Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Heidi, I got some kefir grains from you awhile back and they were working wonderful. I was using raw milk and heating it to pasteurize it because everything I read said that the raw milk is harder on the grains? Maybe that's right, maybe not. Anyway it was working great. We moved August 15 and since then I've stored the grains in the refrigerator in milk, I didn't let it sit out long. I did that twice between Aug 15 and the end of September. Both times the kefir was runny and smelled pretty bad. I drained them and started with pasteurized, non-homogenized milk a few days ago, I let it sit for a few days and it's runny and smells bad, it was clumping slightly at the top. Did I ruin the grains? Maybe the raw milk works better than store bought? I have a raw milk source again, but I don't want to waste any on bad kefir grains. I have been putting about 1 quart of milk with the grains and until now they were thickening the kefir pretty quickly and it was sweet and wonderful. I am hoping I can salvage these grains. Michele in WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 i could be wrong. But ti thougth pasturised milk would kill kefir ( especially if you left it in the fridge with pasturised milk for ahwile ) as pastursied milk is dead and invariably goes off.. I use RAW milk only and every cpl of weeks i end up with a new baby grain tha gets bigger and bigger and bigger. _____ From: and Michele [mailto:ctr24845@...] Sent: Sunday, 12 October 2003 10:27 AM Subject: Kefir question for Heidi Heidi, I got some kefir grains from you awhile back and they were working wonderful. I was using raw milk and heating it to pasteurize it because everything I read said that the raw milk is harder on the grains? Maybe that's right, maybe not. Anyway it was working great. We moved August 15 and since then I've stored the grains in the refrigerator in milk, I didn't let it sit out long. I did that twice between Aug 15 and the end of September. Both times the kefir was runny and smelled pretty bad. I drained them and started with pasteurized, non-homogenized milk a few days ago, I let it sit for a few days and it's runny and smells bad, it was clumping slightly at the top. Did I ruin the grains? Maybe the raw milk works better than store bought? I have a raw milk source again, but I don't want to waste any on bad kefir grains. I have been putting about 1 quart of milk with the grains and until now they were thickening the kefir pretty quickly and it was sweet and wonderful. I am hoping I can salvage these grains. Michele in WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 That is helpful to know because I read that the raw milk would over power baby grains just starting out or something and I didn't want to kill them. Heidi says in her directions that she uses pasteurized so I don't think that alone would kill them. Hopefully I'll find out more from Heidi too. Thanks! Kefir question for Heidi Heidi, I got some kefir grains from you awhile back and they were working wonderful. I was using raw milk and heating it to pasteurize it because everything I read said that the raw milk is harder on the grains? Maybe that's right, maybe not. Anyway it was working great. We moved August 15 and since then I've stored the grains in the refrigerator in milk, I didn't let it sit out long. I did that twice between Aug 15 and the end of September. Both times the kefir was runny and smelled pretty bad. I drained them and started with pasteurized, non-homogenized milk a few days ago, I let it sit for a few days and it's runny and smells bad, it was clumping slightly at the top. Did I ruin the grains? Maybe the raw milk works better than store bought? I have a raw milk source again, but I don't want to waste any on bad kefir grains. I have been putting about 1 quart of milk with the grains and until now they were thickening the kefir pretty quickly and it was sweet and wonderful. I am hoping I can salvage these grains. Michele in WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 >Heidi, >I got some kefir grains from you awhile back and they were working wonderful. I was using raw milk and heating it to pasteurize it because everything I read said that the raw milk is harder on the grains? Maybe that's right, maybe not. Some people use raw, some not. There is the potential that a different strain of bacteria from raw milk can change the nature of the kefir -- that's how I got kefiili, because my kefir got contaminated! I don't have good access to raw milk so it is not something I've experimented with. But I'd be tempted to use more kefir in with the grains (I do anyway) just in case -- give the kefir a head start over any bacteria native to the milk. >Anyway it was working great. We moved August 15 and since then I've stored the grains in the refrigerator in milk, I didn't let it sit out long. I did that twice between Aug 15 and the end of September. Both times the kefir was runny and smelled pretty bad. I drained them and started with pasteurized, non-homogenized milk a few days ago, I let it sit for a few days and it's runny and smells bad, it was clumping slightly at the top. Did I ruin the grains? Maybe the raw milk works better than store bought? I have a raw milk source again, but I don't want to waste any on bad kefir grains. I have been putting about 1 quart of milk with the grains and until now they were thickening the kefir pretty quickly and it was sweet and wonderful. I am hoping I can salvage these grains. My experience is that the viili part of kefiili dies or goes dormant pretty easily, but that doesn't kill the kefir. " Real " kefir IS sour and thin. Mine went thin and sour a few times over the summer, probably from the heat and I thought they were done for. I set them out with the container in a pan of water, and only for a day (then stuck them back in the fridge) and they came back nicely. I think Finland is a cold place and viili just don't like heat! Also store bought non-organic milk IS bad for the grains -- not because of the pastuerization, but because of the antibiotics. I've used it a few times and the grains didn't grow and the kefiili lost a lot of it's nice creaminess. They also went bad when I left for a week ... I think they missed me, the folks here swear they did things just like I do. If they don't come back though, I'm happy to replace them! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 I only used organic milk the three times they've been out of raw milk. Should I try one more time with raw milk? Maybe put less milk and see if they bounce back? I really miss the thick gloppy stuff and I'm afraid to use the thin smelly kefir. Michele My experience is that the viili part of kefiili dies or goes dormant pretty easily, but that doesn't kill the kefir. " Real " kefir IS sour and thin. Mine went thin and sour a few times over the summer, probably from the heat and I thought they were done for. I set them out with the container in a pan of water, and only for a day (then stuck them back in the fridge) and they came back nicely. I think Finland is a cold place and viili just don't like heat! Also store bought non-organic milk IS bad for the grains -- not because of the pastuerization, but because of the antibiotics. I've used it a few times and the grains didn't grow and the kefiili lost a lot of it's nice creaminess. They also went bad when I left for a week ... I think they missed me, the folks here swear they did things just like I do. If they don't come back though, I'm happy to replace them! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 >I only used organic milk the three times they've been out of raw milk. Should I try one more time with raw milk? Maybe put less milk and see if they bounce back? I really miss the thick gloppy stuff and I'm afraid to use the thin smelly kefir. > >Michele Try using whatever milk you have, and place the kefir jar in a bucket of water while it ferments. If it doesn't come back, try adding some buttermilk to it. I'm happy to send more though, my grains are huge again. And ... keep some backups! Kefir can die for strange reasons. Having some backups in the fridge helps! And get a couple of local friends addicted. -- Heidi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ok, I will try one more time, but maybe I'll just have you send me a back up anyway. Mine seemed to grow so slow, but then again I was only making it about once a week or so. It was after we moved and I left it alone for a month and a half that it stopped working so well. I was always planning on making it more often and getting some back up grains, but I didn't get to that point before we moved. Michele Try using whatever milk you have, and place the kefir jar in a bucket of water while it ferments. If it doesn't come back, try adding some buttermilk to it. I'm happy to send more though, my grains are huge again. And ... keep some backups! Kefir can die for strange reasons. Having some backups in the fridge helps! And get a couple of local friends addicted. -- Heidi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 i dont know how much truth there is to this. But ive heard that putting kefir in water can diminish its qualities. and that it only became a recent practice. ( i just get spoon, dig the grain out of current batch and plonk it into new batch ) _____ From: and Michele [mailto:ctr24845@...] Sent: Monday, 13 October 2003 4:13 PM Subject: Re: Kefir question for Heidi Ok, I will try one more time, but maybe I'll just have you send me a back up anyway. Mine seemed to grow so slow, but then again I was only making it about once a week or so. It was after we moved and I left it alone for a month and a half that it stopped working so well. I was always planning on making it more often and getting some back up grains, but I didn't get to that point before we moved. Michele Try using whatever milk you have, and place the kefir jar in a bucket of water while it ferments. If it doesn't come back, try adding some buttermilk to it. I'm happy to send more though, my grains are huge again. And ... keep some backups! Kefir can die for strange reasons. Having some backups in the fridge helps! And get a couple of local friends addicted. -- Heidi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 >Ok, I will try one more time, but maybe I'll just have you send me a back up anyway. Mine seemed to grow so slow, but then again I was only making it about once a week or so. That might be the issue. Viili does NOT like being left alone (my original viili culture died when I ignored it. I make kefiili daily -- between the humans and chickens and jerky it goes fast. > It was after we moved and I left it alone for a month and a half that it stopped working so well. I was always planning on making it more often and getting some back up grains, but I didn't get to that point before we moved. Do you have any animals? You can just feed it some cheap milk and feed the animals with it, if you don't need so much kefiili yourself. Actually the chickens have gotten to the point they refuse to lay on " non kefir " days! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 oh heidi, how did you make your jerky from kefir ? im very willign to try this _____ From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...] Sent: Monday, 13 October 2003 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Kefir question for Heidi >Ok, I will try one more time, but maybe I'll just have you send me a back up anyway. Mine seemed to grow so slow, but then again I was only making it about once a week or so. That might be the issue. Viili does NOT like being left alone (my original viili culture died when I ignored it. I make kefiili daily -- between the humans and chickens and jerky it goes fast. > It was after we moved and I left it alone for a month and a half that it stopped working so well. I was always planning on making it more often and getting some back up grains, but I didn't get to that point before we moved. Do you have any animals? You can just feed it some cheap milk and feed the animals with it, if you don't need so much kefiili yourself. Actually the chickens have gotten to the point they refuse to lay on " non kefir " days! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 >>Actually the chickens have gotten to the point they refuse to lay on " non kefir " days!<< hah that gave me the biggest laugh of my day thanks _____ From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...] Sent: Monday, 13 October 2003 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Kefir question for Heidi >Ok, I will try one more time, but maybe I'll just have you send me a back up anyway. Mine seemed to grow so slow, but then again I was only making it about once a week or so. That might be the issue. Viili does NOT like being left alone (my original viili culture died when I ignored it. I make kefiili daily -- between the humans and chickens and jerky it goes fast. > It was after we moved and I left it alone for a month and a half that it stopped working so well. I was always planning on making it more often and getting some back up grains, but I didn't get to that point before we moved. Do you have any animals? You can just feed it some cheap milk and feed the animals with it, if you don't need so much kefiili yourself. Actually the chickens have gotten to the point they refuse to lay on " non kefir " days! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I used to make kefir with pasteurised non-organic cows milk. It was thick and rich and tasty. Switched to pasteurised non-organic goats milk and my kefir started going thinner. Also, the taste of the goats milk was very unpleasant. I have since switched to organic raw goats milk, and the taste of the milk is FAR superior (more like cows milk - I would happily put this is guest's tea and coffee and not tell them what it is!). It is very creamy too. Also, my kefir has gone really, really gloopy!! It has become very difficult to strain, and I'm not getting much out of the original qty of the milk because so much of the gloop is sticking to the grains! So, I have had the opposite problem to you, for some reason. I don't know what all that sticky gloopy stuff is that remains on the grains, but I believe it has a lot to do with the grains growing, so I feel the grains prefer raw milk. Jo --- and Michele <ctr24845@...> wrote: > I only used organic milk the three times they've > been out of raw milk. Should I try one more time > with raw milk? Maybe put less milk and see if they > bounce back? I really miss the thick gloppy stuff > and I'm afraid to use the thin smelly kefir. > ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Does anyone know of a U.S. source for kefir grains? Thanks -Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 >oh heidi, how did you make your jerky from kefir ? >im very willign to try this Look in the Files section. There is a complete instruction manual! -- Heidi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 very sweet. thankyou _____ From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...] Sent: Tuesday, 14 October 2003 2:44 PM Subject: RE: Kefir question for Heidi >oh heidi, how did you make your jerky from kefir ? >im very willign to try this Look in the Files section. There is a complete instruction manual! -- Heidi > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 In a message dated 10/12/03 1:52:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > Real " kefir IS sour and thin. Mine's usually thick and creamy, and I don't have any villi in it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 same i have no villi and in 24 hours its thick as. _____ From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...] Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Kefir question for Heidi In a message dated 10/12/03 1:52:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > Real " kefir IS sour and thin. Mine's usually thick and creamy, and I don't have any villi in it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 >Mine's usually thick and creamy, and I don't have any villi in it. > >Chris It seems to depend on the " brand " of certain bacteria. I suspect that raw milk kefir picks up some good thick strains sometimes, or it depends on the temp. The bacteria that makes kefiili thick is Leuconostoc Cremoris, and that exists in regular kefir too, and probably in much raw milk. The strain of LC makes all the difference! Even if you start out with regular kefir, you may pick up the thick LC from raw milk. Or you may start out with thick LC and get thin LC from a different strain. Also it depends on the temp, I think. When you are dealing with life forms, nothing is constant! -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 > Real " kefir IS sour and thin. >>>>Mine's usually thick and creamy, and I don't have any villi in it. ---->mine too. the only sour and thin kefir i've gotten is from goat's milk. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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