RE: honey and sports nutrition

[Guest guest]

I've been wondering that exact question. After your workout, the

'goal' is to spike insulin in order to gain muscle mass. So if the

insulin spike is simply going to increased muscle mass (and not extra

fat)there seems little unhealthy about it. To what extent this is

true, I have no idea. Wish I knew though.

-

> i just read this article from one of the links michael posted recently.

> http://www.nhb.org/download/research/honeyandsportsnutrition.pdf

apparently

> some studies have been done on honey as a CHO (carb) source before,

during

> and after exercise. honey was lower on the glycemic index yet didn't

produce

> inferior results to sugars high on the glycemic index. they also

found that

> CHO plus whey resulted in the best glycogen recovery and also produced

> growth hormone among other benefits. they found a 3:1 ratio

(CHO:protein)

> worked best.

>

> so i was thinking that a post workout recovery shake of some REAL

whey mixed

> with some raw honey might be good. the point is to get it to your

muscles

> ASAP so adding fat would be counter-productive. would a small daily

insulin

> shot like that be harmful over the long haul? any comments?

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. "

--

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Suze,

do you think having a good yoghurt with raw honey would do the trick? [asking on

behalf of my son who plays for a semi-pro b.ball team]

TIA

Dedy

honey and sports nutrition

i just read this article from one of the links michael posted recently.

http://www.nhb.org/download/research/honeyandsportsnutrition.pdf apparently

some studies have been done on honey as a CHO (carb) source before, during

and after exercise. honey was lower on the glycemic index yet didn't produce

inferior results to sugars high on the glycemic index. they also found that

CHO plus whey resulted in the best glycogen recovery and also produced

growth hormone among other benefits. they found a 3:1 ratio (CHO:protein)

worked best.

so i was thinking that a post workout recovery shake of some REAL whey mixed

with some raw honey might be good. the point is to get it to your muscles

ASAP so adding fat would be counter-productive. would a small daily insulin

shot like that be harmful over the long haul? any comments?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>>>do you think having a good yoghurt with raw honey would do the trick?

[asking on behalf of my son who plays for a semi-pro b.ball team]

----->dedy, i think it would be beneficial, but probably not as much as just

whey and honey in terms of restoring glycogen and muscle recovery because

the fat would slow down the digestion of the carbs and protein. the idea is

to get them to the muscles quickly in terms of the recovery phase -

according to the study i posted the greatest benefit was when it was

digested within an hour after the workout, IIRC.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze,

If you don't get an insulin surge after a workout you will not effectively gain

muscle. It will absolutely not be harmful.

The insulin surge doesn't need to be right after the workout. If you don't do

your workout before your main meal, you want 15-30 g of protein with 5-10 grams

of carbs, and then get your insulin surge with your main meal.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>>>>The insulin surge doesn't need to be right after the workout.

------>isn't that when it's most beneficial, though? the study i posted

found it was most beneficial if you get the insulin surge within 1 hour of

the workout.

>>>If you don't do your workout before your main meal, you want 15-30 g of

protein with 5-10 grams of carbs, and then get your insulin surge with your

main meal.

----->are you saying take the protein and carbs after your workout IF you

workout after your main meal, but get your main insulin surge with the meal?

your figures are the reverse of what the honey/whey study found since they

found a 3:1 ratio of CHO to protein to be most beneficial in terms of

glycogen recovery, IIRC.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/03 12:00:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ------>isn't that when it's most beneficial, though? the study i posted

> found it was most beneficial if you get the insulin surge within 1 hour of

> the workout.

I think it depends. The protein after the workout is definitely necessary,

as well as some carbs. Ideally you would do your workout before your meal, so

you get the benefits of both. However, continued undereating after the

workout will potentiate a higher anabolic activity to be stimulated by the

insulin

later on, if the workout is done during the day.

>

> >>>If you don't do your workout before your main meal, you want 15-30 g of

> protein with 5-10 grams of carbs, and then get your insulin surge with your

> main meal.

>

> ----->are you saying take the protein and carbs after your workout IF you

> workout after your main meal, but get your main insulin surge with the meal?

no no, you should NEVER work out *after* your main meal, ever. you should

always workout during the day, before your meal, but preferably *soon* before

your meal rather than way before your meal. OR if you exercise first thing in

the morning, which is also good, you want to eat a protein-rich snack, mostly

to prevent your aminos from dropping, and get a big insulin surge at night.

If you exercise regularly, and you get insulin surges both during the day and

during the night, your going to end up with chronically elevated insulin,

which is not a good thing.

> your figures are the reverse of what the honey/whey study found since they

> found a 3:1 ratio of CHO to protein to be most beneficial in terms of

> glycogen recovery, IIRC.

Yeah, but they aren't comparing this to the much more beneficial system of

cyclical under and over eating. Besides, who cares if your glycogen is restored

right after a workout? All that matters is that glycogen is restored before

the next strength workout.

It's not my figures, they're Ori's. BTW, from my own research, blood aminos

drop way down about 1.5 to 2 hours after a workout if no protein is eaten, and

this is much more important than glycogen depletion. Temporary glycogen

depletion is probably a good thing.

Chris