Chris says: The Healing process takes time

[Guest guest]

Christ Wrote:

I don't know what scientific basis this has, but folks in naturopathy say

( " someone's law " (?) ) it takes about 1 month to heal for every year with the

problem.

That is great to know. . .I have had heartburn for 4 years. I have basically

gone off all grains.

I love dairy and have contemplated going off it too. But it would leave me only

with veggies and meat and as said that is so very boring. I would

definitely loose weight and I don't want to do that either.

I was off dairy for a while and my heartburn actually got better. I went back

on and now it is as bad as it ever has been.

I really need to try again, but it is so dang hard especially with the Holidays

coming.

Sheryl

Sheryl Illustrations

http://dovedesignsrus.com

[Guest guest]

--- In , Sheryl <dovedesignsrus@y...>

wrote:

> That is great to know. . .I have had heartburn for 4 years. I have basically

gone off all grains.

>

> I love dairy and have contemplated going off it too. But it would leave me

only with veggies and meat and as said that is so very boring. I would

definitely loose weight and I don't want to do that either.

>

> I was off dairy for a while and my heartburn actually got better. I went back

on and now it is as bad as it ever has been.

------Sheryl, I have multiple food sensitivities, and it's not as bad as you

think!

Most people who are sensitive to cow's milk do fine with goat's milk. Store

bought goat's milk can be a little " goaty " , but fresh from the farm milk is

delicious! After an adjustment period for my taste buds, I much prefer it to

cow's milk.

I was completely anti-grain, anti-starch, anti-carb before discovering NT, so

my diet was much more limited. Why have you gone off all grains if weight

isn't an issue? I have found that certain select grain foods, when properly

prepared, are actually beneficial for me. (Ezekiel sprouted bread, soaked

oatmeal and quinoa porridge...). I have also rediscovered the potato (a food I

used to believe made me gain weight). It adds a lot of pleasure to my diet

when smothered in raw butter and goat cheese, or made into a potato salad.

I don't enjoy raw veggies (have trouble digesting), but fermented veggies add

a lot of interest and flavor to my diet. Really Raw honey has also added

another dimension to my diet. I have had hypoglycemia problems in the past

(and sugar cravings and binges), but raw, natural sweeteners like honey and

maple syrup satisfy my body's desire for sweets without triggering cravings of

causing blood sugar problems (as long as I eat them with good fats).

So, despite my allergies to cow's milk, chicken eggs, all legumes except lentils

and garbanzo beans, and incorrectly prepared grains, I enjoy eating a varied

and rich diet. And despite being on Prednisone and gaining a ton of weight, I

am back to fitting in my clothes despite eating carbs and honey and lots and

lots of fat! In fact, my husband commented that I might be getting skinnier

than I was originally. So figure out what your body can't tolerate, and then

enjoy the heck out of the healthy foods it can! Especially since weight isn't

an

issue for you!

> Sheryl Illustrations

> http://dovedesignsrus.com

Are you an illustrator? Me too. At least I was before getting an eye disease!

I might go back to it later, but first I want to have babies...:-D

[Guest guest]

>>That is great to know. . .I have had heartburn for 4 years. I have

>basically gone off all grains.

>

>I'm not sure if you've seen this before or not, but heartburn is a

>classic sign of lack of hydrochloric acid. HCl sometimes needs to be

>combined with pancreatic enzymes. Without sufficient HCl, all sorts of

>digestive problems occur, and heartburn is one of them.

There seems to be a connection between low HCL, messed up

bacterial issues, and food intolerance. The gluten-reactive

folks very often need probiotics and have low HCL. Low

HCL seems to cause bacterial problems (which makes sense)

which seem to cause acne too. Gluten intolerance seems

to cause low HCL, and no doubt other things do too.

In the book " Why stomach acid is good for you " Dr.

says HCL production declines with age, but

I kind of wonder if maybe that is only true in the West,

it might be an artifact of the Western diet.

Anyway, some of the folks from the gluten intolerance

list end up on Biogest or some relative of it, but it is

strong medicine and they also warn to be careful of it.

I've found I need Biogest only very occasionally now, but

I DO need my kimchi with each meal (and I usually have

a glass of wine too).

BTW if you do have low HCL you are also more at

risk for food poisoning and it's good to be on some

good probiotics.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/03 7:31:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

janicesp11@... writes:

>

> Because the stomach needs to be very acidic (1.5 - 3)

I read that ideally it is 1.5-2 and even 3 is a bit to alkaline for the

enzymes to function properly.

> Normal

> HCl is a pH of 0.8.

What do you mean? HCl in the stomach? I thought that was the pH's listed

above? HCl itself can't have a pH, only the solution its in, and the pH of the

solution would depend on how much acid is in it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

This got me pulling down the anatomy text! Looks like there are 4

types of cells in the stomach: 1) mucous neck cells 2) zymogenic

(chief) cells-secrete pepsinogen, a precursor of the digestive enzyme

pepsin 3)parietal cells-produce HCl and intrinsic factor 4)

enteroendocrine (argentaffin) cells produce the hormone gastrin

Plenty of dilution to bring the pH up from 0.8. Another odd tidbit

that I've heard is that 1 liter of food requires about 7 liters of

fluids to progress through our bodies; mucous, enzymes, etc. Makes me

amazed...

-

> In a message dated 11/11/03 2:59:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> janicesp11@j... writes:

>

> But I guess what they're saying is the solution HCl is in (HCl and

water) is

> pH 0.8. What I don't understand, then, is how the pH rises to 1.5-

2? Are

> there other glands that secrete... umm... water?

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/03 1:43:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,

zelltsu@... writes:

> This got me pulling down the anatomy text! Looks like there are 4

> types of cells in the stomach: 1) mucous neck cells 2) zymogenic

> (chief) cells-secrete pepsinogen, a precursor of the digestive enzyme

> pepsin 3)parietal cells-produce HCl and intrinsic factor 4)

> enteroendocrine (argentaffin) cells produce the hormone gastrin

>

> Plenty of dilution to bring the pH up from 0.8.

Does your text say this, or are you assuming that there is enough water in

the other secretions to bring the pH up? I presume the pepsinogen and gastrin

is in water solution? Does the mucous actually dilute the solution or just

line the stomach lining to protect it (the latter I'd think)?

Chris

[Guest guest]

>This got me pulling down the anatomy text! Looks like there are 4

types of cells in the stomach: 1) mucous neck cells 2) zymogenic

(chief) cells-secrete pepsinogen, a precursor of the digestive enzyme

pepsin 3)parietal cells-produce HCl and intrinsic factor 4)

enteroendocrine (argentaffin) cells produce the hormone gastrin

>Plenty of dilution to bring the pH up from 0.8. Another odd tidbit

that I've heard is that 1 liter of food requires about 7 liters of

fluids to progress through our bodies; mucous, enzymes, etc. Makes me

amazed...

-

Since I'm really interested in the digestive process this is great info.

With your e-mail I too got out my anatomy and physiology books. I first

looked up HCl and couldn't find it. But then I honed in on the structure

of the stomach and gastric juice which is what you mentioned above.

In class this weekend there was a discussion about the amount of liquid

needed to complete the digestion process. Most people take in about 1/2

liter of food. Then secretion of water, acid, buffers, enzymes occurs.

The bolus enters the esophagus for passage to stomach where the

mechanical breakdown of food ensues. Gastric juice is secreted from

millions of tiny gastric glands located in the mucosal lining of the

stomach: mucous, pepsinogen, hydrochloric acid. HCl and pepsinogen begin

breaking down proteins into peptides (smaller strings of amino acids).

HCl triggers gastrin to be released into the bloodstream. The bolus

further breaks down into chyme which is very acidic.

The chyme is released into the upper part of the small intestine

(duodenum) through the pyloric sphincter. The small intestine has a dual

role as a digestive organ and a gland. The intestinal walls are

secreting mucous as well as two hormones: secretin and cholecystokinin

(CCK). Secretin stimulates the pancreas to release bicarbonate and

pancreatic juice, and CCK stimulates the gallbladder to release bile

which is necessary to emulsify and absorb fats. Sodium bicarbonate helps

raise the pH of the chyme to neutral (7.0). Then the enzyme portion of

the pancreatic juice is released to complete the chemical digestion of

carbs, proteins, and fats. At this point the chyme should be almost

totally digested. The leftover material from the small intestine

(indigestible fibers, bile, water, sloughed off cells) gets passed on to

the large intestine.

The large intestine recycles the water, recycles the waste material,

which nourishes the colon cells, and captures any lost nutrients that are

still available (with the help of the bowel flora) and converts the

nutrients to vitamins K/Bl/B2/B12 and butyric acid. Lastly the large

intestine (colon) forms and expels feces. This whole process takes about

7-1/2 liters of fluid. As an aside proper hydration is extremely

important to the health of the colon.

So if anything is deficient in this process the digestion is compromised

and problems begin to build. HCl, going back to the north to south

concept, is crucial. HCl helps convert pepsinogen to the active

digestive enzyme pepsin, which is involved in the absorption of vitamin

B12. So with deficient HCl one can become anemic, B12 being required for

red blood cell production.

Additionally zinc is necessary to produce HCl and it takes HCl to absorb

zinc. Zinc is a major part of hundreds of enzyme systems in the body.

Red and white blood cells (should) have a high concentration of zinc.

Absorption of zinc is inhibited by iron, copper and phytates.

Janice

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 11/12/03 1:43:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> zelltsu@h... writes:

>

> > This got me pulling down the anatomy text! Looks like there are 4

> > types of cells in the stomach: 1) mucous neck cells 2) zymogenic

> > (chief) cells-secrete pepsinogen, a precursor of the digestive

enzyme

> > pepsin 3)parietal cells-produce HCl and intrinsic factor 4)

> > enteroendocrine (argentaffin) cells produce the hormone gastrin

> >

> > Plenty of dilution to bring the pH up from 0.8.

>

> Does your text say this, or are you assuming that there is enough

water in

> the other secretions to bring the pH up? I presume the pepsinogen

and gastrin

> is in water solution? Does the mucous actually dilute the solution

or just

> line the stomach lining to protect it (the latter I'd think)?

>

> Chris

Ok time to get the serious textbook down. You'll be getting this one

when you get to med school; Guyton & Hall's Textbook of Medical

Physiology. Under basic mechanism of HCl secretion it says it is in

solution, 160 millimoles of HCl per liter, with a pH of about 0.8.

Further on it talks of the surface mucous cells which " line the

entire surface of the stomach mucosa between glands. They secrete

large quantities of a far more viscid mucus that is mainly insoluble

and coats the mucosa w/a gel layer of mucus often more than 1 mm

thick, thus providing a major shell of protection for the stomach

wall as well as contributing to lubrication of food transport.

Another characteristic of this mucus is that it is alkaline.

Therefore, the normal underlying stomach wall is never directly

exposed to the highly acidic, proteolytic stomach secretion. "

But there is also secretion from the Pyloric Glands of mucus &

gastrin, " these cells secrete a small amount of pepsinogen...and an

especially large amount of a thin mucus " . In the section on

lubricating and protective properties of mucus and it's importance in

the gastrointestinal tract it says, " the glycoproteins of mucus have

amphoteric properties, which means that they are capable of buffering

small amounts of either acids or alkalies; also, mucus often contains

moderate quantities of bicarbonate ions, which specifically

neutralize acids " .

I find this paragraph very interesting; " when the pepsinogens are

first secreted, they have no digestive activity. However, as soon as

they come in contact w/HCl and especially when they come in contact

w/previously formed pepsin plus HCl, they are activated to form

active pepsin. In this process, the pepsinogen molecule...is split to

form the pepsin molecule.

Pepsin is an active proteolytic enzyme in a highly acid medium

(optimum pH 1.8 to 3.5), but above a pH of about 5 it has little

proteolytic activity and actually becomes completely inactivated in a

short time. Therefore, HCl is as necessary as pepsin for protein

digestion in the stomach... "

But even if the mucus doesn't get mixed w/the HCl very much there's

lots of saliva going down the tube and that has a pH of 6.0-7.0 and

would certainly get mixed into solution wouldn't it?

-

[Guest guest]

--- Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

wrote: >

> Anyway, some of the folks from the gluten

> intolerance

> list end up on Biogest or some relative of it, but

> it is

> strong medicine and they also warn to be careful of

> it.

> I've found I need Biogest only very occasionally

> now, but

> I DO need my kimchi with each meal (and I usually

> have

> a glass of wine too).

>

Heidi

Is Kimchi any better than the basic sauerkraut recipe

in NT? I am eating kraut with lunch and dinner every

day. I would love to try Kimchi, but have never seen

a napa cabbage. Is this type of cabbage essential to

the recipe, or will an ordinary white one suffice?

I also take Primal defense, although I've seen no

difference with that vs Inner Garden Flora. Both of

them are too expensive to take in the long term, but

I'll stick with them while I heal.

> BTW if you do have low HCL you are also more at

> risk for food poisoning and it's good to be on some

> good probiotics.

That's interesting! My BF frequently gets an upset

stomach, and he is still gaining weight. I will by an

HCl supplement this weekend and try to feed it to him!

Jo

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[Guest guest]

Joanne Pollack wrote -

<<I would love to try Kimchi, but have never seen a napa cabbage. Is this type

of cabbage essential to the recipe, or will an ordinary white one suffice?>>

------ Hi Jo,

Napa cabbage is called 'Chinese leaf' in the UK ...

available all year round....

it's just not the same with other types of cabbage

Dedy

[Guest guest]

>Heidi

>Is Kimchi any better than the basic sauerkraut recipe

>in NT? I am eating kraut with lunch and dinner every

>day. I would love to try Kimchi, but have never seen

>a napa cabbage. Is this type of cabbage essential to

>the recipe, or will an ordinary white one suffice?

I think Napa is what makes it kimchi, though

radish greens make good kimchi too. You can

buy decent kimchi in most grocery stores to

try it. It is a different thing than kraut -- I like

both, but kimchi sets better with a meal. Plus

it typically has lots of ginger, garlic, and red

pepper, which are great digestive aids, full

of Vit. C, and help the immune system.

>> BTW if you do have low HCL you are also more at

>> risk for food poisoning and it's good to be on some

>> good probiotics.

>

>That's interesting! My BF frequently gets an upset

>stomach, and he is still gaining weight. I will by an

>HCl supplement this weekend and try to feed it to him!

My theory (based mainly on experience, though I've heard

others say it) is that when your stomach disagrees

with something, which could be IgG/IgA allergy and/or

bad digestion (and the two go together, it seems), then

your body produces Cortisol, the stress hormone.

Cortisol sets up a condition that causes your body

to NOT burn fat, it tries to store all the fat it can, lowers

the metabolism, AND makes you outrageously hungry.

You can get high cortisol for other reasons, but in

my case I think it was all stomach issues -- when I

react to a food I ALSO get high anxiety, but I think

the anxiety is a symptom, not the cause.

Anyway, solving his digestive issues might help

him in the weight dept. too ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

--- Rundle <Dpdg@...> wrote: > Joanne

Pollack wrote -

> ------ Hi Jo,

> Napa cabbage is called 'Chinese leaf' in the

> UK ...

> available all year round....

> it's just not the same with other types of

> cabbage

Thanks Dedy. I have certainly seen this before in the

supermarket!

Jo

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