RE: weight lifting, attn: jafa and christie

November 1, 2003

Suze,

Did you manage to keep a slightly inverted arch to your back? IOW did this

happen while you were maintaining perfect form? Usually if you have too much

weight, your form would suffer. But also could be gender thing, I suppose. Do

you feel sore as in injured or sore as in pooped from yesterday's workout?

If you want to avoid tightness in your back especially lower back, follow

squats and especially deadlifts with this exercise:

Hang from something such as a pull up bar, and:

Turn your torso from side to side-- 3 sets of eight.

Raise your legs straight out perpendicular with your torso-- 3 sets of eight.

Stretch into an inverted arch with legs out back and head back-- 3 sets of

eight

Hanging leg raises-- 3 sets of eight

Move your legs forward and backward and alternate like scissors-- 3 sets of

eight.

Pavel Tsoutsouline recommends this and it seems to work well to me. I

apologize for the equivalence of the second and fourth exercise, but I couldn't

distinguish between the two in the article I read.

Chris

November 2, 2003

Two things on that Suze;

I'd be curious what you'd be feeling like if you'd only done 1 set

you might consider only 1 set with the same weight.

also you might consider doing your deadlifts bent leg as opposed to

stiff leg. This will isolate your low back a little LESS but over

the long haul provide more than ample gains. I actually prefer this

type of deadlift over the stiff legged style especially for folks

with a rough low back history.

DMM

> i just wanted to caution you guys to not only pay attention to the

muslces

> you're working out when you increase your weights, but also to ALL

the

> muscles in your body. my back is REALLY aching today, because i

took on

> weights that were too heavy for it yesterday when doing the stiff

legged

> dead lift. i do tend to get an achy lower back when i take on

weights beyond

> a certain point, but usually the achiness doesn't last long. i

lifted 70

> lbs., did 8-10 reps and about 3 sets, IIRC (preceded by a warmup

set). my

> *hamstrings* could've handled more weight for 4 reps as DMM

suggested, but

> my *back* couldn't. i think i only felt it a little during or

after the

> excercise, which is why i didn't stop, but today it really hurts.

so i now

> need to cut back to a weight that my back can handle (after it

recoups!),

> which will be something i can do quite a few reps with - probably

60 lbs. so

> my back is essentially forcing me to do lower weights/higher reps

than i'd

> like to.

>

> so i just wanted to throw that out there for you guys so that you

can avoid

> pain or injury. i don't know if women tend to have more back

issues with

> weight lifting, but for me it's a weak point. i'm sure it seems

self

> evident, but really do pay attention to all parts of your body

when you're

> lifting and if any gets a little achy it might be a signal that

you're

> lifting too much, even though it's not the body part the exercise

focuses

> on, and the ache may seem slight.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " --

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

>

November 2, 2003

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

> Raise your legs straight out perpendicular with your torso-- 3 sets of

eight.

> Hanging leg raises-- 3 sets of eight

>

> I apologize for the equivalence of the [first] and [second] exercise,

but I

> couldn't distinguish between the two in the article I read.

The difference, I think, is that in the first you raise your legs

straight out in front of you, and in the second you bend your legs and

bring your knees up to your chest.

November 2, 2003

>>>>Did you manage to keep a slightly inverted arch to your back? IOW did

this

happen while you were maintaining perfect form?

---->yes...that arch doesn't seem to help my back at all. i've had my form

doing the stiff legged deadlift critiqued by three different trainers. all

said my form was excellent. but that was before i increased my weights. and

each had a slightly different form that they showed me. LOL

>>>>Usually if you have too much

weight, your form would suffer.

---->frankly both my back and my *arms* suffered, although my arms feel fine

today, but the weight seemed a bit too much for them while doing the

excercise. i should've backed off sooner, i was basically experimenting with

what weight i could do for 4 reps, but i never got that high before i

decided it was enough weight in regards to what my body overall could

handle, never mind my hamstrings (which could've taken on more).

>>>> But also could be gender thing, I suppose. Do

you feel sore as in injured or sore as in pooped from yesterday's workout?

---->injured sore.

>>>>If you want to avoid tightness in your back especially lower back,

follow

squats and especially deadlifts with this exercise:

Hanging leg raises-- 3 sets of eight

---->hmmm...i used to do these but don't recall feeling it in my back -

mainly just my abs.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

November 2, 2003

>>>I'd be curious what you'd be feeling like if you'd only done 1 set

you might consider only 1 set with the same weight.

---->i have a psychological aversion to so few reps :-) LOL. well, maybe my

back would've been fine, but i sure did enjoy doing slightly lower weights

and more reps the previous few times and really felt the workout in my

hamstrings. i think this is one of the few exercises that i don't have a

great desire to increase weight/decrease reps. i guess i will have to play

around with it and see what works best for me. if i'm ever going to do so

few reps i'm going to have to get over my aversion to " less is more. " LOL

>>>>also you might consider doing your deadlifts bent leg as opposed to

stiff leg. This will isolate your low back a little LESS but over

the long haul provide more than ample gains. I actually prefer this

type of deadlift over the stiff legged style especially for folks

with a rough low back history.

---->you know, i think i DID do them with slightly bent knees. i've tried

both straight and bent recently because two different trainers each showed

me a different way. next time i will be sure to do the bent leg version and

see how it goes.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

November 2, 2003

Suze I understand your " aversion " ;-)

From a practical perspective depending upon your goals quite

honestly 4 solid reps of 1 set 2 sets max will be very very

productive for you minus the " issues " afterward. And as I said by

using a bent knee form you will not put so much onus on the low back

extensors. They'll get plenty of work but they won't just be " out

there " on the line doing all the work. As I chiropractor I've seen

this be a very productive means of getting folks like you on track

pretty nicely. Whatever weight you wind up at you really need to

feel psychologically comfortable with and just work up from there.

There's no big hurry if you need start lower do it. But especially

with the history you have you really need to find a way to feel

exceptionally good about walking away from your deadlifts feeling

like hey that was pretty easy I could do more. I can't wait until

next time... as opposed to looking for that point where you feel

like you've worked hard. There is always room to improve if you

make room to improve. Keep up the good work.

DMM

> >>>I'd be curious what you'd be feeling like if you'd only done 1

set

> you might consider only 1 set with the same weight.

>

> ---->i have a psychological aversion to so few reps :-) LOL. well,

maybe my

> back would've been fine, but i sure did enjoy doing slightly lower

weights

> and more reps the previous few times and really felt the workout

in my

> hamstrings. i think this is one of the few exercises that i don't

have a

> great desire to increase weight/decrease reps. i guess i will have

to play

> around with it and see what works best for me. if i'm ever going

to do so

> few reps i'm going to have to get over my aversion to " less is

more. " LOL

>

> >>>>also you might consider doing your deadlifts bent leg as

opposed to

> stiff leg. This will isolate your low back a little LESS but over

> the long haul provide more than ample gains. I actually prefer

this

> type of deadlift over the stiff legged style especially for folks

> with a rough low back history.

>

> ---->you know, i think i DID do them with slightly bent knees.

i've tried

> both straight and bent recently because two different trainers

each showed

> me a different way. next time i will be sure to do the bent leg

version and

> see how it goes.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " --

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

November 2, 2003

>>>>>From a practical perspective depending upon your goals quite

honestly 4 solid reps of 1 set 2 sets max will be very very

productive for you minus the " issues " afterward. And as I said by

using a bent knee form you will not put so much onus on the low back

extensors. They'll get plenty of work but they won't just be " out

there " on the line doing all the work.

----->okey dokey. thanks for your input...i have a pretty poor concept of

the phsyiology of it and appreciate the fact that you not only know it quite

thoroughly, but deal with people's backs on a daily basis. LOL! once i find

my groove, i'll let you know how it's going :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

Re: weight lifting, attn: jafa and christie