Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > >Quoting slethnobotanist@y...: > > > >> My suggestion is to up your mineral intake. > > > >Do you have any practical recommendations for how to do this? I've been > >trying, but it seems to be one of those things that's easier said than done. > > > >-- > > Berg > >bberg@c... @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ going on the only vaguely supported impression that earlier human diets were much more mineral-rich than current ones, due to soil fertility before agriculture, etc, and that cultures near glacial runoffs have some of the highest life spans, i've dwelled on this mineral issue a lot, so here are some of my current ideas: i agree with michael about using sea veggies, i have some everyday in some form. michael's point about wild meat having more minerals is interesting, and probably true for both wild animal and plant foods. i'm trying to move more in the direction of wild foods. bone stocks (not only the minerals themselves, but NT cites claim that gelatin improves absorption of minerals). and of course adding celery and stuff for the extra minerals. eating bone marrow? mineral-dense? seems likely. does anyone eat it fresh and raw? now that it's deer-hunting season, i can go to my local butcher and for an endless supply of deer bones that almost always get thrown away. that's free marrow up the wazoo. drinking teas/infusions/broths instead of plain water, getting a decent amount of minerals between meals with virtually no calories that way... i've also heard people claim that minerals are better absorbed on an empty stomach?? i don't know anything about this. i made a long post (#20646) about the whole " extra minerals through drinking " idea a while ago, but it didn't generate any interest. this is still a burning issue for me--so many unanswered questions. drinking whey. i drink at least a cup of whey everyday (love the flavor!) because it's low in calories but still has tons of calcium and tons of good bacteria and other goodies. much more mineral-dense than any other form of dairy. probably in the list of the top-five ultimate superfoods along with liver and whatever else. i drink kefir too with meals, so i'm still getting milkfat and everything in my diet. the whey is between meals. adding small fish or shrimp paste to fermented veggies, especially kimchi. big time calcium bonus, and protein bonus. eating small fish, shrimp, etc in any form. eating insects (i'm still working on the details, but i think many are loaded with minerals.) some insects are the land analogues of shrimp, crab, etc. i'm starting to conceptualize cricket stock and things. very promising avenue. looking for a good local source of wild termites... ********here's a biggie: growing a selection of core crucial greens in your own pots where you can optimize the soil fertility and have a fresh daily supply year-round. this is one of my key personal goals, still in the exploratory stages. low-oxalate greens that can be eaten in large quantities everyday, like kale, turnips greens, and coriander leaves, are my priorities, in addition to a large number of various herbs and things that can be eaten in small quantities, but add up to a significant mineral contribution. and we can forage for some valuable wild leaves on top of this. i like to munch on some fresh dandelion greens everyday except for the winter when they're not there. i think leaves are a crucial source of minerals, and there are a lot we can eat directly (with no small measure of gustatory profit i might add) in addition to letting animals eat them for us. and even when we are sadly driven to cook certain greens because of goitrogens, water-soluble oxalates, etc, we may be losing vitamins, but the copious minerals probably just become even more bioavailable. (and we can always eat raw animal organs for the vitamins...) seeds are packed with minerals. integrating a variety of seeds (sesame seeds, almonds, peanuts, lentils,...) really increases mineral-density a lot, and gives a wide variety of minerals, including trace minerals, etc. and even somewhat questionable seeds like cereal grains are great sources of magnesium and other minerals. i'm fascinated by the welsh diet Price describes in NAPD, with a small amount of super-nutrient-dense seafoods and the rest fermented oats. those oats, especially with their soil from the peat smoke or whatever, must have given a huge amount of minerals... these are just what i can think of off-hand. i'm very interested in this topic of increasing mineral intake through food. (of course, that's kind of like saying i'm very interested in health and happiness, it's so basic to life...) i hope other people have some other ideas to add to the list. mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Mike, All your suggestions are great! Especially getting deer bones from the processor. I hadn't thought of that one. Any using the whey another good idea. I would love to have this thread take on a life of it's own as the minerals have been one of the more confusing and critical parts of my healing process. I've have REALLY upped my mineral intake from as many sources as I could think of. I try to eat mineral rich foods i.e. dark greens, bone broths, seafood etc. This is easier said than done if you're working any type of intense job. (I teach high school and work about 50+ hours/week and can be fairly wiped when I get home) My intake of minerals from food sources just did not seem enough so I upped my supplements tremendously to see what would happen. I began using mezotrace, kelp, colloidal minerals, lots of Ca/Mg, biosil (for silica), plus a few other individual mineral supplements. I also use daily liver tonics with 1 oz liver in tomatoe juice. I worry that I may be overdoing it however my teeth seem to be telling me not yet! I use my arthritic ankle, the look and feel of my teeth, jaw TMJ, how tired I get, and skin breakouts as a guide. None of these are perfect as they are all somewhat subjective and dependent on how my hormones are functioning (pre- menopause). But I can really tell a difference before I began the intense mineral supplementation. I also came across a chart in Jordan Rubin's book showing the MG intake of one of he most healthy cultures W. Price studied. Their Mg intake was really, really high. I'm assuming therefore so was all their other minerals. I don't have it with me but it's worth looking up the info in his book or Price's. Don't remember which but I think it was one of the seafood eating cultures in the Pacific. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Mike Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if it's occurred to you that you might have the single most nutrient-dense diet in the entire country (er... if you live in the same one i do). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 In a message dated 10/9/03 6:54:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paultheo2000@... writes: > > > > Most CRON diets are very nutrient dense... What's CRON? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Mike, Wow, I guess you've certainly thought more about it than me! lol! Trust me, at least none of the hunters *I* know have as nutrient-dense a diet as yours. I don't know about vitamins, but increased density of minerals, at least many minerals, can be stored in the body, which would increase bone density. That seems to be the result of having more than necessary minerals-- bone tissue growth. Price seemed to be making that point when he excavated pre-Columbian American skeletons and found the skulls to be much thicker than post-Colubian, showing that they had new growth during adult life. I think you're right that compromises in nutrient density have their proper place for the sake of pleasure and whatnot; however, I believe these can be made with minimal impact on the overall nutrient density of the diet. For example, depending on what you consider a " nutrient, " I don't think the addition of honey decreases nutrient-density very much, because I would consider metabolic and digestive enzymes to be within the spectrum of " nutrient. " Are you sure raw onion is a net positive? Some people say there are sulfur compounds that need to be neutralized. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Sounds like it may not fit my idea of " nutrient-dense. " Do they at least include lots of shellfish or shrimp paste or liver or anything that actually is dense in fat-soluble vitamins? Chris In a message dated 10/9/03 7:59:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Idol@... writes: > Caloric Restriction with (so-called) Optimal Nutrition. Typically low-fat > AFAIK. > > >What's CRON? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 In a message dated 10/9/03 8:10:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bwp@... writes: > maybe about 1.5-2 hrs, including eating time. Does chatting on this list count as food-related time? LOL! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Most CRON diets are very nutrient dense... - > Mike > > Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if it's occurred to you that you might have > the single most nutrient-dense diet in the entire country (er... if you live in > the same one i do). > > Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@2 > Mike > > Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if it's occurred to you that you might have > the single most nutrient-dense diet in the entire country (er... if you live in > the same one i do). > > Chris @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ that can't possibly be true, because people who live in pristine coastal regions can forage for fresh sea animal foods, and i'm not one of those lucky people! further, people who eat lots of wild game would have an edge, and i'm not one of those smart people, although i plan to be before long. additionally, i haven't yet fully implemented my ideals of growing my own greens in pots, but when that's in place i should be pretty darn close to optimal nutrient-density. also, i buy seeds (lentils, almonds, peanuts, all the usual spice seeds) from indian shops and i have no way of knowing how good the soil is or anything. my diet is full of compromises like this, but i look forward to tweaking it over the years. i'm a bit of an extremist in many things, so the idea of optimal nutrient-density is my goal, and so maybe before too long i will achieve such a distinction (although i may be in another country at that point...). i do really truly enjoy my food, though, and often ecstatically, so it's not like some kind of spartan renunciation of pleasure. also, there is a huge point that i never see made explicit, but in my view is a deep implicit part of the NT philosophy (which mostly overlaps with my personal philosophy), and which i could render in motto form as " good food is good enough " . what i mean is that your body might only need a certain amount of nutrients to be as healthy as it could be with respect the processes that rely on those nutrients, and giving your body nutrients above and beyond that threshhold (if it exists--again, this is speculation; i'm not an expert in any of this) might be of no benefit. for example, what if you could figure out a way to get another .1 mg of B6 in your daily diet, but you already had plenty B6 and that .1 mg didn't make any difference? another aspect of this " good food is good enough " idea is that small compromises in nutrient-density might allow large gains in pleasure or convenience, and trying to co-optimize one's total lifestyle could be seen as a more worthy goal than optimal nutrition alone. i always think about the example of using onions in curries. eating indian food was what first triggered a passion for food in me several years ago, and that partly led to my interest in being healthy (odd thing to take an interest in, huh?), and i'm still reluctant to give up the pleasure of rich, complex, savory curries. however, i have cut down, and in some cases eliminated, the amount of onion i use in my soups/curries because i know that i can add the same amount of onion in raw form to a salad that will also be super delicious and not cooking the onion will increase the nutrient-density of my diet. a clearly focused dilemma. my current approach is to do the full-out mind-blowing onion-packed amazing curry thing on a less regular basis, especially when it confers a social advantage, without completely eliminating it, and coordinating it with the infrequent occasions when i cook meat, a very happy solution. i think these kinds of cyclical habits are common and healthy, and i've seen many examples posted on this list that fit the pattern. of course, quantity itself is not the goal, because as we well know for the case of minerals, increasing the density could actually harm your health if the minerals weren't in the right ratios to each other. i don't know whether ratios are also crucial with vitamins. actually, i guess concepts of proportion, and also variety (like in the case of antioxidants), are implicit in our intuitive concept of nutrient-density, and the concept could be easily redefined to achieve this, so this doesn't really require special comment. i like the metaphorical interpretation of the uncertainty about whether we live in the same country, but the literal one is not too exciting--i live in the Philadelphia area... mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Mike, Very interesting stuff. I'm curious to know how much time, would you estimate, do you spend with food-related actitivies per day? If you don't live to be 120...nobody will. - > > Mike > > > > Out of curiosity, I'm wondering if it's occurred to you that you > might have > > the single most nutrient-dense diet in the entire country (er... > if you live in > > the same one i do). > > > > Chris > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > that can't possibly be true, because people who live in pristine > coastal regions can forage for fresh sea animal foods, and i'm not > one of those lucky people! further, people who eat lots of wild > game would have an edge, and i'm not one of those smart people, > although i plan to be before long. additionally, i haven't yet > fully implemented my ideals of growing my own greens in pots, but > when that's in place i should be pretty darn close to optimal > nutrient-density. also, i buy seeds (lentils, almonds, peanuts, > all the usual spice seeds) from indian shops and i have no way of > knowing how good the soil is or anything. my diet is full of > compromises like this, but i look forward to tweaking it over the > years. > > i'm a bit of an extremist in many things, so the idea of optimal > nutrient-density is my goal, and so maybe before too long i will > achieve such a distinction (although i may be in another country at > that point...). i do really truly enjoy my food, though, and often > ecstatically, so it's not like some kind of spartan renunciation of > pleasure. also, there is a huge point that i never see made > explicit, but in my view is a deep implicit part of the NT > philosophy (which mostly overlaps with my personal philosophy), and > which i could render in motto form as " good food is good enough " . > what i mean is that your body might only need a certain amount of > nutrients to be as healthy as it could be with respect the processes > that rely on those nutrients, and giving your body nutrients above > and beyond that threshhold (if it exists--again, this is > speculation; i'm not an expert in any of this) might be of no > benefit. for example, what if you could figure out a way to get > another .1 mg of B6 in your daily diet, but you already had plenty > B6 and that .1 mg didn't make any difference? another aspect of > this " good food is good enough " idea is that small compromises in > nutrient-density might allow large gains in pleasure or convenience, > and trying to co-optimize one's total lifestyle could be seen as a > more worthy goal than optimal nutrition alone. i always think > about the example of using onions in curries. eating indian food > was what first triggered a passion for food in me several years ago, > and that partly led to my interest in being healthy (odd thing to > take an interest in, huh?), and i'm still reluctant to give up the > pleasure of rich, complex, savory curries. however, i have cut > down, and in some cases eliminated, the amount of onion i use in my > soups/curries because i know that i can add the same amount of onion > in raw form to a salad that will also be super delicious and not > cooking the onion will increase the nutrient-density of my diet. a > clearly focused dilemma. my current approach is to do the full-out > mind-blowing onion-packed amazing curry thing on a less regular > basis, especially when it confers a social advantage, without > completely eliminating it, and coordinating it with the infrequent > occasions when i cook meat, a very happy solution. i think these > kinds of cyclical habits are common and healthy, and i've seen many > examples posted on this list that fit the pattern. > > of course, quantity itself is not the goal, because as we well know > for the case of minerals, increasing the density could actually harm > your health if the minerals weren't in the right ratios to each > other. i don't know whether ratios are also crucial with > vitamins. actually, i guess concepts of proportion, and also > variety (like in the case of antioxidants), are implicit in our > intuitive concept of nutrient-density, and the concept could be > easily redefined to achieve this, so this doesn't really require > special comment. > > i like the metaphorical interpretation of the uncertainty about > whether we live in the same country, but the literal one is not too > exciting--i live in the Philadelphia area... > > mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Chris- Caloric Restriction with (so-called) Optimal Nutrition. Typically low-fat AFAIK. >What's CRON? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 > Mike, > > Very interesting stuff. I'm curious to know how much time, would you > estimate, do you spend with food-related actitivies per day? maybe about 1.5-2 hrs, including eating time. it's mainly tending the sprouts (about 15 minutes), feeding the kefir grains (about 1 minute), reheating the soup, making a huge pot of tea/broth/whatever (3 minutes), chopping the veggies and meat, and washing dishes. but then there is the non-daily projects like making stock and soup every few weeks (not too time-consuming actually, maybe averaging out to less than 5 minutes per day), and making fermented veggies, which is still such an experimental, irregular thing for me i don't have any sense of the time involved. i'm planning to set aside an entire day for making sauerkraut, kimchi, etc for the next year at the end of cabbage season this fall, and then bury some underground for next spring and summer. also, once a week i go to my local farms for food, and that winds up being a good hour or two, depending on how much i chat and walk around in the field picking my plant foods. of course, in the winter this is much quicker, just a 1/2 hr trip altogether to get milk and eggs, and possibly meat/bones. i only go to food stores (never american supermarkets, only ethnic shops) about once every month or two these days, but there's also a run to a seafood shop for oysters every other week, which is very quick. sometime i will get more analytical and measure and record everything... mike parker mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 > In a message dated 10/9/03 6:54:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > paultheo2000@y... writes: > > > > > > > > > Most CRON diets are very nutrient dense... > > What's CRON? > > Chris that's jargon in the calorie-restriction world from Roy Walford. it's " calorie restriction with optimal nutrition " . there is also CRAN, an older acronym which some people still prefer for theoretical reasons, and it's " calorie restriction with adequate nutrition " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Chris: For > example, depending on what you consider a " nutrient, " I don't think the addition of > honey decreases nutrient-density very much, because I would consider metabolic > and digestive enzymes to be within the spectrum of " nutrient. " @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ oh yeah, definitely. and the thousands of mystery chemicals like antioxidants that we are only beginning to explore... @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Are you sure raw onion is a net positive? Some people say there are sulfur > compounds that need to be neutralized. > > Chris @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ oh geez! i don't want to even think about this! mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Sounds like it may not fit my idea of " nutrient-dense. " Do they at least > include lots of shellfish or shrimp paste or liver or anything that actually is > dense in fat-soluble vitamins? > > Chris > > In a message dated 10/9/03 7:59:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Idol@c... writes: > > > Caloric Restriction with (so-called) Optimal Nutrition. Typically low-fat > > AFAIK. > > > > >What's CRON? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ there is no " they " in a useful sense, but i'm one of " them " and i get plenty of D and A... it's not a unified cohort in any way. there is a different version of " optimal nutrition " in every person's mind, and this is totally independent of CR. CR is quantity. ON is content, and we all know the variety of views on what's healthy... it's a common error to assume that CRON refers to a specific diet, such as Walford's (which is just very broad guidelines like NT, not really specific). you'll find everything from vegans to raw-meat aficionados, and everything from Ornish to Atkins, in the CR world. mike parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 CRON is usually more vegetrian based, lots of green, cooked beans & lentils, seeds, nuts and so forth r Anton wrote: > >that's jargon in the calorie-restriction world from Roy Walford. >it's " calorie restriction with optimal nutrition " . there is also >CRAN, an older acronym which some people still prefer for >theoretical reasons, and it's " calorie restriction with adequate >nutrition " . --------------------------------------------- Yound Living Essential Oils and more. http://my.youngliving.com/starwulf/ ---- Kill the Ego, Lose your Mind, Use your Brain! -richard aka: StarWulf & k(no)w one http://www.geocities.com/i_starwulf/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 - Since most of them tend to be low-fat and grain- or legume-based, that's simply not true. That's not to say CRON diets _can't_ be nutrient-dense, or that some aren't, just that the tendency is in the wrong direction. >Most CRON diets are very nutrient dense... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:00:08 -0000 " Anton " <bwp@...> wrote: >i agree with michael about using sea veggies, i have some everyday in >some form. > Mike, I actually started eating them again because of your posts awhile back. Just as Heidi's posts awhile back finally got me to include some fermented veggies in my diet on a regular basis. Both practices were something I did years ago but for some strange reason I got away from. There is no doubt in my mind, given the variable nature of soil fertility, that seafood, both animal and vegetable, is the most important source of minerals we have today. >michael's point about wild meat having more minerals is interesting, >and probably true for both wild animal and plant foods. i'm trying >to move more in the direction of wild foods. I love wild foods. Good to make friends with hunters and foragers who know their way around. > >bone stocks (not only the minerals themselves, but NT cites claim >that gelatin improves absorption of minerals). and of course adding >celery and stuff for the extra minerals. Good point. I have a new goal to start drinking bone broths on a regular basis as a part of the undereating phase of the Warrior Diet. I'm also going to experiment with juicing lacto-fermented veggies since the anti-nutrients will have been taken care of and many wonderful goodies now a part of the fermented beverage. Add to that some coconut water and whey and it should be interesting experiment. I will also be using raw honey a little as I noticed from a couple of studies it seems not to have much of an effect on insulin. Also some herb teas high in vitamins and minerals and with some thermogenic effects as well. > >eating bone marrow? mineral-dense? seems likely. does anyone eat >it fresh and raw? I agree. Excellent point. I have it fresh and raw and I like it. How about eating some of the bones themselves or drying them like some of the Indians did and grinding them into a powder. Sounds like an excellent way to upgrade mineral intake. now that it's deer-hunting season, i can go to my >local butcher and for an endless supply of deer bones that almost >always get thrown away. that's free marrow up the wazoo. > >drinking teas/infusions/broths instead of plain water, getting a >decent amount of minerals between meals with virtually no calories >that way... i've also heard people claim that minerals are better >absorbed on an empty stomach?? i don't know anything about this. i >made a long post (#20646) about the whole " extra minerals through >drinking " idea a while ago, but it didn't generate any interest. >this is still a burning issue for me--so many unanswered questions. Ori, the author of the WD, believes that all nutrient uptake efficiency is increased on an empty stomach, and he specifically mentions minerals. > >drinking whey. i drink at least a cup of whey everyday (love the >flavor!) because it's low in calories but still has tons of calcium >and tons of good bacteria and other goodies. much more mineral-dense >than any other form of dairy. probably in the list of the top-five >ultimate superfoods along with liver and whatever else. i drink >kefir too with meals, so i'm still getting milkfat and everything in >my diet. the whey is between meals. > >adding small fish or shrimp paste to fermented veggies, especially >kimchi. big time calcium bonus, and protein bonus. eating small >fish, shrimp, etc in any form. Another great point <snip> > >********here's a biggie: growing a selection of core crucial greens >in your own pots where you can optimize the soil fertility and have a >fresh daily supply year-round. this is one of my key personal >goals, still in the exploratory stages. low-oxalate greens that can >be eaten in large quantities everyday, like kale, turnips greens, and >coriander leaves, are my priorities, in addition to a large number of >various herbs and things that can be eaten in small quantities, but >add up to a significant mineral contribution. and we can forage for >some valuable wild leaves on top of this. i like to munch on some >fresh dandelion greens everyday except for the winter when they're >not there. i think leaves are a crucial source of minerals, and >there are a lot we can eat directly (with no small measure of >gustatory profit i might add) in addition to letting animals eat them >for us. and even when we are sadly driven to cook certain greens >because of goitrogens, water-soluble oxalates, etc, we may be losing >vitamins, but the copious minerals probably just become even more >bioavailable. (and we can always eat raw animal organs for the >vitamins...) I think this is a good long term goal for most of us. Of course then we have to take the time to learn what constitutes true soil fertility and how to achieve it. I have been lurking for awhile a several groups where that is the goal and it is quite interesting. > >seeds are packed with minerals. integrating a variety of seeds >(sesame seeds, almonds, peanuts, lentils,...) really increases >mineral-density a lot, and gives a wide variety of minerals, >including trace minerals, etc. and even somewhat questionable seeds >like cereal grains are great sources of magnesium and other >minerals. i'm fascinated by the welsh diet Price describes in NAPD, >with a small amount of super-nutrient-dense seafoods and the rest >fermented oats. those oats, especially with their soil from the peat >smoke or whatever, must have given a huge amount of minerals... Yup, I think you are right on here. The People vs. Rush Limbaugh http://tinyurl.com/qon2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:35:31 -0000 " Anton " <bwp@...> wrote: >i like the metaphorical interpretation of the uncertainty about >whether we live in the same country, but the literal one is not too >exciting--i live in the Philadelphia area... > >mike parker LOL!! As a former east coaster who just loves the west coast, I had to giggle (okay a loud belly aching laugh) <G> The People vs. Rush Limbaugh http://tinyurl.com/qon2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 slethnobotanist@y... wrote: > I'm also > going to experiment with juicing lacto-fermented veggies since the > anti-nutrients will have been taken care of and many wonderful goodies > now a part of the fermented beverage. > > Add to that some coconut water and whey and it should be interesting > experiment. I will also be using raw honey a little as I noticed from a > couple of studies it seems not to have much of an effect on insulin. > Also some herb teas high in vitamins and minerals and with some > thermogenic effects as well. > I juice every morning and have been thinking lately of juicing at night instead then adding kefir whey and culturing it overnight. I have a slow masticating juicer that supposedly does not destroy enzymes. Any feedback on this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 , > I think this is a good long term goal for most of us. Of course >then we have to take the time to learn what constitutes true soil >fertility and how to achieve it. I have been lurking for awhile a >several groups where that is the goal and it is quite interesting. > What are the names of these groups? Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:38:48 -0000 " kili94 " <lm324@...> wrote: >, > >> I think this is a good long term goal for most of us. Of course >>then we have to take the time to learn what constitutes true soil >>fertility and how to achieve it. I have been lurking for awhile a >>several groups where that is the goal and it is quite interesting. >> > >What are the names of these groups? > >Thanks, > , brixtalk and the other one slips my mind at the moment because I only read the archives of that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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