Re: WHEN does kefir go to alcohol from curds & whey state (please)? candida loves alcohol

[Guest guest]

>...and how can i best tell when this would be so? some of my kefir that had

been coming out nice, thick, creamy and sweet, by almost the exact same

process--except this time i used fresh grains instead of already cultured

product--is now coming out thin and sour-ish. has a very slight alcohol-y taste

to it. (i have some that had pretty much gone to alcohol to compare it to, and

some cultured whey that went too long that also has that alcohol-y taste.

My kefir has always been thick and sweet (VERY VERY thick, for that matter).

Others here have said theirs is usually thick and not sour. But I've also heard

a lot of kefir folks say theirs is thin and sour, sometimes very sour, and the

Helios I've bought I would characterize as thin and sour. It might be a matter

of comparison. Some people who HAD thin/sour kefir were able to make it thicker

and creamier by doing part of the culturing in the fridge, and when mine started

to go thin I put the kefir container in a bucket of water to lower the temp on

hot days. A number of people have had their kefir go through changes ... Dom

says this is normal.

I don't think either is bad for you. A lot of people describe their kefir as

tangy and fizzy even. It all depends on the bacterial mix, and with raw milk,

what other bacteria are in the milk and maybe what nutrients (cow vs. goat, for

instance). Some people LIKE tangy/sour/thin. If you like it thicker, you might

need to experiment. From listening to people and my own experiments, it seems

the " thick " bacteria tend to like cooler temps, but if you get the right strain,

it will make thick kefir at any temp.

As for alcohol, all kefir supposedly has a slight alcohol content, but the folks

who have used it for candida say it is quite effective. I'm not sure what all

feeds candida (alcohol kills most yeasts if there is a lot of it, it is a waste

byproduct to them, not food -- maybe when you body metabolizes the alcohol the

resulting glucose is food?) but kefir decidedly kills candida.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I don't know about that Heidi. I was making kefir that was thick and

yummy and then my grains died. I got a new batch from another source

and it turned out sour and thin. It definitely had more yeast in it

as it had an alcohol flavour, the other one didn't. The one I have

now has made me really unwell. I posted my dissapointment on the

kefir making site and they said that it depends on the temp etc as

to whether it is yeasty or not.

I have a compromised immune system and I react or get an overgorwth

of anything that is not good for the body, quite easily. I have

systemic candida and it is now worse after consuming kefir for mnay

weeks. I kept thinking it was a die off, but I was just getting

worse.

So, I guess some kefir has different strains in it to others or some

kefir has more of one strain than the other- in terms of more yeast

that lactic bacteria. All are supposed to be beneficial but I don't

think so. I have looked at some of the strains on the net and some

are harmful to the body. I think it is alright if your body is in

good working order or I should say able to cope with the yeast and

different strains of candida in it. So, I am thinking of giving it

up.

Hunter...

In , Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@t...> wrote:

>

> >...and how can i best tell when this would be so? some of my

kefir that had been coming out nice, thick, creamy and sweet, by

almost the exact same process--except this time i used fresh grains

instead of already cultured product--is now coming out thin and sour-

ish. has a very slight alcohol-y taste to it. (i have some that had

pretty much gone to alcohol to compare it to, and some cultured whey

that went too long that also has that alcohol-y taste.

>

> My kefir has always been thick and sweet (VERY VERY thick, for

that matter). Others here have said theirs is usually thick and not

sour. But I've also heard a lot of kefir folks say theirs is thin

and sour, sometimes very sour, and the Helios I've bought I would

characterize as thin and sour. It might be a matter of comparison.

Some people who HAD thin/sour kefir were able to make it thicker and

creamier by doing part of the culturing in the fridge, and when mine

started to go thin I put the kefir container in a bucket of water to

lower the temp on hot days. A number of people have had their kefir

go through changes ... Dom says this is normal.

>

> I don't think either is bad for you. A lot of people describe

their kefir as tangy and fizzy even. It all depends on the bacterial

mix, and with raw milk, what other bacteria are in the milk and

maybe what nutrients (cow vs. goat, for instance). Some people LIKE

tangy/sour/thin. If you like it thicker, you might need to

experiment. From listening to people and my own experiments, it

seems the " thick " bacteria tend to like cooler temps, but if you get

the right strain, it will make thick kefir at any temp.

>

> As for alcohol, all kefir supposedly has a slight alcohol content,

but the folks who have used it for candida say it is quite

effective. I'm not sure what all feeds candida (alcohol kills most

yeasts if there is a lot of it, it is a waste byproduct to them, not

food -- maybe when you body metabolizes the alcohol the resulting

glucose is food?) but kefir decidedly kills candida.

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>So, I guess some kefir has different strains in it to others or some

>kefir has more of one strain than the other- in terms of more yeast

>that lactic bacteria. All are supposed to be beneficial but I don't

>think so. I have looked at some of the strains on the net and some

>are harmful to the body. I think it is alright if your body is in

>good working order or I should say able to cope with the yeast and

>different strains of candida in it. So, I am thinking of giving it

>up.

>

>Hunter...

It certainly might not get along with you. We had two strains ...

the thin sour one and now my kefiili, which is REALLY thick

and not sour. I also had a couple that seemed unhealthy and didn't

taste good at all. And some people DO react to yeasts, depending

on the strain of yeast! Kefir DOES pick up other strains of

stuff -- mine sure did -- though it seems remarkably benign in

general. Fermented foods create a LOT of chemicals too, and

some people react to those.

My main comment was that I don't think the alcohol content

would be a culprit as far as candida overgrowth. But you

can test that too, if you want, with a shot of good vodka ...

I can't test it, I don't have candida AFAIK and the symptoms

I had that were similar to candida ended up being allergy

related. (Hence wine does not give me symptoms, but beer

does!).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

--- Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

wrote: >

> My kefir has always been thick and sweet (VERY VERY

> thick, for that matter). Others here have said

> theirs is usually thick and not sour.

Mine is thick and sour, and I always let it go to

curds and whey (mainly because the grains just keep on

growing and I don't have a bigger container, nor do I

want more kefir).

My kitchen is pretty cold at this time of year, and I

have heard that kefir brewed ina cooler environment

is usually thicker than when done in a warm one.

Also, the sourness is a function of how long it has

been fermenting - ie the amount of lactose that has

been converted to lactic acid.

Jo

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[Guest guest]

>> My kefir has always been thick and sweet (VERY VERY

>> thick, for that matter). Others here have said

>> theirs is usually thick and not sour.

>

>Mine is thick and sour, and I always let it go to

>curds and whey (mainly because the grains just keep on

>growing and I don't have a bigger container, nor do I

>want more kefir).

>

>My kitchen is pretty cold at this time of year, and I

>have heard that kefir brewed ina cooler environment

>is usually thicker than when done in a warm one.

I think that is a big part of it. Mine is thinner when

it is warmer, and thickens more in the fridge. But

it also got contaminated with viili, and THAT really

changed it, instantly. So different people might

have slightly different cultures, and if you get

raw milk, you might pick up different " thick/thin "

bacteria too. The thick bacteria seem to flourish

in cooler temps.

>Also, the sourness is a function of how long it has

>been fermenting - ie the amount of lactose that has

>been converted to lactic acid.

I agree. And inversely to thickness. When lactose is

metabolized by bacteria and yeast, it can produce

lactic acid, polysaccharides, or alcohol. The yeast

produce the alcohol, one set of bacteria produce

LA, and the other set produce polysaccharides (thick

stuff). And there are other chemicals too that add

aroma etc. It all depends on which microorganisms

are acting faster than others ... you can get more

ethanol, more thick, or more sour for the same

amount of lactose but it's mainly balanced between

those three substances.

-- Heidi