Sweeteners (was Re: Guilt, satiety, calorie restrictio...

[Guest guest]

I believe skinny people (who consume large amounts of calories) are

referred to as possessing a thrifty metabolism. I was also under the

impression that these people lived LESS long than they're more weighty

counterparts. This ties in with the whole Calorie Restriction deal. If

you're eating and eating and eating without gaining weight several

metabolic processes must be on overload.

-

>

> IF they are using lower BF as an indicator, it's not very accurate.

A lot of

> skinny folks that eat a lot have major health problems, not " thrifty

metabolisms " .

> (and others, of course, are in fact in good health! But you can't tell

> just by BF).

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

> >I forget where I heard this, but don't people with thrifty metabolisms

> >(and therefore lower bf) actually live less long? Have you heard

> >anything about this?

> >

> >-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/03 7:01:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

paultheo2000@... writes:

> I believe skinny people (who consume large amounts of calories) are

> referred to as possessing a thrifty metabolism. I was also under the

> impression that these people lived LESS long than they're more weighty

> counterparts. This ties in with the whole Calorie Restriction deal. If

> you're eating and eating and eating without gaining weight several

> metabolic processes must be on overload.

,

If this is true with humans, it apparently isn't with mice. The GM mice that

had low bodyfat ate significantly MORE calories of the same food than the

control mice, yet had similar life-lengthening benefits as calorie-restricted

mice. So that is a BIG point *against* calorie-restriction, assuming the

experiment can be replicated with similar results.

If you have any evidence slim people live a shorter life than heavy people,

I'd find this very surprising and would be interested to see it.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>You're right, I did a search and found 100% buckwheat noodles but we

>can't seem to get them here in Australia (was looking for them at

>the health food shop yesterday and they all contained wheat).

>Actually our friends brought 100% buckwheat flour when they came to

>visit from Japan and we made soba noodles together. But they used

>wheat flour on the board that it was rolled on. DH seems to think

>that's important to the rolling process. I'm sure other flours would

>be possible to use. We've still got a packet of the flour so I

>might give it a go!

You might try tapioca flour for rolling or thickening. It adds a lot of " thick "

to things and it's pretty cheap. Good in bread too.

>According to DH, buckwheat existed in Japan 2500 yrs ago, wheat came

>to Japan 800AD (1200-ish yrs ago). He says the most common

>buckwheat noodles are called Nihachisoba ( " two eight soba " ) which

>are 20% wheat, 80% buckwheat. Then what they call Inakasoba

>(countryside soba) have more buckwheat but still contain wheat.

Interesting. On the wheat-export sites they are crowing that Japan depends

mostly on wheat imports, and imports a lot of it (and growing). I'd expect

it was a lot like in Ireland and England ... wheat was there for a long time,

but a big part of the population didn't get it much, so the genes against

it didn't die out. My granddad loved bread (and his brother founded

a bakery) but he said when he was a kid it was kind of a rare treat. They

lived off oatmeal, tons of oatmeal. In Ireland the farmers lived off

potatoes, and the nobility got the grains.

>So I think they've been eating wheat in the form of noodles for a

>long time as have the Chinese. In Summer, people eat loads of cold

>somen or udon noodles made from white wheat flour. There are heaps

>and heaps of people with skin conditions there (including my DH),

>from dry itchy skin like him, to really bad eczema/dermatitis.

>Atopic Dermatitis (what they call " atopi " ) is much more common there

>than in the west, from my experience. I always thought it was the

>additives in the food or the dioxins from all the rubbish burning,

>but now I'm wondering if it's also a wheat reaction and possibly

>even dairy.

I've been noticing a lot of younger Koreans with horrid skin too, lately.

Not so much the older " first generation " Koreans. I do suspect it is

wheat or milk. Interestingly a study came out about acne and teenagers

that said statistically, acne was related to the amount of carbs the

kids ate (starches) not fats. Which of course brings up the whole issue

of is it regular carbs or wheat carbs?

There is also the question of amount of exposure. People who

are really sensitive get " sensitized " at some point -- kind of like

people can get stung by bees now and then, no problem, then

they get stung a LOT and suddenly one bee sting throws them

into shock. I expect that if wheat had only been a once a week

thing when I was little, and remained that way, I'd never be

so sensitized. Or maybe if it had ONLY been noodles with

dinner, and fermented ones at that, in a diet high in probiotics.

(good bacteria and enzymes disable the gliadin too). But

in a culture with 40% wheat intake I was doomed ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>I believe skinny people (who consume large amounts of calories) are

>referred to as possessing a thrifty metabolism.

But how is that logical? If your metabolism is " thrifty " then you would be using

very last dang calorie. If you eat a lot and don't get fat, then your metabolism

is cranked up (working overtime) or else you have malabsorption.

>I was also under the

>impression that these people lived LESS long than they're more weighty

>counterparts. This ties in with the whole Calorie Restriction deal. If

>you're eating and eating and eating without gaining weight several

>metabolic processes must be on overload.

Right. I agree. It's not necessarily a good sign for multiple reasons. I'm

unclear on the metabolic process part though. When you work out, your body " runs

faster " and in my case, I'm warm more and likely burning more calories. But

healthier. The feast/fast mice eat the same number of calories as their free-fed

counterparts, so I'd expect their metabolism is about the same (though they are

more active). Which makes me think the speed of the metabolism might not be the

issue -- maybe insulin usage, ability of the body to repair itself between

feedings, or something like that.

Obviously I'm speculating ... I WAS on a calorie restricted diet for a year and

a half, and I felt GREAT -- it was pretty high nutrient too. Probably not enough

fat, my skin got very dry. I did start getting cold all the time, and I lost

some muscle mass.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>> I don't think 100% buckwheat

noodles are possible (correct me if I'm wrong). <<

Yes, they are. When I was doing an allergy elimination trial on my allergic dog,

Raven, I found one brand (I believe it's Eden) that makes 100 percent buckwheat

soba noodles.

Christie