Dreams and Reality

[Guest guest]

Mel started out:

<<....... As I have mentioned on several occasions, a great deal of what we

do in life and sport appears to rely on some inner virtual reality,

imagineering, guesswork or anticipation. Once more the Eastern or aboriginal

idea of " living in the moment " would appear to be far more of a belief than

reality, especially since acting in the moment would imply that no

imagineering or anticipatory protective mechanisms could operate. More and

more research appears to be revealing that we need to live more in the

moment before every moment.... >>

Mel Siff:

*** Just a short note for some who have in private letters to me seem to have

misunderstood the actual meaning of the word, " aboriginal " , I chose this

term specially since it comes from the Latin " ab- " (from) and " origo " (the

beginning or source). In other words, " aboriginal " peoples are the original

inhabitants of any country and may be of any ethnic or racial source. I

included " aboriginal " and Eastern groups because the former groups often had

philosophies of time, space, human co-existence and morality which predated

similar ones of the East by thousands of years (e.g., the San or 'Bushmen' of

Southern Africa and the aboriginal folks of Australasia). The Hopi Native

Americans have some especially interesting concepts of the different types

of " time " (manifest and non-manifest), so that it is apparent that not all

peoples on Earth believe in a time which " flows " . About 20 years ago,

" Scientific American " also published an article on the psychology of time,

while Dr Hawking wrote a best-selling book on the nature of time

several years ago.

Jerry Telle wrote:

<When one conceptualizes the process, how else could we get through life? Is

this so obvious to everyone else on this list (who follows this thread) that

its not worth mentioning? I'm 99% sure we are *always* acting in accord to

future predictions and " fed forward " projections.

As you/we pointed out previously the " moment " is only a minuscule reference

point in the middle of all the observations, projections, energizing,

actions and learning occurring at that moment!

I can't let this die. I can assure everyone this focus on the future not the

past (including symbolic/wrod processes) will be the thrust in

Psycho-sociology in the future.>

Mel Siff:

*** Let's just add that " time " is also a rather " fuzzy " entity and that the

concept of a discrete and invariant single moment frozen in event space

really only exists in mathematics, just as is the case with a " point " in

space. Though we talk so casually about a single " point " or a point with

precise coordinates (thanks to Descartes), an infinitesimally tiny dot with

no dimensions in any direction is solely a mental concept and has no real

existence. I would recomment reading books like Hawking's " Time " to

explore the concept of time (vs its " reality " ) more thoroughly.

Jerry Telle:

<All one has to do to is observe ones self watching a movie--preferably a

movie already scene (sic). Why would we get anxious when something

horrible(or good) is about to happen? Some folks switch channels, cover eyes

and or ears, and yet this is so simple most just pass it off as normal(which

it is). But delve deeper into the phenom and one recognizes that predicting

what is to happen and anticipating what one is going to do when the

predictions manifest--is the process in place--with hearts racing as the

dreaded event nears--even jumping--twitching somewhere outside of concious

awareness !

I remember the first time I thought I was psychic--lying on some beach in

Mexico listening to a well-worn tape of movie scores. For some reason I was

" into the moment " of music and the gaps between recordings--when I noticed my

mind started playing the next score--before it actually started. Now if you

can appreciate my recording methods in those days--there might be 10-30

seconds between pieces!>

Mel Siff:

*** There are many books and research article on how " altered states "

(induced by reverie, daydreaming, drugs, fatigue, extreme emotions,

meditation, pain or " bliss " - ananda in Sanscrit) can dramatically alter

one's experience of time, objects and space. A great deal of religious and

spiritual material comes from the experiences of sages who spontaneously have

entered such states, as well as many scientific discoveries (e.g., see

Koestler " Act of Creation).

Unfortunately, today, far too little permission is granted by society and

educational systems to experience, explore and use such states in a more

productive manner. While many altered states, such as those induced by

alcohol and many drugs, tend to be very destructive, the more natural forms

of altered state often tend to be regarded as useless daydreaming, signs of

petit mal epilepsy, senility or dozy nothingness. In more aboriginal,

primitive (from " prino " meaning the " first " ) or philosophical societies, the

power of the dream and altered state was accorded much more respect and

recognised as a potential source of useful (yes, and alos some useless)

information.

Just from my personal point of view, I have found that I have learned a great

deal or been pointed in the right direction towards useful knowledge by

different altered states, so, after reading that many other scientists of far

greater capability than I have also used such states to produce ideas and

solve problems, I have no doubt that productive altered states have always

played a very important role in the evolution of knowledge. In the Preface

to my PhD I even remarked in scientific terms on the role played in my own

research by such states, so much so that I almost felt guilty that I

sometimes had to do very little work in solving some very complex problems.

Einstein also remarked that his thinking was punctuated by the use of

processes such as intuition, motor action or what you will that seemed to

have no logical link to the processes of normal thought or functioning.

Possibly so many people today, especially our youth, instinctively seem to

sense the allure and power of the altered state lurking there deep within and

therefore do anything (most usually something silly and unsafe) to enter such

states and explore that uncharted and often exciting territory. This may

explain why certain drugs like alcohol and tobacco have been legitimised and

others have been banned - humans have always felt the urge to change their

state of consciousness to experience pleasure or pain-pleasure or even just

to " do something different " to excite the senses and the inner representation

of those senses.

So, those who control the sale or distribution of legitimate drugs control

the behaviour of societies, while those who sell " illegitimate " drugs

threaten this control, so that there will always be a clash between the two

opposing behaviour control parties. What society does not do is expose our

youth to free and far safer methods of altering one's state, such as

meditation and when this has been done by some materialistic or power-hungry

gurus like the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and various other yogi in the West, this

has been done for largely commercial or power-seeking purposes.

In somewhat different form, the altered state has also been exploited in

religious, voodoo or evangelic settings, where sudden changes in

consciousness induced by the group setting, persuasive word massaging, music,

chanting, hypnotic strategies and environmental cues have been interpreted as

direct visitations by the divine. All of this is a direct descendant of

ancient prehistoric rituals that have been presided over by shamans, witch

doctors, high priests or sages over the ages. If only our societies would be

taught more about the science and practice of the altered state to enhance

learning, performance and health, we could dramatically cut down on the use

of drugs and eliminate many of our laws used in vain attempts to control

instinctive human leanings towards drug use and anti-social behaviour.

Jerry Telle:

<That's a huge span in " play ahead " time. I remember thinking " I really am

someone special " ! Just as I was about to jump up and find a gambling parlor I

realized I could only " mind predict " the future--if I had already " scene " it

before! Some folks I queried have had the same experience--my biologist

sister just chalked it off to habit!! Well duh!

How is any of this different from our lives--our lives grounded in past

created habits? If our lives are really about the future why do spend so much

time studying the past--if said insights are to change the future. My take

is many/most insights of the past only cement the habitual nature of learned

events. We have to " see " the future we seek--like every athlete (since

Milo?) I've ever known has done. Better yet we have to " s-experience " " the

future we seek. " This means *AN ACTIVE FOCUS ON THE FUTURE TO DETERMINE THE

PRESENT* I'll bet Milo had that written on his bull yard " corner stone " .

And the focus has to be of the " bodily (not mind) passions " .

Pleasure/good/euphoric seeking-pain avoidant behavior drives change and

maintainence. Every living " thing " knows that. Yet how often do we conjure up

those sensory/emotional-feeling experiences associated with " goals " and LINK

them, in conscious awareness, directly in " virtual association " ? to our

future desired actions? I've heard and read " lip service " to this

effect--but the strategies to do so reveal the meaningless of quivering lips.

Anticipated rewards (including pain avoidant expectations) is/are the forces

of change an acceleration. Habit then maintains inertia, more or less,

friction free until an " active " force acts on said inertia.

Almost everything we do is similar to what we did the day before. There is a

movie (rather an experience) playing in our heads showing us what is to

happen AND what we are going to about it. We imitate its lead like a willing

orchestra. We " flash " everything we do in ms before we do it. The nearer in

time/space, to the future " moment " the more we are dictated by our

predictions, and projected actions--flashed before we act!

The more " displaced in time " our predictions on the distant event

horizon--the more " fuzzy " ambiguous? Amorphic? the predictions and projected

actions. By and large we don't make " moment to moment " decisions but carry

out " momentary " actions planned and projected into the future the minute,

hour, day, years before.

Just an ole broke down weightlifter dreaming of " Past bull and future Bulls "

Some dis/agreement-feedback would be nice!! >

*** No disagreement - you are simply elaborating on exactly what I was

pointing out in my original letter. Like you, I am very surprised that so

many of the ancient sages made such a " big deal " about living " in the moment "

and appeared to misinterpret the concept of " time " or something called time

which helps us describe changes in ourselves and the universe around us.

Maybe those who translated and interpreted what the Ancients wrote were the

ones who were responsible for the misunderstandings, largely because they

had to relate ancient thoughts to their own more recent reference systems.

In science, we refer to the four basic measures of the physical universe -

MTLQ (Mass, Time, Length and Electrical Charge). Three of the measures refer

to the nature of any system or object, but the remaining dimension, namely

Time, is the only one which directly refers to change in the universe.

Einstein then linked space and time to show that there might not even be the

need for a distinction between the two, but constitute a single entity

called " space-time " . Thus, fields like gravity " emerge " from some

topological distortion in the intangible space-time fabric of the universe.

And all, we will then note stems from some altered state of conceptualising

the inner and the outer universe.

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/