Re: FOLATE

[Guest guest]

Thanks a lot for this Mike, I eat a fair few of the things on this list. Pity we

can't get chrysanthemum leaves here in Australia - I used to LOVE eating them in

Japan (great in Japanese " Nabe " hot pot). Have to get into chicken liver pate I

think!

FOLATE

> Thanks Heidi. Do you think it's OK to assume I'm getting enough

folic acid from my diet or do you think it's important to take a

supplement?

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the RDA is 400 mcg (600 mcg for pregnancy). if 1/2 of a 2000 calorie

diet contains decent (i'll pick .4 as a random cutoff) sources of

folate, then that gives **at least** 400 mcg. in addition, if 20% of

this diet contains excellent sources of folate (i'll pick 1.0 as a

random cutoff), then that gives **at least** 640 mcg. throw in a few

blowout sources, and it's not too hard to double or triple the RDA.

here's my personal list for folate-density.

folate (mcg/cal):

(from usda database)

chrysanthemum leaves 7.4

turnip greens 7.2

mustard greens 7.2

chicken liver 5.9

goose liver 5.5

duck liver 5.4

veal liver 4.8

chicory leaves 4.8

arugula 3.9

coriander leaves 2.7

celery 2.6

beets 2.5

broccoli stalks 2.5

spearmint 2.4

sweetpotato greens 2.3

radish sprouts 2.2

mung beans, sprouted 2.0

moth beans 1.9

broccoli 1.9

mung beans 1.8

cabbage 1.7

beef liver 1.7

lamb liver 1.7

pork liver 1.6

peppermint 1.6

chickpeas 1.5

lentils 1.3

alfalfa, sprouted 1.2

beef kidneys .99

lentils, sprouted .94

pepper, sweet .81

beet greens .80

tomato .71

dandelion greens .60

kale .58

crab .52

chicken heart .47

peanuts .42

pork kidneys .42

sunflower seeds .40

egg, yolk .40

egg, whole .30

lamb kidneys .30

veal kidneys .21

cuttlefish .20

octopus .20

sesame seeds .17

oats .14

wheat .12

lobster .10

milk .08

coconut .07

almonds .05

beef brain .03

beef heart .02

lamb heart .02

remarks:

some common foods with virtually no folate content were included for

reference, like milk and grains. other than some organs, no meat

(land or sea) has any signficant folate content.

some of this data is suspicious... keep in mind the limitations of

the usda data...

check out the HUGE variation in folate content among different greens

in the usda database!! could it really be true that turnip greens

have 12 times the concentration of folate as kale, even though

they're from the same family???

here's an interesting passage from a website (the bit about masking

b12 deficiency is misleading i think--i don't think it CAUSES the

deficiency, only makes it difficult to recognize):

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The synthetic form of folate is more easily absorbed by the body than

the natural folate. Consequently, 1 mcg food folate = 0.6 mcg of

synthetic folic acid from a fortified food or a supplement when

consumed at a meal or snack. When taken on an empty stomach, only 0.5

mcg is needed to equal 1 mcg of food folate. The upper limit, (its UL

or tolerable upper limit) is 1 mg (1000 mcg). Intakes of 1 mg folate

or more can mask vitamin B12 deficiency resulting in permanent nerve

damage. This is another instance of " more is not necessarily better. "

@@@@@

mike parker

[Guest guest]

>check out the HUGE variation in folate content among different greens

>in the usda database!! could it really be true that turnip greens

>have 12 times the concentration of folate as kale, even though

>they're from the same family???

That is really fascinating. The greens you list are some of the

ones used by the Koreans a lot (I never knew chrysanthemum

greens were edible, but they sell them in the market!).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> I never knew chrysanthemum greens were edible, but they sell them in the

market! -- Heidi

Try them Heidi, they're delish!! I've never had them raw though. Our favourite

Winter dish in Japan was just to boil up a pot of water and add fish, Chinese

cabbage, bean sprouts, chrysanthemum leaves, tofu, and whatever else takes your

fancy. It's done in a jiffy, then you just pick out bits, dip in

soy/vinegar/citrus sauce and into your mouth. Yum yum., especially the

chrysanthemum. Pity I wasn't more into seafood then (tending to leave the fish

for hubby) as I think you can add all sorts of stuff.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

i noticed that there were a lot of common greens missing from my list

when i made it; it was a fairly arbitrary selection of things i had

some personal interest in at the time. i just added 20 or so greens

and other veggies to the list to make it more useful. i don't really

know which lettuce is which; this is all just from the usda data. in

the end, the take-away lesson is just that a lot of veggies are good

sources of folate! greens, some other veggies, liver. by the way,

i didn't mention before that all data is for the " raw " form. note

that folate is water-soluble. and again, the usual disclaimer about

usda data applies...

here's the new list:

folate (mcg/cal):

(from the usda database)

endive 8.4

spinach 8.4

lettuce, cos or romain 8.0

chrysanthemum leaves 7.4

turnip greens 7.2

mustard greens 7.2

chicken liver 5.9

lettuce, butterhead (includes boston and bibb) 5.6

lettuce, iceberg 5.6

collard greens 5.5

goose liver 5.5

duck liver 5.4

pak-choi 5.1

pe-tsai 4.9

veal liver 4.8

chicory 4.8

arugula 3.9

cabbage, savoy 3.0

coriander 2.7

celery 2.6

radicchio 2.6

beets 2.5

broccoli stalks 2.5

cress (garden) 2.5

lettuce, green leaf 2.5

cabbage, " common " 2.4

spearmint 2.4

sweetpotato greens 2.3

lettuce, red leaf 2.3

radish sprouts 2.2

mung beans, sprouted 2.0

scallions 2.0

moth beans 1.9

broccoli 1.9

mung beans 1.8

beef liver 1.7

lamb liver 1.7

pork liver 1.6

peppermint 1.6

daikon 1.6

chickpeas 1.5

lentils 1.3

alfalfa, sprouted 1.2

beef kidneys .99

lentils, sprouted .94

watercress .82

pepper, sweet .81

beet greens .80

swiss chard .74

tomato .71

lambsquarters .70

dandelion greens .60

cabbage, red .60

kale .58

crab .52

chicken heart .47

peanuts .42

pork kidneys .42

sunflower seeds .40

egg, yolk .40

egg, whole .30

lamb kidneys .30

veal kidneys .21

cuttlefish .20

octopus .20

sesame seeds .17

oats .14

wheat .12

lobster .10

milk .08

coconut .07

almonds .05

beef brain .03

beef heart .02

lamb heart .02

[Guest guest]

>Try them Heidi, they're delish!! I've never had them raw though. Our

favourite Winter dish in Japan was just to boil up a pot of water and add fish,

Chinese cabbage, bean sprouts, chrysanthemum leaves, tofu, and whatever else

takes your fancy. It's done in a jiffy, then you just pick out bits, dip in

soy/vinegar/citrus sauce and into your mouth. Yum yum., especially the

chrysanthemum. Pity I wasn't more into seafood then (tending to leave the fish

for hubby) as I think you can add all sorts of stuff.

>

>Filippa

Thanks for the tip! I love soup lately and in this yecchy weather it works. Are

these chrysanthemums the same ones you grow in your yard? I.e. can I grow them?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Thank you!

So is folate destroyed by heat then?

And what does " water soluble " mean? I know the literal meaning but what is the

relevance in terms of consumption?

TIA

----- Original Message -----

From: Anton

i didn't mention before that all data is for the " raw " form. note

that folate is water-soluble.

[Guest guest]

>> sources of folate! greens, some other veggies, liver. by the way,

> i didn't mention before that all data is for the " raw " form.

Mike

I'm making chicken liver pate tommorrow. Do you think if I leave the centre

of the pieces of liver pink, I will leave some folic acid intact.

Joanne

[Guest guest]

@@@@@ Filippa:

Thank you!

So is folate destroyed by heat then?

And what does " water soluble " mean? I know the literal meaning but

what is the relevance in terms of consumption?

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i guess the relevance of water-solubility is that if you soak/boil

something, some of it will be leached into the water. it's one of

the reasons why steaming is often recommended over boiling, unless

your goal is to get rid the thing, like the tannins in acorns, water-

soluble oxalates, etc. higher volumes of water leach more.

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I'm making chicken liver pate tommorrow. Do you think if I leave the

centre

of the pieces of liver pink, I will leave some folic acid intact.

Joanne

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keeping in mind the limitations of the usda data, especially the fact

that we don't know what conditions things were tested under, how long

they were stored, what the animal ate, etc, here's a comparison of

the data for chicken liver for different processing, expressed as

percentage of folate of raw form. in other words, the percentage

retained.

simmered 83%

pan-fried 55%

canned pate 27%

here's similar comparison for beef liver:

braised 78%

pan-fried 60%

and for pork liver:

braised 62%

and some non-liver foods to get a better feel for it:

boiled spinach / raw spinach 76%

boiled frozen spinach / raw frozen spinach 90 %

boiled turnip greens / raw turnip greens 82%

boiled chickpeas / raw chickpeas 70%

and to close out these citations of *****usda data******, here's this

piece of exciting news:

boiled lentils / raw lentils 120% !!!!!!

so you can see that quite a bit of folate is retained despite

cooking. of course, raw gives you more, but i wouldn't worry about

it too much if you have other reasons for cooking it and you're

eating a variety of veggies. of course, there may be other nutrients

that are affected more dramatically; i really don't know! since

folate is heat-labile, independent of being water-soluble, i'm

guessing that the disparity between the simmered and pan-fried data

comes from greater temperatures in frying.

mike parker

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bob.

Lilian