real' cheese or milk? My dogs do refuse McD cheese.

And, no other animal is smart, cunning, intelligent enough to get other animals to trade their milk for hay, shelter and 'care'. No other animal is willing to do the work necessary to provide for other animals. (Heck, we get dogs and horses to work for us, too.) IMO, domesticated animals have traded their 'freedom' for the safety we offer, and their milk for food and shelter. Plus, I think they choose companionship with us.

Granted some have made a poor trade . . . but IMO, the 'old' organic ways were a good deal for both them and us.

(BTW, isn't there some species of ants that not only farms, but keeps other insects for milk and food?)

Ellen Schwab

JC Ohio

> "If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans, consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this practice is so "healing," as you put it, they why does it not occur in nature?">

[Guest guest]

My research into Soy indicates virtually all (with one or two exceptions) is treated with very toxic solvents in the preparation of Tofu. Also many other so-called HEALTH soy products as well worldwide production of these products is a bald-face lie and virtual fraud! with the exception of one or two producers most of it should come labeled as a toxic waste product.

 

Does he not think that humans are part of nature? People have been consuming milk for millenia... the soymilk and patties or whatever vegan fare he is eating, not so long...

Maybe he could identify with an argument surrounding soy, and how harmful it is in its " modern " usage...

in EVERYThing, not fermented, full of anti-nutrients... compared to how asian cultures use it (as a condiment and fermented for long periods of time)

That might open him up to recieve info about milk. Definately acknowlege that the milk he is familiar with is " White Poison " (:

By the way, it doesn't really matter what you say, he probably won't be receptive to any other way of thinking until he hits a wall with his health status. Maybe then.

>

> Well, I made the mistake of getting into a Facebook argument with a vegan/animal rights activist, where I stated that pasturized dairy was unhealthy but raw dairy is healing, and now he is asking the following question, which I don't know how to answer:

>

> " If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans, consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this practice is so " healing, " as you put it, they why does it not occur in nature? "

>

> Any suggestions how to respond to this? I know raw dairy is healing from people's experiences with it and my chiropractor's testing shows it to be healing for me. But how do I answer the point about animals not consuming it after weaning? And does anyone know of any websites talking about the healing properties of it?

>

> Thanks,

> Margaret

>

-- The greatest problem in communicationis the illusion that it has been accomplished.- Bernard ShawThe eyes see only that which the mind is prepared to comprehend.

 Goethe: “No man is more hopelessly enslaved, than he who falsely believes that he is freeâ€

[Guest guest]

To all: " You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think! "

 

If he thinks that, he has not ever been around animals. They WILL drink it any chance they get Just that the impatient weaning mamas don't generally like to nurse full grown babies. But there are pictures of cats lining up to get a squirt of cows milk from the milking farmer, and my dog will walk on his hind feet for a raw milk treat. That is vegan propaganda, and most of these people never lived around animals, so they just believe what they are told.

>

> Well, I made the mistake of getting into a Facebook argument with a vegan/animal rights activist, where I stated that pasturized dairy was unhealthy but raw dairy is healing, and now he is asking the following question, which I don't know how to answer:

>

> " If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans, consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this practice is so " healing, " as you put it, they why does it not occur in nature? "

>

> Any suggestions how to respond to this? I know raw dairy is healing from people's experiences with it and my chiropractor's testing shows it to be healing for me. But how do I answer the point about animals not consuming it after weaning? And does anyone know of any websites talking about the healing properties of it?

>

> Thanks,

> Margaret

>

-- " Solo después de que el último árbol sea cortado, el último río sea envenenado,

el último pez sea apresado…Solo entonces sabrá el hombre que el dinero no se

puede comer”.

Anuk Azim " You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think! " If you give a theory in Medicine:First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.

Finally, it is accepted as self-evident M.D.

[Guest guest]

With vegans and vegetarians as well as people who are mainstream medical (take a pill mentality), and big ag, you can argue till you Are blue in the face. You will not convince them otherwise. You are better off putting your energies somewhere else. J But glad you have earned something new. ro From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of MargaretSent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 12:54 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy Thanks for everyone's replies on this topic. While the vegan won't believe or listen to anything I say, I'm getting more educated . I really enjoy learning more about the food I eat from farmers, since I'm a " city girl " and don't know much about animals, except for dogs and cats. And the vegan I've been arguing with is the same--he lives in a big city and is involved with a dog rescue group, but probably knows nothing about farm animals. (I've found that many members of animal rescue groups are vegans.)Yes, you're absolutely correct that " you can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think! " . This vegan has read the Vegetarian Myth by Lierre and apparently learned nothing from it. He hated the book and her politics. Then another vegan jumped into the argument and said she's been vegan for 26 years and is thriving. So I sent an e-mail to Lierre today asking how it's possible for people to say they're " thriving " on a long-term vegan diet and this was her response (she was a vegan for 20 years and it destroyed her health): " One, they're lying. They're cheating, binging on the side. Two, we ALL said that we were thriving until the day we had to give it up. She is drawing down her biological reserves, period. The day will come when it all collapses. I can guarantee that she is hypoglycemic as hell, for instance.But you can't say that to people. All you can do is wait until she has faced it herself. " -Margaret>> To all:> " You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think! " >

[Guest guest]

Some times we plant seeds that only sprout and grow years or months later, We never know the seeds we are planting. It is good to share what we know. We never know when and where it will bear fruit. We just have to make sure we are planting good seed....... not bad seed.

And on the Animal rescue and SPCA front, I am always suspiciouse, they use and twist things to destroy our fredom and choices. I want to stand and say I am NOT for animal cruelty!!!! I hate taking the life of an animal even if I know it is the best for themand I am mostly vegetarian.......gotta have my dairy and eggs though......and i do eat a bit of meat, I am one of those that has a hard time thinking about the fact that I am chewing on what was once living flesh. My favorite meat is moose, yak, I am planning on trying lamb here soon.

Anyway I believe that each of us will answer to the creator for the way we treat our kids, animals, and the planet. It is not the government or any do gooders buisness to take my kids or my animals away for a perceived abuse or neglect. Now I do believe that we have aneighborly/brotherly concern for one another, but for our good, not to control someoneelses life. Its the whole raw milk, raw healthy food etc etc. There are situations and people who would take our children from us because we feed them "dangerouse food" or do not have the anyway I'll get off the soapbox.

I have no problem with a vegan living that way, I have many friends that are vegan, just don't try to make me live the same way.

MAtt

RE: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

With vegans and vegetarians as well as people who are mainstream medical (take a pill mentality), and big ag, you can argue till you Are blue in the face. You will not convince them otherwise. You are better off putting your energies somewhere else. J But glad you have earned something new.

ro

From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of MargaretSent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 12:54 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

Thanks for everyone's replies on this topic. While the vegan won't believe or listen to anything I say, I'm getting more educated . I really enjoy learning more about the food I eat from farmers, since I'm a "city girl" and don't know much about animals, except for dogs and cats. And the vegan I've been arguing with is the same--he lives in a big city and is involved with a dog rescue group, but probably knows nothing about farm animals. (I've found that many members of animal rescue groups are vegans.)Yes, you're absolutely co rrect that "you can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!". This vegan has read the Vegetarian Myth by Lierre and apparently learned nothing from it. He hated the book and her politics. Then another vegan jumped into the argument and said she's been vegan for 26 years and is thriving. So I sent an e-mail to Lierre today asking how it's possible for people to say they're "thriving" on a long-term vegan diet and this was her response (she was a vegan for 20 years and it destroyed her health):"One, they're lying. They're cheating, binging on the side. Two, we ALL said that we were thriving until the day we had to give it up. She is drawing down her biological reserves, period. The day will come when it all collapses. I can guarantee that she is hypoglycemic as hell, for instance.But you can't say that to people. All you can do is wait until she has faced it herself."-Margaret>> To all:> "You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!">

[Guest guest]

Really? You can't tell vegetarians anything? I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and have been drinking raw dairy off an on for much of that time. After recently reading Pollan's 'Omnivore's Dillema' i've been rethinking a strict vegetarian diet. I haven't made a change YET, but the written argument of a person i have never met has caused me to reconsider important ideas i've held for a LONG time. It's easy to assume people who have different ideas than you do can't be reasoned with or that you have to argue until you are 'blue in the face.' But i have found that if i treat people who have different ideas them mine with respect and openness, we can often find common ground and enjoy looking at familiar material from a different viewpoint.What is more personal than what a person eats? When that vegan attacked your ideas of what is the right thing to eat it may have felt disrespectful. That is how i feel about your characterization of me, given we have never met.Please keep in mind that this is a diverse group, who's members have different backgrounds and philosophies. CharlieTo: RawDairy From: tramar@...Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:17:14 -0500Subject: RE: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

With vegans and vegetarians as well as people who are mainstream medical (take a pill mentality), and big ag, you can argue till you Are blue in the face. You will not convince them otherwise. You are better off putting your energies somewhere else. J But glad you have earned something new. ro From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of MargaretSent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 12:54 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy Thanks for everyone's replies on this topic. While the vegan won't believe or listen to anything I say, I'm getting more educated . I really enjoy learning more about the food I eat from farmers, since I'm a "city girl" and don't know much about animals, except for dogs and cats. And the vegan I've been arguing with is the same--he lives in a big city and is involved with a dog rescue group, but probably knows nothing about farm animals. (I've found that many members of animal rescue groups are vegans.)Yes, you're absolutely correct that "you can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!". This vegan has read the Vegetarian Myth by Lierre and apparently learned nothing from it. He hated the book and her politics. Then another vegan jumped into the argument and said she's been vegan for 26 years and is thriving. So I sent an e-mail to Lierre today asking how it's possible for people to say they're "thriving" on a long-term vegan diet and this was her response (she was a vegan for 20 years and it destroyed her health):"One, they're lying. They're cheating, binging on the side. Two, we ALL said that we were thriving until the day we had to give it up. She is drawing down her biological reserves, period. The day will come when it all collapses. I can guarantee that she is hypoglycemic as hell, for instance.But you can't say that to people. All you can do is wait until she has faced it herself."-Margaret>> To all:> "You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!">

[Guest guest]

I find myself in a very similar experience.

I have beenvegitarian for a loooong time, but am a strong defender of meat eaters, and have thought about eating meat more for so,me time still am.

I think some are militant in their opinions no matter what their opinions are. very little real tolerance from any side of any spectrum!

Matt

RE: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

With vegans and vegetarians as well as people who are mainstream medical (take a pill mentality), and big ag, you can argue till you Are blue in the face. You will not convince them otherwise. You are better off putting your energies somewhere else. J But glad you have earned something new.

ro

From: RawDairy [ mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of MargaretSent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 12:54 PMTo: RawDairy Subject: Re: Evidence for healing properties of raw dairy

Thanks for everyone's replies on this topic. While the vegan won't believe or listen to anything I say, I'm getting more educated . I really enjoy learning more about the food I eat from farmers, since I'm a "city girl" and don't know much about animals, except for dogs and cats. And the vegan I've been arguing with is the same--he lives in a big city and is involved with a dog rescue group, but probably knows nothing about farm animals. (I've found that many members of animal rescue groups are vegans.)Yes, you're absolutely correct that "you can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!". This vegan has read the Vegetarian Myth by Lierre and apparently learned nothing from it. He hated the book and her politics. Then another vegan jumped into the argument and said she's been vegan for 26 years and is thriving. So I sent an e-mail to Lierre today asking how it's possible for people to say they're "thriving" on a long-term vegan diet and this was her response (she was a vegan for 20 years and it destroyed her health):"One, they're lying. They're cheating, binging on the side. Two, we ALL said that we were thriving until the day we had to give it up. She is drawing down her biological reserves, period. The day will come when it all collapses. I can guarantee that she is hypoglycemic as hell, for instance.But you can't say that to people. All you can do is wait until she has faced it herself."-Margaret>> To all:> "You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make them think!">

[Guest guest]

 

Really?  You can't tell vegetarians anything? 

Hi Charlie,

I think you can't tell some people anything, and some people of this

type are vegetarians. 

People who say things like:

"If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy

after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans,

consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this

practice is so "healing," as you put it, they why does it not occur

in nature?"

are probably people of the sort to whom you can't tell anything. 

They are also among the peculiarly obtuse people who don't seem to

realize that humans are natural, and whatever humans do quite

obviously does occur "in nature".

I think vegetarians of all stripes should support legal access to

raw milk.  After the government gets done protecting us all from the

hazards of raw milk, their next step might be mandating liver once a

week, and factory-farmed salmon twice a week.

It's for your own good, you know!

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

Margaret quotes Lierre , on thriving vegans:

"One, they're lying. They're cheating, binging on the

side.

Two, we ALL said that we were thriving until the day we

had to give it up. She is drawing down her biological

reserves, period. The day will come when it all collapses.

I can guarantee that she is hypoglycemic as hell, for

instance.

But you can't say that to people. All you can do is wait

until she has faced it herself."

I would think that a vegan would be more likely to be hyperglycemic,

since a vegan diet would be higher in carbs and lower in protein.

It's hard to find vegetable protein not laced with carbs. However

it's possible that the protein and carbs boost the insulin response,

resulting in hypoglycemia. That would tend to wear out the

pancreas, leading to diabetes at some point in the future.

And wrote:

> "You can lead a person to a fact, but you can't make

them think!"

This would be an excellent teeshirt slogan!

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

Sorry, but I have to laugh when I read comments about other animals

don't drink milk as adults. They will, if they can get it, especially

cows. My first Jersey would nurse anyone. I brought home three Dexter

heifers, just weaned. Right, they latched on and continued to nurse

from her until I sold the Jersey, four years later. It is funny to

watch, a momma cow, nurse her own offspring, then walk over to another

cow and nurse from that cow, herself.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

> People who say things like:

>

> " If dairy is so healthy, then why do no other animals consume dairy

> after they're weaned? None. Any why do no animals, except humans,

> consume the milk of any species other than their own? If this practice

> is so " healing, " as you put it, they why does it not occur in nature? "

>

[Guest guest]

I do agree that there's a lot of misinformation in this area of food/diet choices but our own solution is based on a mix of ideas that show some math promise of being in synch with our bodies own 'balance' ideas, like the body's pH balance point and the body's temperature thermostat.

In the China Study, the actual mouse studies that were later sort of confirmed in the demographic dietary research that gets the big play, those percentage ideas were crucial.  

If the mice were even genetically pre-disposed to cancer and were dosed with carcinogens they still were safe if their diet was 5% casein, they were frequently ok until their percentage of animal protein reached 10% when all #$%^ broke loose and the percentage dying from cancer accelerated rapidly.  

For plant protein, those percentages didn't matter, all was ok.  Hence the vegans dumped the math and jumped on the simple minded plant-only idea.So, number 1....  we adjusted our plant/animal diet components to match this idea, approximately, not every day and every meal, just sort of.  Maximum 5-8% animal..

Next came the WAPF group with their own truth of the ghastly consequences of pasteurization..  sanctify raw milk, granted it too has its place as medicine in special needs, but they go ballistic if you suggest that their own cases of cancer may flag that the normal diet for healthy humans requires some MATH percentage attention to the great benefits of raw milk.  We clearly do agree with them that raw milk is hugely beneficial but every thing has limits, aka MATH.

Then came the veterinary results we saw with  our cats, strict carnivores, who MUST EAT MEAT AND NO MORE THAN 8% other things, which we had confirmed with our own cats inadvertantly, after already seeing that many of their other problems went completely away after replacing at least 1/2 their diet with RAW MEAT, so we thought they were safe like that,  Not so, that 8% was crucial.  Even defeating our own acknowledged benefits from a switch to lots of raw foods.  Even with more than 75% raw meat, there were unpleasant consequences without the other 8% carb limit.

Math, math, math, no one wants to think about math.  Vegans who purport to be animal rights advocates but feed their cats diets of plant substitutes for meat are engaging in cruelty to animals, inappropriate to their PETA claiming.  Causing their pets diabetes, hyperthyroidism and renal failure is not ethical treatment of animals when there are clear data to demand STRICT animal-sourced food.

We saw the idea about the insect dietary benefits in asian populations and have wondered about the math in that observation because it complements the maximum threshold for animal components in human diets.  That 'horrid impurity' that actually is a 'nutritious supplement' would be the minimum percentage if we could identify it.

If you feel this is getting too unlabeled, buying some vegetarian, some WAPF, some rawfoodism,  maybe that's the solution.   Drop the simplistic labels and get down to the MATH...  grumbling mathematician, again feeling like nobody appreciates her or her own enthusiasms..

 

I agree that we can plant seeds.

On the animal rescue front, I recently had a friend give me a booklet they picked up in their doctors office called " The Vegetarian Starter Kit " . I began researching it, and found that it's published by a group called PCRM (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine). The group was founded by Neal Bernard, past president of PETA. It makes interesting googling, but whatever your views, the PCRM is posing as a physicians organization, even though less than 5% of its members are physicians. They promote vegetarian and vegan diets, and are active in recruiting physicians, hospitals, and health groups to get involved in research promoting the benefits of vegetarianism on health.

I have a sister who is a member of this group. She's a nutritionist, and diabetes coordinator for a large hospital group. All we can do is wish them the best, and hope that they and their families won't be harmed in the process.

I'm a reformed vegetarian myself, I can say without hesitation that raw milk, and grass fed, humanely raised animal products have made a world of difference for my physical and mental health!

>

> Some times we plant seeds that only sprout and grow years or months later, We never know the seeds we are planting. It is good to share what we know. We never know when and where it will bear fruit. We just have to make sure we are planting good seed....... not bad seed.

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

While there is much truth in what you say, especially about cats. Not

all humans are the same. Your genetics, going back like 500 years, has

a huge influence. I have friends that are almost completely Vegan,

except they recognize they need B12 so eat for that. They are very

healthy. I have friends that are Paleo, no carbs. I have friends that

are carbs and dairy and eggs, almost no meat. All are healthy. But,

they eat what their individual bodies need.

For now, I am paleo, I am fighting cancer and have to keep my blood

glucose very low. Difficult with type 2 diabetes, which I have had for

over 35 years. My alternative doctors tried to take me Vegan as a lot

of energy goes to digesting meat for most people. My tumors started to

grow again and my BG went through the roof. I eat only 100% grass fed

beef and lamb. Now my dairy is raw and the same. I do much better with

my meat and dairy, so they agreed that I am unusual and that I should

eat it.

Any doctor, health practitioner or councilor that only has one diet plan

for everyone is a disaster waiting to happen. We are all different and

that needs to be recognized. Sorry, I will get off my soap box now, but

I have watch friends with cancer be really hurt by the one plan fits all.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

>

> I do agree that there's a lot of misinformation in this area of

> food/diet choices but our own solution is based on a mix of ideas that

> show some math promise of being in synch with our bodies own 'balance'

> ideas, like the body's pH balance point and the body's temperature

> thermostat.

>

> In the China Study, the _actual_ mouse studies that were later _sort of_

> confirmed in the demographic dietary research that _gets the big play_,

> those percentage ideas were crucial.

>

> If the mice were even genetically pre-disposed to cancer and were dosed

> with carcinogens they still were safe if their diet was 5% casein, they

> were frequently ok until their percentage of animal protein reached 10%

> when all #$%^ broke loose and the percentage dying from cancer

> accelerated rapidly.

>

> For plant protein, those percentages didn't matter, all was ok. Hence

> the vegans dumped the math and jumped on the simple minded plant-only idea.

>

> So, number 1.... we adjusted our plant/animal diet components to match

> this idea, approximately, not every day and every meal, just sort of.

> Maximum 5-8% animal..

>

> Next came the WAPF group with their own truth of the ghastly

> consequences of pasteurization.. sanctify raw milk, granted it too has

> its place as medicine in special needs, but they go ballistic if you

> suggest that their own cases of cancer may flag that the normal diet for

> healthy humans requires some MATH percentage attention to the great

> benefits of raw milk. We clearly do agree with them that raw milk is

> hugely beneficial but every thing has limits, aka MATH.

>

> Then came the veterinary results we saw with our cats, strict

> carnivores, who MUST EAT MEAT AND NO MORE THAN 8% other things, which we

> had confirmed with our own cats inadvertantly, after already seeing that

> many of their other problems went completely away after replacing at

> least 1/2 their diet with RAW MEAT, so we thought they were safe like

> that, Not so, that 8% was crucial. Even defeating our own acknowledged

> benefits from a switch to lots of raw foods. Even with more than 75%

> raw meat, there were unpleasant consequences without the other 8% carb

> limit.

>

> Math, math, math, no one wants to think about math. Vegans who purport

> to be animal rights advocates but feed their cats diets of plant

> substitutes for meat are engaging in cruelty to animals, inappropriate

> to their PETA claiming. Causing their pets diabetes, hyperthyroidism

> and renal failure is not ethical treatment of animals when there are

> clear data to demand STRICT animal-sourced food.

>

> We saw the idea about the insect dietary benefits in asian populations

> and have wondered about the math in that observation because it

> complements the maximum threshold for animal components in human diets.

> That 'horrid impurity' that actually is a 'nutritious supplement'

> would be the minimum percentage if we could identify it.

>

> If you feel this is getting too unlabeled, buying some vegetarian, some

> WAPF, some rawfoodism, maybe that's the solution. Drop the simplistic

> labels and get down to the MATH... grumbling mathematician, again

> feeling like nobody appreciates her or her own enthusiasms..

>

>

> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:33 AM, O <johno@...

> > wrote:

>

> I agree that we can plant seeds.

> On the animal rescue front, I recently had a friend give me a

> booklet they picked up in their doctors office called " The

> Vegetarian Starter Kit " . I began researching it, and found that it's

> published by a group called PCRM (Physicians Committee for

> Responsible Medicine). The group was founded by Neal Bernard, past

> president of PETA. It makes interesting googling, but whatever your

> views, the PCRM is posing as a physicians organization, even though

> less than 5% of its members are physicians. They promote vegetarian

> and vegan diets, and are active in recruiting physicians, hospitals,

> and health groups to get involved in research promoting the benefits

> of vegetarianism on health.

> I have a sister who is a member of this group. She's a nutritionist,

> and diabetes coordinator for a large hospital group. All we can do

> is wish them the best, and hope that they and their families won't

> be harmed in the process.

> I'm a reformed vegetarian myself, I can say without hesitation that

> raw milk, and grass fed, humanely raised animal products have made a

> world of difference for my physical and mental health!

>

>

> >

> > Some times we plant seeds that only sprout and grow years or

> months later, We never know the seeds we are planting. It is good to

> share what we know. We never know when and where it will bear fruit.

> We just have to make sure we are planting good seed....... not bad seed.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3662 - Release Date: 05/26/11

>

[Guest guest]

First of all, we do agree that the individual is the ruler of their own diet and that your body will guide you if you have provided it with enough good choices.  My own body has told me in no uncertain terms that raw or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial tachycardia under control.  With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these things out.

However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was to my mind a diet that was mostly plant based, which would certainly not exclude carbs!  What gives?Next is the episode of the advisors trying to take you vegan and your discovery that you desperately needed meat, milk (raw) and eggs, as protection against your cancer and diabetes...  but that doesn't contradict the math thresholds UNLESS your intake of animal products exceeds 10% of your calorie intake..  grassfed beef and lamb are not high calorie fatty meats, so do you calculate what your percentage of total calorie intake is, before deciding that you don't fit the general threshold model?

Looking forward to hearing how you have been figuring rough calorie intakes by category -- animal protein calories vs total calories.  You might be surprised just how much animal protein of the quality you are suggesting would meet the standard.

MJ

Greetings,

While there is much truth in what you say, especially about cats.  Not

all humans are the same.  Your genetics, going back like 500 years, has

a huge influence.  I have friends that are almost completely Vegan,

except they recognize they need B12 so eat for that.  They are very

healthy.  I have friends that are Paleo, no carbs.  I have friends that

are carbs and dairy and eggs, almost no meat.  All are healthy.  But,

they eat what their individual bodies need.

For now, I am paleo, I am fighting cancer and have to keep my blood

glucose very low.  Difficult with type 2 diabetes, which I have had for

over 35 years.  My alternative doctors tried to take me Vegan as a lot

of energy goes to digesting meat for most people.  My tumors started to

grow again and my BG went through the roof.  I eat only 100% grass fed

beef and lamb.  Now my dairy is raw and the same. I do much better with

my meat and dairy, so they agreed that I am unusual and that I should

eat it.

Any doctor, health practitioner or councilor that only has one diet plan

for everyone is a disaster waiting to happen.  We are all different and

that needs to be recognized.  Sorry, I will get off my soap box now, but

I have watch friends with cancer be really hurt by the one plan fits all.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

>

> I do agree that there's a lot of misinformation in this area of

> food/diet choices but our own solution is based on a mix of ideas that

> show some math promise of being in synch with our bodies own 'balance'

> ideas, like the body's pH balance point and the body's temperature

> thermostat.

>

> In the China Study, the _actual_ mouse studies that were later _sort of_

> confirmed in the demographic dietary research that _gets the big play_,

> those percentage ideas were crucial.

>

> If the mice were even genetically pre-disposed to cancer and were dosed

> with carcinogens they still were safe if their diet was 5% casein, they

> were frequently ok until their percentage of animal protein reached 10%

> when all #$%^ broke loose and the percentage dying from cancer

> accelerated rapidly.

>

> For plant protein, those percentages didn't matter, all was ok.  Hence

> the vegans dumped the math and jumped on the simple minded plant-only idea.

>

> So, number 1....  we adjusted our plant/animal diet components to match

> this idea, approximately, not every day and every meal, just sort of.

>   Maximum 5-8% animal..

>

> Next came the WAPF group with their own truth of the ghastly

> consequences of pasteurization..  sanctify raw milk, granted it too has

> its place as medicine in special needs, but they go ballistic if you

> suggest that their own cases of cancer may flag that the normal diet for

> healthy humans requires some MATH percentage attention to the great

> benefits of raw milk.  We clearly do agree with them that raw milk is

> hugely beneficial but every thing has limits, aka MATH.

>

> Then came the veterinary results we saw with  our cats, strict

> carnivores, who MUST EAT MEAT AND NO MORE THAN 8% other things, which we

> had confirmed with our own cats inadvertantly, after already seeing that

> many of their other problems went completely away after replacing at

> least 1/2 their diet with RAW MEAT, so we thought they were safe like

> that,  Not so, that 8% was crucial.  Even defeating our own acknowledged

> benefits from a switch to lots of raw foods.  Even with more than 75%

> raw meat, there were unpleasant consequences without the other 8% carb

> limit.

>

> Math, math, math, no one wants to think about math.  Vegans who purport

> to be animal rights advocates but feed their cats diets of plant

> substitutes for meat are engaging in cruelty to animals, inappropriate

> to their PETA claiming.  Causing their pets diabetes, hyperthyroidism

> and renal failure is not ethical treatment of animals when there are

> clear data to demand STRICT animal-sourced food.

>

> We saw the idea about the insect dietary benefits in asian populations

> and have wondered about the math in that observation because it

> complements the maximum threshold for animal components in human diets.

>   That 'horrid impurity' that actually is a 'nutritious supplement'

> would be the minimum percentage if we could identify it.

>

> If you feel this is getting too unlabeled, buying some vegetarian, some

> WAPF, some rawfoodism,  maybe that's the solution.   Drop the simplistic

> labels and get down to the MATH...  grumbling mathematician, again

> feeling like nobody appreciates her or her own enthusiasms..

>

>

> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:33 AM, O <johno@...

> > wrote:

>

>     I agree that we can plant seeds.

>     On the animal rescue front, I recently had a friend give me a

>     booklet they picked up in their doctors office called " The

>     Vegetarian Starter Kit " . I began researching it, and found that it's

>     published by a group called PCRM (Physicians Committee for

>     Responsible Medicine). The group was founded by Neal Bernard, past

>     president of PETA. It makes interesting googling, but whatever your

>     views, the PCRM is posing as a physicians organization, even though

>     less than 5% of its members are physicians. They promote vegetarian

>     and vegan diets, and are active in recruiting physicians, hospitals,

>     and health groups to get involved in research promoting the benefits

>     of vegetarianism on health.

>     I have a sister who is a member of this group. She's a nutritionist,

>     and diabetes coordinator for a large hospital group. All we can do

>     is wish them the best, and hope that they and their families won't

>     be harmed in the process.

>     I'm a reformed vegetarian myself, I can say without hesitation that

>     raw milk, and grass fed, humanely raised animal products have made a

>     world of difference for my physical and mental health!

>

>    

>      >

>      > Some times we plant seeds that only sprout and grow years or

>     months later, We never know the seeds we are planting. It is good to

>     share what we know. We never know when and where it will bear fruit.

>     We just have to make sure we are planting good seed....... not bad seed.

>      >

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Greetings,

Yes, celery appears to be a miracle food. They have me eating lots of

it for the cancer.

I have no idea what paleo means, other than a epoch of human history.

But many friends are on 'paleo' diets and they eat meat, animal protiens

and veggies. No cereal grains, which tends to make the diet much lower

carb. I am even more restricted, no root crops allowed unless

fermented. I miss my bread, something fierce, but I have lost 25 of the

forty pounds I needed to loose, so it is the right thing for me to be

doing. Keeping it off after I beat the cancer will be the challenge.

I have no idea how many calories I am eating. I do eat meat twice a

day, dairy at least twice a day and about 6 to 8 ounces of meat each

time. The rest of my food is vegetables, mostly raw. I start the day

with steamed greens, mostly rainbow chard with raw cream butter and

Himalyan pink salt. I do eat some chicken, pastured organic. But, I am

not allowed pork. Apparently pork is the hardest meat there is to

digest. I do know that it is the only meat that can upset my tummy.

Another reason to get cancer free, I do like ribs and chops once in a while.

Since I am only allowed low carb vegetables, and milk, butter, cheese,

cream, and kefir all are high carb, I would guess at least 40 to 50

percent of my calories come from animal protein. Add in the meat and

yes, I am way over 10%.

I find dietary restriction a great incentive to behave and get over this

cancer thing. While I do know that I am being really stupid if I go

back to eating a lot of the stuff that was taken away, it will be nice

to be able to have a monthly treat.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

>

> First of all, we do agree that the individual is the ruler of their own

> diet and that your body will guide you if you have provided it with

> enough good choices. My own body has told me in no uncertain terms that

> raw or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial tachycardia

> under control. With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these

> things out.

>

> However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was to my mind a

> diet that was mostly plant based, which would certainly not exclude

> carbs! What gives?

>

> Next is the episode of the advisors trying to take you vegan and your

> discovery that you desperately needed meat, milk (raw) and eggs, as

> protection against your cancer and diabetes... but that doesn't

> contradict the math thresholds UNLESS your intake of animal products

> exceeds 10% of your calorie intake.. grassfed beef and lamb are not

> high calorie fatty meats, so do you calculate what your percentage of

> total calorie intake is, before deciding that you don't fit the general

> threshold model?

>

> Looking forward to hearing how you have been figuring rough calorie

> intakes by category -- animal protein calories vs total calories. You

> might be surprised just how much animal protein of the quality you are

> suggesting would meet the standard.

> MJ

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Garth...  interesting dietary regimen, but I see no mention of oils, seeds, nuts and similar high calorie plant foods..  you'd be surprised how that shifts the plant side of the calculation.  Of course maybe you don't lavish your salads and soups with olive oil, shower your salads in nuts and seeds, add olive oil to other seasonings for marinading meat dishes (after cooking so as to keep the EVO unchanged), adding nuts and seeds as crusty treats over the meat, cheeses, eggs etc without having to scorch the maindish...

Sure would be awfully hard to do without the bread and potatoes, oats and barley, etc.  Glad you found a way to keep the cancer at bay.  Have you ever heard of the use of mother's milk as a cancer treatment.  Swedish research, mid 90s, Univ of Lund, Svanborg) cured all sorts of cancers.  Out on the 'net, people took the idea up and ran with it, but it must be raw, according to the case of a prostate cancer patient who experimented between using the milk banks and going to find an independent donor.  The Swedes of course are trying to make the requisite chemistry capturable in a pharma, curious how slow that is, or maybe not.  Now I hear there are websites where people can make contact with mothers whose babies are no longer needing full protection, and make their own deals.  The milk banks give first priority to infants with no way to get milk support from their own mothers and they pasteurize it and charge some modest amount for their services like $3/oz and there's always the hassles of shipping/ice-keeping/bottles/prescriptions etc.  But it was successful for the one who did it raw on his own, while continuing to go for exams and tests..

Hmmm...  guess that counts as animal-based food...  best wishes.ttylMJ

 

Greetings,

Yes, celery appears to be a miracle food. They have me eating lots of

it for the cancer.

I have no idea what paleo means, other than a epoch of human history.

But many friends are on 'paleo' diets and they eat meat, animal protiens

and veggies. No cereal grains, which tends to make the diet much lower

carb. I am even more restricted, no root crops allowed unless

fermented. I miss my bread, something fierce, but I have lost 25 of the

forty pounds I needed to loose, so it is the right thing for me to be

doing. Keeping it off after I beat the cancer will be the challenge.

I have no idea how many calories I am eating. I do eat meat twice a

day, dairy at least twice a day and about 6 to 8 ounces of meat each

time. The rest of my food is vegetables, mostly raw. I start the day

with steamed greens, mostly rainbow chard with raw cream butter and

Himalyan pink salt. I do eat some chicken, pastured organic. But, I am

not allowed pork. Apparently pork is the hardest meat there is to

digest. I do know that it is the only meat that can upset my tummy.

Another reason to get cancer free, I do like ribs and chops once in a while.

Since I am only allowed low carb vegetables, and milk, butter, cheese,

cream, and kefir all are high carb, I would guess at least 40 to 50

percent of my calories come from animal protein. Add in the meat and

yes, I am way over 10%.

I find dietary restriction a great incentive to behave and get over this

cancer thing. While I do know that I am being really stupid if I go

back to eating a lot of the stuff that was taken away, it will be nice

to be able to have a monthly treat.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

>

> First of all, we do agree that the individual is the ruler of their own

> diet and that your body will guide you if you have provided it with

> enough good choices. My own body has told me in no uncertain terms that

> raw or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial tachycardia

> under control. With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these

> things out.

>

> However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was to my mind a

> diet that was mostly plant based, which would certainly not exclude

> carbs! What gives?

>

> Next is the episode of the advisors trying to take you vegan and your

> discovery that you desperately needed meat, milk (raw) and eggs, as

> protection against your cancer and diabetes... but that doesn't

> contradict the math thresholds UNLESS your intake of animal products

> exceeds 10% of your calorie intake.. grassfed beef and lamb are not

> high calorie fatty meats, so do you calculate what your percentage of

> total calorie intake is, before deciding that you don't fit the general

> threshold model?

>

> Looking forward to hearing how you have been figuring rough calorie

> intakes by category -- animal protein calories vs total calories. You

> might be surprised just how much animal protein of the quality you are

> suggesting would meet the standard.

> MJ

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

Yes, is a friend, I will say hi.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

> (When you see (in Bedias) next (I think I've heard her mention

> a Kim) say " hi " to her from me...... I hear from her now and then. Last

> time was after she lost a bunch of goats.)

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

Being a poor broke farmer, there are not lots of seeds and nuts in my

diet, that stuff is expensive. I eat mostly what I grow, and that

unfortunately does not include nuts. I am working on changing that, but

trees take forever to grow.

I do eat a bit of butter, olive oil and coconut oil, but frankly, I am

not fond of any of them. I have been working to add more to my diet,

but it takes work. However, my milk is full fat, so I do get my CLAs

and I do eat the fat on my beef, what little there is, for the same reason.

Bright Blessings,

Garth & Kim

www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

Bedias, Texas

>

>

> Hello Garth... interesting dietary regimen, but I see no mention of

> oils, seeds, nuts and similar high calorie plant foods.. you'd be

> surprised how that shifts the plant side of the calculation. Of course

> maybe you don't lavish your salads and soups with olive oil, shower your

> salads in nuts and seeds, add olive oil to other seasonings for

> marinading meat dishes (after cooking so as to keep the EVO unchanged),

> adding nuts and seeds as crusty treats over the meat, cheeses, eggs etc

> without having to scorch the maindish...

>

> Sure would be awfully hard to do without the bread and potatoes, oats

> and barley, etc. Glad you found a way to keep the cancer at bay. Have

> you ever heard of the use of mother's milk as a cancer treatment.

> Swedish research, mid 90s, Univ of Lund, Svanborg) cured all sorts of

> cancers. Out on the 'net, people took the idea up and ran with it, but

> it must be raw, according to the case of a prostate cancer patient who

> experimented between using the milk banks and going to find an

> independent donor. The Swedes of course are trying to make the

> requisite chemistry capturable in a pharma, curious how slow that is, or

> maybe not. Now I hear there are websites where people can make contact

> with mothers whose babies are no longer needing full protection, and

> make their own deals. The milk banks give first priority to infants

> with no way to get milk support from their own mothers and they

> pasteurize it and charge some modest amount for their services like

> $3/oz and there's always the hassles of

> shipping/ice-keeping/bottles/prescriptions etc. But it was successful

> for the one who did it raw on his own, while continuing to go for exams

> and tests..

>

> Hmmm... guess that counts as animal-based food... best wishes.

> ttyl

> MJ

>

>

>

> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Garth & Kim

> > wrote:

>

> Greetings,

>

> Yes, celery appears to be a miracle food. They have me eating lots of

> it for the cancer.

>

> I have no idea what paleo means, other than a epoch of human history.

> But many friends are on 'paleo' diets and they eat meat, animal

> protiens

> and veggies. No cereal grains, which tends to make the diet much lower

> carb. I am even more restricted, no root crops allowed unless

> fermented. I miss my bread, something fierce, but I have lost 25 of the

> forty pounds I needed to loose, so it is the right thing for me to be

> doing. Keeping it off after I beat the cancer will be the challenge.

>

> I have no idea how many calories I am eating. I do eat meat twice a

> day, dairy at least twice a day and about 6 to 8 ounces of meat each

> time. The rest of my food is vegetables, mostly raw. I start the day

> with steamed greens, mostly rainbow chard with raw cream butter and

> Himalyan pink salt. I do eat some chicken, pastured organic. But, I am

> not allowed pork. Apparently pork is the hardest meat there is to

> digest. I do know that it is the only meat that can upset my tummy.

> Another reason to get cancer free, I do like ribs and chops once in

> a while.

>

> Since I am only allowed low carb vegetables, and milk, butter, cheese,

> cream, and kefir all are high carb, I would guess at least 40 to 50

> percent of my calories come from animal protein. Add in the meat and

> yes, I am way over 10%.

>

> I find dietary restriction a great incentive to behave and get over

> this

> cancer thing. While I do know that I am being really stupid if I go

> back to eating a lot of the stuff that was taken away, it will be nice

> to be able to have a monthly treat.

>

>

>

> Bright Blessings,

> Garth & Kim

> www.TheRoseColoredForest.com <http://www.TheRoseColoredForest.com>

> Bedias, Texas

> <tel:>

>

>

> >

> >

> > First of all, we do agree that the individual is the ruler of

> their own

> > diet and that your body will guide you if you have provided it with

> > enough good choices. My own body has told me in no uncertain

> terms that

> > raw or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial

> tachycardia

> > under control. With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these

> > things out.

> >

> > However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was to my mind a

> > diet that was mostly plant based, which would certainly not exclude

> > carbs! What gives?

> >

> > Next is the episode of the advisors trying to take you vegan and your

> > discovery that you desperately needed meat, milk (raw) and eggs, as

> > protection against your cancer and diabetes... but that doesn't

> > contradict the math thresholds UNLESS your intake of animal products

> > exceeds 10% of your calorie intake.. grassfed beef and lamb are not

> > high calorie fatty meats, so do you calculate what your percentage of

> > total calorie intake is, before deciding that you don't fit the

> general

> > threshold model?

> >

> > Looking forward to hearing how you have been figuring rough calorie

> > intakes by category -- animal protein calories vs total calories. You

> > might be surprised just how much animal protein of the quality

> you are

> > suggesting would meet the standard.

> > MJ

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3663 - Release Date: 05/27/11

>

[Guest guest]

>>> My own body has told me in no uncertain terms that raw

or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial tachycardia

under control. With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these

things out.

However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was

to my mind a diet that was mostly plant based, which would

certainly not exclude carbs! What gives?<<<<

Hi MJ,

If you don't mind my asking...

What kind of atrial tachycardia do you have, that is helped

by celery? Is it fibrillation? Did you discover this for

yourself, or where did you hear about it?

What is involved in properly drying it?

How much celery do you need to consume?

I think paleo is the hunter-gatherer type of diet, mostly meat, no

grains or starches. Not much carbs. In most of the world, carbs

are a pretty seasonal thing, which I think is why they're addictive

to many people--eat all you can, because they'll be gone before you

know it! That worked well when you were competing with birds and

bears for the berries, and the carbs and vitamins they contain. Not

so good today, when all the carbs you want are available all year

round.

Every morning, when I get out of work, I want cake!

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

Hello ,Actually, the celery idea was strictly JUST A CRAVING UNDER THE PEAK OF A TACHYCARDIA and it was MY SON WHO INSISTED ON GETTING IT FOR ME ASAP since he had already seen to it that we had returned home, got me to recline and try to settle down.  He just takes things seriously at just the right moment and that time it was just a hand full of celery stalks.

Within moments of satisfying that craving, the feeling of pressured racing just relieved and then the heart, even though not slowing down quite yet didn't feel like it was being pushed ever failingly faster.

I have advocated that one other relative with the tachycardia  -- by that time drug likely fibrillation factors -- try the celery, and even his wife (MD-obstetrician) tried to get him to try adding it to his diet.  He flat out refused b/c his early childhood had been in an orphanage where some nun in charge did abuse the kids and was unfortunately also demanding that they eat their veggies.  Too bad, now his drug 'cure' did end badly.

So as for the 'dose' -- it was just a handful -- no 'science' involved.  And as for the frequency, I usually just keep a frig-bucketfull handy, for a bit every day and for an extra handful on those days when things have gotten out of control, either skipping or just high pressure events.

Like the night when we were moving furniture to the new house with my son driving one van ahead of me driving the other van.  We had been doing this for quite a few days and the rigors of doing this on top other workloads was beginning to pile up.  While driving at 50 down the dark country road late in the evening, the racing started and the lightheadedness was terrifying.  If you force yourself to fake a 'cough' -- repeatedly -- you can keep your blood pressure up and I had read of an MD having a heart attack who managed to drive himself to the hospital by coughing to stay conscious the whole way, coughing.  Since I needed to get some relief, I began honking while driving to keep up and trying to get my son's attention.  Fortunately he saw some troubled behavior and we pulled into a gas station down the road in a small town.  He quickly realized there was no store otherwise open that would have celery, but he is resourceful and figured he would take a stab at substitution..  V8 has dried celery in their recipe, and to my surprise, IT WORKED.  So now I carry a couple of small cans of V8 in my backpack/bag.  

Somehow, and I know some drying methods are destructive of the 'magic' in raw foods, the V8 people have done this right...  what do you know, something done right and readily accessible wherever you are.

As for the definition of paleo, that's precisely the time frame and image of hunter-gatherers... except for one thing...  hunter-gatherers eat very low amounts of meat, for a simple reason, early humans were kinda not great hunters, having barely emerged from our own history as prey...  we just hope that this isn't too difficult for people to digest as the reality of the cartoon-fantasy ideas of rough communal hunting, since even those events are rather sensibly restricted to need, namely either plant food is low or some animal 'prey' is rather troublesome. If you were limited to such primitive weaponry, and had so little protection as these groups had, you might be thinking they had some realization of the hazards of hunting as opposed to foraging and prefer foraging as much as possible, not to mention that some hunting groups still have substantial strategy and courage-building sessions to go through before launching a hunt.  At least that's what I've read as to the dietary and lifestyle issues in anthropology and archeological studies.  Don't you think it would make more sense to choose foraging over the extreme personal hazards of hunting?  And don't you think that these people were smart enough to realize that even though they were likely much more physically fit, that they would be roaming around with thorn injuries, bruises and a lot of other damaged bones and other damages from the rough work of scouting in otherwise unfriendly outdoors.  This was not a teddybear picnic in the park.  I really do wonder how people can just think that our ancestors were some kind of masterful predators when we are not without our own masterfully dedicated gun and bow developed weaponry dependence.

Just hope that answers your own questions.  Strictly body-led discovery supported by another body-led believer.  And before you think that this is totally individual...  I would have to tell you that one of our now many cats has just demonstrated last evening that even cats can have tachycardia...  couldn't believe my eyes... (visible distortion of the cat's lower torso from the pumping as he tried to sprawl out and get calmer)...  what to do..  cats are not me, so would it be sensible to try, since they do eat grass...   mashed some small tip piece of celery stalk and mixed it with a tiny bit of canned mackeral, and by the time he had eaten and settled down, the racing had ceased.   

No one seems to have ever heard of this idea, but it's so reliable in my own case that I keep telling people that nutrition is amazing EVEN IN SOME EMERGENCY 911 SITUATIONS, YET I CAN'T GET THE NDs etc to consider being open to such hair-raising situations as could be required of a natural medical ER..  I did finally find one ND interested in ER, but she was 2000 miles away... why do they fail to respond to the reality of such need for medical care of the natural non-invasive type...

yet I've read of people using one of the peppers (black powder or red by the spoonful) to reliably stop a heart attack in progress though I surely have no such ambitions..  my son however was even attempting to start up his own ER on 'SecondLife' web-development simulator online and would have been an excellent ambulance driver and more..  his and our current enthusiasm on the ER side is the mild HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen chamber) technology, which has amazing life-preserving abilities in a crisis, so much so that some places (Japan for one) have them in their ambulances...  not just the big chambers at a few isolated hospitals like in the US, and worse, just limiting those bit chambers to diabetes wound care and other wounds...  just saw a research article abstract of Russian work on hbot and anti-oxidants in dealing with sepsis and its septic shock fatalities avoided.  No coding, no intubation.  So much to explore on replacing standard frankenstein medicine with real-hippocratic-oath-honoring medical practices.

All you hear about are 'cancer' and 'heart diseases' and strokes, and big name 'diseases' as if they were even truly well defined..  yet it's really cachexia -- the wasting -- that kills cancer patients,,,  ever realize how badly we are being dumbed down even in such matters as 'education of the public on health issues'..  and the septic shock and sepsis are also not talked about, yet they are also the ultimate killers, that would need to be studied..  if we aim for the real killers, where the body gives up, we would then buy us the time to deal with the lead-in damages with nutritional medicine, where such natural progress is already existing...  and hbot gives us that ER angle for sepsis..  wonder what we'll find on cachexia...  we even saw that the cancer 'wasting' was reduced using mother's milk, but that was limited, maybe by their hospital bank milk being PASTEURIZED... would need to have a majorly accessible supply of mother's milk at hand in every corner of the area...  could we do it with a grassfed dairy (maybe goat milk being most like human) on every corner...  more later, after hunting for cachexia and raw milk in the 'net... gotta run.

MJ Raichyk

 

>>> My own body has told me in no uncertain terms that raw

or properly dried celery is the key to keeping my atrial tachycardia

under control.  With the help of my son's caregiving, we found these

things out.

However, I am puzzled over the terminology.. paleo, was

to my mind a diet that was mostly plant based, which would

certainly not exclude carbs!  What gives?<<<<

Hi MJ,

If you don't mind my asking...

What kind of atrial tachycardia do you have, that is helped

by celery?  Is it fibrillation?  Did you discover this for

yourself, or where did you hear about it? 

What is involved in properly drying it? 

How much celery do you need to consume?

I think paleo is the hunter-gatherer type of diet, mostly meat, no

grains or starches.  Not much carbs.  In most of the world, carbs

are a pretty seasonal thing, which I think is why they're addictive

to many people--eat all you can, because they'll be gone before you

know it!  That worked well when you were competing with birds and

bears for the berries, and the carbs and vitamins they contain.  Not

so good today, when all the carbs you want are available all year

round.

Every morning, when I get out of work, I want cake!

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

Hi MJ,

Thanks for the info! It must be terrifying to have such an episode of

tachycardia. I'm glad the celery and the V8 help you.

I will be mentioning that to my favorite ND/chiropractor!

Regarding pasteurized human milk, I've found a lot of interesting

research is being done on the treatment of human milk and the

preservation of the active properties and benefits of the milk. While

they like to say that goat's or cow's milk is unchanged and

nutritionally identical after pasteurization, this is not true of

mother's milk--indeed they seem to always be coming out with some new

report on the magical benefits of breastfeeding infants. So although

they think it necessary to heat treat banked human milk to prevent

disease transmission, there seems to be a lot of interest in studying

the real effects of the heat treatment. After all, the whole reason for

donating and banking milk is to provide these benefits to the

recipients. Kind of lame if you collect the milk, store the milk, and

distribute the milk, precious ounce by precious ounce...and then

pasteurize and kill it.

Blessings,

[Guest guest]

, hope that you can get the celery idea into some channel where it will reach those who need to try it.  As for the milk banks. there's hope in the 'net b/c there are a couple of websites that specialize in meetup opportunities for those who have mother's milk to share and those who are seeking it.  The process seems to be thoroughly open to individual negotiation, on amounts, price, handling, security concerns (healthy donor, mostly) and generally was reported to be thriving website operations.  Haven't gone to look, but the pasteurization would be your choice or not, so far.  HTH your wonderful idea of spreading the possibilities of emergency ND ideas.  

TTYLMJ

Hi MJ,

Thanks for the info!  It must be terrifying to have such an episode of

tachycardia.  I'm glad the celery and the V8 help you.

I will be mentioning that to my favorite ND/chiropractor!

Regarding pasteurized human milk, I've found a lot of interesting

research is being done on the treatment of human milk and the

preservation of the active properties and benefits of the milk.  While

they like to say that goat's or cow's milk is unchanged and

nutritionally identical after pasteurization, this is not true of

mother's milk--indeed they seem to always be coming out with some new

report on the magical benefits of breastfeeding infants.  So although

they think it necessary to heat treat banked human milk to prevent

disease transmission, there seems to be a lot of interest in studying

the real effects of the heat treatment.  After all, the whole reason for

donating and banking milk is to provide these benefits to the

recipients.  Kind of lame if you collect the milk, store the milk, and

distribute the milk, precious ounce by precious ounce...and then

pasteurize and kill it.

Blessings,

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