Re: Candida & Iron (dangers of iron)

October 11, 2003

Dear Dedy,

Regarding iron you might want to check out Ray Peat's article " Iron's

Dangers, Part 1 & 2 at: http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/nutri.html

The question whether candida causes low iron or low iron brings on

candidiasis - it could be both, but there are many more important

factors to consider than just iron. As you probably know candidiasis

is the result of a depressed immune system, not the other way around.

Candida interferes with absorption of all nutrients, including iron.

I would only supplement with iron if your lab tests show that you

need it.

I hope this helps.

Bee

> thanks ,

> alas my experience is that the more iron I take, over longer

periods, the more often and severe my candidiasis episodes become...

it seems like the iron 'feeds' the candida...

>

> it's a bit of a 'chicken or egg' situation... none of the docs

I've seen seem to know if candidaisis causes low iron or low iron

brings on candidaisis....

>

> Dedy

>

> Re: Digest Number 1796

>

> Low Iron causes candida, (this is why women get this more than

men.) when

> taking Iron, the candida die, causing die off. This could be

worth your

> persisting with (taking iron) for a few weeks to see if you

improve after

> this initial period.

>

> >

> > <<which auto-immune diseases did you have?>>

> > ----- Sarcoidosis [17 yrs ago] and CFS [since 1995]... another

immune related

> > problem of diminishing levels of serum ferritin and blood iron

remains

> > unresolved... any supplemental iron in whichever form causes

mild to severe

> > candidiasis.. all the docs can say is that it's an immune

problem... living in

> > the UK; I'm still waiting for my appointment with the

immunologist!

> > if anyone on the list has any ideas re my iron/ferritin

problems... 'I'm all

> > ears'...

>

October 13, 2003

Hi Bee,

thanks for your suggestions.

<<Regarding iron you might want to check out Ray Peat's article " Iron's Dangers,

Part 1 & 2 at: http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/nutri.html>>

----yes, I've read Peat's article last summer... i'm so low on stored iron

[serum ferritin]and blood iron, there's no danger of iron overload for me...

having read his article, I kinda stopped being obsessed by bringing my iron

levels up to 'normal'...

am still interested to TRY and understand why my body is not absorbing iron

properly... a B12 deficiency was detected at the same time as the iron one but

taking supplements corrected that fairly quickly... seems my body is absorbing

nutrients except iron... maybe the candida is just 'gobbling' up all the iron up

before it can be stored... don't know...

<<As you probably know candidiasis is the result of a depressed immune system,

not the other way around.>>

---- my personal experience would support that.... I need to do more to boost my

immune system.

<<The question whether candida causes low iron or low iron brings on candidiasis

- it could be both, but there are many more important factors to consider than

just iron.>>

----- what factors are you referring to Bee?

<<Candida interferes with absorption of all nutrients, including iron. I would

only supplement with iron if your lab tests show that you need it.>>

---- the tests showed ---

* serum ferritin is at 7 [ug/L] normal range 20-300,

* iron - 9.0 umol/L - normal range 9.0-29.0, so that's right on the border line,

the

haematologist said will likely to go down, need monitoring.

* HB 12.4 -- somehow my body manages to keep the haemoglobin at just about

normal levels

* transferrin - 3.4 g/L normal range 1.7-3.4 -- no problem there

so there is an indication for supplementing with iron yet when I do it is NOT

absorbed or boosts the iron stores AND the candida proliferates!!!

Dedy

October 13, 2003

valeria wrote--

<<which auto-immune diseases did you have?>>

> ----- Sarcoidosis [17 yrs ago] and CFS [since 1995]...

----------------how did you get rid nutritionally of CFS?

* GLUTEN - cutting it out was the first step... made a BIG difference within

about 3 weeks.

* PALEO - chanced upon some info re paleo eating... noticed similarities with

anti-candida diets which I've been familiar with... researched more and changed

diet accordingly... tied in with Dr. Mercola's no-grain info. and Dr. Katz paleo

info [when he was still a med. student][www.tbkfitness.org] read Neanderthin by

Ray Audette.

* NT & WAPF - got the NT book... read most of 'Nutrition and Physical

Degeneration', tied in all the loose ends regarding quality of fats, coconut

products, grass-fed meat, raw dairy products, no soy etc.

on the whole I eat mostly a combi paleo/NT diet... as much as I love dairy it

doesn't agree with me much so try to keep it to a minimum and to goat's and

ewe's milk products.... also I keep an eye on the glycemic load/index of food

stuffs as those high on the index do affect me adversely.

if you wish to know more, just ask...

Dedy

October 13, 2003

Dedy, were you ever a vegetarian? I know several vegetarians who

have lost the ability to absorb iron. I was veggie for years and

years and I have low iron. Had low B12 but had an injection.

I'm sure you know about this connection though, you all seem so

knowledgeable here.

Filippa

" Rundle " <Dpdg@b...> wrote:

> Hi Bee,

> thanks for your suggestions.

> <<Regarding iron you might want to check out Ray Peat's

article " Iron's Dangers, Part 1 & 2 at:

http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/nutri.html>>

> ----yes, I've read Peat's article last summer... i'm so low on

stored iron [serum ferritin]and blood iron, there's no danger of

iron overload for me... having read his article, I kinda stopped

being obsessed by bringing my iron levels up to 'normal'...

>

> am still interested to TRY and understand why my body is not

absorbing iron properly... a B12 deficiency was detected at the same

time as the iron one but taking supplements corrected that fairly

quickly... seems my body is absorbing nutrients except iron... maybe

the candida is just 'gobbling' up all the iron up before it can be

stored... don't know...

>

> <<As you probably know candidiasis is the result of a depressed

immune system, not the other way around.>>

> ---- my personal experience would support that.... I need to do

more to boost my immune system.

>

> <<The question whether candida causes low iron or low iron brings

on candidiasis - it could be both, but there are many more important

factors to consider than just iron.>>

> ----- what factors are you referring to Bee?

>

> <<Candida interferes with absorption of all nutrients, including

iron. I would only supplement with iron if your lab tests show that

you need it.>>

> ---- the tests showed ---

> * serum ferritin is at 7 [ug/L] normal range 20-300,

> * iron - 9.0 umol/L - normal range 9.0-29.0, so that's right on

the border line, the

> haematologist said will likely to go down, need monitoring.

> * HB 12.4 -- somehow my body manages to keep the haemoglobin at

just about

> normal levels

> * transferrin - 3.4 g/L normal range 1.7-3.4 -- no problem there

>

> so there is an indication for supplementing with iron yet when I

do it is NOT absorbed or boosts the iron stores AND the candida

proliferates!!!

>

> Dedy

>

October 13, 2003

YEP ! ! ! .... for 21 'soyfull' years... like you said in the other post... I

managed to ruin my health on 'health-foods'...

jokes aside... I find your <<I know several vegetarians who have lost the

ability to absorb iron>> interesting and intriguing... do you have any hard

data regarding this?... is it treatable?... reversible?.... what are the

implications if this is the case with me?... how do I find out if I lost

'it'?... how does this differ from my B12 deficiency which HAS been corrected by

supplements?....

Dedy

if you really can't get Amazake in Oz contact me off list

Re: Candida & Iron (dangers of iron)

Dedy, were you ever a vegetarian? I know several vegetarians who

have lost the ability to absorb iron. I was veggie for years and

years and I have low iron. Had low B12 but had an injection.

I'm sure you know about this connection though, you all seem so

knowledgeable here.

Filippa

" Rundle " <Dpdg@b...> wrote:

> Hi Bee,

> thanks for your suggestions.

> <<Regarding iron you might want to check out Ray Peat's

article " Iron's Dangers, Part 1 & 2 at:

http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/nutri.html>>

> ----yes, I've read Peat's article last summer... i'm so low on

stored iron [serum ferritin]and blood iron, there's no danger of

iron overload for me... having read his article, I kinda stopped

being obsessed by bringing my iron levels up to 'normal'...

>

> am still interested to TRY and understand why my body is not

absorbing iron properly... a B12 deficiency was detected at the same

time as the iron one but taking supplements corrected that fairly

quickly... seems my body is absorbing nutrients except iron... maybe

the candida is just 'gobbling' up all the iron up before it can be

stored... don't know...

>

> <<As you probably know candidiasis is the result of a depressed

immune system, not the other way around.>>

> ---- my personal experience would support that.... I need to do

more to boost my immune system.

>

> <<The question whether candida causes low iron or low iron brings

on candidiasis - it could be both, but there are many more important

factors to consider than just iron.>>

> ----- what factors are you referring to Bee?

>

> <<Candida interferes with absorption of all nutrients, including

iron. I would only supplement with iron if your lab tests show that

you need it.>>

> ---- the tests showed ---

> * serum ferritin is at 7 [ug/L] normal range 20-300,

> * iron - 9.0 umol/L - normal range 9.0-29.0, so that's right on

the border line, the

> haematologist said will likely to go down, need monitoring.

> * HB 12.4 -- somehow my body manages to keep the haemoglobin at

just about

> normal levels

> * transferrin - 3.4 g/L normal range 1.7-3.4 -- no problem there

>

> so there is an indication for supplementing with iron yet when I

do it is NOT absorbed or boosts the iron stores AND the candida

proliferates!!!

>

> Dedy

>

October 14, 2003

" Rundle " <Dpdg@b...> wrote:

> YEP ! ! ! .... for 21 'soyfull' years... like you said in the

other post... I managed to ruin my health on 'health-foods'...

>

> jokes aside... I find your <<I know several vegetarians who have

lost the ability to absorb iron>> interesting and intriguing... do

you have any hard data regarding this?... is it treatable?...

reversible?.... what are the implications if this is the case with

me?... how do I find out if I lost 'it'?... how does this differ

from my B12 deficiency which HAS been corrected by supplements?....

>

> Dedy

Dedy, a friend told me in conversation that her doctor has told her

that she's lost the ability to absorb iron and is having iron

injections which I've heard are bad news (Ray Peat's article but

I've also heard that his qualifications are questionable so I don't

know). Another friend was severely anaemic (went veggo with me at

14) and took massive iron supplements during her pregnancy. Well now

the baby has all sorts of health problems which may or may not be

related. I've heard of others but it's only hearsay. I don't

believe anything is irreversible, I wonder if it's even just the

doctor taking the easy road by giving her iron injections. She did

see a dietician but I can imagine what that was like.

I'm not anaemic but borderline. I'm still working myself up to more

meat, managing it about once a week at the moment. But I'm psyching

myself into doing daily raw liver tonics for a while.

Regarding B12 deficiency. I've still got loads of B12 floating

around in my blood from the injection I had 3 years ago, but I

wonder what that's manufactured from and whether it acts as food-

source B12 would do.

Sorry I can't give you any hard facts. I just stored the comment in

my brain as yet more evidence that one can't be a healthy vegetarian.

>

> if you really can't get Amazake in Oz contact me off list

Thanks for your generosity, I'm sure if I go looking I will find

it. I'm definitely going to go ferriting, if not for the Amazake,

then the koji culture.

Best of luck with your iron quest and I'd love to know what you find

out.

Filippa

October 14, 2003

In a message dated 10/14/03 4:39:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

filippa91@... writes:

> (Ray Peat's article but

> I've also heard that his qualifications are questionable so I don't

> know).

What do you mean? He has a PhD in physiology.

Chris

October 17, 2003

Hi Dedy, thanks for your answer. I would like to know something more:

Rundle <Dpdg@...> wrote:

valeria wrote--

<>

> ----- Sarcoidosis [17 yrs ago] and CFS [since 1995]...

----------------how did you get rid nutritionally of CFS?

* GLUTEN - cutting it out was the first step... made a BIG difference within

about 3 weeks.

------------------ What happened during these 3 weeks before you started feeling

better? Did you have at the beginning any kind of worsening of your symproms?

And did you eat other carbs instead of grains? I ask, because it seems to me

that sourdough bread is the only thing that helps me against bloating bowel, and

every time I try to give it up, I feel worse (especially with boating bowel).

And why did you think gluten was the culprit? Did you make any analysis about

that, or you just tried? Could you also tell me how a daily food intake looks

like for you? And also another question: did you suffered of a kind of brain-fog

when fatigued?

Thanks for the answer, Valeria

Dedy

October 17, 2003

Valeria wrote --

<<What happened during these 3 weeks before you started feeling better? Did you

have at the beginning any kind of worsening of your symptoms? >>

-------- except for feeling better by the day nothing happened... that was

plenty for me though...

<<And did you eat other carbs instead of grains?>>

----- you betcha... I felt I had to compensate by way of making desserts from

cornflour with lots of maple syrup or sugar, rice puddings etc.. still, I just

kept getting better and the weight started dropping off too...

<<I ask, because it seems to me that sourdough bread is the only thing that

helps me against bloating bowel, and every time I try to give it up, I feel

worse (especially with boating bowel).>>

----- don't know about that... I bloat with ANY gluten containing grains and the

worst for me is oats for some reason though it's the lowest in gluten... I also

become visibly puffier when I eat gluten...

<<And why did you think gluten was the culprit? Did you make any analysis about

that, or you just tried?>>

----- read in the paper a small news item that 75% of CFS sufferers in the US

[i'm in the UK BTW] were found to be gluten intolerant... thought to myself I

can do it! had nothing to loose.. knew enough to know what to eliminate...

'lets cut it out and see what happens'... the rest is history...

<<Could you also tell me how a daily food intake looks like for you?>>

it varies... I always have strong black coffee in the morning [organic,

fair-trade from Papua New-Guinea so at least it's doing someone some good, LOL]

then I eat a piece of fruit... about 2 hours later I'll have maybe an omelette

with chorizo and pickles or just chorizo or grab some venison jerky or eat last

night's leftovers... might have soup for lunch or salad or guacamole or sardines

in chilli olive oil with chopped cucumber... it all depends on whether I'm at

home working or have to go out to see clients or other business affairs... most

evenings I cook for the family... soups, curries, stews, meat loaf, chicken etc.

from various cuisines around the world, anything that fits with paleo/NT

principles, served mostly with starchy roots or veg. or salads.... very

occasionally I cook rice as I try to stay away from grains in general...

sometimes I make desserts from fruits sometimes GF cakes [posted some recipes

recently] sometimes a few pieces of Green & Black chocolate... not exactly low

carb and the rice and chocolate do send me mostly into a short carb-coma but

since this is in the evenings I just go with the flow and crash out on the sofa

[couch]

<<And also another question: did you suffer of a kind of brain-fog when

fatigued?

----- my description at the time was more like having cotton wool stuffed in my

skull where a brain should be.... I had bad vertigo, memory disappearing and

extreme fatigue, sharp pain in the middle of the chest [behind the sternum]

which was not food related or cyclical or anything but scared me ****less [no

heart problems, had it checked]... of course I was so weak I couldn't open a

small bottle of mineral water for myself [i used to be stronger than most men I

knew so that was quite a shock for my self image, LOL.]... even when I got

better, a 10 minutes drive would exhaust me enough to require several hours

sleep to recuperate.

the good news is that I'm very much OK now, memory all back, no pains, no

vertigo. tired yes but in the same way that any working mother/wife would be

AND back to being stronger than most men I know [yep, how shallow of me.]

hope this helps,

Dedy

October 19, 2003

Hi Dedy, thanks for your answer, I have just some more questions :-)

Rundle <Dpdg@...> wrote:

----- you betcha... I felt I had to compensate by way of making desserts from

cornflour with lots of maple syrup or sugar, rice puddings etc.. still, I just

kept getting better and the weight started dropping off too...

--------------sorry, I don't understand: what does it mean " you betcha " (my

english doesn't go so further :-). And I also don't understand if you ate the

desserts and rice puddings before or after you started the diet.