RE: no periods

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I went through almost my entire young adulthood with out a period. I had

always been on the thinner side but ate tons of foods. It came down to my

food/dietary choices. I was a macrobiotic vegan for 12 years then ate some fish

and

added oil (sesame -blech) Periods came but quite infrequent.

At that time I was in acupuncture school and used herbs/acupuncture to no

avail as well.

I then got married and of course wanted children. I started eating red meat

(wild game) it took several months to a year to regulate a cycle which was

longer than average. I also added organic butter from some Amish farmers and

eggs.

Then came poultry. The cycles shortened to 33 days and I got pregnant.

Here I am almost 15 years later with four children and another on the way.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

One more thing.. it's quite important she stay away from soy IMO as it can

really wreak havic with the cycle length when she does get a period back.

I never had anorexia so it might be different but at one point I did only

weigh 75 pounds when I was on a *healing* macrobiotic diet and eating tons of

food. And I'm 5 feet 6 inches tall.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

> are there other things she

> should make sure she includes?

Feed that woman cream-and-eggnogs stat!

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

People-Powered ! http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[Guest guest]

From my understanding fat is important for fertility. She must have used

quite a bit of her reserves...well all of her reserves while anorexic.

Perhaps a nutritionist would be in order? It sounds like she is not

interested in NT type eating. But perhaps taking supplements would help and

fit in her way of life. She can do the research on nutrition and probably

come up with a program on her own if she is motivated.

Kayte

no periods

Hello...

A friend of mine was anorexic for some time and her periods stopped. She

has now been normal weight for around six months but has still not had a

period for 18 months. She does not want to see a doctor as she has been

disillusioned with their pill-popping approach, and has brought herself out

of her depression and anorexia herself. However, she is worried about the

fact she's still not menstruating.

I asked her about her diet, and basically she eats lots of veg and fish, but

rarely eats red meat and is still in the " saturated fats are bad " tradition.

She's going to include more red meat in her diet. I thought organ meats

might help (though she's not keen on this) - are there other things she

should make sure she includes?

Thanks for any advice you can give. If this has been covered before I'm

sorry - if anyone can narrow down the timescale, I'll do a search instead.

Thanks,

Helen

[Guest guest]

Helen,

You might suggest she see a nutritionally-oriented doc who she might be

more comfortable with. She can find local listings at www.acam.org.

Malnutrition can wreak havoc with the whole endocrine system.. she's

probably injured her metabolism and needs some extra help from supplements

and maybe some natural hormone replacement (thyroid, progesterone, etc.),

so some professional guidance there can be helpful. It's great that she's

done so much on her own, but there's a time for accepting some assistance.

She may have some control issues, but she could find a sensitive doc or

nutritionist who would support her in taking responsibility for her health.

Organ meats would be great ideally, but if she still hasn't warmed up to

the saturated fat idea, maybe that would be a bit much of a challenge at

this point, and you don't want to push any food issue buttons. I would find

out what foods she really likes and go from there, developing some

NT-quality meal ideas around that, and making it a *fun* project and more

intuitive, less rigid. Saturated fats are going to be necessary for

rebuilding her hormonal health, for sure, and she might ease them in that way.

I've had an atypical form of anorexia (not self-induced), but the issues of

malnutrition are the same no matter how it came about. I came up with an

idea the other day that I've been having some fun with.. I made a list of

all the foods I especially loved as a kid. (I guess this only works if it's

been some time since you were a kid :-) It was pretty interesting just to

recall those memories. Quite a few of them I just haven't had in any form

in a long time.

Most of the foods contained wheat, arrrrgh! So I'm not duplicating them

verbatim, but getting the general idea. I'm trying to recreate some of them

just recognizably enough, healthier versions but not sacrificing the heart

and soul of it. My next project is to make pizza with chebe dough, as close

to real NYC style as possible, wish me luck, hehehe.

I wouldn't make any food issues too complicated, wouldn't challenge her

with any new, weird foods, and wouldn't be too restrictive except to

consider food allergies. The diet can be tweaked more later once she's

stable for a longer period of time and is on a more solid footing with her

relationship to food.

(One of my kid foods was cream cheese and jelly sandwich-- no peanut butter

for me, had to be cream cheese :-)

-

[Guest guest]

At 03:09 PM 11/18/2003 -0800, you wrote:

>> are there other things she

>> should make sure she includes?

>

>Feed that woman cream-and-eggnogs stat!

>

>Lynn S.

Coconut milk, oil and avocadoes, too!

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Helen,

Try to encourage and support her eht ebest way you can. She might not be real

receptive at first (heck, I though my body was *too clean* to menstruate LOL)

but in time might come around.

Good luck!

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Thanks SO much for all your responses and advice, which I'll share with my

friend.

Elainie - I was particularly interested in your story, as it sounds like

she's been inadvertently following this kind of diet. She eats a lot of

dried fruit and nuts and things too, but I noticed they didn't even have

butter in the fridge (just an evil " spread " ). I'm very, very happy to hear

that changing your diet had such a positive effect and am looking forward to

being able to raise her spirits!

Kayte - thanks for this. It may be, for example, that it would be easier

for her to have supplements to start with, eg. cod liver oil and other oil

supplements, before (or in stead of) making larger changes to her diet.

Basically she's never heard of NT or the alternative approaches to the " food

pyramid " . She does believe in a balanced and varied diet though. However,

she has spent a long time hearing and believing that saturated fats are bad,

so I think this will be a big hurdle. Anyone know of any lard supplements?!

Anyway, she'll be getting NT for christmas (this will be the 7th copy I've

given to friends - most of them haven't read it though but there has been

one conversion. It is scarey how evangelical even I am, and I don't even do

the whole culturing thing! (tried making pickled veg with whey - boy, what

a smell.))

I think she'll read it at least, as she is chanelling her food issues into a

nutrition obsession. Like many of us I guess..

- great ideas, thank you. I think the approach you suggest is ideas,

for the reasons you say (below). I live some way away unfortunately so I

can't do that much practical support that I'd otherwise do, and I agree that

it's better to avoid any food/control issue buttons. It's a good idea to

base things on the foods that she already likes and eats, perhaps

substituting saturated fats from the current spreads and oils she's using

now. So much of it is to do with your view from your own mind - eg. I

thought lard was disgusting until I believed it was a better frying

alternative to veg. oil, and then when I used it to be honest I couldn't

even taste the difference. ( Duck fat is the most fantastic thing though

) So I think forwarding the advice of those here, giving her the book,

and letting her make her own choices will be a good way to go.

Wanita - cool - I think these will go down well.

Lynn - hmm - probably an advanced option but when she comes to visit....!!!!

Thanks everyone, other comments welcome too. I get these in a digest form

so I've posted relevant bits of the posts below for reference as efficiently

as possible but couldn't see how to do it individually.

Helen

==re. re.=========================================

A friend of mine was anorexic for some time and her periods stopped. She

has now been normal weight for around six months but has still not had a

period for 18 months.

=======

Feed that woman cream-and-eggnogs stat!

Lynn S

==========

Coconut milk, oil and avocadoes, too!

Wanita

==========

From my understanding fat is important for fertility. She must have used

quite a bit of her reserves...well all of her reserves while anorexic.

Perhaps a nutritionist would be in order? It sounds like she is not

interested in NT type eating. But perhaps taking supplements would help and

fit in her way of life. She can do the research on nutrition and probably

come up with a program on her own if she is motivated.

Kayte

==============

She may have some control issues, but she could find a sensitive doc or

nutritionist who would support her in taking responsibility for her health.

Organ meats would be great ideally, but if she still hasn't warmed up to

the saturated fat idea, maybe that would be a bit much of a challenge at

this point, and you don't want to push any food issue buttons. I would find

out what foods she really likes and go from there, developing some

NT-quality meal ideas around that, and making it a *fun* project and more

intuitive, less rigid. Saturated fats are going to be necessary for

rebuilding her hormonal health, for sure, and she might ease them in that

way.

.....I wouldn't make any food issues too complicated, wouldn't challenge her

with any new, weird foods, and wouldn't be too restrictive except to

consider food allergies. The diet can be tweaked more later once she's

stable for a longer period of time and is on a more solid footing with her

relationship to food.

-

============

I went through almost my entire young adulthood with out a period. I had

always been on the thinner side but ate tons of foods. It came down to my

food/dietary choices. I was a macrobiotic vegan for 12 years then ate some

fish and

added oil (sesame -blech) Periods came but quite infrequent.

At that time I was in acupuncture school and used herbs/acupuncture to no

avail as well.

I then got married and of course wanted children. I started eating red meat

(wild game) it took several months to a year to regulate a cycle which was

longer than average. I also added organic butter from some Amish farmers and

eggs.

Then came poultry. The cycles shortened to 33 days and I got pregnant.

Here I am almost 15 years later with four children and another on the way.

One more thing.. it's quite important she stay away from soy IMO as it can

really wreak havic with the cycle length when she does get a period back.

Elainie

===================================================

[Guest guest]

Is she eating any soy foods regularly?

Does she have any big stressors in her life?

--- In , " Helen East " <helen@p...>

wrote:

> Hello...

>

> A friend of mine was anorexic for some time and her periods

stopped. She

> has now been normal weight for around six months but has still not

had a

> period for 18 months. She does not want to see a doctor as she

has been

> disillusioned with their pill-popping approach, and has brought

herself out

> of her depression and anorexia herself. However, she is worried

about the

> fact she's still not menstruating.

>

> I asked her about her diet, and basically she eats lots of veg and

fish, but

> rarely eats red meat and is still in the " saturated fats are bad "

tradition.

> She's going to include more red meat in her diet. I thought organ

meats

> might help (though she's not keen on this) - are there other things

she

> should make sure she includes?

>

> Thanks for any advice you can give. If this has been covered

before I'm

> sorry - if anyone can narrow down the timescale, I'll do a search

instead.

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Helen

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'll ask her about the soya.

She has some stressors, such as worries about her job and also still

sorting herself out. The latter is still very real.

I think that she's knocked her whole system out of kilter, and that

she needs to do what she can to help her body re-balance itself,

which includes eating some of the rich and good things. It

interested me, when I looked at the food recommendations that came

up, that it's the formerly prized foods, the richest ones - cream,

eggs, organ meats - that are recommended. " Streamlining " your diet

the modern way eliminates these, but also it's a deprivation, a

starvation, a denial of the good things in life.

Thanks for your email,

Helen

> > Hello...

> >

> > A friend of mine was anorexic for some time and her periods

> stopped. She

> > has now been normal weight for around six months but has still

not

> had a

> > period for 18 months.

[Guest guest]

Helen,

Your friend needs to look at her fats consumption. Fats allow our

bodies to produce hormones. The omega 3's are REALLY important for

womens reproductive health. Personally I've had the first no pain

period ever and I attribute it to 1T. cod liver oil/day, flax oil and

evening primrose oil (I rotate these) 4 caps/day. Then since starting

NT I've been loving crispy chicken skin and eating plenty of fatty

burgers & steaks! and not skimping on butter or being too scrupulous

about skimming fat off of stocks. Gook luck.

> >

> > > Hello...

> > >

> > > A friend of mine was anorexic for some time and her periods

> > stopped. She

> > > has now been normal weight for around six months but has still

> not

> > had a

> > > period for 18 months.

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

I'm thinking that, with the stress, she needs to eat foods that

support the adrenals and other glands. All kinds of stress deplete

the adrenals, and I understand that many times the other glands can

get depleted as they try to keep things running without fully

functional adrenals. Maybe her pituitary is worn out, etc.

Then there's the issue of sleep. Is she getting enough of it at the

right time?

I saw an interesting definition of stress the other day...this isn't

verbatim... " A thing isn't the way it _should_ be. " Of course, the

person having the stress is the one who defines (at least for

him/herself) what the situation _should_ be. That accounts for the

reason some things are stressful for some people, but not for

others. I wonder if she's making issues into stressors to a greater

extent than they need to be?

Would your friend be open to some reading material? I found Ron

Schmid's " Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine " really helpful

years ago, before I ever knew about " Nutrition and Physical

Degeneration " . TFAYBM is not as long and difficult a read as NAPD,

which makes it something a modern person might be more likely to

finish. But I *loved* all the photos in the 1939 edition of NAPD

that I found in our university library.

Ron Schmid is still practicing and available as a nutritionist. And

Tom Cowan would probably also be open to a consultation. If your

friend just wants to do her own research, have her check out the WAPF

site (http://www.westonaprice.org) and Mercola's site

(http://www.mercola.com).

If she doesn't have a clue what foods to prepare, get a copy of Sally

Fallon's " Nourishing Traditions " into her hands.

It's interesting that you should mention the " deprivation " aspect of

modern diets. I read that Ancel Keys (the researcher who is credited

with starting the modern avoidance of animal fat in about 1956) came

out of World War II into a major research project into starvation. I

assume that means he conducted a project where they fed people a

starvation diet and measured the effects on their bodies.

And our government based the past 47 years of dietary advice on a

project like that???

I think we've come upon WAPF just in time!

> Hi ,

>

> I'll ask her about the soya.

> She has some stressors, such as worries about her job and also

still

> sorting herself out. The latter is still very real.

>

> I think that she's knocked her whole system out of kilter, and that

> she needs to do what she can to help her body re-balance itself,

> which includes eating some of the rich and good things. It

> interested me, when I looked at the food recommendations that came

> up, that it's the formerly prized foods, the richest ones - cream,

> eggs, organ meats - that are recommended. " Streamlining " your diet

> the modern way eliminates these, but also it's a deprivation, a

> starvation, a denial of the good things in life.

>

> Thanks for your email,

> Helen

[Guest guest]

I'm thinking that, with the stress, she needs to eat foods that

support the adrenals and other glands. All kinds of stress deplete

the adrenals, and I understand that many times the other glands can

get depleted as they try to keep things running without fully

functional adrenals. Maybe her pituitary is worn out, etc.

-

--------------------------------------------------

What foods support adrenals and other glands?

TIA.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/03 7:06:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

filippa91@... writes:

> What foods support adrenals and other glands?

>

Raw adrenal, spleen, and liver.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> What foods support adrenals and other glands?

> Raw adrenal, spleen, and liver. (Chris)

===> Don't think we can get raw adrenal and spleen here so I'll keep chowing on

the raw liver. I'm definitely feeling better but don't know if it's the liver

or the HCl. So I'm sticking with both!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

I remember learning in a class I took awhile back that a woman needs at least

12% body fat just to menstruate. Nature designed it such that a women needs

enough body fat to sustain a pregnancy during times of starvation. This fat

store will last approximately 9 months. Being that she is starting off with very

little fat stores, she will need to eat plenty of fat to regain her

menstruation.

Theresa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/03 9:07:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

helen@... writes:

> >===> Don't think we can get raw adrenal and spleen here so I'll keep

> chowing on the raw liver. I'm definitely feeling better but don't know if

> it's the liver or the HCl. So I'm sticking with both!

You can buy an adrenal support supplement at a health food or nutritional

supplement store which will probably invariably contain raw adrenal and spleen,

though you'd pay vastly more than you would if you could actually get the

adrenal and spleen yourself from the butcher. On the other hand, you don't want

to

eat too much at once so it's convenient they come in tiny amounts in the

pills.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Helen,

> Your friend needs to look at her fats consumption. Fats allow our

> bodies to produce hormones. The omega 3's are REALLY important for

> womens reproductive health. Personally I've had the first no pain

> period ever and I attribute it to 1T. cod liver oil/day, flax oil and

> evening primrose oil (I rotate these) 4 caps/day. Then since starting

> NT I've been loving crispy chicken skin and eating plenty of fatty

> burgers & steaks! and not skimping on butter or being too scrupulous

> about skimming fat off of stocks. Gook luck.

>

Hi ,

Thanks for this, which also ties in with the other oils/fats advice. I have

passed on your advice. As I think I said before, supplements may be a good

way to start (eg, capsules) as I think her biggest hurdle is changing her

conception of fats, especially animal fats (the conventional " bad fats " ).

Personally I'm interested in your no-pain period as I am so fed up of period

pain! I have 1 cap cod-liver oil and 1 cap evening prim per day, plus

probably od on butter, lard, duck fat (THE most fantastic substance - I

really recommend a duck every 2/3 weeks!!!) but still get *bad* period pain

for 2 days a month.

Thanks again,

Helen

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks! I've passed on what you say about the adrenals and stress, and also

the website URLS. I didn't realise how stress worked, what effect it had

on these glands. It's interesting - I'm sure everyone has stories, for

example, of couples trying to concieve, getting stressed, and not being able

to until the stress was lifted in some way. Two friends of mine could not

concieve for 7 years, then went through the adoption process (very tough

here in the UK). When they finally got accepted, they immediately

concieved!!

> I saw an interesting definition of stress the other day...this isn't

> verbatim... " A thing isn't the way it _should_ be. " Of course, the

> person having the stress is the one who defines (at least for

> him/herself) what the situation _should_ be. That accounts for the

> reason some things are stressful for some people, but not for

> others.

That is a great definition of stress. How fantastic. That is

brilliant!!!!!!

> If she doesn't have a clue what foods to prepare, get a copy of Sally

> Fallon's " Nourishing Traditions " into her hands.

Christmas is coming!!!!

> It's interesting that you should mention the " deprivation " aspect of

> modern diets. I read that Ancel Keys (the researcher who is credited

> with starting the modern avoidance of animal fat in about 1956) came

> out of World War II into a major research project into starvation. I

> assume that means he conducted a project where they fed people a

> starvation diet and measured the effects on their bodies.

>

> And our government based the past 47 years of dietary advice on a

> project like that???

I haven't heard anything about this - interesting to do some research.

> I think we've come upon WAPF just in time!

Absolutely - I know I have!

Helen

[Guest guest]

> >> What foods support adrenals and other glands?

>

> > Raw adrenal, spleen, and liver. (Chris)

>

> ===> Don't think we can get raw adrenal and spleen here so I'll keep

chowing on the raw liver. I'm definitely feeling better but don't know if

it's the liver or the HCl. So I'm sticking with both!

>

> Filippa

Hi,

Are you in the UK? I'm in east anglia and spoke to our organic butcher

(Bob the butcher). I wanted to know what organ meats he could supply us

with - basically, he said that even the easiest to come by, liver and

kidneys, are getting scarcer and scarcer. This is because if there is the

tiniest flaw in any one of the internal organs, the overseeing vet at the

slaughterhouse rejects all the innards. Bob seemed to think this was was a

ridiculous waste.

I guess they don't even bother to remove adrenal & spleen?? Or else it goes

straight into the animal feed section (probably for cows...). Guess we'll

have to create some consumer demand!

Helen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/25/03 5:21:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,

filippa91@... writes:

> We don't seem to have gland supplements here (in Oz), though I may be

> wrong. I will go looking. I guess if I can find adrenal/spleen at a butcher

then

> I can do the frozen liver pill trick. Will search for both.

Ok, but make *tiny* pieces, under a gram.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Personally I'm interested in your no-pain period as I am so fed up of period

pain! I have 1 cap cod-liver oil and 1 cap evening prim per day, plus

probably od on butter, lard, duck fat (THE most fantastic substance - I

really recommend a duck every 2/3 weeks!!!) but still get *bad* period pain

for 2 days a month. (Helen)

-------------------------------------------------------

Helen, I've probably mentioned this before but liver flushing really helped my

period pain. It's not totally gone as I have a hormone imbalance but it is

hugely improved thanks to a few liver flushes. Even one was really beneficial.

If you're interested, check out the liver flush forum on curezone.com

Filippa

[Guest guest]

> Are you in the UK?

Hi Helen, no I'm in Australia ;-) Guess i better talk to my butcher too, though

it's a bit streamlined/commercialised here and I don't know if we have any

genuine Bob the butchers. Somehow I don't quite have the courage to go in and

ask for adrenals or spleen!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

hi filippa,

ive asked for " strange " things from the butcher and i nede up standing

there in silence as butcher had this well wierd look on his face. ( i just

wanted a cows hoof for stock! ) there was somethign else buty cannot

remember what is it now though it mighta been an adrenal gland.

_____

From: Filippa [mailto:filippa91@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 7:59 PM

Subject: Re: Re: no periods

> Are you in the UK?

Hi Helen, no I'm in Australia ;-) Guess i better talk to my butcher too,

though it's a bit streamlined/commercialised here and I don't know if we

have any genuine Bob the butchers. Somehow I don't quite have the courage

to go in and ask for adrenals or spleen!

Filippa

[Guest guest]

You can buy an adrenal support supplement at a health food or nutritional

supplement store which will probably invariably contain raw adrenal and spleen,

though you'd pay vastly more than you would if you could actually get the

adrenal and spleen yourself from the butcher. On the other hand, you don't want

to

eat too much at once so it's convenient they come in tiny amounts in the

pills. ~Chris

----------------------------------------------------

We don't seem to have gland supplements here (in Oz), though I may be wrong. I

will go looking. I guess if I can find adrenal/spleen at a butcher then I can

do the frozen liver pill trick. Will search for both.

Thanks,

Filippa