Re: Re: stock: to gel or not to gel

[Guest guest]

>Are you guys adding vinegar to the stock to help bring out the gelatin?

>

>Tom

I always add vinegar to bring out the minerals from the bones, but I wasn't

aware that it had anything to do with the gelatin.

-

[Guest guest]

Tom-

Yup.

>Are you guys adding vinegar to the stock to help bring out the gelatin?

-

[Guest guest]

>---------In NT Sally Fallon says farm-raised free-range chickens

>gel better than battery raised chickens, so there is definitely a

>recognized difference in the gel-ability of stocks from different

>animals raised different ways. But why some grass-fed meats

>would gel and others wouldn't-- I don't know. Did you add feet to

>your chicken stocks? Also, I was under the impression that the

>longer you cooked it, the more the collagen broke down into

>gelatin... maybe the flesh of different animals of varying

>constitutions and ages breaks down at different rates, and some

>need to be cooked longer to produce more gelatin.

>

Great observation, thanks! Could be cooking time, because I do vary that

somewhat, although last time I got a really good gelatinous stock it had

only cooked about 3 hours. I'll keep an eye on that.

I don't have a source of chicken feet, although I just located a kosher

butcher in town so I'll see if I can get ahold of some. I don't think I

ever saw a chicken foot in my life :-) What a sheltered existence!

-

[Guest guest]

i cooked 3 lamb shanks other week.

i put in tomatoe, some herbs in it ) and an onion

slow cooked the shanks for 43 hours for dinner

poorer some jiuce on the meat when i ate it that evening

poored rest into a bowl

and once it cooled was SO THICk was awesome

( couldnt beleive the flavour either )

_____

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 9:57 AM

Subject: Re: Re: stock: to gel or not to gel

Tom-

Yup.

>Are you guys adding vinegar to the stock to help bring out the gelatin?

-

[Guest guest]

-

Is that a typo, or did you cook the shanks for almost two days straight

around the clock? I don't think I've ever gotten shanks, so I don't know

what the cut is like, but the meat part of the shanks was actually edible

after all that cooking?

>slow cooked the shanks for 43 hours for dinner

-

[Guest guest]

yes im sorry that WAS a typo.

was meant to be 4 hours

i started teh cooking at 3pm on low heat and compelted it at 7pm

and i had the MOST tasty stock from it

and taht when it also cooled was such a thick jelly .

_____

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 10:13 AM

Subject: RE: Re: stock: to gel or not to gel

-

Is that a typo, or did you cook the shanks for almost two days straight

around the clock? I don't think I've ever gotten shanks, so I don't know

what the cut is like, but the meat part of the shanks was actually edible

after all that cooking?

>slow cooked the shanks for 43 hours for dinner

-

[Guest guest]

I don't know what

>country you live in, but there are a lot of Whole Foods stores in

>the U.S. Apparently they are the " secret " to successful,

>gelatin-rich, stock according to Jewish folklore.

>

Now I'll definitely have to check this out. I'm in NY but upstate so we

don't have Whole Foods, just the local health food store which doesn't have

much in the way of meats. But I'm glad you mentioned Jewish folklore,

because I've been wanting to connect more with my Jewish roots, after

having rebelled against it most of my life :-)

The rebellious time was spent in the NYC suburbs where I had great access

to all these foods but not the interest at the time!

I'll have to ask my mother what she remembers about chicken feet, having

come from a tradition of Jewish foods that faded out while I was growing up

when everything " modern " was considered better. I do remember her telling

me about eating shmalz when she was a kid, spreading it on bread! I do

love the fat from my stocks (couldn't believe how the flavor disappeared

when I once skimmed it off), but haven't gone so far as to use it as a

spread yet!

-

[Guest guest]

>I've always loved eating fat... the edges of

>steak,...chicken skin... licking mayonnaise off baloney...

Me too.. I guess you really have to love fat to be able to eat chicken skin

even after it's boiled for hours. And I've been known to eat mayo off a

spoon as a snack.

>Anyway, I just thought of a mail order source for chicken feet.

>Unfortunately, I haven't unpacked all my books so I can't tell you

>the website, but in the resources section in the back of Jordan

>Rubin's " Patient Heal Thyself " there is a company that will sell

>you feet. If anyone else reading this has the book, can you check

>the name of the farm?

I have his book on restoring digestive health, which migrated over to my

parents' house as all my books do, so I'll have to get it back and check. I

also have a mail order source for pastured meats in upstate NY, which I " ve

been very happy with in the past (Meadow Raised Meats,

www.meadowraisedmeats.com), but the shipping charges have been killing me,

so I haven't done that in a while. I'll have to check to see if she has

chicken feet, though, and I may just bite the bullet and do a one-time

order to last the winter.

-

[Guest guest]

>When I was living in Arlington, Virginia last year, I asked the local

>Whole Foods if they had anything like chicken hearts or feet. Nope,

>all they ever had was chicken livers. That was the extent of their

>'unusual' meats. I'd be surprised if more than a few WFs carried

>chicken feet.

>

>Tom

Try the Korean stores, or other ethnic places. I went into this little

hole-in-the-wall place in LA, and it was FULL of folks buying very

strange items. Including pig's blood. But the only hint I had of

what it sold was a sign out front in script I didn't recognize,

and a full parking lot in the middle of nowhere. Chicken feet

are a staple in those places.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>According to a book I have if you have too much liquid in relation to

>the meat, it won't gel. Don't cover your meat more than 3/4 of the

>way with water.

>You can still reduce it and it will gel.

Hmmm.. that's interesting. I always thought that if you didn't cover the

meat fully, you'd be flavoring the air rather than the stock. I usually use

a 6-qt soup pot for a whole chicken, so there's not room for a whole lot of

water anyway. I like to keep the stock more concentrated so I can always

dilute it a bit later if I want (which I end up never doing, because the

richer the taste the better!)

But I'll see what happens reducing it even more. And also keeping the

simmering temp lower (thanks ). Not easy to keep an even simmer going

on an electric stove, without adjusting it all the time.

-

[Guest guest]

, try the oven. I don't bother with my stovetop for this very reason, it's

too hard to regulate. In the oven one can set the temp and forget it.

Janet

But I'll see what happens reducing it even more. And also keeping the

simmering temp lower (thanks ). Not easy to keep an even simmer going

on an electric stove, without adjusting it all the time.

-

[Guest guest]

>According to a book I have if you have too much liquid in relation to

>the meat, it won't gel. Don't cover your meat more than 3/4 of the

>way with water.

>You can still reduce it and it will gel.

----->this hasn't been my experience at all. my stock ALWAYS gels these

days. i always use chicken feet and/or oxtail. oxtail alone will gel a

stock...at least that's been my experience. i also boil it at least once and

often cook it for a couple of days. i haven't noticed any difference in the

gel-ability relating to cooking time, temp, etc. as long as i've got chicken

feet/oxtails in there...it gels.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

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