Re: Leaky gut autism theory doubted

[Guest guest]

I would guess that the comments by Whitely would summarise what Shattock would say, wouldn't they? He works with Shattock. Were you thinking of more detailed comments/explanation?

It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the excess peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF diets often help kids with autism. I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove one way or the other?

Darla

***But Whiteley of the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland University said while the study appeared to have ruled out one reason why a gluten and casein-free diet may work, that did not mean it was not effective for some sufferers. "It is very good news that more research is being carried out in this area. But evidence suggest that the diet does have beneficial effects for a proportion of those with autism, many of whom do suffer from bowel problems," he said. "We need further investigation to find out if there are other reasons why it may work." ***

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stmOn BBC News Online today.......Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?

[Guest guest]

I would guess that the comments by Whitely would summarise what Shattock would say, wouldn't they? He works with Shattock. Were you thinking of more detailed comments/explanation?

It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the excess peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF diets often help kids with autism. I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove one way or the other?

Darla

***But Whiteley of the Autism Research Unit at Sunderland University said while the study appeared to have ruled out one reason why a gluten and casein-free diet may work, that did not mean it was not effective for some sufferers. "It is very good news that more research is being carried out in this area. But evidence suggest that the diet does have beneficial effects for a proportion of those with autism, many of whom do suffer from bowel problems," he said. "We need further investigation to find out if there are other reasons why it may work." ***

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stmOn BBC News Online today.......Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?

[Guest guest]

It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the excess peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF diets often help kids with autism.

>>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is widely accepted in our community

I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove one way or the other?

>>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that did have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that were not helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all different, its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live with the grey after 8+ years at this lol

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the excess peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF diets often help kids with autism.

>>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is widely accepted in our community

I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove one way or the other?

>>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that did have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that were not helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all different, its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live with the grey after 8+ years at this lol

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Hi, Has anyone got a link to the orginal paper? A couple of things immediately come to mind - did the researchers look to see which peptides were in the blood? And what about the state of the blood-brain barrier? PatienceJULIE GRIFFITHS wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stmOn BBC News Online today.......Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?========================================================================Groups related to Autism-Biomedical-Europe ========================================================================Autism-Mercury (216 common members)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr0 & sec=recg Diseases and Conditions/Autism: To discuss current issues related to the increasin...EnzymesandAutism (193 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr1 & sec=recg Diseases and Conditions/Autism: The Enzymes and Autism forum is for the discussion...chelatingkids2 (182 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chelatingkids2?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr2 & sec=recg Diseases and Conditions/Autism: This list is for parents and/or family members of ...abmd (154 common members) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abmd?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr3 & sec=recg Diseases and Conditions/Autism: The Autism Biomedical Discussion group has been cr...mb12 valtrex (130 common members)

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[Guest guest]

Archive of diseases of childhood is a sub-division of the BMJ. I haven't

got any further than that so far. I'll ask Steve to contact Dr Cass and

get a copy

Sally

Patience Elliott wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Has anyone got a link to the orginal paper? A couple of things

> immediately come to mind - did the researchers look to see which

> peptides were in the blood? And what about the state of the

> blood-brain barrier?

>

> Patience

>

> */JULIE GRIFFITHS /* wrote:

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stm

>

>

> On BBC News Online today.......

>

> Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?

>

>

>

>

> ========================================================================

> Groups related to Autism-Biomedical-Europe

> ========================================================================

>

> Autism-Mercury (216 common members)

>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=a\

ftr0 & sec=recg

>

> Diseases and Conditions/Autism: To discuss current issues related

> to the increasin...

>

> EnzymesandAutism (193 common members)

>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk\

=aftr1 & sec=recg

>

> Diseases and Conditions/Autism: The Enzymes and Autism forum is

> for the discussion...

>

> chelatingkids2 (182 common members)

>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chelatingkids2?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=a\

ftr2 & sec=recg

>

> Diseases and Conditions/Autism: This list is for parents and/or

> family members of ...

>

> abmd (154 common members)

>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abmd?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr3 & sec=r\

ecg

>

> Diseases and Conditions/Autism: The Autism Biomedical Discussion

> group has been cr...*

> mb12 valtrex (130 common members)

>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mb12 valtrex?v=1 & t=ipt & ch=email & pub=groups & slk=aftr\

4 & sec=recg

>

> Diseases and Conditions/Autism: This private research group,

> started by Stan Kurtz...

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> DISCLAIMER

> No information contained in this post is to be construed as

> medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a

> suitably qualified practitioner.

>

[Guest guest]

HI

No it's the betacasomorphine bit (sp?? useless me).

I can only say that my understanding is that it wouldn't be a problem

without the leaky gut - which theory is - damaged by the measles

virus in the MMR. Have seen this on big screen with camera up my

son's intestine I can say I understand the damage. If not an MMR kid

then why would you have a leaky gut and in that case you would not

have a problem with the peptides? Adam had massive measles virus in

the gut, and blood - the second highest on testing in the hundreds of

kids in Andy's study. He has/had leaky gut. He used to say even a

year ago that ice cream (no additives only pure cream etc) made him

feel drunk. He would be as high as a kite and squeal and giggle for

England on a bit of casein, saying he was 'DRUNK' even with tons of

enzymes. Believe me he acted very very drunk. He refused all casein

products for years, as well as gluten. He hated the way it made him

feel. Interestingly he now wants to try a bit of the stuff - with

loads of enzymes I have allowed it - since he knows best how he

feels. So far he has had parmesan cheese on pasta (GFCGSF) and was

ok. I think this is symptomatic of gut healing myself.

Just my 2pw

Celia

ps Mandi and I have had this discussion lots of times!!!

Says it all for me.

> >

> > Tom did brilliantly when we took him off 'casein' or so we

thought. I

> > read Shattock's theories and knew them inside out. It really

did

> > make a remarkable difference to remove dairy. Later we introduced

> > sheep's yoghurt - presumably full of casein - no reaction. Later

still

> > we tried to introduce very pure organic ghee, which is casein-

free and

> > he had a very big reaction to it. so in other words he's not

casein

> > intolerant at all - he does have a problem with something else in

cow's

> > milk though, by the look of it. still, Shattock's attempts

to help

> > our children still helped my son, even though he probably couldn't

> > explain it. SARA

> >

> > Re: Leaky gut autism theory

doubted

> >

> > In a message dated 17/03/2008 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time,

> > rexel45@ writes:

> > It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the

excess

> > peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF

diets

> > often help kids with autism.

> >

> > >>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is

widely

> > accepted in our community

> > I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess

> > peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove

one way

> > or the other?

> > >>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that

did

> > have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that

were not

> > helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all

different,

> > its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live

with the

> > grey after 8+ years at this lol

> >

> > Mandi x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tom sometimes gets very merry on gluten. but I think that's the

simple carbs feeding the yeast. Mostly on gluten he just gets very

very stoned, glassy eyed. i was really interested in ;s talk

about HF people choosing not to eat milk and gluten products as they

made them so fuzzy. that in itself speaks volumes, I wish someone

like B Middleton at the NAS would listen to the people themselves

before dismissing diets and calling for " regulation " of them. Turkey

twizzler and TIzer anyone?

> > >

> > > Tom did brilliantly when we took him off 'casein' or so we

> thought. I

> > > read Shattock's theories and knew them inside out. It really

> did

> > > make a remarkable difference to remove dairy. Later we introduced

> > > sheep's yoghurt - presumably full of casein - no reaction. Later

> still

> > > we tried to introduce very pure organic ghee, which is casein-

> free and

> > > he had a very big reaction to it. so in other words he's not

> casein

> > > intolerant at all - he does have a problem with something else in

> cow's

> > > milk though, by the look of it. still, Shattock's attempts

> to help

> > > our children still helped my son, even though he probably couldn't

> > > explain it. SARA

> > >

> > > Re: Leaky gut autism theory

> doubted

> > >

> > > In a message dated 17/03/2008 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time,

> > > rexel45@ writes:

> > > It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the

> excess

> > > peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF

> diets

> > > often help kids with autism.

> > >

> > > >>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is

> widely

> > > accepted in our community

> > > I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess

> > > peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove

> one way

> > > or the other?

> > > >>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that

> did

> > > have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that

> were not

> > > helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all

> different,

> > > its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live

> with the

> > > grey after 8+ years at this lol

> > >

> > > Mandi x

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I thought Benet Middleton had retired. I get confused with all these NAS

types.

As Whiteley says, the research doesn't say that gluten and casein

don't give problems in autism, it found no evidence to support one

explanation of why the diet works. It didn't say that the diet doesn't

work. Just that any problems are not caused by opiates. Reicheldt found

the same in 2006. If the diet works for your child, it works. That is a

piece of evidence which should be researched (as PW says). Evidence

suggests that if it works it's not because of the opiate theory. Some

other reason therefore.

Sally

stephaniesirr wrote:

>

> Tom sometimes gets very merry on gluten. but I think that's the

> simple carbs feeding the yeast. Mostly on gluten he just gets very

> very stoned, glassy eyed. i was really interested in ;s talk

> about HF people choosing not to eat milk and gluten products as they

> made them so fuzzy. that in itself speaks volumes, I wish someone

> like B Middleton at the NAS would listen to the people themselves

> before dismissing diets and calling for " regulation " of them. Turkey

> twizzler and TIzer anyone?

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Tom did brilliantly when we took him off 'casein' or so we

> > thought. I

> > > > read Shattock's theories and knew them inside out. It really

> > did

> > > > make a remarkable difference to remove dairy. Later we introduced

> > > > sheep's yoghurt - presumably full of casein - no reaction. Later

> > still

> > > > we tried to introduce very pure organic ghee, which is casein-

> > free and

> > > > he had a very big reaction to it. so in other words he's not

> > casein

> > > > intolerant at all - he does have a problem with something else in

> > cow's

> > > > milk though, by the look of it. still, Shattock's attempts

> > to help

> > > > our children still helped my son, even though he probably couldn't

> > > > explain it. SARA

> > > >

> > > > Re: Leaky gut autism theory

> > doubted

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 17/03/2008 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time,

> > > > rexel45@ writes:

> > > > It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the

> > excess

> > > > peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF

> > diets

> > > > often help kids with autism.

> > > >

> > > > >>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is

> > widely

> > > > accepted in our community

> > > > I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess

> > > > peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove

> > one way

> > > > or the other?

> > > > >>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that

> > did

> > > > have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that

> > were not

> > > > helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all

> > different,

> > > > its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live

> > with the

> > > > grey after 8+ years at this lol

> > > >

> > > > Mandi x

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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10:34

>

[Guest guest]

was toilet trained, started seeping through the night, started to feel pain and temperature, started to understand language within weeks of gfcf diet. I suppose this is all conincidence. We get the giggling when he gets gluten/ caissen, he also wets himself and does not sleep. Am I missing something here. What are they saying needs regulating?

Re: Leaky gut autism theory > doubted> > > > > > In a message dated 17/03/2008 13:35:38 GMT Standard Time,> > > rexel45@ writes:> > > It seems that he is conceeding somewhat to the fact that the > excess> > > peptide theory may be disproved as th primary reason that GF/CF > diets> > > often help kids with autism. > > > > > > >>Its never actually been proved in the first place though it is > widely> > > accepted in our community> > > I am confused somewhat because I thought that the tests for excess> > > peptides were unreliable anyway so how could they prove/disprove > one way> > > or the other? > > > >>They can't but we all know kids who turned around on GFCF that > did> > > have peptide type stoned behaviours, I know just as many that > were not> > > helped at all. Back to they all have ASD's but they are all > different,> > > its all so grey, I like black and white but am learning to live > with the> > > grey after 8+ years at this lol> > > > > > Mandi x> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Unless I'm mistaken, Shattock did mention this study at the P2P in

Surrey. He didn't say much about it. I suspect it is all very

confusing to them.

Our own story was HUGE improvement going GFCF right after ds first

regressed. I was convinced my son would not be autistic after a couple

months. Then he started regressing again. Stayed GFCF for a long time

with no improvements, even when removing corn, soy, etc.

Tried GFCF again about 18 months (?) later without seeing any

improvements. DS does test as having excessive casein and some gluten

peptides so removal should do something. But it doesn't. He has never

craved dairy or gluten. No withdrawl when we removed them (cold

turkey).

As for leaky gut, you either have it or you don't. That is easily

tested. Whether or not it is related to escaping opioid peptides is

another story I suppose.

This is all confusing to me. I wish there were some clearer answers as

going GFCF the first time gave my son his language back, his laughter

back, everything good came back, but he lost it all again.

Anita

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stm

>

>

> On BBC News Online today.......

>

> Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Leaky Gut, does have v leaky gut, any amount of gluten / dairy

gives him red ear / red cheek. He had some table salt at my mums the

other week, only a tiny amount and whoosh, beetroot ear lobe. They are

trying to tell us our kids are not ill ................... yeah right.

lara x

> >

> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7300327.stm

> >

> >

> > On BBC News Online today.......

> >

> > Can we get feedback from Shattock on this study?

> >

> >

> >

>