Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 > I don't know how it works with >women, or if it's any different, but lifting light or moderate weights won't do >anything at all for helping you gain weight. You need to lift weights that are >at the absolute lightest enough weight to make your muscles completely fail >after 10 reps when you give it your all with good energy. It works about the same with women, but women usually don't gain much muscle mass. Light weights are pretty useless. The '10 rep' rule even works with really old folks, in one study I read about. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Heidi and Chris How do I learn more about this type of lifting. I am considering finding a personal trainer and I need to know what books to ask he or she has read. Joanne Re: CR/F-F/etc-- Jafa > > > I don't know how it works with > >women, or if it's any different, but lifting light or moderate weights won't do > >anything at all for helping you gain weight. You need to lift weights that are > >at the absolute lightest enough weight to make your muscles completely fail > >after 10 reps when you give it your all with good energy. > > It works about the same with women, but women usually > don't gain much muscle mass. Light weights are pretty useless. > The '10 rep' rule even works with really old folks, in one study > I read about. > > -- Heidi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 > You need to lift weights that are > at the absolute lightest enough weight to make your muscles completely fail > after 10 reps when you give it your all with good energy. It would probably > better to lift weight which is considerably heavier than this, but that might > have to wait till your energy level increases. This should increase your > appetite, your muscle mass, and also help you gain some fat, especially if you need > to. > I would have to disagree strongly with this, if the advice is to lift the weights until failure. I'd say that advocates of training to failure are in the minority right now, and that most experts would say that it is not as effective, and leads to injury. Better to do multiple sets of 5-6 reps of a heavy weight, with limited rest in between if the goal is to build muscle. The sets are NOT to failure - maybe 80% of your maximum. One popular primer (with much more detail) on this training technique would be 'Power to the People', which is available through Dragondoor. Even if you don't do the exact exercises recommended in the book, the basic template would be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Joanne, I don't think you'll find a personal trainer anywhere who will recommend otherwise. Personal trainer's are certified, so they have to have basic knowledge. You don't necessarily have to listen to their dietary recommendations, but they'll know how to do the exercises, which is important. Squats are the most important exercise to do. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 > Joanne, > > I don't think you'll find a personal trainer anywhere who will recommend otherwise. Personal trainer's are certified, so they have to have basic knowledge. You don't necessarily have to listen to their dietary recommendations, but they'll know how to do the exercises, which is important. > > Squats are the most important exercise to do. > > Chris Forgive me if I haven't completely followed this thread, but are you saying that all personal trainers recommend training to failure? Or are you referring to something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I disagree with this. If you want to do *good* exercises, you need to know how to do them safely. Squat should be everyone's number one priority, but proper form isn't common sense at all. Even arm curls with dumbells would be done improperly if someone relied on common sense. You don't need a trainer for every session, just one or two sessions to learn the proper form and to make sure you are doing it right. Chris In a message dated 10/24/03 6:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > A personal > trainer would be great, but it isn't rocket science at the beginner > level. Just lift the amount that you have to stop after 10 repeats. > Move slow (you build more muscle and less injury potential) and > don't drop the weight on your foot. ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I just bought a book ( " The Firm " -- it has good exercises but it also recommends low fat, there are better books I'm sure) and a set of weights, and followed the directions. A personal trainer would be great, but it isn't rocket science at the beginner level. Just lift the amount that you have to stop after 10 repeats. Move slow (you build more muscle and less injury potential) and don't drop the weight on your foot. -- Heidi >Heidi and Chris > >How do I learn more about this type of lifting. I am considering finding a >personal trainer and I need to know what books to ask he or she has read. > >Joanne > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 i know alot who do ( propogate goign to failure for MAXIMUM benifit ) though alot of personal trainers initially dont have theri clients do that i find. well atleat this is what ive seen in australian gyms. training with superslow with uber heavy weights to failure( 100% immobile ) has atm broke my body. been a year in physio atm. it wasnt until i have bene injured ive found a way to train fro better strength without the failure _____ From: droolmaster0 [mailto:implode7@...] Sent: Saturday, 25 October 2003 3:03 AM Subject: Re: CR/F-F/etc-- Jafa > Joanne, > > I don't think you'll find a personal trainer anywhere who will recommend otherwise. Personal trainer's are certified, so they have to have basic knowledge. You don't necessarily have to listen to their dietary recommendations, but they'll know how to do the exercises, which is important. > > Squats are the most important exercise to do. > > Chris Forgive me if I haven't completely followed this thread, but are you saying that all personal trainers recommend training to failure? Or are you referring to something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Keep in mind that just because someone is a trainer doesn't mean you want them training you. Matter of fact lots of trainers will discourage you from squatting. Much like dieticians discouraging fat consumption. Sometimes excess education is a dangerous thing. As an addendum to locate a good trainer I'd suggest finding the gym rat section of your gym or a gym that is infested predominantly with gym rats and there you're likely to find a trainer who at least knows how to teach you how to squat properly. While your at it have them teach you how to deadlift too. From just a pure fitness perspective you could potentially stick to these two exercises exclusively and be better off than 85% of the rest of the folks in the gym. DMM > I disagree with this. If you want to do *good* exercises, you need to know > how to do them safely. Squat should be everyone's number one priority, but > proper form isn't common sense at all. > > Even arm curls with dumbells would be done improperly if someone relied on > common sense. > > You don't need a trainer for every session, just one or two sessions to learn > the proper form and to make sure you are doing it right. > > Chris > > In a message dated 10/24/03 6:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > heidis@t... writes: > > > A personal > > trainer would be great, but it isn't rocket science at the beginner > > level. Just lift the amount that you have to stop after 10 repeats. > > Move slow (you build more muscle and less injury potential) and > > don't drop the weight on your foot. > > > ____ > > " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a > heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and > animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them > make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, > which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of > the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray > ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those > who do them wrong. " > > --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 > > > Joanne, > > > > I don't think you'll find a personal trainer anywhere who will > recommend otherwise. Personal trainer's are certified, so they have > to have basic knowledge. You don't necessarily have to listen to > their dietary recommendations, but they'll know how to do the > exercises, which is important. > > > > Squats are the most important exercise to do. > > > > Chris > > Forgive me if I haven't completely followed this thread, but are you > saying that all personal trainers recommend training to failure? Or > are you referring to something else? I'm sorry for replying late. I'm not even sure who wrote this, as for some reason I haven't been getting many messages in my box the last few days, and found this on the website as quoted by anthony. Anyway, no, and I never suggested going to failure myself. I'm referring to using heavier weights, and the only time I mentioned failure was in reference to gauging the heaviness of the weight. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 > While your at it have them teach you how to deadlift too. > > From just a pure fitness perspective you could potentially stick to > these two exercises exclusively and be better off than 85% of the > rest of the folks in the gym. > > DMM I fully agree with this with two caveats. One, I'd add one more exercise such as bench press and/or dumbell inclines to work the upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. Second, for older women, or people in general who do not like bleeding, you may want to purchase knee pads if you are going to deadlift. I deadlift six times a month, and two out of three times I scrape up my knees. I personally don't mind gushing blood as long as I'm wearing old pants. Wearing pants instead of shorts usually prevents this, but last time I deadlifted, I wore pants, and I bled right through them. I also occasionally scrape my shins. The squat will *not* make you bleed though. Do it! Even if you just squat, and actually do it right, you'll be better off than pretty much everyone else in the gym. Bleeding knees is a sign of proper form for the deadlift, but knee pads should solve the problem. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 > upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body > otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. > The squat will *not* make you bleed though. Do it! Even if you just > squat, and actually do it right, you'll be better off than pretty > much everyone else in the gym. Bleeding knees is a sign of proper > form for the deadlift, but knee pads should solve the problem. > What about push ups for pecs? even modified 'girlie' ones? The bleeding knees sounds pretty interesting for a weight routine! Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Chris- >One, I'd add one more >exercise such as bench press and/or dumbell inclines to work the >upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body >otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. What about a side press? >Wearing pants instead of shorts usually >prevents this, but last time I deadlifted, I wore pants, and I bled >right through them. I also occasionally scrape my shins. Huh? Unless I'm forgetting something, your knees never touch the ground or anything else in a deadlift, so why are they supposed to bleed? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 , --- In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote: > Chris- > > >One, I'd add one more > >exercise such as bench press and/or dumbell inclines to work the > >upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body > >otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. > > What about a side press? What's a side press? I don't know much about weightlifting, but the only exercises I know that work your pecs specifically are bench press, dumbell inclines (or without the incline), buttefly press machines, vertical chest press machines, and dips. Side press might be one to add, but I don't know what it is! > Huh? Unless I'm forgetting something, your knees never touch the ground or > anything else in a deadlift, so why are they supposed to bleed? The bar scrapes against the knees, not the floor. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 LOL I've been deadlifting for years and never had so much as a bloody mary!!! Why are you bleeding? DMM > > While your at it have them teach you how to deadlift too. > > > > From just a pure fitness perspective you could potentially stick to > > these two exercises exclusively and be better off than 85% of the > > rest of the folks in the gym. > > > > DMM > > I fully agree with this with two caveats. One, I'd add one more > exercise such as bench press and/or dumbell inclines to work the > upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body > otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. > > Second, for older women, or people in general who do not like > bleeding, you may want to purchase knee pads if you are going to > deadlift. I deadlift six times a month, and two out of three times I > scrape up my knees. I personally don't mind gushing blood as long as > I'm wearing old pants. Wearing pants instead of shorts usually > prevents this, but last time I deadlifted, I wore pants, and I bled > right through them. I also occasionally scrape my shins. > > The squat will *not* make you bleed though. Do it! Even if you just > squat, and actually do it right, you'll be better off than pretty > much everyone else in the gym. Bleeding knees is a sign of proper > form for the deadlift, but knee pads should solve the problem. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Elaine, > What about push ups for pecs? even modified 'girlie' ones? Pushups are great for endurance, but don't do mcuh for strength and muscle mass. I suggest doing both. The bleeding > knees sounds pretty interesting for a weight routine! It does make it a little more fun. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hey , Side Press is a great exercise. But I've found very very hard for people to learn to do correctly. So generally just because of the learning curve I don't recommend it. DMM --- In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote: > Chris- > > >One, I'd add one more > >exercise such as bench press and/or dumbell inclines to work the > >upper chest. The squat and deadlift probably workout the entire body > >otherwise, but don't really hit the pecs much. > > What about a side press? > > >Wearing pants instead of shorts usually > >prevents this, but last time I deadlifted, I wore pants, and I bled > >right through them. I also occasionally scrape my shins. > > Huh? Unless I'm forgetting something, your knees never touch the ground or > anything else in a deadlift, so why are they supposed to bleed? > > > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 > LOL > > I've been deadlifting for years and never had so much as a > bloody mary!!! > > Why are you bleeding? From folks I've talked to, a small minority make the above claim. Deadlifts are supposed to be done with the bar close to you, and with your but out, and with your legs moving in addition to your back, as a sort of backwards squat. It's quite common with this form to scrape up your knees when you have two or three hundred or more pounds sliding against them. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 I have never heard of such a thing. You must've learned from some bleeding deadlift cult or something. The part about the bar being close of course is right, I just don't get the bleeding part. You must be using a particlarly very knarled bar (for grip) cuz I and others I trained with have been deadlifting 300+ like I said for years without so much as a scratch. I took a look at my olympic bar and it in fact has no knarles where it would come in contact with my legs. You might want to try it some time. DMM > > LOL > > > > I've been deadlifting for years and never had so much as a > > bloody mary!!! > > > > Why are you bleeding? > > From folks I've talked to, a small minority make the above claim. > Deadlifts are supposed to be done with the bar close to you, and with > your but out, and with your legs moving in addition to your back, as > a sort of backwards squat. It's quite common with this form to > scrape up your knees when you have two or three hundred or more > pounds sliding against them. > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Mike- Really? Rats. I haven't done it yet myself -- I'm still working on clearing out a room for some weights (and getting a little healthier before I start, too). >But I've found very very hard for >people to learn to do correctly. So generally just because of the >learning curve I don't recommend it. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 I don't recommend that people NOT do it. It is a very good exercise it just takes a bit more work and discipline to learn than most folks want or are able to put in. If you are gung ho to learn how and have someone who can help by all means do it. DMM --- In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote: > Mike- > > Really? Rats. I haven't done it yet myself -- I'm still working on > clearing out a room for some weights (and getting a little healthier before > I start, too). > > >But I've found very very hard for > >people to learn to do correctly. So generally just because of the > >learning curve I don't recommend it. > > > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Mike- >If you are gung ho to learn how and have someone who can help by all >means do it. I don't have anyone to show me, but I suppose when I'm ready to try I could go to an actual gym for long enough to learn. I just hate (HATE) gyms. I'd never exercise at all if gyms were the only way. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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